New manager incoming ( merged )

[ri Alban]

23 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

In his first spell, yes, you could argue that but in all fairness the first spell he had is in the past, and consigned to the history books 

 

It’s not like he hasn’t at least been given a chance. He has had all season, plus the cup runs. In all honesty the championship has been piss poor. We have had no competition with all the teams, outside of us, a much of a muchness 

 

next year will be a big step up - no question we will be playing better teams - we showed it in one off games Vs the hobos and septic, but this year, overall, we have struggled to beat or have been beaten by vastly inferior opposition. I just don’t believe that Neilson has what it takes - the thing that I struggle with is performances from some of his signings 

 

Bottom line is that he has presided over some of the worst results in our history and it has only took him less than a year to achieve that feat 

 

Kingsley, Gnando, frear, Roberts, kasteneer,  Halliday not done anything worth of note. The minute Roberts moves to Motherwell he starts to show signs of what he can do.
 

Far too much risk continuing with RN and I don’t think that because of what he done with his first spell is a good enough reason to continue with him at the helm 

You have to also ask why Roberts wasn't doing and maybe his attitude at Hearts was a factor he was put out on loan. 

[lost in space]

Just now, davemclaren said:

This years accounts will be an interesting read for every club. We had the double hit of a pandemic and demotion to contend with. 

Yes, like Partick and Stranraer who have not gone bust.

With the 1 million from the government + regular money from the bbc i can't imagine we received much less than most Prem clubs.

Not sure if we got a parachute payment- don't remember it being mentioned.

Will be interesting to compare our accounts with Prem clubs.

Kingantti makes a good point - we would not be in such a bad financial position if we had not wasted millions.

[milky_26]

Just now, lost in space said:

Yes, like Partick and Stranraer who have not gone bust.

With the 1 million from the government + regular money from the bbc i can't imagine we received much less than most Prem clubs.

Not sure if we got a parachute payment- don't remember it being mentioned.

Will be interesting to compare our accounts with Prem clubs.

Kingantti makes a good point - we would not be in such a bad financial position if we had not wasted millions.

im not sure we got any money from the bbc for being on tv. someone will correct me but i think most of that still goes to teams in the top flight even though they were not shown on the bbc

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

You have to also ask why Roberts wasn't doing and maybe his attitude at Hearts was a factor he was put out on loan. 

The wider question is why do so many players come to Hearts and regress. 

[Hashimoto]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

 

Definitely NOT a RN apologist.  Just someone who is tired of your persistent negative shite which makes me wonder.

You know where the ignore button is......😉

"Makes you wonder"....You don't come across as one of life's great thinkers!

[ri Alban]

Just now, GinRummy said:

The wider question is why do so many players come to Hearts and regress. 

They don't really, do they. Most are coming up a level or six and don't really cut the mustard. I don't see that as Robbie's fault. Next year will be a better and fairer time to judge him. Normality and better competitors will make the players and everyone at Hearts including the fans, drop this self righteous, and sense of entitlement. When did this kick in. BTW? 

[Auldbenches]

18 minutes ago, lost in space said:

Are they really though? Other clubs don't have this finance and they have ALL survived.

Some posters are happy to play the 'it will kill the club's card if some pledges decide to stop until budge is gone.  If the cl8b need this money in normal times then it isn't being run well.  

 

[GinRummy]

8 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

They don't really, do they. Most are coming up a level or six and don't really cut the mustard. I don't see that as Robbie's fault. Next year will be a better and fairer time to judge him. Normality and better competitors will make the players and everyone at Hearts including the fans, drop this self righteous, and sense of entitlement. When did this kick in. BTW? 

I wasn’t talking about Robbie and I hardly think coming to second tier Scottish football would be a step up for many. Whelan, Uche, Kingsley, Halkett and Roberts just a few examples of players who have either failed to make any impression at all or started well and regressed. There are more. 
 

Wanting a comparable product on the pitch to the money invested isn’t entitlement either. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by GinRummy

[NANOJAMBO]

6 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

They don't really, do they. Most are coming up a level or six and don't really cut the mustard. I don't see that as Robbie's fault. Next year will be a better and fairer time to judge him. Normality and better competitors will make the players and everyone at Hearts including the fans, drop this self righteous, and sense of entitlement. When did this kick in. BTW? 

What ?

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Auldbenches said:

There's no money co I g in at the moment but people are accused of killing the club if they choose to withhold or withdraw their donations.  These are supposed to be on top of the club being self sufficient.  

The club shouldn't be run with the money from donations, this is a bonus. 

If the club would die without the foh money then it isn't being run well.  

 

Agreed. But given the financial difficulties all clubs are having a decision to give two years pay to 3/4 guys on the coaching staff seems to be a big call. 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Jambo61 said:

Heard of season tickets?
Heard of lower costs, less policing/ stewards etc?

A lot of the money did come in, a subsidy from last year as the season wasn;t played out!

You oversimplify!

Season ticket money was all gone months ago. 

[martoon]

1 hour ago, mitch41 said:

Will this be Robbie Neilson’s last game managing Hearts on Friday at Starks Park ?

 

 

Fingers crossed.

 

"Thanks Boab, it's been a blast, we'll call you when we're back in the Championship". 

[The Real Maroonblood]

37 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

The wider question is why do so many players come to Hearts and regress. 

Neilson is the correct answer.

[Beni]

18 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Season ticket money was all gone months ago. 

 

That's what happens when you're chucking it about like confetti to bring back a manager of Neilson's calibre.

To be fair we probably recouped that outlay with lucrative cup runs.

Oh, wait...

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, fancy a brew said:

 

That's what happens when you're chucking it about like confetti to bring back a manager of Neilson's calibre.

To be fair we probably recouped that outlay with lucrative cup runs.

Oh, wait...

Sad but true.

[JamboAl]

57 minutes ago, Hashimoto said:

You know where the ignore button is......😉

"Makes you wonder"....You don't come across as one of life's great thinkers!

Sorry, Aristotle.  I try my best.

Re the ignore button, that's a non starter.  Need to see the rubbish you post for a good laugh.

[Hashimoto]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Sorry, Aristotle.  I try my best.

Re the ignore button, that's a non starter.  Need to see the rubbish you post for a good laugh.

😘

 

[Jodami]

Neilson was never going to be emptied, there is not a chance Budge would do that and the appropriate moment was after Brora anyway. It boils down to whether you want to buy a season tickets to watch the turgid shit with no guarantee of seeing any more than a third of the games at Tynecastle next season.

[Mars plastic]

58 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Season ticket money was all gone months ago. 

And you know this how?

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Neilson was never going to be emptied, there is not a chance Budge would do that and the appropriate moment was after Brora anyway. It boils down to whether you want to buy a season tickets to watch the turgid shit with no guarantee of seeing any more than a third of the games at Tynecastle next season.

It’s a rather depressing thought.

[Auldbenches]

4 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

And you know this how?

It's some inside info if he isn't speculating...

[fabienleclerq]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

This years accounts will be an interesting read for every club. We had the double hit of a pandemic and demotion to contend with. 

Would the "double hit" not be affected by lack of crowds? 

[Mars plastic]

2 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

It's some inside info if he isn't speculating...

He's a slaister.

[Rods]

 

2 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Neilson was never going to be emptied, there is not a chance Budge would do that and the appropriate moment was after Brora anyway. It boils down to whether you want to buy a season tickets to watch the turgid shit with no guarantee of seeing any more than a third of the games at Tynecastle next season.

I actually think that Neilson will see us have a decent home record next season.

 

His abilty to get an away performance from the team and also the chance of winning cup games will see the end of him by Christmas.

 

Probably have a similar effect as his mentors(CL) first time in charge. What him and budge don’t get is a lot of fans don’t remember that era. 

[OTT]

1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Working for Ann Budge seems to be like working in a public sector job with similar levels of performance and job protection.

 

 

 

Council workers probably in more fear for their jobs tbh. 

[ford donald]

1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Working for Ann Budge seems to be like working in a public sector job with similar levels of performance and job protection.

 

Yes,mediocre.

[Auldbenches]

1 minute ago, Mars plastic said:

He's a slaister.

They've been using the club dying as emotional blackmail when fans have said they will hold back donations when this money isn't about keeping the club going. 

Budge has already said she would like a free hand in deciding how to spent the foh money.  Aye right! 

[Mars plastic]

1 minute ago, Auldbenches said:

They've been using the club dying as emotional blackmail when fans have said they will hold back donations when this money isn't about keeping the club going. 

Budge has already said she would like a free hand in deciding how to spent the foh money.  Aye right! 

The club should be just as sustainable as any others who don't get chucked £150K a month from their fans.

[Auldbenches]

1 minute ago, Mars plastic said:

The club should be just as sustainable as any others who don't get chucked £150K a month from their fans.

Hopefully the end of sone posters saying them protesting through foh donations will kill the club.  

It's the board to blame if this money is required in normal seasons. 

 

[Hashimoto]

Just now, Auldbenches said:

Hopefully the end of sone posters saying them protesting through foh donations will kill the club.  

It's the board to blame if this money is required in normal seasons. 

 

It makes it even easier when the Chair doesn't have to put her hand in her own pocket to maintain the business that she has mismanaged so badly.
 

[Auldbenches]

Just now, Hashimoto said:

It makes it even easier when the Chair doesn't have to put her hand in her own pocket to maintain the business that she has mismanaged so badly.
 

What a terrible 5 years this has been and no end in sight.  

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

They don't really, do they. Most are coming up a level or six and don't really cut the mustard. I don't see that as Robbie's fault. Next year will be a better and fairer time to judge him. Normality and better competitors will make the players and everyone at Hearts including the fans, drop this self righteous, and sense of entitlement. When did this kick in. BTW? 

Thats a bit harsh, Ri.   From the point that FoH had enough money to repay AB, millions more has been donated to the club by us.     Why did we do that (and most are continuing to do that ) ?     Simple ....... in the hope (and  reasonable expectation actually) that the manager and board will spend it wisely to give us a wee advantage that we didn't have before.     Since 2018, can you honestly say that our on-field performance (and league positions) indicate a better  level than before ?     We've been  paying more in exchange for less.     

 

If anything, its the Hearts board who seem to have a sense of entitlement .... not us.  

 

 

[davemclaren]

11 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

Would the "double hit" not be affected by lack of crowds? 

The demotion impact this season I would think  is mainly in the reduced share of tv money through league position, lost income from advertising etc for live matches on Sky and less ppv income due to playing smaller teams.  It was mentioned recently in an article that our turnover has halved this season, for various reasons. As I say, all will be clearer when the accounts come out. 

[David Black]

3 hours ago, davemclaren said:

During this pandemic, when there is very little income from our normal sources, the FoH donations are necessarily helping to keep the club afloat. 

But how does every other club survive without this additional income. It certainly helps the shortfall but , it also highlights that we do not live within our means, which we are supposed to do. This inference that the club needs this money to help it survive is really emotional blackmail. If the club has to rely on outside donations maybe those responsible for us being where we are should put their hands in their pockets due to their total mis-handling of the club.  

[Mars plastic]

1 minute ago, David Black said:

But how does every other club survive without this additional income. It certainly helps the shortfall but , it also highlights that we do not live within our means, which we are supposed to do. This inference that the club needs this money to help it survive is really emotional blackmail. If the club has to rely on outside donations maybe those responsible for us being where we are should put their hands in their pockets due to their total mis-handling of the club.  

Has this quote been attributed to anyone at the club, or is it just the amateur accountants on here that like to spout it?

[Lone Striker]

4 minutes ago, David Black said:

But how does every other club survive without this additional income. It certainly helps the shortfall but , it also highlights that we do not live within our means, which we are supposed to do. This inference that the club needs this money to help it survive is really emotional blackmail. If the club has to rely on outside donations maybe those responsible for us being where we are should put their hands in their pockets due to their total mis-handling of the club.  

Isn't that where AB (through additional loans) already steps in ?    Its almost as if AB wants to keep us financially in debt to her for  as long as possible.   But I agree with your viewpoint  that in normal times, and now that the stand and pitch expenditure is mostly out the way, then there should be no need to overspend or borrow money  in order to provide the sub-standard football performance we've been seeing for the past 3 years.   

[Jamhammer]

3 hours ago, Jamboj1 said:

Neilsons future will be discussed at the end of season meeting in 2/3 weeks time, asked for a rough estimate of chance him staying or going and was given a 80/20 of him being in charge next season. Many in the club believe we need change will it happen this summer? Unlikely unless a disagreement on next seasons expectations 👍🏻

Next seasons expectations, I’d imagine being something as vague as “stabilise our position in the top league”

i.e Don’t get relegated.

Sigh!

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, Jamhammer said:

Next seasons expectations, I’d imagine being something as vague as “stabilise our position in the top league”

i.e Don’t get relegated.

Sigh!

She has already said the objective for next season is top 6 

[NANOJAMBO]

41 minutes ago, David Black said:

But how does every other club survive without this additional income. It certainly helps the shortfall but , it also highlights that we do not live within our means, which we are supposed to do. This inference that the club needs this money to help it survive is really emotional blackmail. If the club has to rely on outside donations maybe those responsible for us being where we are should put their hands in their pockets due to their total mis-handling of the club.  

Yup, but because Budge has her rich buddy it's all good. It will be interesting to see what "surplus" the club is running in a couple of years with the FOH donations still continuing. 

As for your last sentence : AB should have been on the hook for the ridiculous decisions, the poor management and the outrageous final cost of the stand.  But it's all glossed over because so many still see her as some kind of messiah. 

[David Black]

47 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Has this quote been attributed to anyone at the club, or is it just the amateur accountants on here that like to spout it?

 

49 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Has this quote been attributed to anyone at the club, or is it just the amateur accountants on here that like to spout it?

I'm quoting Dave Mac, although he uses the word afloat, I use the word survive. Same thing.

[Jamhammer]

5 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

She has already said the objective for next season is top 6 

Objective yes but I doubt anything less than relegation fight would be enough for RN to get the bullet.

It’ll work out one of three ways.

We’ll sign good players and improve.

We’ll sign dross and struggle

We’ll sign bang average players and be the same.
 

I think this close season we’ll find out what Savage brings to the table 

 

My money is on the third option. Hopefully other teams will be worse. 
Im usually an optimist but you wouldn’t think so would you? 😀

 

[Paul Shark]

3 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Working for Ann Budge seems to be like working in a public sector job with similar levels of performance and job protection.

So true, unless your German 😂

[Paul Shark]

19 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

She has already said the objective for next season is top 6 

Anything about the cups ?

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Paul Shark said:

So true, unless your German 😂

 

Lesson learned - don't add clauses to your contract to release you when you get demoted. 🤣

[AndyNic]

Bob's not going anywhere.

 

 

 

 

[Beni]

28 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

She has already said the objective for next season is top 6 

 

Got a link?

[davemclaren]

38 minutes ago, David Black said:

 

I'm quoting Dave Mac, although he uses the word afloat, I use the word survive. Same thing.

Without seeing any numbers and assuming the same expenditure I think it’s fair to say our debt this season would be significantly higher than it currently is without those donations.

 

As a general point though, I was against the FoH donations being added to the general income of the club ( except in times of emergency like now ) but should be used for specific purposes/projects. Unfortunately this didn’t have enough support to be included in the final FoH governance model. 
 

I’ve no idea how the club treats  future donations when it does it’s annual financial forecasting. It may include a full or partial estimate or not include anything at all.  It’s an interesting question 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, David Black said:

But how does every other club survive without this additional income. It certainly helps the shortfall but , it also highlights that we do not live within our means, which we are supposed to do. This inference that the club needs this money to help it survive is really emotional blackmail. If the club has to rely on outside donations maybe those responsible for us being where we are should put their hands in their pockets due to their total mis-handling of the club.  

 

 

How does every other club survive? 

 

Aberdeen expect a £6m loss

Utd have reported a almost £4m loss. 

Celtic were in the media saying they have burnt through over halve of thier cash reserves. 

Rangers have issued iirc 2 share issues this year. 

I think I seen it reported Killie taken the £1m loan from the government. 

Hibs were in the media saying they will be selling players in the summer. 

 

 

This years account will reveal all. 

 

We need to do more than survive as well. 

 

 

 

 

 

[David Black]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

How does every other club survive? 

 

Aberdeen expect a £6m loss

Utd have reported a almost £4m loss. 

Celtic were in the media saying they have burnt through over halve of thier cash reserves. 

Rangers have issued iirc 2 share issues this year. 

I think I seen it reported Killie taken the £1m loan from the government. 

Hibs were in the media saying they will be selling players in the summer. 

 

 

This years account will reveal all. 

 

We need to do more than survive as well. 

 

 

 

 

 

Firstly they are surviving that's the point and it's true Hibs may have to sell a couple of players, but at least they have 2 to sell.

[Auldbenches]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

How does every other club survive? 

 

Aberdeen expect a £6m loss

Utd have reported a almost £4m loss. 

Celtic were in the media saying they have burnt through over halve of thier cash reserves. 

Rangers have issued iirc 2 share issues this year. 

I think I seen it reported Killie taken the £1m loan from the government. 

Hibs were in the media saying they will be selling players in the summer. 

 

 

This years account will reveal all. 

 

We need to do more than survive as well. 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought all the stuff creating an increase in turnover is there to help us grow as well as survive? 

The foh money shouldn't be use as emotional blackmail regarding the club not surviving because of it.  

Won't this increase in turnover not lead to even more revenue? 

So no reason to play the club will die card if someone wants to make a stance by withholding their pledges? 

Budge should never get a free reign with the foh money as she hasn't shown she can utilise it.  She hasn't done it with all the money the club have had do far.  

It's not her money .