Afghanistan

[Sharpie]

2 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Ok, a couple of points here:

 

Bayonet  fighting is still taught in the army as more of a way of reactively defending yourself and not so much as proactively attacking a position.  Like you’ve been over run or your out of ammunition.  I’ve never fired a rifle with a bayonet fitted as the bayonet attachment had a serious effect on the ballistic trajectory of a live round being fired….I.e. you’ll miss.

Maybe my comment about attrition was lost in translation.  Attrition is the ultimate end game, smash them so they don’t smash you but a solider needs to look at their survivability at the end of that skirmish, there’s a lot of married soldiers out there who really do want to go home.  My point is the logistics/economic value involved in reaching that end game has changed…..there is no real “charge” mentality these days.  Like I said, 300 men attacking a machine gun with only 250 bullets, the attacking force will win yes? But at what cost.  Infantry tactics will dictate that a flank (left/right) will greatly decrease the attackers losses and that is currently what is taught.  We seriously try to cut down the odds now.  

Unfortunately every defence secretary sees that as a reason to cut back…cut back….cut back….which will fail at some point.  I commanded an anti tank platoon in Bosnia where we had 11 warrior infantry fighting vehicles, in the back of each vehicle we should have had 2 anti tank teams of 2 armed both teams armed with a Milan guided missile systems..quite often there was no one in the back but we were bluffing the Serbs….it seemed to work.  
Remember we had cruise liners taking our troops to the falklands.  

I’m very pro military but not in a gung  ho way, I’ve put in more water wells in Africa than I’ve fired shots in anger but, I fear for where we are heading. 

 

I clearly remember the media build up to the first Iraq war where we were facing around a kilometre of Iraq defences, barbed wire, trenches filled with oil , mine fields, the elite republican guard, etc..etc… the media were whipping the public into a frenzy with graphic pictures of the Iraq forces front line.  Of course families were getting worried so, Our commanding officer got us together and said “don’t worry about all that shit, we’ll go around it” which we did 😊.  Didn’t loose a single soldier to Iraq forces, the Americans killed more of my battalion that the republican guard did cos they couldn’t identify a British warrior from a soviet T55.
 

There is (or was when I was serving) a 300% attack balance in your favour I.e. you identify an enemy position of 8 soldiers, you attack it with 24…..of course there are many actual probabilities of this not being possible.

Our army is getting smaller because suits have the notion that technology will win the day for us…………..I fear naught.

 

I think there are two things I don't think we disagree really we are from different eras I suspect. I also although very proud of my Regiment do admit we are a wee bit different in a number of ways, we quite right ly in my day thought we were the , best in some ways not always complimentary we were because in training as described by visiting Canadian Army officers that we were put through what to them was a hell on earth, and as result were told we were the best.

Life has changed and thank god more importance has been put on life why expose men when you can get a weapon to do what would take volumes of men to achieve with many casualties. I have no scruples about saying no to involvement in Afghanistan, they remind me of many wives in my house row attending days, call the police to control their violent husband and any suggestion of leaving him wailed at its horror, same thing for the Afghans they suggest displeasure about invaders and Taliban types, but neither want to leave or fight them.

In parting just let me say as they do here in Canada a sincere "Thank you for your service." 

[3fingersreid]

8 hours ago, Sharpie said:

 

I seem to recall at the Guards Training Battalion we were taught bayonet fighting and spent hours charging supposed enemy positions shouting and screaming and ripping the pure shite out of dummies with the intent of killing every enemy we had advanced against. You must have been trained some time later than I, it seems to me attrition of the enemy was the goal. WW.1 was the end of the old system of war trenches and major attacks. My father was in the trenches in France as an eighteen year old conscript, because he was an athlete he was given the job of a runner, I have read the job with the highest mortality rate of a selected job such as that. Of course there were major infantry attacks, the trenches gave considerable protection for artillery, so the alternative was to charge in large number into enemy lines. Yes many died that's war, attrition is just a fancy word for death. Whatever the tactics worked because we won the war.

I am not sure I understand your comment about teaching soldiers to think about something more than attrition, surely that is what the infantryman and the artillery man are thinking, kill them all until there are none left. I was never in that kind of action but well knew that if I was my job as a Corporal section commander and as a platoon leading sergeant to use their weapons to kill the enemy on contact, and god bless us all the young men on the other side would have been taught the same thing. just like ourselves had similar intent. Possibly changed days. Possibly it was the Guards and their training but  I never really had an ideology, part of our training was the removal of all thoughts other than what they instilled at Caterham particularly. Hours of Regimental history, the belief that you were one of the best, and your duty, your duty was top of the scale to be carried out regardless, and your duty was to fight and die, but you knew that wan't going to happen because you were part of one of the best. Worse than death would have been to shirk any part of your duty because in doing so you would have denied your comrades. But that was 1952/55 way back in the old days.

Bayonet use , the only part of the Scots Guards training my dad said he had doubts about being able to do when in action , he caught the tail end of WW2. 

I think the last charge used by any regiment of the British Armed forces was at Tumbledown mountain in the Falkland isles , done by the afore mentioned Scots Guards .

[Ibrahim Tall]

15 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

That won’t work.  

Speaking with experience of training foreign soldiers (I was a Warrant Officer training advisor in Sierra Leone for a year) the Afghan military will have received a multitude of battle lessons (teaching a new skill) and, battle exercises (testing this new skill)over the period of years.  These skills are learned by the British army at the infantry battle school in Brecon, Wales to infantry corporals and above.  As well at this bread and butter course, there will have been many many leadership skills courses delivered as a training package by the various British units serving over there over the course of the time we’ve been there (I cannot vouch for what other countries delivered).  My educated and informed guess is the Afghan military leadership lacked the will to carry out the skills they were trained to do which quickly lead to dissent in the ranks and, the quick collapse of Afghan forces.
 

Of course there is an argument that we left to quickly and their bottle crashed……..a question I cannot answer and should be asked of a politician.

 

Dvd’s videos would not suffice…..firstly I’d imaging they don’t have the resources or logistics in place to deliver this and secondly (most importantly), I’d be careful of delivering false hope and expectation to people who may by and large think that watching a video of a British infantry section conducting a mock attack would somehow make them competent in this skill…..they may actually believe that and run straight to their deaths.

 

As mentioned earlier, battle lessons followed by battle exercise is the way it should be (and probably was) done.

Tbh the Afghan military(on a huge scale) was trained educated and armed by the Soviets even in Russia itself for a decades prior to the Soviet ‘invasion’  when things were friendly and it still collapsed like a house of cards at the first sign of a domestic conflict. 
Nato trying to do the same with a drastically smaller number and a more hostile situation was always a hopeless task. 

[John Findlay]

2 hours ago, 3fingersreid said:

Bayonet use , the only part of the Scots Guards training my dad said he had doubts about being able to do when in action , he caught the tail end of WW2. 

I think the last charge used by any regiment of the British Armed forces was at Tumbledown mountain in the Falkland isles , done by the afore mentioned Scots Guards .

Indeed it was.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

10 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Ok, a couple of points here:

 

Bayonet  fighting is still taught in the army as more of a way of reactively defending yourself and not so much as proactively attacking a position.  Like you’ve been over run or your out of ammunition.  I’ve never fired a rifle with a bayonet fitted as the bayonet attachment had a serious effect on the ballistic trajectory of a live round being fired….I.e. you’ll miss.

Maybe my comment about attrition was lost in translation.  Attrition is the ultimate end game, smash them so they don’t smash you but a solider needs to look at their survivability at the end of that skirmish, there’s a lot of married soldiers out there who really do want to go home.  My point is the logistics/economic value involved in reaching that end game has changed…..there is no real “charge” mentality these days.  Like I said, 300 men attacking a machine gun with only 250 bullets, the attacking force will win yes? But at what cost.  Infantry tactics will dictate that a flank (left/right) will greatly decrease the attackers losses and that is currently what is taught.  We seriously try to cut down the odds now.  

Unfortunately every defence secretary sees that as a reason to cut back…cut back….cut back….which will fail at some point.  I commanded an anti tank platoon in Bosnia where we had 11 warrior infantry fighting vehicles, in the back of each vehicle we should have had 2 anti tank teams of 2 armed both teams armed with a Milan guided missile systems..quite often there was no one in the back but we were bluffing the Serbs….it seemed to work.  
Remember we had cruise liners taking our troops to the falklands.  

I’m very pro military but not in a gung  ho way, I’ve put in more water wells in Africa than I’ve fired shots in anger but, I fear for where we are heading. 

 

I clearly remember the media build up to the first Iraq war where we were facing around a kilometre of Iraq defences, barbed wire, trenches filled with oil , mine fields, the elite republican guard, etc..etc… the media were whipping the public into a frenzy with graphic pictures of the Iraq forces front line.  Of course families were getting worried so, Our commanding officer got us together and said “don’t worry about all that shit, we’ll go around it” which we did 😊.  Didn’t loose a single soldier to Iraq forces, the Americans killed more of my battalion that the republican guard did cos they couldn’t identify a British warrior from a soviet T55.
 

There is (or was when I was serving) a 300% attack balance in your favour I.e. you identify an enemy position of 8 soldiers, you attack it with 24…..of course there are many actual probabilities of this not being possible.

Our army is getting smaller because suits have the notion that technology will win the day for us…………..I fear naught.

 

I don't know if this is true tbh, as it came from one of Mrs JJ's cousins who is prone to the odd exageration from time to time.

He was in the Royal Scots in the first Gulf war, and he said that after the Iraqi trenches had been blasted to hell, somebody still had to go in and mop up any survivors, trench clearance unit he said, fixed bayonets and on a few occasions it was close combat.

 

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I don't think the situation is as bad as some make out. I have yet to see anyone change their facebook profile pic or any hashtag crusades as yet for the people about to be executed.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

19 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

  I thought this was a private message and didn't knowitbwas going to the forum can it be removed.

PM the administrator.

[Sharpie]

4 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

PM the administrator.

Just did. Sometimes wrong turns become the usual instead of the abstract.

[The Real Maroonblood]

26 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

Just did. Sometimes wrong turns become the usual instead of the abstract.

👍

[Four faces]

For anyone looking for the historical dynamics of the country,go watch Black Lake on BBC i player.While i don't agree with all the detail,it does open your eyes to what's going on now.

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, Four faces said:

For anyone looking for the historical dynamics of the country,go watch Black Lake on BBC i player.While i don't agree with all the detail,it does open your eyes to what's going on now.

Thanks for that.

[Four faces]

1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Thanks for that.

No probs.The country has been used and abused by so many.Tragic for the people who just want to live in peace and heartbreaking for the children.A political buffer zone.

[highlandjambo3]

3 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I don't know if this is true tbh, as it came from one of Mrs JJ's cousins who is prone to the odd exageration from time to time.

He was in the Royal Scots in the first Gulf war, and he said that after the Iraqi trenches had been blasted to hell, somebody still had to go in and mop up any survivors, trench clearance unit he said, fixed bayonets and on a few occasions it was close combat.

 

 

We didn’t take them head on…..that’s what they were expecting.  British forces first armour on the scene was these fellas:

 

Armoured engineer mine clearance……very handy for filling in enemy trenches (manned or empty) in one pass…….punch through the defences then allow the rest of the armour to pour through……it turned out the elite 😂😂😂 republican guard were not so elite after all.

[highlandjambo3]

3 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I don't know if this is true tbh, as it came from one of Mrs JJ's cousins who is prone to the odd exageration from time to time.

He was in the Royal Scots in the first Gulf war, and he said that after the Iraqi trenches had been blasted to hell, somebody still had to go in and mop up any survivors, trench clearance unit he said, fixed bayonets and on a few occasions it was close combat.

 

 

Forgot to say…..yes there was a degree of mopping up but, it turned out mostly to be the enemy surrendering.  There were generally 3 groups or categories of enemy….

1.  The dead…..no further issue.

 

2.  The ones that surrendered en mass……a massive logistical issue with food, water, shelter, segregation and intelligence gathering, so much so that our army sent in a full brigade (not armoured) to specifically deal with POW’s.

 

3.  The ones that ran away.  These were still to be considered in the equation as they could be re grouped, re armed and back in the fight.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

27 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Forgot to say…..yes there was a degree of mopping up but, it turned out mostly to be the enemy surrendering.  There were generally 3 groups or categories of enemy….

1.  The dead…..no further issue.

 

2.  The ones that surrendered en mass……a massive logistical issue with food, water, shelter, segregation and intelligence gathering, so much so that our army sent in a full brigade (not armoured) to specifically deal with POW’s.

 

3.  The ones that ran away.  These were still to be considered in the equation as they could be re grouped, re armed and back in the fight.

 

He did mention the POW's, that at times there were so many of them and we couldn't spare the frontline troops to look after them, that they were basically told to keep walking that way and another unit would pick them up at some point.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

The UK has evacuated 11,500 people from Kabul since the operation began, including 1,200 in the last 12 hrs alone.

The US has uplifted more than 88,000.

These are amazing numbers, just in the last couple of weeks.

 

Disturbing news that an attack is highly likely and could happen at any moment from ISIS-K the Afghanistan branch of ISIS.

I guess there has to be some intel about this.

[maroonlegions]

There is a reason why the Yankies / Bidden pulled out.

 

And i bet you it aint about lifes of American or UK soldiers lifes. 

 

Its certainty not about Afghan  civilians lifes, who are now left to the mercy of this satanic and insidious RELIGIOUS  cult of cut throat women hating RELIGION.  

 

 Follow the money trail.. All roads lead to the US... 

 

No disrespect  intended to all those US and UK military personnel who lost their lifes and the families effected . 

 

Outwith politics, RELIGIOUS extremities   and religion in general has been the cause of utter evil in this world. 

 

Man made religions ARE the ROOT  and cause of the  utter insidious MURDER through out human history, from the Christian HOLY WAR crusades in the  MIDDLE Ages to the past and POSSIBLE resurgence of  conflicts in Ireland , and also  the insidious WITCH HUNTS BY so called CHRISTIANS  was about repressing NATURE and the hidden gems of her healing and FORGIVEN nature.

 

 

 

Rant over..

 

There is always as song from the punk archive  i may add. 

 

 

 

 

Lyrics.

 

 

You gotta look into all of it
This is called, "Holy War"

 

Ho-holy War
Ho-holy War

 

A Roman is invading Britain after hundreds of years
With a pope star's world tour amidst fanatical tears
False prophet, the Bible warns us, is wearing a crown
Deceiving and uniting churches, burn the whole world down

 

Ho-holy War
Ho-holy War

 

Anti-soviet Polish priest was just the image they need
Seize control of the Catholic church for Bolshevik creed
They replaced him with an actor, set the stage for war
Pope John Paul II was poisoned behind Vatican doors

 

Ho-holy War
Ho-holy War

 

Inquisition, crusades, martyrs burned for blasphemy
Religion causes most of the wars throughout history
Divine combat, revolution, the actor pope fraud
Greed and murder is forgiven when in the name of god

 

Ho-holy War
Ho-holy War

Ho-holy War
Ho-holy War

Holy War

 

Alright, live from WLIR, Lords of the New Church

Think you might know some of these people
From London, on bass guitar
From Sham 69, Dave Tregunna
Also from London, on drums
From the Barricudas, Nicky Turner
From the Damned, Brian James

[Ulysses]

Dominic Raab wasn't paddleboarding when Kabul fell. 

 

‘The sea was closed’: UK Foreign Secretary Raab denies paddleboarding while Kabul fell

 

****ing EU screwing things up again.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

31 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Dominic Raab wasn't paddleboarding when Kabul fell. 

 

‘The sea was closed’: UK Foreign Secretary Raab denies paddleboarding while Kabul fell

 

****ing EU screwing things up again.

 

Seen him live on Sky News this morning, had to laugh when he came out with that, it was a red flag the sea was closed.

 

Aye, ok Dom.

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Seen him live on Sky News this morning, had to laugh when he came out with that, it was a red flag the sea was closed.

 

Aye, ok Dom.

 

 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

On 24/08/2021 at 23:26, JackLadd said:

I can't see Biden leaving on the 31st without every American accounted for whatever he is saying outwardly. 

 

Well in the words of his previous boss, ”Never underestimate Joe’s ability to screw things up.”

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Breaking News.

 

Reports of an explosion & possibly gunfire outside of Kabul airport.

 

No word on casulties as yet.

 

[Mikey1874]

They didn't do the bomb, but the Americans are responsible for this. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Suicide bomber blew himself up in one of the canals similar to the one Sky News had reported from the other day.

American soldiers have reportedly been injured, however going by the footage shown on Sky News the other day there were hundreds of people crammed into this one small area, if it's in one of those area's then there could be a hell of a lot of casulties.

 

This could be the end of the evacuation.

[Mikey1874]

As ever idiot terrorists kill ordinary people. 

[Ray Gin]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/explosion-confirmed-kabul-airport-pentagon-thousands-try-to-flee-135606814.html

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Turkish military officials reporting that there was two seperate explosions, presumably two suicide bombers.

 

Edit: Initial reports say 13 people have been killed, I'd expect that number to rise as more becomes known.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Jambo-Jimbo

[Pap]

Orchastrated by the Taliban. Absolutely no doubt. Not some splinter ISIS group.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

Inevitable.

 

There's a fair chance things could get really ugly really quickly over there. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Sky News correspondent saying that he's heard unconfirmed reports that American soldiers have been killed.

Comfirmed now that there was two explosions, both in the area that British troops were/had been operating in just yesterday, still unknown if there are any British casulties.

[Herbert.]

Isis K is that the terrorist group that has lots of fibre?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

18 minutes ago, Pap said:

Orchastrated by the Taliban. Absolutely no doubt. Not some splinter ISIS group.

 

 

Reports of casulties amongst the Taliban guards at the check point at the Abbey Gate entrance of the airport.

 

This is ISIS 100%.

[Jeffros Furios]

Rather disturbing video footage of aftermath .

As expected lots of bodies and blood  

[Stu_HMFC]

5 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Rather disturbing video footage of aftermath .

As expected lots of bodies and blood  

I'm not wanting to see it. 

 

Feel so sorry for the innocent. 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Definitely more than 13 killed. Hard to put into words how awful a situation this has been allowed to become. Just terrible.

[The Real Maroonblood]

6 minutes ago, LMc said:

Definitely more than 13 killed. Hard to put into words how awful a situation this has been allowed to become. Just terrible.

The Yanks and the UK should be ashamed of themselves.

[Governor Tarkin]

Evil is an entirely human construct, and those *******s are entirely evil.

 

What brings a person to wantonly commit such crimes against their brothers and sisters?

 

Allahu akbar, indeed.

 

😢

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

Evil is an entirely human construct, and those *******s are entirely evil.

 

What brings a person to wantonly commit such crimes against their brothers and sisters?

 

Allahu akbar, indeed.

 

😢

 

Warped religious ideology.

 

People can blame the US & the UK all they like, but for me this is religion and a warped belief in their religion.

If this is ISIS-K then it's the same group who attacked the maternity hospital in Kabul last year, killing pregnant women & new born babies indiscriminately, some 40 died in that attack.

[Armageddon]

Would this situation have happened under Trump?

Is Biden seeing out Trumps decisions/promises?

 

I've not followed the back story of this so no idea how all this has come about.

[Mikey1874]

24 minutes ago, Armageddon said:

Would this situation have happened under Trump?

Is Biden seeing out Trumps decisions/promises?

 

I've not followed the back story of this so no idea how all this has come about.

 

Yes

 

Trump's lot negotiated this deal that commits the US to leave with Taliban allowing the evacuation. 

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, LMc said:

Definitely more than 13 killed. 

 

Going by the video I just saw, you are right. A lot more. Absolutely horrific. 

[dobmisterdobster]

1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

The Yanks and the UK should be ashamed of themselves.

 

How is it our fault? Our hands were tied by the US withdrawal. NATO is a sham.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

As ever idiot terrorists kill ordinary people. 

That’s what they do ? Cause terror 

49 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Warped religious ideology.

 

People can blame the US & the UK all they like, but for me this is religion and a warped belief in their religion.

If this is ISIS-K then it's the same group who attacked the maternity hospital in Kabul last year, killing pregnant women & new born babies indiscriminately, some 40 died in that attack.

Yes religion really has a lot to answer to . Any religion , why look at the mess across the Irish Sea for decades 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Inevitable.

 

There's a fair chance things could get really ugly really quickly over there. 

 

It's been really ugly over there since before any of us were born.

 

54 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

People can blame the US & the UK all they like, but for me this is religion and a warped belief in their religion.

 

 

Correct. It's a totalitarian death cult, plain and simple. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

How is it our fault? Our hands were tied by the US withdrawal. NATO is a sham.

They’ve known for months this was going to happen.

Also with all the intelligence that they have it’s an absolute sham.

“We’re surprised it happened so quickly.”

That’s laughable.

[JudyJudyJudy]

It’s a mess 

Edited August 26, 2021 by JamesM48

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Get British troops out . Simple as that , enough is enough . It may sound harsh but it’s been a shit fest in that country for decades. British War mongers on bbc news desperate to get troops to stay there . Quelle surprise . 

 

Ah.  Sharing your idiocy over multiple threads now?  It's only fair I suppose.

[ri Alban]

20 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

That’s what they do ? Cause terror 

Yes religion really has a lot to answer to . Any religion , why look at the mess across the Irish Sea for decades 

Sorry James, Religion is not to blame. Evil people are, bud . 

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, Pap said:

Orchastrated by the Taliban. Absolutely no doubt. Not some splinter ISIS group.

 

No.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Ah.  Sharing your idiocy over multiple threads now?  It's only fair I suppose.

“ idiocy “ = honesty . You should try that some time you absolute condescending , patronising , arrogant , abrasive  person .