Trans athletes

[doctor jambo]

The difficulty is accommodating everybody without hurting all the delicate folk out there .

 

I would like to live as a woman- fine

I would like to dress as a woman- fine

I want to live without harassment and bullying - fine

I feel like a woman - ok

I am a woman - no, your not.

And what is more. You never were, and you never will be.

And no amount of platitudes will change that .

The lies people are telling you that you can be converted by modern surgery are not helpful.

You are what you are.

and sometimes you have to accept that, even though you don’t like it

[CF11JamTart]

3 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Exactly 

Trans privilege 

And specifically, sex = male Trans privilege. 

 

If you've been through male puberty, you should compete in male category. Simples. 

 

Acknowledging that there are a tiny tiny number of intersex athletes... But that's genetic / chromosomal, and shouldn't be used as a redherring to allow Lia and Emily to compete in Elite sport against women who not have the competitive advantage of having gone through male puberty. (i cannot believe I'm writing this... Isn't it Just Plain Obvious?). 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, CF11JamTart said:

And specifically, sex = male Trans privilege. 

 

If you've been through male puberty, you should compete in male category. Simples. 

 

Acknowledging that there are a tiny tiny number of intersex athletes... But that's genetic / chromosomal, and shouldn't be used as a redherring to allow Lia and Emily to compete in Elite sport against women who not have the competitive advantage of having gone through male puberty. (i cannot believe I'm writing this... Isn't it Just Plain Obvious?). 

No your right that you even need to explain it. 

[CF11JamTart]

5 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The difficulty is accommodating everybody without hurting all the delicate folk out there .

 

I would like to live as a woman- fine

I would like to dress as a woman- fine

I want to live without harassment and bullying - fine

I feel like a woman - ok

I am a woman - no, your not.

And what is more. You never were, and you never will be.

And no amount of platitudes will change that .

The lies people are telling you that you can be converted by modern surgery are not helpful.

You are what you are.

and sometimes you have to accept that, even though you don’t like it

I am totally on-board with this. 

 

Points 1-4... Totally fair enough in a civilised, tolerant society. 

 

But... 

Because I feel like a woman, I am a woman and I get all the access to things and "privileges" that women get. Bogs, changing rooms, women-only shortlists, women's prisons, women's sports etc...  No. Defo no. 

 

On a side note, what's the bets that the first female leader of the Labour Party will be a man? Wouldn't that be terribly modern? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The difficulty is accommodating everybody without hurting all the delicate folk out there .

 

I would like to live as a woman- fine

I would like to dress as a woman- fine

I want to live without harassment and bullying - fine

I feel like a woman - ok

I am a woman - no, your not.

And what is more. You never were, and you never will be.

And no amount of platitudes will change that .

The lies people are telling you that you can be converted by modern surgery are not helpful.

You are what you are.

and sometimes you have to accept that, even though you don’t like it

👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

On a side note, what's the bets that the first female leader of the Labour Party will be a man? Wouldn't that be terribly modern? 

The Labour party may well go for broke then.  Their trans policies are gonna sink them at the next election.

[CF11JamTart]

26 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

The Labour party may well go for broke then.  Their trans policies are gonna sink them at the next election.

I think you're right. They have got themselves in too deep with their trans policies, presumably in the name of being progressive. 

 

For me, it all started to unravel with trans women on all-women shortlists. 

 

But yeah. This seems to be their One Big Thing.

[JudyJudyJudy]

People want their politicians to be honest. Its lacking nowadays really.

 

If any are asked " can a woman have a penis"? and they cant argue that truthfully they shouldn't get anyone's vote. 

[CF11JamTart]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

People want their politicians to be honest. Its lacking nowadays really.

 

If any are asked " can a woman have a penis"? and they cant argue that truthfully they shouldn't get anyone's vote. 

Well, your see, James it's a lot more complex than that. It's a difficult question and it's important that people aren't constrained by the sex they are assigned at birth.. As we all know, children are born without sex. So people need to be able to live as their Authentic Selves in whichever gender or genders they feel most comfortable. 

 

(Am I doing it right?) 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, CF11JamTart said:

Well, your see, James it's a lot more complex than that. It's a difficult question and it's important that people aren't constrained by the sex they are assigned at birth.. As we all know, children are born without sex. So people need to be able to live as their Authentic Selves in whichever gender or genders they feel most comfortable. 

 

(Am I doing it right?) 

Nope. Apparently you are " assigned" your gender at birth.  

[CF11JamTart]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Nope. Apparently you are " assigned" your gender at birth.  

Is it like, a tombola in the maternity ward? 

 

Thank Christ I got the blue ticket, 'cos last time I checked, I've got penis.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, CF11JamTart said:

Is it like, a tombola in the maternity ward? 

 

Thank Christ I got the blue ticket, 'cos last time I checked, I've got penis.

yes u get a blue or pink ticket  

[AlimOzturk]

Seen statements from trans athletes saying the majority of women competitors support them. I think the real answer to this is that most women will terrified to speak out for fear of being labelled transphobic and getting cancelled. 

[Lord Montpelier]

5 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Seen statements from trans athletes saying the majority of women competitors support them. I think the real answer to this is that most women will terrified to speak out for fear of being labelled transphobic and getting cancelled. 

Yep. They ain't exactly going to say their competition (that they might be about to destroy) are against them

[CF11JamTart]

5 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Seen statements from trans athletes saying the majority of women competitors support them. I think the real answer to this is that most women will terrified to speak out for fear of being labelled transphobic and getting cancelled. 

If they had a secret ballot... 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

9 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

This is the cyclist's statement. 

 

 

Totally selfish attitude from someone who is used to getting their own way. 

If they can't see the unfairness in what they are doing, then it's a pointless debate.

Folk so frightened to stand up for common sense on case they get the cancellation treatment.

[Taffin]

Can I identify as 67 and start drawing my pension?

 

Also, I've always fancied living in the States, can I identify as American and have my identity respected, or will their passport office tell me to Foxtrot Oscar?

[JudyJudyJudy]

52 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Seen statements from trans athletes saying the majority of women competitors support them. I think the real answer to this is that most women will terrified to speak out for fear of being labelled transphobic and getting cancelled. 

Correct. However the tide is turning and more are now. The power of the cancel culture is diminishing daily i feel. 

[Mikey1874]

Would be interesting seeing the trans cyclist Emily Bridges win Olympics and World Championships.

 

She should do given her times and record as a male athlete. One of the first who is at elite womens level. 

 

Will raise the stakes. 

[CF11JamTart]

47 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Can I identify as 67 and start drawing my pension?

 

Also, I've always fancied living in the States, can I identify as American and have my identity respected, or will their passport office tell me to Foxtrot Oscar?

I think there was a Dutch guy in his 60s who wanted the legal right to be 45 or whatever. For online dating. 

 

He said felt 45.

He lived like a 45 year old. 

And a doctor assessed him as said that he had the constitution of a 45 year old. 

 

 

So therefore he's 45. 

 

Sadly, I cannot remember the outcome. 

 

But it's the same absurdity. 

[Dawnrazor]

13 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

I think there was a Dutch guy in his 60s who wanted the legal right to be 45 or whatever. For online dating. 

 

He said felt 45.

He lived like a 45 year old. 

And a doctor assessed him as said that he had the constitution of a 45 year old. 

 

 

So therefore he's 45. 

 

Sadly, I cannot remember the outcome. 

 

But it's the same absurdity. 

I remember that😅

[redjambo]

16 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

I think there was a Dutch guy in his 60s who wanted the legal right to be 45 or whatever. For online dating. 

 

He said felt 45.

He lived like a 45 year old. 

And a doctor assessed him as said that he had the constitution of a 45 year old. 

 

 

So therefore he's 45. 

 

Sadly, I cannot remember the outcome. 

 

But it's the same absurdity. 

 

The court rejected his attempt.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emile_Ratelband

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

The court rejected his attempt.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emile_Ratelband

Absolute madness 😂

[CF11JamTart]

10 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

The court rejected his attempt.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emile_Ratelband

Thank you! 

[graygo]

2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

The court rejected his attempt.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emile_Ratelband

 

2 out of 3 ain't bad.

 

"You can change your name. You can change your gender. Why not your age?"

[escobri]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10679981/Trans-goalkeeper-used-play-mens-football-selected-England-Universities-womens-side.html

It's what women’s football needs tbf, goalkeepers are always shocking.

 

[Irufushi]

This whole thing gets me riled. Yer a bloke , chop Off Yer tadger and no matter what you say you are still a bloke. 
 

load of nonsense.

 

Stop pandering to these arseholes .

[luckyBatistuta]

20 hours ago, escobri said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10679981/Trans-goalkeeper-used-play-mens-football-selected-England-Universities-womens-side.html

It's what women’s football needs tbf, goalkeepers are always shocking.

 

Penalty!!!

[doctor jambo]

20 hours ago, Irufushi said:

This whole thing gets me riled. Yer a bloke , chop Off Yer tadger and no matter what you say you are still a bloke. 
 

load of nonsense.

 

Stop pandering to these arseholes .

The need for the world to listen to everyone , and avoid upsetting people no matter what they say or think.

Not allowed to offend anyone.

Trying to crowbar how everyone feels about random stuff is causing chaos .

everything is medicalised, nobody ever has to accept things and live with things .

Jokes that are not even hate speech .

Some beliefs are sacrosanct , others banned and criminalised .

Nothing is ever just a phase anymore.

it’s all an illness.

[ri Alban]

26 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The need for the world to listen to everyone , and avoid upsetting people no matter what they say or think.

Not allowed to offend anyone.

Trying to crowbar how everyone feels about random stuff is causing chaos .

everything is medicalised, nobody ever has to accept things and live with things .

Jokes that are not even hate speech .

Some beliefs are sacrosanct , others banned and criminalised .

Nothing is ever just a phase anymore.

it’s all an illness.

So we see 🙈

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

The need for the world to listen to everyone , and avoid upsetting people no matter what they say or think.

Not allowed to offend anyone.

Trying to crowbar how everyone feels about random stuff is causing chaos .

everything is medicalised, nobody ever has to accept things and live with things .

Jokes that are not even hate speech .

Some beliefs are sacrosanct , others banned and criminalised .

Nothing is ever just a phase anymore.

it’s all an illness.

It’s when fiction takes over fact which is really disturbing . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Good news 

 

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/apr/04/trans-people-can-be-excluded-single-sex-services-if-justifiable-says-ehrc

[Captain Slog]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Good news 

 

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/apr/04/trans-people-can-be-excluded-single-sex-services-if-justifiable-says-ehrc

Stonewall have thrown their rattle out the pram and are fighting it James.  They've also bullied 100+ organisations into boycotting the safe to be me conference, thus throwing the LGB part of society under a train with regard to conversion therapy.

[Captain Slog]

By that i mean, health professionals will now be scared to discuss a child's sexuality with them.  And the quite frankly nazi methods of the trans community will encourage said kids that the only option is trans.  Women and gays have fought many years for the right to openly have roles or preferences which differ from society stereotypes, and just as the glass ceiling looked breached, it looks like individuals rights to do that is being removed, and they have to conform to gender.

[JudyJudyJudy]

15 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

Stonewall have thrown their rattle out the pram and are fighting it James.  They've also bullied 100+ organisations into boycotting the safe to be me conference, thus throwing the LGB part of society under a train with regard to conversion therapy.

Stonewall are a disgrace now . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Captain Slog said:

By that i mean, health professionals will now be scared to discuss a child's sexuality with them.  And the quite frankly nazi methods of the trans community will encourage said kids that the only option is trans.  Women and gays have fought many years for the right to openly have roles or preferences which differ from society stereotypes, and just as the glass ceiling looked breached, it looks like individuals rights to do that is being removed, and they have to conform to gender.

Good summary , hence my comments about the issue “ erasure “ of gay or lesbian identity . 

[Malinga the Swinga]

23 hours ago, Irufushi said:

This whole thing gets me riled. Yer a bloke , chop Off Yer tadger and no matter what you say you are still a bloke. 
 

load of nonsense.

 

Stop pandering to these arseholes .

The trans swimmer in US who won college event hasn't chopped off anything. According to the women who share changing room, she wanders around naked with genatalia openly displayed. She/he doesn't see it as her problem, more it is the other competitors problem and they should be made to deal with it.

Sad state of affairs.

[OTT]

4 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

The trans swimmer in US who won college event hasn't chopped off anything. According to the women who share changing room, she wanders around naked with genatalia openly displayed. She/he doesn't see it as her problem, more it is the other competitors problem and they should be made to deal with it.

Sad state of affairs.

 

Kinda reminds me of this:

 

 

Partly in jest, but there doesn't seem to be a line anymore. SMH

[Captain Slog]

8 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

The trans swimmer in US who won college event hasn't chopped off anything. According to the women who share changing room, she wanders around naked with genatalia openly displayed. She/he doesn't see it as her problem, more it is the other competitors problem and they should be made to deal with it.

Sad state of affairs.

I am shocked at this, those poor women should have safe spaces,

 

And i know there was a discussion elsewhere about how violence is wrong, we shouldn't let emotion cloud our judgement, but if someone with male genatalia tried that in a changing room with my partner, he'd very soon find it was his problem, and that he#d be unable to compete after i broke him, big lad though he seems.

[Lord Montpelier]

1 hour ago, Captain Slog said:

I am shocked at this, those poor women should have safe spaces,

 

And i know there was a discussion elsewhere about how violence is wrong, we shouldn't let emotion cloud our judgement, but if someone with male genatalia tried that in a changing room with my partner, he'd very soon find it was his problem, and that he#d be unable to compete after i broke him, big lad though he seems.

It's a sorry state of affairs. 

 

But in Scotland, a vote for Sturgeons SNP is an endorsement  of this sort of nonsence. 

[CF11JamTart]

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Good summary , hence my comments about the issue “ erasure “ of gay or lesbian identity . 

That's the way it's looking. 

 

Sleepwalking in to the position where people cannot be "just gay" or "just lesbian". 

 

Instead, a young person could well get railroaded down the trans route. 

 

When in fact, talking about sexuality and that it's OK for a boy to fancy other boys and for a girl to fancy other girls... might be all that's needed. It's the 21st century FFS. 

 

But then that does not benefit the Trans Industry, does it?

 

And yeah... I find that the LBG Alliance talk a lot of sense (transphobic *******s!). 

[CF11JamTart]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

I know I shouldn't but...

 

...tee hee hee.

Well played. 

 

Trans Europe Express etc. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

22 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

That's the way it's looking. 

 

Sleepwalking in to the position where people cannot be "just gay" or "just lesbian". 

 

Instead, a young person could well get railroaded down the trans route. 

 

When in fact, talking about sexuality and that it's OK for a boy to fancy other boys and for a girl to fancy other girls... might be all that's needed. It's the 21st century FFS. 

 

But then that does not benefit the Trans Industry, does it?

 

And yeah... I find that the LBG Alliance talk a lot of sense (transphobic *******s!). 

Yes younger gay and lesbians who are struggling with their sexuality ( mainly due to external homophobia ) now have the added burden of being thought of as maybe trans.?  No MOST are not. Its only a small percentage of a small percentage.  However as you rightly state they will get rail roaded into thinking this as they are young and vulnerable.  They need non judgemental counselling which starts from the point that the young person is gay/lesbian and this needs completely validated. If other issues crop up via counselling so be it. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Kinda reminds me of this:

 

 

Partly in jest, but there doesn't seem to be a line anymore. SMH

very funny but sadly so true

59 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

It's a sorry state of affairs. 

 

But in Scotland, a vote for Sturgeons SNP is an endorsement  of this sort of nonsence. 

Yep.  its not  a vote winner so unsure why they are pursuing it ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

 

[ri Alban]

Gay, Lesbian Trans etc... All the same to me.

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

22 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Gay, Lesbian Trans etc... All the same to me.

What do you mean, all the same? 

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Gay, Lesbian Trans etc... All the same to me.

Not the same though are they.

Not by any stretch.

sexual orientation is a very different thing.

The ban on gay conversion therapy is good.

the ban on trans conversion therapy - not sure what is meant by that - does it mean not exploring gender dysphoria with young people to work out if they have it and move to unquestioned positive affirmations?

i don’t know.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

14 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes younger gay and lesbians who are struggling with their sexuality ( mainly due to external homophobia ) now have the added burden of being thought of as maybe trans.?  No MOST are not. Its only a small percentage of a small percentage.  However as you rightly state they will get rail roaded into thinking this as they are young and vulnerable.  They need non judgemental counselling which starts from the point that the young person is gay/lesbian and this needs completely validated. If other issues crop up via counselling so be it. 

Yip, counselling not surgery would be better IMO.

 

Proper help not pandering and the removal of science to validate their existence. 

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Gay, Lesbian Trans etc... All the same to me.