***Summer 2021 Transfer Window - Barrie McKay signs 2 year deal ***

[Debut 4]

1 hour ago, Bickfest said:

The problem is, and you know it, they won't. If the team doesn't do well it's Neilson's fault, if it does it's to the players' credit.

I’ve never believed that.  The last sentence.  
 

Managers get awards. Fans in the pubs and clubs before and after the game will laud the manager as much as the players when things are going well.

 

In poor moments or periods, certainly the finger will be pointed more in the managers direction but fans will still bemoan any players not stepping up to the plate. Normally anything that happens is borne out of the managers actions. 
 

It’s clear he’s doing a good job if the form is good and players spirits are high. An extended run of bad form starts to point to something fundamentally wrong with the management and environment the players are working in.   Something the highers at the club couldn’t recognise a few years ago. 

[luckydug]

8 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

I’ve never believed that.  The last sentence.  
 

Managers get awards. Fans in the pubs and clubs before and after the game will laud the manager as much as the players when things are going well.

 

In poor moments or periods, certainly the finger will be pointed more in the managers direction but fans will still bemoan any players not stepping up to the plate. Normally anything that happens is borne out of the managers actions. 
 

It’s clear he’s doing a good job if the form is good and players spirits are high. An extended run of bad form starts to point to something fundamentally wrong with the management and environment the players are working in.   Something the highers at the club couldn’t recognise a few years ago. 

I think with Robbie it's different. 

Some seem to have taken a personal dislike to him. 

It's like a bit of a witch hunt tbh. 

I suppose the only way we will find out is if we get of to a flyer and the abuse continues. 

[Tommy Brown]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

I can only really speak for myself and fwiw I didn’t want him to go when he left for MK Dons. Tbh though, I still thought we’d push on as a club after he left and the fact we didn’t isn’t down to him being a fantastic manager but down to terrible decision making by the board. 
 

As for Robbie this time round, I saw enough last season to convince me he’s not good enough. Stubbornly sticking to failing formations, an obviously poor partnership in midfield, failing to solve the issues of being very vulnerable to counter attacks including simple balls over the top and leaving attacking players all but isolated. He done more than enough t0 get us promoted and winning enough games to win any league is never a given but I don’t think he is the person to take us forward. 
 

 

Spot on. GR

[jamboj]

30 minutes ago, AndyNic said:

Wonder what the compensation amount is.

 

I'd hazard a guess at <£100k purely on the basis that I can't see QotS being able to afford upwards of tnah figure.

I'd be shocked if Queens have more than £1.49 and a bag of Maltesers to pay in compensation. 

 

Would be interested to know how these things work, cause can't believe clubs in lower leagues in Scotland have funds for fees

[chrisg8]

Have we signed anyone or ?

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

1 minute ago, chrisg8 said:

Have we signed anyone or ?

It's a secret 

[jr ewing]

38 minutes ago, luckydug said:

I think with Robbie it's different. 

Some seem to have taken a personal dislike to him. 

It's like a bit of a witch hunt tbh. 

I suppose the only way we will find out is if we get of to a flyer and the abuse continues. 

Nothing personal, we just think he's not very good.

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, kila said:

 

 

Good luck to Harry. 

[Cruyff]

I feel for Robbie. I know folk don't like him for whatever reason but I like the guy, I liked him as a player but I feel that if he doesn't get the players he needs folk are waiting to pounce. 

[pointon]

George Edmundson of Rangers apparently signed a three year deal with an unnamed club would he be on our radar?

[bazman]

5 minutes ago, pointon said:

George Edmundson of Rangers apparently signed a three year deal with an unnamed club would he be on our radar?

Was on loan at derby end of the season he will probably head back to England 

[Martin]

I don't understand the need for some to moan about Neilson on seemingly every thread and every page. Or the need to bring up a certain result at every single opportunity. 

 

For what it's worth, I think he should have gone after the Brora game but why does he carry the can for all blame? In that game, we had Halkett, Haring, McEneff, Mackay-Steven, Walker, Gnanduillet all starting and Boyce on at half time. Some of these are our best players and most fans rate the majority of them. Yet if they score a goal or do something positive in other games, the same folk aren't then turning round and saying that's all well and good but why did they not do it against Brora. 

 

The constant negativity towards Neilson is tedious. If we start the season poorly or have a poor season he will be sacked. This isn't going to be like Levein in that no matter what happens, he is safe. But at the start of a season where everyone has been through a terrible time in the past 16 months, where we have been prevented from going to games, folk still want to moan. Yes Neilson's cup record as manager is very poor, but in league terms he's won the championship twice at first time of asking, finished 3rd in the Premier and left when we were 2nd, what more realistically can he do in the league up till now?

 

Signings are needed and I have no doubt that we will get a few before the deadline, but if not, it gives youngsters a chance and I would much rather that than seeing useless journeymen signed for the sake of it - an approach that has greatly harmed the club for 4 or 5 years now. 

 

In recent times, we have had 3 disastrous appointments as manager - Cathro, Levein and Stendel - for various reasons. Yet Neilson seems to get more stick than any of them despite the other 3 utterly failing and ultimately being the reason why we have wasted the last five years.

[iainmac]

6 minutes ago, Martin said:

I don't understand the need for some to moan about Neilson on seemingly every thread and every page. Or the need to bring up a certain result at every single opportunity. 

 

For what it's worth, I think he should have gone after the Brora game but why does he carry the can for all blame? In that game, we had Halkett, Haring, McEneff, Mackay-Steven, Walker, Gnanduillet all starting and Boyce on at half time. Some of these are our best players and most fans rate the majority of them. Yet if they score a goal or do something positive in other games, the same folk aren't then turning round and saying that's all well and good but why did they not do it against Brora. 

 

The constant negativity towards Neilson is tedious. If we start the season poorly or have a poor season he will be sacked. This isn't going to be like Levein in that no matter what happens, he is safe. But at the start of a season where everyone has been through a terrible time in the past 16 months, where we have been prevented from going to games, folk still want to moan. Yes Neilson's cup record as manager is very poor, but in league terms he's won the championship twice at first time of asking, finished 3rd in the Premier and left when we were 2nd, what more realistically can he do in the league up till now?

 

Signings are needed and I have no doubt that we will get a few before the deadline, but if not, it gives youngsters a chance and I would much rather that than seeing useless journeymen signed for the sake of it - an approach that has greatly harmed the club for 4 or 5 years now. 

 

In recent times, we have had 3 disastrous appointments as manager - Cathro, Levein and Stendel - for various reasons. Yet Neilson seems to get more stick than any of them despite the other 3 utterly failing and ultimately being the reason why we have wasted the last five years.

 

Possibly for presiding over 3 of the biggest embarrassments in living memory? 

 

Just a thought. 

[jamboinglasgow]

3 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

Possibly for presiding over 3 of the biggest embarrassments in living memory? 

 

Just a thought. 

 

apart from Brora Rangers (which we can all agree on) what other games you talking about? As if it is the Alloa game (though poor) is no where near the most embarressing game, same with the Europa league game against the Malta team. But I guess its easier to turn bad games into worst games ever, as I have seen plenty of disasters for Hearts in games.

[HMFC 86]

2 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

We switched to a 3-4-3 and have barely conceded a goal since. Is that not the exact opposite of what you have said here?

 

 

2 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

So he changed the system and stopped us conceding goals. Why not see how the new 3-4-3 system actually works against Premiership opponents before pishing the bed?

Lost 2-0 to Sunderland. Maybe time for you to stop spouting shite

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, AndyNic said:

Wonder what the compensation amount is.

 

I'd hazard a guess at <£100k purely on the basis that I can't see QotS being able to afford upwards of tnah figure.

 

I'm amazed they can afford any fee never mind £100k.

[iainmac]

2 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

apart from Brora Rangers (which we can all agree on) what other games you talking about? As if it is the Alloa game (though poor) is no where near the most embarressing game, same with the Europa league game against the Malta team. But I guess its easier to turn bad games into worst games ever, as I have seen plenty of disasters for Hearts in games.

 

All 3 results weren't big embarrassments? 

 

Seriously? 

[GinRummy]

18 minutes ago, Martin said:

I don't understand the need for some to moan about Neilson on seemingly every thread and every page. Or the need to bring up a certain result at every single opportunity. 

 

For what it's worth, I think he should have gone after the Brora game but why does he carry the can for all blame? In that game, we had Halkett, Haring, McEneff, Mackay-Steven, Walker, Gnanduillet all starting and Boyce on at half time. Some of these are our best players and most fans rate the majority of them. Yet if they score a goal or do something positive in other games, the same folk aren't then turning round and saying that's all well and good but why did they not do it against Brora. 

 

The constant negativity towards Neilson is tedious. If we start the season poorly or have a poor season he will be sacked. This isn't going to be like Levein in that no matter what happens, he is safe. But at the start of a season where everyone has been through a terrible time in the past 16 months, where we have been prevented from going to games, folk still want to moan. Yes Neilson's cup record as manager is very poor, but in league terms he's won the championship twice at first time of asking, finished 3rd in the Premier and left when we were 2nd, what more realistically can he do in the league up till now?

 

Signings are needed and I have no doubt that we will get a few before the deadline, but if not, it gives youngsters a chance and I would much rather that than seeing useless journeymen signed for the sake of it - an approach that has greatly harmed the club for 4 or 5 years now. 

 

In recent times, we have had 3 disastrous appointments as manager - Cathro, Levein and Stendel - for various reasons. Yet Neilson seems to get more stick than any of them despite the other 3 utterly failing and ultimately being the reason why we have wasted the last five years.

None of the three you mentioned had the much easier job of managing us in the championship. Levein took way more stick than Neilson has since he came back. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by GinRummy

[Martin]

2 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

Possibly for presiding over 3 of the biggest embarrassments in living memory? 

 

Just a thought. 

They were all embarrassing and all should never have happened. Players have to take their fair share of the blame too. 

 

Some of the stats that Cathro and Levein had over a period of time were results that totally dragged us down, it could be argued they were worse because it showed how bad a job they were doing. If its specific results, losing to Peterhead under Cathro was worse than Alloa last season. 

 

Stendel took us to the bottom of the league, won 2 out of 14 league games and didn't beat a bottom 6 team. Yet is treated on here by some folk as if he did a great job.

[Martin]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

None of the three you mentioned had the much easier jib of managing us in the championship. Levein took way more stick than Neilson has since he came back. 

Even taking the Championship out of it, look at how Neilson did in the Premier league over an 18 month period, compared to Cathro, Levein and Stendel. Those three did a shocking job. 

 

If Levein has taken more stick, it's more to do with the abysmal job he did off the park with signings, contracts and the unprofessional way he ran things.

 

I'm not saying Neilson is a good manager and as I've already said I think he should have gone after Brora, but the previous 3 managers have all been worse for us.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Martin

[chrisg8]

1 hour ago, The Maroon Pound said:

It's a secret 

If we don't sign anyone we will finish bottom six, same team as last season shite

[jamboinglasgow]

1 minute ago, iainmac said:

 

All 3 results weren't big embarrassments? 

 

Seriously? 

 

Yes, seriously.

 

I saw Hearts lose to Airdrie at home in a match we should have walked with big signing Obua missing a penalty at Tynecastle, that was two divisions below us. That was more embaressing then losing to a team in extra time (who we should have beat) but was in the same division as us. Thats the first one off the top of my head. 

[chrisg8]

1 hour ago, luckydug said:

A thoroughly entertaining(mis) match. A right good laugh 😂. 

How can we laugh we couldn't even score against a team in the 3rd flight of English football 

[iainmac]

1 minute ago, Martin said:

They were all embarrassing and all should never have happened. Players have to take their fair share of the blame too. 

 

Some of the stats that Cathro and Levein had over a period of time were results that totally dragged us down, it could be argued they were worse because it showed how bad a job they were doing. If its specific results, losing to Peterhead under Cathro was worse than Alloa last season. 

 

Stendel took us to the bottom of the league, won 2 out of 14 league games and didn't beat a bottom 6 team. Yet is treated on here by some folk as if he did a great job.

 

Cathro & (eventually) Levein got plenty of stick on here. Stendel tried to change the way we played, dished out a few home truths, wasn't here very long & also had victories over Hibs & Rangers in the credit column. 

 

People didn't suddenly wake up one morning & start getting on Neilson's back. It's driven by results & some eye bleeding performances. 

 

Personality, I was ambivalent about him coming back because, first time in the Championship, I was happy with him but I want him out now. 

[HMFC 86]

2 hours ago, martoon said:

 

Aye, whilst also self proclaiming themselves as the PHM. 

 

Whilst moaning constantly doesn't make an uber fan, neither does quietly accepting mediocrity and shite.  

 

 

And being noisy and insulting and accepting mediocrity and shite

[iainmac]

2 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Yes, seriously.

 

I saw Hearts lose to Airdrie at home in a match we should have walked with big signing Obua missing a penalty at Tynecastle, that was two divisions below us. That was more embaressing then losing to a team in extra time (who we should have beat) but was in the same division as us. Thats the first one off the top of my head. 

 

My post said "3 of the biggest embarrassments" not THE 3 biggest embarrassments. 

 

Birkirkara, Alloa & Brora are certainly 3 in the biggest category. 

[HMFC 86]

2 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

My post said "3 of the biggest embarrassments" not THE 3 biggest embarrassments. 

 

Birkirkara, Alloa & Brora are certainly 3 in the biggest category. 

And that’s even without mentioning the hubz cup match, that we are not allowed to mention, or hold against Neilson

[Cruyff]

3 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

My post said "3 of the biggest embarrassments" not THE 3 biggest embarrassments. 

 

Birkirkara, Alloa & Brora are certainly 3 in the biggest category. 

What's done is done. We can't change the past. Hopefully, it never happens ever againm

[iainmac]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

What's done is done. We can't change the past. Hopefully, it never happens ever againm

 

Indeed but I was responding to a poster who was wondering why Neilson got stick on here. 

[Cruyff]

We've got an alright team but we need a Centerhalf and a central mid absolute minimum. There's no danger in a month of Sundays can we allow Hibs to a) dominate Derby's and finish above us. We are feckin Heart of Midlothian Football Club, it is about time everyone started acting like it. 

[Cruyff]

Just now, iainmac said:

 

Indeed but I was responding to a poster who was wondering why Neilson got stick on here. 

Fair enough brother. 👍

[Martin]

1 minute ago, iainmac said:

 

Cathro & (eventually) Levein got plenty of stick on here. Stendel tried to change the way we played, dished out a few home truths, wasn't here very long & also had victories over Hibs & Rangers in the credit column. 

 

People didn't suddenly wake up one morning & start getting on Neilson's back. It's driven by results & some eye bleeding performances. 

 

Personality, I was ambivalent about him coming back because, first time in the Championship, I was happy with him but I want him out now. 

The damage that Cathro and Levein did set us back years. I can't agree with Stendel because although yes he beat Hibs and Rangers, his style of football was crazy with the players we had because we didn't have the players to play it. Ironically if he had been more sensible and tried to grind out some results we probably would have stayed up. With talking of eye bleeding football and embarrassments, any fan that was at the defeat against St Mirren which ultimately cost us, would say that was one of the most embarrassing and gutless Hearts performances they have seen. The home draw against Hamilton was another pathetic one.

 

You mention Stendel getting credit for beating Hibs but Neilson did the same in the semi final last season.

 

I get that he isn't going to win over some fans and there are some results that could justify it, but it's the endless discussions about results in the past that has nothing to do with potential new signings.

[Martin]

2 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

Indeed but I was responding to a poster who was wondering why Neilson got stick on here. 

I understand why he gets stick, but I don't understand why people continue to talk about results from last season in a transfer thread. I'm obviously not just meaning yourself, but it's frustrating when you see more pages on a transfer thread, hope something has happened on that front, but then it's another 3 pages of people moaning about Neilson or results from the past. 

 

I realise I have added more onto that discussion, so apologies!

[BackOfTheNet]

So apparently Celtic had a bit of a nightmare and were a shambles against West Ham. A friendly yes, but Celtic go away in Europe on Wednesday and have to come back and play us at Tynecastle on the Saturday night. This is actually one of the best opportunities for us to beat them that I can remember.

 

Many, including myself, see those two as a free hit (which is why it’s so annoying we go into those games so cautiously, but that’s another debate). Many have said that getting signings in before the Celtic game is irrelevant as it’s more important to get them in for the games after with that mindset. But unless Celtic play unexpectedly well in Denmark on Wednesday I have to say if we don’t beat Celtic on Saturday it could go down as an opportunity missed. If we were able to sign one or two good first team players two or three weeks ago that had a run up to next Saturday under their belts with the team, it would’ve even increased our chances more.

 

We could, of course, still beat them next week. Just can’t help thinking this is the best opportunity we had for a while. I remember they had a bit of lag from Europe when we beat them 1-0 with the Lafferty half volley, felt something was lining up nicely then too.

[iainmac]

4 minutes ago, Martin said:

The damage that Cathro and Levein did set us back years. I can't agree with Stendel because although yes he beat Hibs and Rangers, his style of football was crazy with the players we had because we didn't have the players to play it. Ironically if he had been more sensible and tried to grind out some results we probably would have stayed up. With talking of eye bleeding football and embarrassments, any fan that was at the defeat against St Mirren which ultimately cost us, would say that was one of the most embarrassing and gutless Hearts performances they have seen. The home draw against Hamilton was another pathetic one.

 

You mention Stendel getting credit for beating Hibs but Neilson did the same in the semi final last season.

 

I get that he isn't going to win over some fans and there are some results that could justify it, but it's the endless discussions about results in the past that has nothing to do with potential new signings.

 

I agree with the bit in bold. 

 

That credit for beating Hibs in ET probably dissipated after our 1st half display in the Final, which was shocking. 

 

Anyway, I'm not defending Stendel, I only offered reasons why he might not have got as much stick on here as the other 3.. 

[iainmac]

5 minutes ago, Martin said:

I understand why he gets stick, but I don't understand why people continue to talk about results from last season in a transfer thread. I'm obviously not just meaning yourself, but it's frustrating when you see more pages on a transfer thread, hope something has happened on that front, but then it's another 3 pages of people moaning about Neilson or results from the past. 

 

I realise I have added more onto that discussion, so apologies!

 

Easy solution would be to sign someone! 😜

[Cruyff]

Robbie needs Joe to get some signings done or he's working with a hand tied behind his back. 

[karipidis]

30 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

apart from Brora Rangers (which we can all agree on) what other games you talking about? As if it is the Alloa game (though poor) is no where near the most embarressing game, same with the Europa league game against the Malta team. But I guess its easier to turn bad games into worst games ever, as I have seen plenty of disasters for Hearts in games.

You can maybe get away with the Europa league game, early in season, unknown etc but the Alloa result was one of our worst in recent times, until Brora….

[Mr Elwood P]

29 minutes ago, HMFC 86 said:

 

 

Lost 2-0 to Sunderland. Maybe time for you to stop spouting shite

Friendlies don’t count silly. 

[pointon]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Robbie needs Joe to get some signings done or he's working with a hand tied behind his back. 

That is very true

[Toxteth O'Grady]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Robbie needs Joe to get some signings done or he's working with a hand tied behind his back. 

I don’t rate Neilson but that’s a fact. The non playing staff who are involved in recruitment need to earn their corn.

[martoon]

23 minutes ago, HMFC 86 said:

And being noisy and insulting and accepting mediocrity and shite

 

Aye.

 

That too. 😄

[Martin]

5 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

I agree with the bit in bold. 

 

That credit for beating Hibs in ET probably dissipated after our 1st half display in the Final, which was shocking. 

 

Anyway, I'm not defending Stendel, I only offered reasons why he might not have got as much stick on here as the other 3.. 

We were definitely far too timid in the 1st half of the final and gave them far too much respect. The result v Brora was horrendous and embarrassing but that final is one that haunts me more, to have been 2 kicks away against them and having gifted them a 2 goal lead, if we had won that final it would have gone down as one of our greatest ever achievements. 

[Martin]

4 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

Easy solution would be to sign someone! 😜

It would definitely make things a lot more interesting, think we are all going a bit stir crazy!

 

Having said that, I still fear we have more than a week to wait, if it's down to a player settling with a previous team.

[Debut 4]

25 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Robbie needs Joe to get some signings done or he's working with a hand tied behind his back. 

Indeed. Just a couple of weeks ago we talked of how there may be a proper chain of command developing, a clear responsibility and accountability we haven’t seemed to have before now. 
 

We spoke of how the manager has the responsibility to produce results if he’s provided with a better calibre of players but likewise Neilson at the moment can open his arms bemusement at not being provided with such players at this point. That could all change of course with one toot of the klaxon at any time but the ball certainly seems to be in Savage’s court just now.

 

That doesn’t mean the manager can rest and use a lack of quality as an excuse not to get the most from what he has, but it’s maybe putting more clarity between the roles at the club and the necessity for each person to do their job thoroughly?  New faces and a more “strictly business” type environment as opposed to the old pals act.   

[BackOfTheNet]

Since Stendel was brought up seems he had a tough first league game with Nancy away to Pau today. 1-0 and a man sent off by half time. Brought it back to 1-1 (Thiam, who he tried to sign for us but Barnsley played about or the signing department at Tynecastle didn’t get it over the line equalised) Ended up losing 2-1 with a goal in the 93rd minute.

[daveyhmfc]

Should just rename this thread the Alex Cochrane thread.

[Cruyff]

10 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Indeed. Just a couple of weeks ago we talked of how there may be a proper chain of command developing, a clear responsibility and accountability we haven’t seemed to have before now. 
 

We spoke of how the manager has the responsibility to produce results if he’s provided with a better calibre of players but likewise Neilson at the moment can open his arms bemusement at not being provided with such players at this point. That could all change of course with one toot of the klaxon at any time but the ball certainly seems to be in Savage’s court just now.

 

That doesn’t mean the manager can rest and use a lack of quality as an excuse not to get the most from what he has, but it’s maybe putting more clarity between the roles at the club and the necessity for each person to do their job thoroughly?  New faces and a more “strictly business” type environment as opposed to the old pals act.   

Yep, It's not an excuse but it wouldn't matter who the manager was when we are operating with a SD. At the end of the day, it is the SD responsibility to sign the players. If the manager doesn't get the players he needs then he is open to criticism and some of that may not be entirely warranted if he is getting the best out of what he has. 

[iainmac]

Just now, daveyhmfc said:

Should just rename this thread the Alex Cochrane thread.

 

"Alex Cochrane - loan ends" 😜

[Kiwidoug]

Just now, daveyhmfc said:

Should just rename this thread the Alex Cochrane thread.

Might even have to name the stand the Alex Cochrane stand.

 

I'm getting depressed.  Does nobody want to play for us?