Derek Mcinnes

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

The flair thing is a lot of shite anyway. There’s nothing wrong with wanting hearts to play good football and get results. We’ve done it under Doddy, JJ and with different bosses under Vlad. Wanting Hearts to play well getting written off as Hibs chat is just nonsense. 

Exactly. The best teams we’ve had played good football and got the best results. 

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

its the definition of what = good football.  Good football is effective football. High tempo, effective, effort, challenges and not backing down. It doesn’t necessarily equate to tika taka

Agree totally. There are lots of ways to play decent football. Wouldn’t turn my nose up at DM but I do wonder if his best years are behind him. No guarantees with anyone we brought in though and I do see the logic in going for him. 

[IveSeenTheLight]

34 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Better a shepherd than a sheep. 👍

 

 

[GinRummy]

Just now, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

 

A few of your relatives in Craiginches for that assault aye?

[Paolo]

4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I can use the fact McInnes had a decent track record in England compared to Neilson's disaster at MK Dons if you want to look at another direct comparison.

27% win rate. Less than Neilson’s at MK Dons, over a similar number of games. A higher level, yes, but also a better side. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, Paolo said:

27% win rate. Less than Neilson’s at MK Dons, over a similar number of games. A higher level, yes, but also a better side. 

Higher level being the pertinent point. Neilson took a playoff side to relegation. McInnes took over a hopeless cause.

[Paolo]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Higher level being the pertinent point. Neilson took a playoff side to relegation. McInnes took over a hopeless cause.

And pretty much left them that way. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, Paolo said:

And pretty much left them that way. 

Indeed but got a much higher gig in England after leaving a much smaller club in Scotland in St Johnstone.

[Paolo]

5 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Indeed but got a much higher gig in England after leaving a much smaller club in Scotland in St Johnstone.

Using that criteria, Alex Neil pisses all over McInnes. 

[David Black]

34 minutes ago, S Form said:

I’d say two of the key players in that best Aberdeen team were Jonny Hayes and Niall McGinn, both of whom were brought to Aberdeen by Craig Brown. In a way McInnes was lucky that the foundations of a good side were in place when he arrived.

Maybe so, but he at least played the two wingers he had. In total RN has had 7 at various times and has hardly played 1.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, Paolo said:

Using that criteria, Alex Neil pisses all over McInnes. 

Correct. I'd take Neil over McInnes but I'd happily take either over Neilson.

[S Form]

9 minutes ago, David Black said:

Maybe so, but he at least played the two wingers he had. In total RN has had 7 at various times and has hardly played 1.

I don’t think that’s right. Our wingers have had lots of chances to show what they can do. The trouble is that they’ve invariably been shite (apart from Josh G).

[sadj]

13 hours ago, OTT said:

 

What you feeling? 

 

I quite like McInsipid  

🤣🤣 Thats far too nice considering how awful his teams are to watch. It’ll be Levine III , new Lhevine , Phoodle mk II , McShite etc. 
 

This place will turn no matter what. Stendel got it , Cathro within 10mins etc fans eh 😉🤣

[TheBigO]

1 minute ago, S Form said:

I don’t think that’s right. Our wingers have had lots of chances to show what they can do. The trouble is that they’ve invariably been shite (apart from Josh G).

Hm. Agree and disagree here.

 

He's played the wingers plenty, yes, and yes they've been shite. BUT the way he has set us up has been torture for them.

 

No fullbacks running inside or outside of them, no quick ball movement side to side to free space, and since we went 2 up top which would in itself draw in fullbacks, we've stopped playing the wingers and have McEneff a fish out of water wide right!

 

The wingers were only ever getting the ball static, generally with back to goal and Mon 2 players to beat from that position if they wanted to even think of heading for goal or byline.

 

All part of the story of our stolid, turgid season. We simply can't keep blaming players.

[TheBigO]

1 minute ago, sadj said:

🤣🤣 Thats far too nice considering how awful his teams are to watch. It’ll be Levine III , new Lhevine , Phoodle mk II , McShite etc. 
 

This place will turn no matter what. Stendel got it , Cathro within 10mins etc fans eh 😉🤣

McAnus surely?

[EH11 2NL]

15 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

You only have to look at us this season to see why having little competition can help you without doing anything great.

Why don’t you just comment on why you think he would be a good manager.

I bet you were happy Levein and then Neilson came back to the club? 

Haha nope, 😄 some jumping your doing there. I've already commented on McInnes. 

[sadj]

9 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

McAnus surely?

Too cerebral for some maybe?

[john thomas]

4 minutes ago, sadj said:

Too cerebral for some maybe?

Wrong end

[Cruyff]

47 minutes ago, Paolo said:

27% win rate. Less than Neilson’s at MK Dons, over a similar number of games. A higher level, yes, but also a better side. 

For balance,. 

 

"McInnes was appointed manager of Bristol City on 19 October 2011.^[3] The club were adrift at the bottom of the Football League Championship, but McInnes guided City to an eight-game unbeaten run that secured their league status.^[23]

On 6 November 2012, following City's 2–0 loss to Birmingham City, McInnes gave £300 to 17 stranded fans who had their minibus tyres slashed outside St Andrew's Stadium.^[24]

During the 2012–13 season, Bristol City suffered a club record seven consecutive defeats.^[23] McInnes was sacked on 12 January 2013, after a 4–0 home defeat to Leicester City left the club eight points adrift of safety.^[23] After being sacked by Bristol City, McInnes said that he was "very desperate" to succeed and that his time at Bristol City was difficult."

[David Black]

19 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Hm. Agree and disagree here.

 

He's played the wingers plenty, yes, and yes they've been shite. BUT the way he has set us up has been torture for them.

 

No fullbacks running inside or outside of them, no quick ball movement side to side to free space, and since we went 2 up top which would in itself draw in fullbacks, we've stopped playing the wingers and have McEneff a fish out of water wide right!

 

The wingers were only ever getting the ball static, generally with back to goal and Mon 2 players to beat from that position if they wanted to even think of heading for goal or byline.

 

All part of the story of our stolid, turgid season. We simply can't keep blaming players.

You have explained it better than I could.

[Pasquale for King]

22 minutes ago, EH11 2NL said:

Haha nope, 😄 some jumping your doing there. I've already commented on McInnes. 

So let’s hear why he’s any better than those two charlatans?

[Pasquale for King]

31 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Hm. Agree and disagree here.

 

He's played the wingers plenty, yes, and yes they've been shite. BUT the way he has set us up has been torture for them.

 

No fullbacks running inside or outside of them, no quick ball movement side to side to free space, and since we went 2 up top which would in itself draw in fullbacks, we've stopped playing the wingers and have McEneff a fish out of water wide right!

 

The wingers were only ever getting the ball static, generally with back to goal and Mon 2 players to beat from that position if they wanted to even think of heading for goal or byline.

 

All part of the story of our stolid, turgid season. We simply can't keep blaming players.

Indeed, practically impossible for them . Irving playing so deep and central doesn’t help that either, no angles and the distance prevent him making the passes that hurt teams. 

[TheBigO]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Indeed, practically impossible for them . Irving playing so deep and central doesn’t help that either, no angles and the distance prevent him making the passes that hurt teams. 

I know. It feels intuitive for Irving to play that qb role, dropping, taking the ball, but that doesn't work when a team is happy to sit and concede possession and territory up the 5o yards out. Who's he to spray the passes to??

 

The whole thing is flawed and actually all we need is to overrun teams with energy and aggression instead of the modern football for dummies. As the Monkeys said, get off the bandwagon and put down the handbook.

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

I know. It feels intuitive for Irving to play that qb role, dropping, taking the ball, but that doesn't work when a team is happy to sit and concede possession and territory up the 5o yards out. Who's he to spray the passes to??

 

The whole thing is flawed and actually all we need is to overrun teams with energy and aggression instead of the modern football for dummies. As the Monkeys said, get off the bandwagon and put down the handbook.

The frustrating part is we have the players to do that, they either aren’t told to do it or motivated properly to do it. 

[NlGHTMARE]

15 hours ago, Spellczech said:

I was listening to Talksport talking about Barnsley on the way home - described a young, keen, fit team who play pressing game...They sacked Stendel but still play his style it seems.

 

 

It’s Barnsley Football Clubs style, he was only employed by the club because it’s also his style, we’ve been recruiting players to play this way for around 4 years now, and obviously we need to recruit head coaches who have the same playing philosophy as the club. 

[Paolo]

42 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

For balance,. 

 

"McInnes was appointed manager of Bristol City on 19 October 2011.^[3] The club were adrift at the bottom of the Football League Championship, but McInnes guided City to an eight-game unbeaten run that secured their league status.^[23]

On 6 November 2012, following City's 2–0 loss to Birmingham City, McInnes gave £300 to 17 stranded fans who had their minibus tyres slashed outside St Andrew's Stadium.^[24]

During the 2012–13 season, Bristol City suffered a club record seven consecutive defeats.^[23] McInnes was sacked on 12 January 2013, after a 4–0 home defeat to Leicester City left the club eight points adrift of safety.^[23] After being sacked by Bristol City, McInnes said that he was "very desperate" to succeed and that his time at Bristol City was difficult."

The stats I posted covers both these periods, so this does not show him to be a better or worse manager than the stats.  He had a good run and a bad run. I don’t know the nature of the good run, but the overall poor win rate suggests there might have been a few draws during it, or after it.   

Edited April 3, 2021 by Paolo

[GavK1012]

This whole situation ie 4.5 years of decline and eye bleeding output on the park, scratching about for a manager to lead us, is a fecking disgrace...

 

I want to be bloody entertained and watch a Hearts team I am proud of...

 

Is that too much to fecking ask 🤔😬🤕🤯😮☹🙁😟😕

 

 

[portobellojambo1]

1 hour ago, TheBigO said:

Hm. Agree and disagree here.

 

He's played the wingers plenty, yes, and yes they've been shite. BUT the way he has set us up has been torture for them.

 

No fullbacks running inside or outside of them, no quick ball movement side to side to free space, and since we went 2 up top which would in itself draw in fullbacks, we've stopped playing the wingers and have McEneff a fish out of water wide right!

 

The wingers were only ever getting the ball static, generally with back to goal and Mon 2 players to beat from that position if they wanted to even think of heading for goal or byline.

 

All part of the story of our stolid, turgid season. We simply can't keep blaming players.

 

Agree totally, there is no point in having two wide players and two strikers on the park if you don't then line up in a manner which gets the maximum out of them. The most recent time we had a winger who was getting past players was GMS, up at Brora, a game we should have started with 3 forwards on the park, but against that level of opposition we started with only Gnanduillet, who appeared to have been told to drop back into the midfield to pick the ball up. It was the perfect opposition to throw tactics/formation out the window and line up in the old way, two full backs, three half backs and five forwards and just bombard them. The problem that night was every time GMS went past the full back in the first half and provided good delivery into the box the only people there to attack it were Brora defenders.

 

As for the thread itself I'm not convinced Duncan Fereguson would consider coming to us. He seems to be very settled in the Liverpool area, and if he does fancy a bash at being a coach/manager I'd think he would be more likely to go to another team in the Lancashire area to gain some experience, in the hope he would then end up back at Everton in the top job. I've seen his name and that of Derek McInnes mentioned on here and elsewhere on social media, and it is the reaction of our fans I find very strange, in as much as many comments are not good enough for HMFC. I don't know what these fans are hoping for but I think it is safe to say we aren't going to get Pep Guardiola, or even someone just below his level. We need to set our sights at the sort of level we can do business at and get someone who has what it takes to both bring in players and create a style of play that is better than what has been on show this season.

Edited April 3, 2021 by portobellojambo1

[Sarah O]

Not particularly inspired by DM. However anyone, anything, is literally better than RN and his team of goons. 

[S Form]

1 hour ago, TheBigO said:

Hm. Agree and disagree here.

 

He's played the wingers plenty, yes, and yes they've been shite. BUT the way he has set us up has been torture for them.

 

No fullbacks running inside or outside of them, no quick ball movement side to side to free space, and since we went 2 up top which would in itself draw in fullbacks, we've stopped playing the wingers and have McEneff a fish out of water wide right!

 

The wingers were only ever getting the ball static, generally with back to goal and Mon 2 players to beat from that position if they wanted to even think of heading for goal or byline.

 

All part of the story of our stolid, turgid season. We simply can't keep blaming players.

I agree that we do play far too slowly, but in terms of freedom for the wingers we are hamstrung to some extent by the narrowness of Tynie and the fact that the opposition choose to sit back. 
 

It seems we choose to counter that by focusing on possession and moving the ball from side to side to try and open up some space.
 

I think we’d have more success if we were right on top of the opposition and hassling them at every opportunity. However, I’m not sure our wingers have that sort of game in them - imagine GMS trying to hassle his opponent 😂

[Paolo]

Just now, Sarah O said:

Not particularly inspired by DM. However anyone, anything, is literally better than RN and his team of goons. 

He is.  But I think we should have bigger aspirations than simply being ‘better than RN’.  

[AC Mallin_51]

We don’t want McCinnes fs. This is hearts. We don’t want a manager who’s constantly finished in a European spot for years 

[Frank Sidebottom]

Ann doesn’t know him and Levein called him a dick once, so that rules it out. 

[gashauskis9]

14 hours ago, pointon said:

And that is why he should get the job 

Correct, but it’s also the reason he won’t.  

[pointon]

Is Budge related to any football managers might be our only hope of getting Robbie out

[OTT]

1 hour ago, TheBigO said:

McAnus surely?

 

Ooh thats a ****er

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

I think going down an “anyone but Neilson” route - which seems to be a bit of a theme here - is a bit daft.

 

I want more than just stability.

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, GinRummy said:

Better a shepherd than a sheep. 👍

Shepherds are typically sad lonely people. Sheep are surrounded by their mates. 😄

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

Please ****ing tell me, given our current plight there arent hearts fans who would turn their noses up at a manager who has turned  Aberdeen from a complete joke to a team who now expect to finish third every season ! to the extent that they parted ways with him when he was 4th in the league!! . He finished in Europe every season. made them millions in transfer fees, bought good young players and actually developed good young players and brought them into the side.  And every ****ing week they gave 100%. A side with no ****ing pussies in it 
 

hearts are the ****ing joke now - I’d be ****ing ecstatic to get anywhere near Aberdeen right now.  please tell me  hearts fans don’t actually hold this option.! If you do you are absolutely bizarre.
 

who the **** would you want? Becuase other than Alex Neil there is no another candidate who’s be better suited for the job 

Lots of them it seems. Just can’t win on the Hearts management position and candidates. Maybe we should just wind things up. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

Shepherds are typically sad lonely people. Sheep are surrounded by their mates. 😄

Fiercely independent and not one of the crowd is how I’d put it.  Won’t end up in a mutton curry either. 😏

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

 

How much was McInnes earning at your club? 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

50 minutes ago, AC Mallin_51 said:

We don’t want McCinnes fs. This is hearts. We don’t want a manager who’s constantly finished in a European spot for years 

Robbie was shouted down as 3rd place not being that great an achievement in his full season in the SPL due to the league being weakened 

 

McInnes was in charge in a league where:

 

- Rangers weren’t in it for 5 years and then were fairly shite the first year back

- we self imploded and went bust leaving is impotent for one season (in which we owned Aberdeen) and out of the league altogether for the next season

- Hibs self emploded the same season we did and then were out of the league for 2 seasons.

 

Rarely has a manager of a non-old firm team had so many of the biggest teams in Scotland out of the way, in poor form and not having to play them for so many seasons.

 

How many managers in Scotland at the time with the resources Aberdeen had would likely have achieved fairly similar results/finishes?

 

Can we apply the same rules of assessment to managers please without twisting things or using one argument against one manager but ignoring exactly the same argument against the Sheep’s Pep Guardiola.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[Bazzas right boot]

15 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

I think going down an “anyone but Neilson” route - which seems to be a bit of a theme here - is a bit daft.

 

I want more than just stability.

 

9 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Robbie was shouted down as 3rd place not being that great an achievement in his full season in the SPL due to the league being weakened 

 

McInnes was in charge in a league where:

 

- Rangers weren’t in it for 5 years and then were fairly shite the first year back

- we self imploded and went bust leaving is impotent for one season (in which we owned Aberdeen) and out of the league altogether for the next season

- Hibs self emploded the same season we did and then were out of the league for 2 seasons.

 

Rarely has a manager of a non-old firm team had so many of the biggest teams in Scotland out of the way, in poor form and not having to play them for so many seasons.

 

How many managers in Scotland at the time with the resources Aberdeen had would likely have achieved fairly similar results/finishes?

 

Can we apply the same rules of assessment to managers please without twisting things or using one argument against one manager but ignoring exactly the same argument against the Sheep’s Pep Guardiola.

 

 

2 very sensible posts. 

 

 

[JimmyCant]

3 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Bigger picture we’ve been consistent under Neilson - like him or not.

 

1st in the Championship both seasons for the whole season. 3rd in the SPL and 2nd (yes games in hand etc) when he left.

 

You can’t use the fact that McInnes has been around longer as the basis for him being consistent over a longer time equating to him being better when Neilson hasn’t had that length of time to prove or disprove your theory.

Your relying on short term consistency from 5 years ago to keep Neilson over McInnes ? McInnes qualified for Europe 8 years running. No Hearts manager EVER has got anywhere near that achievement. Neilson qualified once for Europe and treated it like a inconvenient pre-season kickabout.

Edited April 3, 2021 by JimmyCant

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, TheBigO said:

I know. It feels intuitive for Irving to play that qb role, dropping, taking the ball, but that doesn't work when a team is happy to sit and concede possession and territory up the 5o yards out. Who's he to spray the passes to??

 

The whole thing is flawed and actually all we need is to overrun teams with energy and aggression instead of the modern football for dummies. As the Monkeys said, get off the bandwagon and put down the handbook.

 

 

This mindset annoys me a bit, it's like there is only one team. 

 

High pressing struggles in Scotland a bit more as many  teams will play deep, hit it long and play % football, this causes the high press problems. 

It's not a all conquering philosophy as many make it out to be on here. 

 

Also, what stops both teams doing the high press like you say? 

It's not that simple. 

 

Ironically in this division as we pass it more and have more % we are on the end of the high press! 

 

Fundamentally you need better players and a well trained team to practice and implement any tactic, there was no time for stendel to do that and in the championship promotion is the only goal as we'll have lots of new players next season under whoever manages us. 

 

Under Stendel it worked v Aberdeen, Hibs and rangers better than it did v Hamilton, St Mirren etc. 

There's a theme there. 

 

 

Liverpool have been found out with thier high press after 1 season and a few injuries, and that's at an elite level, and that's after it  taken 2/3 years for them to build that up. 

 

It's really not that simple or every team would just do it 

 

 

 

 

 

[MattyK82]

1 hour ago, Sarah O said:

Not particularly inspired by DM. However anyone, anything, is literally better than RN and his team of goons. 

Lennon could do a job...🙃

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

6 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Your relying on short term consistency from 5 years ago to keep Neilson over McInnes ? McInnes qualified for Europe 8 years running. No Hearts manager EVER has got anywhere near that achievement. Neilson qualified once for Europe and treated it like a inconvenient pre-season kickabout.

Yes and there is a potential explanation for this run of finishes in my previous post above - a number of seasons where between 1 and 3 of the 4 or 5 biggest teams in Scotland weren’t in the league/were in admin/had player transfer bans etc.

 

Aberdeen’s success in that period is all relative and happened at a particularly unusual time in Scottish football

[JimmyCant]

16 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Yes and there is a potential explanation for this run of finishes in my previous post above - a number of seasons where between 1 and 3 of the 4 or 5 biggest teams in Scotland weren’t in the league/were in admin/had player transfer bans etc.

 

Aberdeen’s success in that period is all relative and happened at a particularly unusual time in Scottish football

And when RN finished 3rd Hibs and Rangers were missing and he finished behind Aberdeen

[maroonlegions]

21 hours ago, pointon said:

Rumours a foot he might be coming in for new season is there any foundation to this ?

 

YIP.

[TheBigO]

24 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

This mindset annoys me a bit, it's like there is only one team. 

 

High pressing struggles in Scotland a bit more as many  teams will play deep, hit it long and play % football, this causes the high press problems. 

It's not a all conquering philosophy as many make it out to be on here. 

 

Also, what stops both teams doing the high press like you say? 

It's not that simple. 

 

Ironically in this division as we pass it more and have more % we are on the end of the high press! 

 

Fundamentally you need better players and a well trained team to practice and implement any tactic, there was no time for stendel to do that and in the championship promotion is the only goal as we'll have lots of new players next season under whoever manages us. 

 

Under Stendel it worked v Aberdeen, Hibs and rangers better than it did v Hamilton, St Mirren etc. 

There's a theme there. 

 

 

Liverpool have been found out with thier high press after 1 season and a few injuries, and that's at an elite level, and that's after it  taken 2/3 years for them to build that up. 

 

It's really not that simple or every team would just do it 

 

 

 

 

 

Back off my mindset big man.

 

Never mentioned high press. High energy and aggression. Any style of football needs it and we totally lack it. Any successful style I can think of means playing quickly too whether that's running or moving the ball. We do none of this.

 

Might this be the only thing you agree with anyone on jkb about??