Pyramid Leagues Superthread

[Footballfirst]

Another potential block to clubs getting promoted to the SPFL was agreed at the SPFL's AGM on Monday.

 

At the meeting clubs also voted unanimously to approve:

• a recommendation from the club licensing and membership criteria advisory group chaired by Iain McMenemy of Stenhousemuir that all SPFL clubs be required to have a bronze licence in terms of Scottish FA club licensing

 

At the moment, only Cumbernauld Colts has a "Bronze Licence" out of the 34 clubs in the Highland and Lowland Leagues,. The other 33 clubs only have an "Entry" level licence.

 

Indeed, Airdrie, Kelty, Cove, Peterhead and Bonnyrigg of the current SPFL clubs are also at "Entry" level, so will need a waiver or period of grace in order to meet the criteria.

 

The differences between Entry and Bronze mainly relate to ground facilities, e.g. brighter floodlights, more covered areas and perhaps a key one for Bonnyrigg, limitations on the slope of a pitch to 1 in 40, both over the length and breadth.

 

I'm sure that the current clubs will be given a reasonable period to get their houses in order. However, I don't know if such dispensation will be afforded to clubs seeking promotion into the SPFL.

[Footballfirst]

You can add Edinburgh City to the list of clubs with an "Entry" licence.

[Mikey1874]

McMenemy has angrily denied he wanted to block Lowland and Highland league clubs. Who knew.

[John Findlay]

I'm sat here singing to myself. The self preservation society.

[Footballfirst]

45 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

McMenemy has angrily denied he wanted to block Lowland and Highland league clubs. Who knew.

I note a couple of his tweets saying that there are already rules in place for Tier 5 clubs to ask for a waiver (would such a request be granted?).  Also that the unanimous vote was taken with the intention that all current SPFL clubs would reach Bronze standard by next season (a year's grace). 

[Mikey1874]

8 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I note a couple of his tweets saying that there are already rules in place for Tier 5 clubs to ask for a waiver (would such a request be granted?).  Also that the unanimous vote was taken with the intention that all current SPFL clubs would reach Bronze standard by next season (a year's grace). 

 

Raising standards is good. We've seen that with the licensing.

 

The key question is what the intention is. Is it protect League 2 clubs. What do they really think. Are they annoyed at the upstarts when they think they've invested more in grounds etc. 

 

I've contacted McMenemy about this (he does engage to be fair). He just made a snide comment and didn't answer the question about whether its  protectionism. 

[davemclaren]

19 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Raising standards is good. We've seen that with the licensing.

 

The key question is what the intention is. Is it protect League 2 clubs. What do they really think. Are they annoyed at the upstarts when they think they've invested more in grounds etc. 

 

I've contacted McMenemy about this (he does engage to be fair). He just made a snide comment and didn't answer the question about whether its  protectionism. 

How did you phrase the question? 😄

[Chuck Berry]

48 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Raising standards is good. We've seen that with the licensing.

 

The key question is what the intention is. Is it protect League 2 clubs. What do they really think. Are they annoyed at the upstarts when they think they've invested more in grounds etc. 

 

I've contacted McMenemy about this (he does engage to be fair). He just made a snide comment and didn't answer the question about whether its  protectionism. 

 

It's protectionism, he tried to stop relegation in 2020 for 2-3 years dressed up as "helping everyone recover from Covid".

[Daveandal]

Worrying situation 

[Footballfirst]

Here is an illustration of the pitch slope problem for Bonnyrigg if they are to obtain a Bronze licence (assuming the figures on the map are reasonably accurate).

 

https://www.freemaptools.com/elevation-finder.htm

 

 

The licensing rules place a limit of 1:40 on the slope of a pitch for a Bronze licence.  The width of New Dundas Park is circa 60m. That would allow for a 1.5m drop over the width.  The illustration above suggests a 2.6m drop at the Dundas Street end of the ground.  I'm sure that it is possible to level it or at least reduce the slope, but it won't be cheap.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Footballfirst

[davemclaren]

37 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Here is an illustration of the pitch slope problem for Bonnyrigg if they are to obtain a Bronze licence (assuming the figures on the map are reasonably accurate).

 

https://www.freemaptools.com/elevation-finder.htm

 

 

The licensing rules place a limit of 1:40 on the slope of a pitch for a Bronze licence.  The width of New Dundas Park is circa 60m. That would allow for a 1.5m drop over the width.  The illustration above suggests a 2.6m drop at the Dundas Street end of the ground.  I'm sure that it is possible to level it or at least reduce the slope, but it won't be cheap.

It is indeed a steep drop at that end but football has been played there for over a hundred years. I'm not sure the Rose can afford the significant work required to remedy that.  

[Footballfirst]

21 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

It is indeed a steep drop at that end but football has been played there for over a hundred years. I'm not sure the Rose can afford the significant work required to remedy that.  

It may be a case of "can they afford not to" make the required investment if they wish to retain their SPFL status.

 

I'd guess that they could drop the pitch by a metre or so at the Lothian Street side of the ground, but would have to build a retaining wall all the way along the length of the pitch and half the ends. The other side of the pitch could be built up by a similar amount but the level would have to be extended to the grass bank.  There would be implications for the existing drainage, the dug outs and possibly the floodlight cabling.

 

It's neither an easy nor a cheap job.

 

When I was at NDP for one of the pre season friendly matches I was told that they were looking at levelling the pitch.  I took that with a pinch of salt, but the SPFL's statement makes it clear why it was being considered. 

[davemclaren]

43 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

It may be a case of "can they afford not to" make the required investment if they wish to retain their SPFL status.

 

I'd guess that they could drop the pitch by a metre or so at the Lothian Street side of the ground, but would have to build a retaining wall all the way along the length of the pitch and half the ends. The other side of the pitch could be built up by a similar amount but the level would have to be extended to the grass bank.  There would be implications for the existing drainage, the dug outs and possibly the floodlight cabling.

 

It's neither an easy nor a cheap job.

 

When I was at NDP for one of the pre season friendly matches I was told that they were looking at levelling the pitch.  I took that with a pinch of salt, but the SPFL's statement makes it clear why it was being considered. 

👍

[Tommy Brown]

Good start for Hearts B.

Linlithgow Rose too, beating last seasons runners up.

[BlueRiver]

2 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

Good start for Hearts B.

Linlithgow Rose too, beating last seasons runners up.

 

Interested to see how Stirling do this year. It's early days still so I'm not sure if they'll still be waiting on players moving back up or what. 

 

Nature of a university side though is that they could be pretty pants this year. 

[part_time_jambo]

Reeks of teams trying to make it harder for other teams to get promoted and upset their status quo. Almost a closed shop again despite the initial hope that the pyramid would allow teams to find their level fairly quickly.

[Sooks]

On 19/07/2023 at 13:06, Mikey1874 said:

 

Raising standards is good. We've seen that with the licensing.

 

The key question is what the intention is. Is it protect League 2 clubs. What do they really think. Are they annoyed at the upstarts when they think they've invested more in grounds etc. 

 

I've contacted McMenemy about this (he does engage to be fair). He just made a snide comment and didn't answer the question about whether its  protectionism. 

Definitely protectionism . Clubs like his have to careful about how difficult they make it to get promoted from the Lowland League I’m terms of on the field , as if they go down they could end up victims of their own obstructions when trying to get back in . Better to place obstructions that involve licenses and the like 

[Sooks]

27 minutes ago, part_time_jambo said:

Reeks of teams trying to make it harder for other teams to get promoted and upset their status quo. Almost a closed shop again despite the initial hope that the pyramid would allow teams to find their level fairly quickly.

Why I had no sympathy when all these sporting integrity charlatans were whining about this conference league nonsense 

[skinnybob72]

43 minutes ago, part_time_jambo said:

Reeks of teams trying to make it harder for other teams to get promoted and upset their status quo. Almost a closed shop again despite the initial hope that the pyramid would allow teams to find their level fairly quickly.

Of course it does - how many of the teams relegated from League 2 have even looked like coming back again? Brechin got close last season losing in the POs to Spartans but Cowdenbeath, East Stirling, Berwick Rangers have been nowhere near it. Teams that were happy to bumble along with zero ambition other than hoping for a payday now and again through a cup draw against a Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs. 

 

Stenny are looking over their shoulder as the abyss awaits...

[Jarhead]

On 06/07/2023 at 21:15, Locky said:

Christ. Forgot to look at how they got on last night. Still find it very odd that they made the switch from LEAFA to EOS but good luck to them all the same. They finished 4th bottom in the 3rd tier of LEAFA amateur football. So, except for some serious recruitment, they're surely going to be in for a long and very difficult season.

Catching up on this thread and thought this an interesting post. 
 I know someone who used to be with Penicuik and went to watch them play Edinburgh College in the Challenge Cup in their first year in the EoSL. Penicuik absolutely battered them leaving me thinking Edinburgh College were well out of their depth. 
They were getting stiffed every week in the league as well but I did notice that they slowly did improve to the point that they could at least be competitive in the Third Division. I guess you can learn and therefore improve. 
When I mentioned Linton to the ex Penicuik guy he did think they would struggle to attract the level of player they require due to their location though. 

[jamboinglasgow]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

Why I had no sympathy when all these sporting integrity charlatans were whining about this conference league nonsense 

 

Exactly. Clubs were pandering to their fans releasing statements about how they would never agree withe conference league and it's unfair on the pyramid. As I said before everyone is out for themselves in Scottish football.

[Footballfirst]

2 hours ago, Jarhead said:

Catching up on this thread and thought this an interesting post. 
 I know someone who used to be with Penicuik and went to watch them play Edinburgh College in the Challenge Cup in their first year in the EoSL. Penicuik absolutely battered them leaving me thinking Edinburgh College were well out of their depth. 
They were getting stiffed every week in the league as well but I did notice that they slowly did improve to the point that they could at least be competitive in the Third Division. I guess you can learn and therefore improve. 
When I mentioned Linton to the ex Penicuik guy he did think they would struggle to attract the level of player they require due to their location though. 

I went down to West Linton yesterday to see their set up and watch their friendly against Leith Athletic (2 tiers above them). They lost 7-1, but at least they created a few chances.  I'd expect them to struggle in the lowest tier this season, but I think they will give a few of the weakest sides a decent game.

 

The setting is great with a clubhouse selling bottled beer as well as the usual pie and bovril stuff.  They have a small stand that seats around 60 and the pitch is immaculate.  They also have an area just beyond the pitch where both teams can do their warm ups, thus avoiding unnecessary wear on their pitch. 

 

Getting there is straight forward going down the A702. Less than 15 miles away for me.  I'm sure I'll head back down later in the season.

[Footballfirst]

Good to see more clubs improving their facilities.

 

 

https://pa.eastlothian.gov.uk/online-applications/files/DDA50A5C71A3D90DA945A4AC03C70254/pdf/23_00626_P-STAMPED_APPROVED_COLOUR_DRAWINGS-3348649.pdf

[Footballfirst]

The draws for the 1st and 2nd Preliminary rounds of the Scottish Cup were made this evening.

 

 

 

[Mikey1874]

20 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The draws for the 1st and 2nd Preliminary rounds of the Scottish Cup were made this evening.

 

 

 

 

Weekend of 2 September for Round 2

 

[Dayman]

6 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

The draws for the 1st and 2nd Preliminary rounds of the Scottish Cup were made this evening.

 

 

 

I wonder if the bookies will give me a price for Auchincleck -10.

[Locky]

10 hours ago, Dayman said:

I wonder if the bookies will give me a price for Auchincleck -10.

Aye that could be a real pumping. I'd fancy Clydebank to take a few off of Fort William as well.

 

Hopefully Hearts get past Rosenborg/Crusaders, as that'll mean our game vs Motherwell will get moved to the Sunday and I can go watch Musselburgh vs Coldstream. Should be a comfortable win for the Honest Toun. Would love to see them get a run this year.

[The Mighty Thor]

First game of the season yesterday.

 

Real football is back!

 

Good win for Dunbar Utd at home to Dundonald Bluebell and some good wins for Penicuik and Tynecastle.

 

Match day 2 on Tuesday👍

 

 

[Footballfirst]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

First game of the season yesterday.

 

Real football is back!

 

Good win for Dunbar Utd at home to Dundonald Bluebell and some good wins for Penicuik and Tynecastle.

 

Match day 2 on Tuesday👍

 

 

Tweets of the day from Penicuik. ⚽⚽

 

 

[EIEIO]

Gretna 2 Lithgae Rose 9. You lucky *******s it should have been 10.

[Tommy Brown]

Good day today, Wee Jambos beating Albion Rovers.

Wins again for Bo'ness and Lithgae 

Could be great scrap if those two are in the running throughout.

[Footballfirst]

20 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

Good day today, Wee Jambos beating Albion Rovers.

Wins again for Bo'ness and Lithgae 

Could be great scrap if those two are in the running throughout.

 

They play one another twice between Christmas and New Year. Think I might go along to the second one at Prestonfield.

[RobboM]

Opening day in the South of Scotland League
St Cuthbert's Wanderers 0-13 Newton Stewart
Also Newton Stewart only finished with 9 men
 

 

[Footballfirst]

The biggest surprise in the EOS was probably Penicuik losing 6-0 to newly promoted Glenrothes.

[The Mighty Thor]

7 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

The biggest surprise in the EOS was probably Penicuik losing 6-0 to newly promoted Glenrothes.

There's been a few odd scores the first 3 games. 

Matches coming thick and fast this month in the EOS and various cups. 

 

Dunbar have got 7 games in August 😳

[The Mighty Thor]

7 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

The biggest surprise in the EOS was probably Penicuik losing 6-0 to newly promoted Glenrothes.

Actually if you get a chance to see it on twitter ( I can't get it to upload)  Dunbar's keeper scored on Saturday from the edge of his own box. 

Total goalkeeping calamity 😂

[Dazo]

12 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Actually if you get a chance to see it on twitter ( I can't get it to upload)  Dunbar's keeper scored on Saturday from the edge of his own box. 

Total goalkeeping calamity 😂

Seen the video yesterday. Wasn’t even a kick from hands, on the deck. Impressive kick. 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

Seen the video yesterday. Wasn’t even a kick from hands, on the deck. Impressive kick. 

Despite the pissing rain all afternoon the pitch was pretty firm and the Haws keeper totally misjudged it. 

 

Chuffed for big Sean. He didn't know what to do with himself 😂

 

 

[Mikey1874]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Actually if you get a chance to see it on twitter ( I can't get it to upload)  Dunbar's keeper scored on Saturday from the edge of his own box. 

Total goalkeeping calamity 😂

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

16 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

 

That's the one 👍

[Footballfirst]

7 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

That's the one 👍

It looks like it was ex Hearts youth Daniel Baur who missed the attempted header from the punt up the park. For all his height (6' 5") he wasn't great in the air and could only jump 5' 10".

[The Mighty Thor]

7 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

It looks like it was ex Hearts youth Daniel Baur who missed the attempted header from the punt up the park. For all his height (6' 5") he wasn't great in the air and could only jump 5' 10".

Might have been. He started on the bench. 

 

To be fair the keeper called it his ball very early. Then missed it completely 😂

[Tommy Brown]

2-1 defeat for the colts tonight by Cowdenbeath.

[Footballfirst]

On 06/08/2023 at 23:15, Footballfirst said:

The biggest surprise in the EOS was probably Penicuik losing 6-0 to newly promoted Glenrothes.

What's going on at Penicuik? 

 

Beaten 6-0 last week and now 9(nine)-0 by Tynecastle today.

[Tommy Brown]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

What's going on at Penicuik? 

 

Beaten 6-0 last week and now 9(nine)-0 by Tynecastle today.

Came on to post the same

[Mikey1874]

[Footballfirst]

I took a trip to Luncarty today to watch their Scottish Cup tie against Loch Ness. The 3-1 scoreline in favour of the home side was more comfortable that it might suggest.  They hit the bar and the post in the first half and the Loch Ness keeper made 4 or 5 great saves.  Their reward? A wee trip down to D&G to play Newton Stewart in the next round.

 

Elsewhere in the Scottish Cup, WOS champions Beith had a narrow 2-1 win away to Midland League champions Carnoustie Panmure. Well done to Amateur Cup winners Cupar Hearts too for their 5-0 win away to SOS champions Abbey Vale.  Both winning sides will have local ties in the next round, with Beith at home to Bonnyton Thistle and Cupar Hearts have a difficult game away to Jeanfield Swifts.  

[Jarhead]

19 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

What's going on at Penicuik? 

 

Beaten 6-0 last week and now 9(nine)-0 by Tynecastle today.

Simply put,

 

1- Penicuik punched above their weight for several years. 
2- This caused them to lose their better players. 
3- So called “fans “ couldn’t accept that replacements signed for hundreds weren’t quite as good as those sold for thousands so started throwing verbal abuse about at the games. 
4- Team management resigned. Committee made an arse of it. 

It’s a shame as they had a very good period but there is at least half a dozen clubs with better facilities and a more progressive approach so I would think Penicuik will be towards the bottom of the league this season. 

 

[Mikey1874]

Partly interesting as Hearts played there recently.

 

 

[Chuck Berry]

7 hours ago, Jarhead said:

Simply put,

 

1- Penicuik punched above their weight for several years. 
2- This caused them to lose their better players. 
3- So called “fans “ couldn’t accept that replacements signed for hundreds weren’t quite as good as those sold for thousands so started throwing verbal abuse about at the games. 
4- Team management resigned. Committee made an arse of it. 

It’s a shame as they had a very good period but there is at least half a dozen clubs with better facilities and a more progressive approach so I would think Penicuik will be towards the bottom of the league this season. 

 

 

Penicuik have done very little to their facilities in 20 years, their changing rooms are poor, their hospitality areas are small to non-existent, inside the ground is poor, you have to go outside and back to the pavilion for a fillet of fish.  Some of their fans are arseholes, think they're better than they are and when they're not, chuck abuse at their own.