Trans athletes

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Not the same though are they.

Not by any stretch.

sexual orientation is a very different thing.

The ban on gay conversion therapy is good.

the ban on trans conversion therapy - not sure what is meant by that - does it mean not exploring gender dysphoria with young people to work out if they have it and move to unquestioned positive affirmations?

i don’t know.

 

Yes that’s the issue re trans conversion therapy . Therapists are meant to just completely accept a 10 years old kid saying “ they are in the wrong body “ they can’t explore issues regarding body dyphoria ( can’t spell it. ) self loathing , internalised homophobia etc . Ofcourse once any medical interventions  has began it can’t be reversed . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Yip, counselling not surgery would be better IMO.

 

Proper help not pandering and the removal of science to validate their existence. 

 

 

 

👍👍

[Ron Burgundy]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes that’s the issue re trans conversion therapy . Therapists are meant to just completely accept a 10 years old kid saying “ they are in the wrong body “ they can’t explore issues regarding body dyphoria ( can’t spell it. ) self loathing , internalised homophobia etc . Ofcourse once any medical interventions  has began it can’t be reversed . 

If a 10 year old comes out with that then I would  say they are mentally ill.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Ron Burgundy said:

If a 10 year old comes out with that then I would  say they are mentally ill.

 

I’d think they need counselling to explore why they are thinking like that . However there are some oddball parents out there ( admittedly not a lot ) who seem to be encouraging their children to be trans . It’s almost a badge of honour now. And there are definitely weirdos / oddballs on line ( grown predatory men identifying as women ) encouraging it . 

[CF11JamTart]

8 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Yip, counselling not surgery would be better IMO.

 

Proper help not pandering and the removal of science to validate their existence. 

 

 

 

But we're moving to a position where counselling could be interpretated as conversion therapy. 

 

Apparently if a child says "I'm trans..." the required response from school is meant to be one of affirmation and celebration. 

 

The wrong response is "do you want to have a chat about this?". 

[ri Alban]

A tiny, tiny minority with too much to say and an over inflated sense of entitlement. 

 

[I P Knightley]

On 02/04/2022 at 14:00, redjambo said:

 

Women's sport in general.

 

As athlete Ellie Baker said, "This is totally unfair. The advantages a trans women has had from going through puberty as a boy to a man can never been undone." And she is spot on. By all means allow folk to decide what gender they are, but allowing M->F transfolk to compete in women's sport is out of order. I still can't understand why M->F transfolk would even contemplate competing against non-trans women athletes. Surely they must see the physical advantage they have?

This is what I wonder as well. It seems to me similar to if I were to enter an under-12s boxing match. I'd be likely to win but where's the victory?

Do trans people really believe that they're on a level playing field? If they've been through gender reassignment, what is it that makes them feel that they now want to compete at the top level of women's sport? Were most of them trying to compete at a similar level in men's sport?

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

This is what I wonder as well. It seems to me similar to if I were to enter an under-12s boxing match. I'd be likely to win but where's the victory?

Do trans people really believe that they're on a level playing field? If they've been through gender reassignment, what is it that makes them feel that they now want to compete at the top level of women's sport? Were most of them trying to compete at a similar level in men's sport?

A  warped sense of being.  They believe themselves to be female therefore should play against other females.  

3 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Should be treated the same way as a kid who says I'm a goth or I'm going to be an astronaut. A smile, a nod and safely ignored until they mature a bit.

 

How any kid <12 years old can say they feel they have been assigned the wrong gender without adults having got into their head about it is beyond me.

Exactly.  Unfortunately they may have access to the internet where their views may be validated and encouraged by radical trans activists and creepy men * and some women. 

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

A  warped sense of being.  They believe themselves to be female therefore should play against other females.  

Exactly.  Unfortunately they may have access to the internet where their views may be validated and encouraged by radical trans activists and creepy men * and some women. 

Kids go through phases of insecurity, uncertainty and unhappiness where they experiment and don’t know what they are or where they fit in. They are immature.

they should be supported, though this is different to encouraged . Sure express yourself and experiment , but not make extreme life changing decisions - be that marriage/ gender etc.

see how they are as adults and go from there.

it’s why plastic surgery is a no in children if you feel upset about wee boobs , big nose etc.

adult decisions 

[JudyJudyJudy]

😂😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Kids go through phases of insecurity, uncertainty and unhappiness where they experiment and don’t know what they are or where they fit in. They are immature.

they should be supported, though this is different to encouraged . Sure express yourself and experiment , but not make extreme life changing decisions - be that marriage/ gender etc.

see how they are as adults and go from there.

it’s why plastic surgery is a no in children if you feel upset about wee boobs , big nose etc.

adult decisions 

Yep 👍 they also go through a rebellious / acting out stage at teenage years  ( Erickson theory of psycho social development)  years so will do / say anything to antagonise a parent or just get attention . 

[AlimOzturk]

Gay conversion therapy is rightly illegal as it goes against all science and modern understanding of the LGB community. Who someone forms a relationship has no real impact on the people participating or the wider society. 
 

However trans people are going go through a massive ordeal to get to “change sex” (they aren’t changing sex, simply making it look like the are) and rightly all forms of support and therapy should be there for them to talk about and make the judgement fall. It also impacts society as the NHS will have to the foot the medical bills and there is obviously moral and legal problems to overcome. 
 

 

[doctor jambo]

22 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Gay conversion therapy is rightly illegal as it goes against all science and modern understanding of the LGB community. Who someone forms a relationship has no real impact on the people participating or the wider society. 
 

However trans people are going go through a massive ordeal to get to “change sex” (they aren’t changing sex, simply making it look like the are) and rightly all forms of support and therapy should be there for them to talk about and make the judgement fall. It also impacts society as the NHS will have to the foot the medical bills and there is obviously moral and legal problems to overcome. 
 

 

The issue that the likes of lia Thomas was a lesbian trapped in a man’s body, and is now a female lesbian with a penis shows how far from understanding this issue all sectors of society are.

[jack D and coke]

The whole trans thing is baffling…

I have no idea what is going on with this at all. It keeps appearing on my twitter now too which I fecking CBA with. Why has it suddenly become this big issue?
I ended up reading a thread the other day where a young girl trans’d into a boy but is now a gay man?! All these terms too, terfs and CIS etc wtf is going on? I can read a tweet about trans a few times and honestly I have no idea what anyone is getting at. I don’t know who is labelling who what. Biological men walking about in womens changing rooms all tackle out now too?! The world has went fecking mad.

[JudyJudyJudy]

58 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Gay conversion therapy is rightly illegal as it goes against all science and modern understanding of the LGB community. Who someone forms a relationship has no real impact on the people participating or the wider society. 
 

However trans people are going go through a massive ordeal to get to “change sex” (they aren’t changing sex, simply making it look like the are) and rightly all forms of support and therapy should be there for them to talk about and make the judgement fall. It also impacts society as the NHS will have to the foot the medical bills and there is obviously moral and legal problems to overcome. 
 

 

Good posting 

[JudyJudyJudy]

30 minutes ago, jonesy said:

I think it all stemmed from a bursds telling her boyfriend that she wanted to be frank, and all got out of hand from there on after…

It stemmed from someone not taking them aside and informing them of basic biology the first first time woman they said they were the opposite sex / “ trapped in the wrong body. , imo . 

Edited April 5, 2022 by JamesM48

[Lord Montpelier]

49 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The whole trans thing is baffling…

I have no idea what is going on with this at all. It keeps appearing on my twitter now too which I fecking CBA with. Why has it suddenly become this big issue?
I ended up reading a thread the other day where a young girl trans’d into a boy but is now a gay man?! All these terms too, terfs and CIS etc wtf is going on? I can read a tweet about trans a few times and honestly I have no idea what anyone is getting at. I don’t know who is labelling who what. Biological men walking about in womens changing rooms all tackle out now too?! The world has went fecking mad.

Woke lefty politicians are in part to blame for giving oxygen to this sort of nonsence. Like our very own FM. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Woke lefty politicians are in part to blame for giving oxygen to this sort of nonsence. Like our very own FM. 

An “ over “ tolerance of ridiculousness is to be blame ? And a belief that it can’t be “ harmful “ really . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

28 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Woke lefty politicians are in part to blame for giving oxygen to this sort of nonsence. Like our very own FM. 

This is a great twitter thread explaining how we are now where we are 

 

 

 

[A Boy Named Crow]

9 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

😂😂

Quizzical Bear's strategy is just common sense in the bars of Bangkok...

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 minutes ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Quizzical Bear's strategy is just common sense in the bars of Bangkok...

Dunno never been to Thailand . That place seems mainly to be a place for sex tourism sadly . 

[A Boy Named Crow]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Dunno never been to Thailand . That place seems mainly to be a place for sex tourism sadly . 

It's a mixture, there are nice wee seaside towns, as well as the minging sex tourists.

 

Really, I find places like Malaysia are better to visit. Still a lot of cracking food, but not quite so much of the sleazy sex tourism.

 

To get back on point though.  The Twitter lassie that mentioned checking genitalia is a legit moron. Right now, today, it is not permitted for a drag queen (not a transitioned person, a man in drag) to cut about a ladies changing room. I live in an area of Sydney where there are a lot of drag queens, not all of them pantomime dame types either, some would take a second look to realise they were in fact blokes. 

 

Just because it might be tricky to police,  doesn't mean something should be permitted!

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

It's a mixture, there are nice wee seaside towns, as well as the minging sex tourists.

 

Really, I find places like Malaysia are better to visit. Still a lot of cracking food, but not quite so much of the sleazy sex tourism.

 

To get back on point though.  The Twitter lassie that mentioned checking genitalia is a legit moron. Right now, today, it is not permitted for a drag queen (not a transitioned person, a man in drag) to cut about a ladies changing room. I live in an area of Sydney where there are a lot of drag queens, not all of them pantomime dame types either, some would take a second look to realise they were in fact blokes. 

 

Just because it might be tricky to police,  doesn't mean something should be permitted!

Cool . If your male ie still got your bits and pieces then use the gents . It’s that simple really , or unisex bogs 

[Konrad von Carstein]

*Crocodile Dundee voice*

 

This!  Is a female swimmer!

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

*Crocodile Dundee voice*

 

This!  Is a female swimmer!

Even I know that’s a woman ! Unless she 

“ tucked “ 😂😂

[EH11_2NL]

https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/06/boris-johnson-says-biological-men-should-not-compete-in-female-sports-events-16416369/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

 

The one and only time I'll agree with this muppet.

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, EH11_2NL said:

https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/06/boris-johnson-says-biological-men-should-not-compete-in-female-sports-events-16416369/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

 

The one and only time I'll agree with this muppet.

 

I think everyone on this thread agrees with him on this matter.

[JudyJudyJudy]

30 minutes ago, EH11_2NL said:

https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/06/boris-johnson-says-biological-men-should-not-compete-in-female-sports-events-16416369/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

 

The one and only time I'll agree with this muppet.

well played Boris. 

[CF11JamTart]

25 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

well played Boris. 

Looking forward to Labour's reposte.

 

They are going large with the mantra that "trans women are women", so surely this an open goal for them

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

Looking forward to Labour's reposte.

 

They are going large with the mantra that "trans women are women", so surely this an open goal for them

It’s gonna be a massive own goal for them at the election. 

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, EH11_2NL said:

https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/06/boris-johnson-says-biological-men-should-not-compete-in-female-sports-events-16416369/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

 

The one and only time I'll agree with this muppet.

Yup, he's spot on. A broken clock is right twice a day mind.

[CF11JamTart]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

It’s gonna be a massive own goal for them at the election. 

Yup. They're boxing themselves in to a corner. 

 

This useless prime minister is at least flagging up "the emperor's new clothes" and the absurdity. 

 

Presumably Scottish Labour are trying keep a distance from the  Dawn Butler's of this world ("a child is born without sex"). 

[JudyJudyJudy]

28 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

Yup. They're boxing themselves in to a corner. 

 

This useless prime minister is at least flagging up "the emperor's new clothes" and the absurdity. 

 

Presumably Scottish Labour are trying keep a distance from the  Dawn Butler's of this world ("a child is born without sex"). 

Labour in Scotland are just as hopeless as those in England . To be Frank every party seem to be bloody hopeless . 

[John Findlay]

On 05/04/2022 at 15:56, JamesM48 said:

😂😂

Just do  what Crocodile Mick Dundee did in the movie.

[John Findlay]

Stonewall have released a statement in reply to Boris Johnson, calling Johnson's language inflammatory etc etc. Saying Trans people deserve the same opportunities as everyone else to enjoy sport, and barring trans men who have trans to a woman from competing against actual women, would make them give up playing sport blah blah blah.

Forgive my simple understanding here.

Men play against men.

Women play against women.

So why can't trans people play against each other? If they did that, they wouldn't have to give up playing sport.

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Stonewall have released a statement in reply to Boris Johnson, calling Johnson's language inflammatory etc etc. Saying Trans people deserve the same opportunities as everyone else to enjoy sport, and barring trans men who have trans to a woman from competing against actual women, would make them give up playing sport blah blah blah.

Forgive my simple understanding here.

Men play against men.

Women play against women.

So why can't trans people play against each other? If they did that, they wouldn't have to give up playing sport.

 

Because there's not enough of them, if there was they could have their own sports category, changing rooms, toilets, prisons, refuge homes etc.  

 

How about they get to compete but their results don't count, a bit like an amateur at the Masters 

[John Findlay]

Just now, graygo said:

 

 

How about they get to compete but their results don't count, a bit like an amateur at the Masters 

I would imagine that would cause an uproar from them. Its the winning that counts, not the taking part😉

[CF11JamTart]

3 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Stonewall have released a statement in reply to Boris Johnson, calling Johnson's language inflammatory etc etc. Saying Trans people deserve the same opportunities as everyone else to enjoy sport, and barring trans men who have trans to a woman from competing against actual women, would make them give up playing sport blah blah blah.

Forgive my simple understanding here.

Men play against men.

Women play against women.

So why can't trans people play against each other? If they did that, they wouldn't have to give up playing sport.

 

They didn't hang about with a response.

 

I GET that if one's whole identity is based around being a woman, when you are biologically Sex = Male, not being allowed to compete as Sex = Female must be very challenging emotionally and psychologically.

 

But going through male puberty gives enduring physical advantages for many sports.

 

If you've been through male puberty, you should compete against other competitors who have been through male puberty. 

 

You cannot always reconcile the three basic factors of Safety, Inclusion and Fairness. 

 

 

[CF11JamTart]

6 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I would imagine that would cause an uproar from them. Its the winning that counts, not the taking part😉

I love that. Bravo, sir. 

 

Why on earth someone who is sex=male would want to "compete" against people who haven't been through male puberty is beyond me. Unless it's for ego, prize money, sponsorship, scholarships. 

 

I'll challenge my wife to 100m sprint and give myself a pat in the back when I win by about 20m. Well done me! What an athlete I am. 

Edited April 6, 2022 by CF11JamTart

[Ron Burgundy]

3 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Because there's not enough of them, if there was they could have their own sports category, changing rooms, toilets, prisons, refuge homes etc.  

 

How about they get to compete but their results don't count, a bit like an amateur at the Masters 

I don't think that would appease them. They see themselves as every bit a woman as a biological one.

[CF11JamTart]

3 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I don't think that would appease them. They see themselves as every bit a woman as a biological one.

Gender is everything. 

Biological sex is a myth. 

 

Bosh! 

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Stonewall have released a statement in reply to Boris Johnson, calling Johnson's language inflammatory etc etc. Saying Trans people deserve the same opportunities as everyone else to enjoy sport, and barring trans men who have trans to a woman from competing against actual women, would make them give up playing sport blah blah blah.

Forgive my simple understanding here.

Men play against men.

Women play against women.

So why can't trans people play against each other? If they did that, they wouldn't have to give up playing sport.

The problem is there is no debate with the militant trans lobby . Trans women are women . It’s their mantra . Therefore no discussion is allowed . If it is your labelled transphobic either on social media or in real life . Stonewall are becoming less influential by the day . I read an interesting article stating that stonewall are only involved with trans issues as most gay / lesbian issues have been sorted ( equality , gay marriage etc) so they need to have a new fight 

[CF11JamTart]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

The problem is there is no debate with the militant trans lobby . Trans women are women . It’s their mantra . Therefore no discussion is allowed . If it is your labelled transphobic either on social media or in real life . Stonewall are becoming less influential by the day . I read an interesting article stating that stonewall are only involved with trans issues as most gay / lesbian issues have been sorted ( equality , gay marriage etc) so they need to have a new fight 

The St George syndrome. He's killed the dragon. What does he do with his time now? 

[John Findlay]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

The problem is there is no debate with the militant trans lobby . Trans women are women . It’s their mantra . Therefore no discussion is allowed . If it is your labelled transphobic either on social media or in real life . Stonewall are becoming less influential by the day . I read an interesting article stating that stonewall are only involved with trans issues as most gay / lesbian issues have been sorted ( equality , gay marriage etc) so they need to have a new fight 

I guess Peter Tatchell still has to justify his relevance. Some just love the media spotlight.

[CF11JamTart]

Just now, John Findlay said:

I guess Peter Tatchell still has to justify his relevance. Some just love the media spotlight.

And Stonewall have to justify their existence. 

And presumably their staff have bills to pay. 

[Ron Burgundy]

7 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

Gender is everything. 

Biological sex is a myth. 

 

Bosh! 

Yip, feelings over facts.

[graygo]

The problem is there is no debate with the militant anti-trans lobby. Trans women are men. It's their mantra. Therefore no discussion is allowed. 

 

Stonewall would be better closing down now that the gays and lesbians have everything they want, other minority groups can gtf.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I guess Peter Tatchell still has to justify his relevance. Some just love the media spotlight.

Yes he was. A respected gay activist who is now down the rabbit hole of trans rights . I just struggle to get my head around why LGB have become involved in this issue . I can only surmise is to feel relevant as you say about Tatchell . Why not attach to black rights ? Disabled rights ? I

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

And Stonewall have to justify their existence. 

And presumably their staff have bills to pay. 

Yes that too . 

[graygo]

15 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I would imagine that would cause an uproar from them. Its the winning that counts, not the taking part😉

 

They can still "win", they just don't go home with the prize. Just like the amateur golfer at the majors. (Actually not sure that still applies but it did)