Pyramid Leagues Superthread

[Footballfirst]

30 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

OK I'll put it another way, you cannot use it as justification for the existence of B teams in the Pyramid.

I wasn't using it as justification for the existence of B teams. Their involvement in the LL is wrong. If the big clubs want B teams, then start at the bottom.  Play your U18s to start with and adjust your squad at each level of the pyramid.  No League admission fees required. No-one displaced.

 

Alternatively set up a new structure that separates full time clubs from the part time clubs and finance the leagues accordingly. Regionalise the part-timers, but enable them to get promoted if they commit to going full time.  If you want to add B Teams to the full time league setup, then fine.

 

The parallel I highlighted, was simply the last time that reserve sides were involved in the league, it was to the detriment of other clubs as more reserve sides got involved. Whether it was 70 years ago or going to happen next year, I don't like what happened then and I don't like what is likely to happen in the future.  

[Niemi’s gloves]

37 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I wasn't using it as justification for the existence of B teams. Their involvement in the LL is wrong. If the big clubs want B teams, then start at the bottom.  Play your U18s to start with and adjust your squad at each level of the pyramid.  No League admission fees required. No-one displaced.

 

Alternatively set up a new structure that separates full time clubs from the part time clubs and finance the leagues accordingly. Regionalise the part-timers, but enable them to get promoted if they commit to going full time.  If you want to add B Teams to the full time league setup, then fine.

 

The parallel I highlighted, was simply the last time that reserve sides were involved in the league, it was to the detriment of other clubs as more reserve sides got involved. Whether it was 70 years ago or going to happen next year, I don't like what happened then and I don't like what is likely to happen in the future.  

My reservation on the “start at the bottom” rhetoric as a general principle is that it takes no account of the extent of the pyramid. Does it make equal sense now that the pyramid has up to ten tiers as it did when there were only five? And what if the pyramid extended even further down to incorporate numerous amateur sides playing in local leagues?

 

I don’t think we can completely forget that we came close to going out of business nine years ago. If that had happened, I’m confident there would have been substantial backing for a Phoenix club, that as a worst case would have ended up in the lowland league and might well by now have worked its way back up to the top level. But starting again in Tier 10?

 

(I realize that this is somewhat away from the B team issue)

[Chuck Berry]

10 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I wasn't using it as justification for the existence of B teams. Their involvement in the LL is wrong. If the big clubs want B teams, then start at the bottom.  Play your U18s to start with and adjust your squad at each level of the pyramid.  No League admission fees required. No-one displaced.

 

Alternatively set up a new structure that separates full time clubs from the part time clubs and finance the leagues accordingly. Regionalise the part-timers, but enable them to get promoted if they commit to going full time.  If you want to add B Teams to the full time league setup, then fine.

 

The parallel I highlighted, was simply the last time that reserve sides were involved in the league, it was to the detriment of other clubs as more reserve sides got involved. Whether it was 70 years ago or going to happen next year, I don't like what happened then and I don't like what is likely to happen in the future.  

 

Fair enough, agree 100%

[Chuck Berry]

10 hours ago, davemclaren said:

The reps are part of discussions on a myriad of things but don't directly consult the fans on them.  There are defined items which FoH have to consult their members on and this isn't one. 

 

It should be, other fan owned clubs are consulting their Trusts, so should Hearts.  This directly affects the structure of Scottish football and has a material affect on everyone.

[Chuck Berry]

9 hours ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

My reservation on the “start at the bottom” rhetoric as a general principle is that it takes no account of the extent of the pyramid. Does it make equal sense now that the pyramid has up to ten tiers as it did when there were only five? And what if the pyramid extended even further down to incorporate numerous amateur sides playing in local leagues?

 

I don’t think we can completely forget that we came close to going out of business nine years ago. If that had happened, I’m confident there would have been substantial backing for a Phoenix club, that as a worst case would have ended up in the lowland league and might well by now have worked its way back up to the top level. But starting again in Tier 10?

 

(I realize that this is somewhat away from the B team issue)

 

That's the whole principle of a Pyramid structure, start at the very bottom, end up SPFL Champions, or at least the opportunity to do that is open to everyone.

 

AFC Wimbledon started at the bottom in the Combined Counties League, 9 years later they reached the EFL.

[Niemi’s gloves]

47 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

That's the whole principle of a Pyramid structure, start at the very bottom, end up SPFL Champions, or at least the opportunity to do that is open to everyone.

 

AFC Wimbledon started at the bottom in the Combined Counties League, 9 years later they reached the EFL.

No, you’ve got it wrong. AFC Wimbledon didn’t “start at the bottom”. They were able to start  in the Premier division  of the Combined Counties League, Tier 9, which covers a large  swathe of counties to the west and south of London and also parts of Greater London. There is a lower division within the CCL and then below that, large numbers of county leagues at Tier 11, and below that a system of promotion and relegation which notionally see the pyramid extend down to Tier 20 in some parts of England.

 

The point is that England seems to have a system in which Phoenix clubs can be placed at an appropriate level. As far as I can see, no thought  was given to the issue when the Scottish pyramid was cobbled together. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Niemi’s gloves

[Chuck Berry]

3 hours ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

No, you’ve got it wrong. AFC Wimbledon didn’t “start at the bottom”. They were able to start  in the Premier division  of the Combined Counties League, Tier 9, which covers a large  swathe of counties to the west and south of London and also parts of Greater London. There is a lower division within the CCL and then below that, large numbers of county leagues at Tier 11, and below that a system of promotion and relegation which notionally see the pyramid extend down to Tier 20 in some parts of England.

 

The point is that England seems to have a system in which Phoenix clubs can be placed at an appropriate level. As far as I can see, no thought  was given to the issue when the Scottish pyramid was cobbled together. 

 

Nope, there was no Premier Division, it came in the following season after a league merger. AFCW started at the lowest tier and were taking four figure crowds to clubs who normally got 50.

 

B teams are not phoenix teams either.  That provision probably came in as a result of AFCW and the fact that clubs struggled to handle the upturn in crowds, and the obvious difference in standard.  Having watched Hearts B, they would not have been a top 6 team in the EoS Premier this season.

 

Start at the bottom, if you piss it through a couple of seasons then fair enough.

[Niemi’s gloves]

2 hours ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

Nope, there was no Premier Division, it came in the following season after a league merger. AFCW started at the lowest tier and were taking four figure crowds to clubs who normally got 50.

 

B teams are not phoenix teams either.  That provision probably came in as a result of AFCW and the fact that clubs struggled to handle the upturn in crowds, and the obvious difference in standard.  Having watched Hearts B, they would not have been a top 6 team in the EoS Premier this season.

 

Start at the bottom, if you piss it through a couple of seasons then fair enough.

You’re correct that AFC Wimbledon’s creation in 2002 came when the pyramid was still in a very embryonic form. But the level they started at then is now a long way from being the bottom. As I pointed out in an earlier post, starting “at the bottom” in Scotland is also now very different to what it was 10 or 15 years ago. 
 

As for Hearts B team last season, they competed well in the vast majority of games. For instance, against LL champions Spartans they drew one game; and were the dominant team in the other game ( but lost 1-0). There were clearly a few teams in the LL that would struggle in the EoS premier. Hearts B weren’t one of them. 

[Chuck Berry]

9 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

You’re correct that AFC Wimbledon’s creation in 2002 came when the pyramid was still in a very embryonic form. But the level they started at then is now a long way from being the bottom. As I pointed out in an earlier post, starting “at the bottom” in Scotland is also now very different to what it was 10 or 15 years ago.
 

As for Hearts B team last season, they competed well in the vast majority of games. For instance, against LL champions Spartans they drew one game; and were the dominant team in the other game ( but lost 1-0). There were clearly a few teams in the LL that would struggle in the EoS premier. Hearts B weren’t one of them. 

 

AFC Wimbledon started at the bottom of the pile [they were a new club after all], thanks for agreeing that I wasn't in fact wrong.

 

I've watched plenty of the EoS Premier and have also watched Hearts B [I was at that Spartans game at Ainslie Park].  Most teams in the lower half of the Lowland would struggle to break into the top 6 of the EoS Premier, the bottom two would fall straight through.

 

However to get back to the original point, the Conference needs to be voted down [even better if the SFA just withdraw the motion], and for the SFA to engage with clubs rather than dictate. B teams in the Lowland are not welcome either, but if they are to exist there is a place in the Pyramid structure for them if they want it, starting at the bottom.

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Chuck Berry

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

.......... but if they are to exist there is a place in the Pyramid structure for them if they want it, starting at the bottom.

 

Hearts missed the boat in that regard. When the OF were accepted as LL guests for the first time in 2021/22, Hearts should have entered a reserve side in the EOSFL (no £25k entry fee and no age restrictions). 

 

The EOSFL had decided to operate Conferences below the EOS Premier League for that season.  There is every likelihood that Hearts would have won their conference and with it promotion to the Premier league.  They would at least have given Linlithgow a good run for their money and potentially promotion to the LL for next season, which is exactly where they will be playing in 2023/24.

[Chuck Berry]

16 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Hearts missed the boat in that regard. When the OF were accepted as LL guests for the first time in 2021/22, Hearts should have entered a reserve side in the EOSFL (no £25k entry fee and no age restrictions). 

 

The EOSFL had decided to operate Conferences below the EOS Premier League for that season.  There is every likelihood that Hearts would have won their conference and with it promotion to the Premier league.  They would at least have given Linlithgow a good run for their money and potentially promotion to the LL for next season, which is exactly where they will be playing in 2023/24.

 

The conferences were one season only when around 30 clubs joined from the Juniors, in 2018/19. However the point stands, if any B team in the east had joined that season, chances are they are currently in the EoS Premier or Lowland as bona fide members.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Chuck Berry

[Footballfirst]

5 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

The conferences were one season only when around 30 clubs joined from the Juniors, in 2018/19. However the point stands, if any B team in the east had joined that season, chances are they are currently in the EoS Premier or Lowland as bona fide members.

I made a mistake in my timing re the entry of Hearts to the EOS. It would have had to have been a season earlier in 2020/21, as last season (2021/22) the EOS operated Conferences A, B, C and X.  Hearts would have ended up in Conference X, rather than A, B, or C.

 

Conferences were first used in 2018/19, as you say, but without a Premier League. Bonnyrigg was promoted to the LL after a three way playoff with Penicuik and Broxburn. (There was no licensed SOS champion)

 

In 2019/20 (curtailed by Covid), it was a Premier League and two conferences at First division level.

 

In 2020/21 (also curtailed by Covid) it was the same set-up of two conferences below the Premier League.

 

In 2021/22 it was a Premier League with three conferences (A/B/C) at First division level and a Conference X below that accommodating the late junior entries from West Lothian. 

 

The current season has seen the Premier League with three lower tiers at Divisions 1, 2 and 3.  

[Chuck Berry]

5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I made a mistake in my timing re the entry of Hearts to the EOS. It would have had to have been a season earlier in 2020/21, as last season (2021/22) the EOS operated Conferences A, B, C and X.  Hearts would have ended up in Conference X, rather than A, B, or C.

 

Conferences were first used in 2018/19, as you say, but without a Premier League. Bonnyrigg was promoted to the LL after a three way playoff with Penicuik and Broxburn. (There was no licensed SOS champion)

 

In 2019/20 (curtailed by Covid), it was a Premier League and two conferences at First division level.

 

In 2020/21 (also curtailed by Covid) it was the same set-up of two conferences below the Premier League.

 

In 2021/22 it was a Premier League with three conferences (A/B/C) at First division level and a Conference X below that accommodating the late junior entries from West Lothian. 

 

The current season has seen the Premier League with three lower tiers at Divisions 1, 2 and 3.  

 

Fair point, there were conferences in operation below the Premier, for longer than they should have been due to Covid.

[Footballfirst]

Well done Spartans today and, in particular, ex-Hearts youth midfielder Bradley White who scored the opening goal and ex-Hearts youth keeper Blair Carswell who excelled in the penalty shootout.  Just two more games to go to reach the promised land of the SPFL, before the pyramid is screwed up with the proposed conference league.  It will be a tough ask to beat Albion Rovers as they appear to be the strongest "Club 42" for a few years.

 

In the SOSFL, Abbey Vale all but clinched the title with a 4-1 win over Lochmaben. There remains the mathematical possibility of AV losing out to Creetown, but would have to lose their final game against Stranraer Reserves on Monday night by 26 goals. 

[Mikey1874]

So disappointment for Brechin. But if the Conference League is approved they just need to do finish in top 2 in Highland League next season to get into that and work from there.

[AndrewB]

So, Dalbeattie relegated as LL won’t be a team short due to it being Spartans v Albion R.

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, AndrewB said:

So, Dalbeattie relegated as LL won’t be a team short due to it being Spartans v Albion R.

Also Edinburgh Uni spared for another season.

[davemclaren]

37 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Well done Spartans today and, in particular, ex-Hearts youth midfielder Bradley White who scored the opening goal and ex-Hearts youth keeper Blair Carswell who excelled in the penalty shootout.  Just two more games to go to reach the promised land of the SPFL, before the pyramid is screwed up with the proposed conference league.  It will be a tough ask to beat Albion Rovers as they appear to be the strongest "Club 42" for a few years.

 

In the SOSFL, Abbey Vale all but clinched the title with a 4-1 win over Lochmaben. There remains the mathematical possibility of AV losing out to Creetown, but would have to lose their final game against Stranraer Reserves on Monday night by 26 goals. 

How is the pyramid screwed? Still the same opportunity of promotion? 

[part_time_jambo]

On 04/05/2023 at 19:40, Footballfirst said:

I made a mistake in my timing re the entry of Hearts to the EOS. It would have had to have been a season earlier in 2020/21, as last season (2021/22) the EOS operated Conferences A, B, C and X.  Hearts would have ended up in Conference X, rather than A, B, or C.

 

Conferences were first used in 2018/19, as you say, but without a Premier League. Bonnyrigg was promoted to the LL after a three way playoff with Penicuik and Broxburn. (There was no licensed SOS champion)

 

In 2019/20 (curtailed by Covid), it was a Premier League and two conferences at First division level.

 

In 2020/21 (also curtailed by Covid) it was the same set-up of two conferences below the Premier League.

 

In 2021/22 it was a Premier League with three conferences (A/B/C) at First division level and a Conference X below that accommodating the late junior entries from West Lothian. 

 

The current season has seen the Premier League with three lower tiers at Divisions 1, 2 and 3.  

They would have won promotion in second place behind Whitburn. 🙂

[Footballfirst]

3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

How is the pyramid screwed? Still the same opportunity of promotion? 

Is there?  I don't know how promotion/relegation will work in future seasons.

 

A pyramid normally gets wider at each step you drop. Not in Scotland, of course, where the authorities seem intent on making the tower on top of the pyramid even taller.

 

Take clubs like Berwick Rangers or Civil Service Strollers, or Linlithgow Rose, each may harbour ambitions of getting back to, or reaching, the SPFL.  If they are not fortunate enough to be one of the select few invited to join the Conference League in season 1, then they will be two promotions away from the SPFL rather than one. 

 

The same applies to current tier 6 clubs who will be three promotions instead of two away from the SPFL.

 

To whose benefit is a "Conference League" at Tier 5?  The B teams? Not really. They are committed to an investment of half a million pounds over five seasons, to have their youths play in a league that doesn't allow them promotion. Is Tier 5 really where your best youngsters (with the ability to reach the first team) should be playing at 18/19 years old? Wouldn't loans to Tier 2 or 3 clubs not make better sense?  There are plenty fans who are already questioning how much the academy costs.

 

The beneficiaries appear to be limited to two groups. First those clubs in danger of exiting the SPFL effectively get a year's grace of being financially secure should they be relegated to the conference.  The second group are the invited LL and HL clubs who might earn £40k-£50k a year in the conference as opposed to £0 in the LL and HL.  They are still no closer to the SPFL though. 

[Footballfirst]

7 minutes ago, part_time_jambo said:

They would have won promotion in second place behind Whitburn. 🙂

Perhaps 😀

 

But would have ended up in EOS Division 2 , instead of EOS Premier League had they joined the EOS before Whitburn and the rest of the W Lothian latecomers. 

[jamboinglasgow]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

Well done Spartans today and, in particular, ex-Hearts youth midfielder Bradley White who scored the opening goal and ex-Hearts youth keeper Blair Carswell who excelled in the penalty shootout.  Just two more games to go to reach the promised land of the SPFL, before the pyramid is screwed up with the proposed conference league.  It will be a tough ask to beat Albion Rovers as they appear to be the strongest "Club 42" for a few years.

 

In the SOSFL, Abbey Vale all but clinched the title with a 4-1 win over Lochmaben. There remains the mathematical possibility of AV losing out to Creetown, but would have to lose their final game against Stranraer Reserves on Monday night by 26 goals. 

 

Being pedantic, but the conference league is not due to be brought in till 2024/25 season, so there is still another season and play off chance before then.

 

Still think there should be a compromise where the promotion/relegation between League Two and conference league should be a straight one rather than a play off, would hope the SPFL leaned on League two to make them agree (could be the argument that if they go down its easier to go back up.) 

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said:

Being pedantic, but the conference league is not due to be brought in till 2024/25 season, so there is still another season and play off chance before then.

 

Still think there should be a compromise where the promotion/relegation between League Two and conference league should be a straight one rather than a play off, would hope the SPFL leaned on League two to make them agree (could be the argument that if they go down its easier to go back up.) 

I'm not 100% certain that the Club 42/HL/LL play-off remain at the end of next season.  In order to get buy in from the SPFL tier 4 clubs, I can see the play-off being suspended for a season, with the top 4 in the LL and top 2 in the HL being "promoted" to the Conference League (still at tier 5) instead of contesting a play-off to the SPFL.

 

That might be the first compromise, before your compromise kicks in a season later.

[davemclaren]

11 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Is there?  I don't know how promotion/relegation will work in future seasons.

 

A pyramid normally gets wider at each step you drop. Not in Scotland, of course, where the authorities seem intent on making the tower on top of the pyramid even taller.

 

Take clubs like Berwick Rangers or Civil Service Strollers, or Linlithgow Rose, each may harbour ambitions of getting back to, or reaching, the SPFL.  If they are not fortunate enough to be one of the select few invited to join the Conference League in season 1, then they will be two promotions away from the SPFL rather than one. 

 

The same applies to current tier 6 clubs who will be three promotions instead of two away from the SPFL.

 

To whose benefit is a "Conference League" at Tier 5?  The B teams? Not really. They are committed to an investment of half a million pounds over five seasons, to have their youths play in a league that doesn't allow them promotion. Is Tier 5 really where your best youngsters (with the ability to reach the first team) should be playing at 18/19 years old? Wouldn't loans to Tier 2 or 3 clubs not make better sense?  There are plenty fans who are already questioning how much the academy costs.

 

The beneficiaries appear to be limited to two groups. First those clubs in danger of exiting the SPFL effectively get a year's grace of being financially secure should they be relegated to the conference.  The second group are the invited LL and HL clubs who might earn £40k-£50k a year in the conference as opposed to £0 in the LL and HL.  They are still no closer to the SPFL though. 

I didn't realise that Conference membership was by invitation. That's certainly wrong imo. 

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I didn't realise that Conference membership was by invitation. That's certainly wrong imo. 

 

Ultimately the Conference is about getting Rangers and Celtic B into the league and giving some protection to League 2 clubs.

 

Of course all the detail including whether the B teams can be promoted up to League One are to be confirmed.

[Footballfirst]

3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I didn't realise that Conference membership was by invitation. That's certainly wrong imo. 

We don't know at this stage what the formation criteria will be.  I assume the the highest placed sides would be invited. However, there could be a change in licensing criteria, e.g. more powerful floodlights, a minimum number of seats under cover.  Then there is the question, most specifically for the HL clubs, that some teams may not wish to join a national league with all the travel involved, e.g. Buckie Thistle, Fraserburgh etc. 

[davemclaren]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

Ultimately the Conference is about getting Rangers and Celtic B into the league and giving some protection to League 2 clubs.

 

Of course all the detail including whether the B teams can be promoted up to League One are to be confirmed.

I think it's already confirmed that they can't be promoted. 

[Mikey1874]

Just now, davemclaren said:

I think it's already confirmed that they can't be promoted. 

 

Where?

 

Nothing has been formally confirmed.

[davemclaren]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

Where?

 

Nothing has been formally confirmed.

Wherever I read it. Here probably. 
 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/23486046.new-conference-league-including-celtic-rangers-colts---explained/

[Footballfirst]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Where?

 

Nothing has been formally confirmed.

I believe that a proposal was circulated to LL and HL clubs which outlined the basics. That proposal certainly influenced the LL clubs in their vote to admit B Teams for 2023/24 (with a thinly veiled threat of a conference league being imposed if they didn't accept the status quo for another season).

 

LL chairman Thomas Brown also outlined the proposal in his interview with the "Official Catchup" podcast a couple of weeks ago.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Footballfirst

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I believe that a proposal was circulated to LL and HL clubs which outlined the basics. That proposal certainly influenced the LL clubs in their vote to admit B Teams for 2023/24 (with a thinly veiled threat of a conference league being imposed if they didn't accept the status quo for another season).

 

LL chairman Thomas Brown also outlined the proposal in his interview with the "Official Catchup" podcast a couple of weeks ago.

 

But the proposal hasn't been published. 

[Footballfirst]

Just now, R9. said:

So are Linlithgow Rose now in the lowland league from next season.

I'd wait until the LL confirms it.

 

In theory they could still face a play off with Creetown, if Abbey Vale loses its final league game by 26 goals or more. (inconceivable)  

 

There is also a remote possibility of them being forced into a play-off with Beith if someone with the necessary gravitas decides that Beith can be given a waiver with regard to their licence. (almost inconceivable)

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

But the proposal hasn't been published. 

It must have been "published" in some form to the HL and LL clubs, or the likes of Thomas Brown wouldn't have been able to talk about it.  It's the usual opaqueness of the football authorities who claim that they can's publish details for confidentiality or commercial reasons.

 

 

 

[Niemi’s gloves]

28 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

We don't know at this stage what the formation criteria will be.  I assume the the highest placed sides would be invited. However, there could be a change in licensing criteria, e.g. more powerful floodlights, a minimum number of seats under cover.  Then there is the question, most specifically for the HL clubs, that some teams may not wish to join a national league with all the travel involved, e.g. Buckie Thistle, Fraserburgh etc. 

 

On your speculation about licensing criteria, I’d say more requirements at various points on the pyramid (including the SPFL leagues) would  be a good thing. To my mind it’s nonsense that FC Edinburgh were allowed to move up to League One and play at the totally inadequate Meadowbank. Similarly, Queen’s Park getting to the verge of the premier league without a proper ground is also dubious (and I doubt that lesser Hampden when it’s eventually finished will really fit the bill). The current system gives ambitious clubs too much encouragement to spend on the team while ignoring their facilities. 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Niemi’s gloves

[Footballfirst]

7 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

On your speculation about licensing criteria, I’d say more requirements at various points on the pyramid (including the SPFL leagues) would  be a good thing. To my mind it’s nonsense that FC Edinburgh were allowed to move up to League One and play at the totally inadequate Meadowbank. Similarly, Queen’s Park getting to the verge of the premier league without a proper ground is also dubious (and I doubt that lesser Hampden when it’s eventually finished will really fit the bill). The current system gives ambitious clubs too much encouragement to spend on the team while ignoring their facilities. 

I agree with your first sentence, but not so sure about the rest.  Do you create a disincentive situation for the smaller and ambitious clubs? If Lesser Hampden or Meadowbank meet whatever licensing criteria are in place at the time then they should be eligible for promotion.  Meadowbank may not have great viewing, but is does have 500 seats under cover with an uninterrupted view of the pitch. The same couldn't be said for other grounds already in the SPFL.  I was at Bonnyrigg today with a crowd of over 2,000. It was a great atmosphere, but they may only have around 60 seats with none of them under cover, grass bankings as terraces etc.

 

I don't like any idea of clubs being excluded because fans of other clubs don't like the facilities on offer.  If a club wants to be promoted and only has a capacity of 1,000 and meets licensing criteria, then so what. With clubs retaining their own gates, it only impacts on the earning ability of that club.

[Allowayjambo1874]

3 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I'd wait until the LL confirms it.

 

In theory they could still face a play off with Creetown, if Abbey Vale loses its final league game by 26 goals or more. (inconceivable)  

 

There is also a remote possibility of them being forced into a play-off with Beith if someone with the necessary gravitas decides that Beith can be given a waiver with regard to their licence. (almost inconceivable)

Think even Beith have given up any chance of promotion without licence, statement from 2 weeks ago 

 

[Footballfirst]

CSS is the latest LL club to show its opposition to the Conference League.

 

 

Incidentally Matty was at Riccarton as a youngster, at the same time as his brother Oli. 

[Sooks]

I do not fancy this shitty wee conference league either , but let us not pretend the lowland league are not shitting on the divisions below it at the moment either . I am finding sympathy for them very hard to muster 

[Mikey1874]

 

[Footballfirst]

Abbey Vale confirmed SOS champions after beating Stranraer Reserves this evening. Just waiting for the LL to confirm Linlithgow's promotion.

[hmfc4life1991]

10 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Abbey Vale confirmed SOS champions after beating Stranraer Reserves this evening. Just waiting for the LL to confirm Linlithgow's promotion.

The Rose are posting all over thier socials that they're going up 

[John Gentleman]

4 hours ago, hmfc4life1991 said:

The Rose are posting all over thier socials that they're going up 

The LL will be better for their inclusion. That said, it would've been a cracker of a playoff v Beith.

[John Findlay]

At work until 2.15pm, so it's Spartans v Albion Rovers at Ainslie Park for me this afternoon.

[Tommy Brown]

Would rather have Spartans than Albion Rovers.

Unfortunately, big Sandy taking over there is putting me on a guilt trip.

[Footballfirst]

Conference league summary proposals.

 

https://twitter.com/SMMediaEnt/status/1657311604579487744?t=i6wzdMLMYj27vkKkuOIyGQ&s=19

[BlueRiver]

14 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Conference league summary proposals.

 

https://twitter.com/SMMediaEnt/status/1657311604579487744?t=i6wzdMLMYj27vkKkuOIyGQ&s=19

 

Really do not see the point of it. 

[Footballfirst]

All set for a winner takes all finale. 

 

 

[Flimsy]

3 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Conference league summary proposals.

 

https://twitter.com/SMMediaEnt/status/1657311604579487744?t=i6wzdMLMYj27vkKkuOIyGQ&s=19

Shame on Hearts being party to this farce.

[John Findlay]

49 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

All set for a winner takes all finale. 

 

 

It was a fair result in the end.

[skinnybob72]

Why would a team like Spartans or Tranent want to play in a league where they would have 16 games against B teams full of kids? I don’t see the point at all.