Won the Championship by 12 Points (title updated)

[Ex member of the SaS]

11 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I agree with this.

 

People calling for his head seriously need to question whether we can attract a decent enough candidate, but even if that you need to consider whether that person would be interested if they took a look at how far behind the squad is from the first team to reserves. 

 

Who (other than those out of work) is going to put their neck on the line if they think its unlikely they can reap the benefits of their hard work before they get the sack?

Sorry,  if you think Budge is telling the truth we had multiple applications when Cathro left, many quoted in the media were streets ahead of Robbie in qualifications, yet she never once went back to revisit any of those candidates and instead went for the cheap and easy option.

Hearts are a big team in a small pond and many out of work managers would jump at the chance to show their credentials.

The only reason ( that I can see ) is when demoted Budge thought ( along with the pandemic ) we would be short of cash and refused to speculate to accumulate.

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Sorry,  if you think Budge is telling the truth we had multiple applications when Cathro left, many quoted in the media were streets ahead of Robbie in qualifications, yet she never once went back to revisit any of those candidates and instead went for the cheap and easy option.

Hearts are a big team in a small pond and many out of work managers would jump at the chance to show their credentials.

The only reason ( that I can see ) is when demoted Budge thought ( along with the pandemic ) we would be short of cash and refused to speculate to accumulate.

 

If you really want to go back on that we were set to appoint the former Bolton manager, Dougie Freedman, but he took up a role at Crystal Palace at the last minute, which threw things in flux.

 

Other candidates such as Owen Coyle didn't exactly fill me with excitement, and Steve McLaren just wanted to get his name in the media by being linked to us.

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

If you really want to go back on that we were set to appoint the former Bolton manager, Dougie Freedman, but he took up a role at Crystal Palace at the last minute, which threw things in flux.

 

Other candidates such as Owen Coyle didn't exactly fill me with excitement, and Steve McLaren just wanted to get his name in the media by being linked to us.

When a company CEO is making new appointments they generally don't put all their eggs in one basket. If Freedman threw things in a flux we are in a worse state than I thought.

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

When a company CEO is making new appointments they generally don't put all their eggs in one basket. If Freedman threw things in a flux we are in a worse state than I thought.

 

If you have already told the other candidates they weren't successful because you made an offer that by all accounts was verbally accepted then you can't go back without looking unprofessional.

 

In any case we are speculating as to who was on that list beyond who was in the papers.

[henryheart]

5 hours ago, ADAM said:

You're all over the place, what are you rambling on about last season for?

 

The post I responded to claimed the current team are a "shambles" and "if we we're in the top league this year would really struggle" but there's no hard evidence to support that assertion.

 

Just because a team has some poor performances, like a few draws during a league campaign, doesn't equate to a team  'struggling' or being a 'shambles' and people who understand football know that's not how football works.

 

The facts/results are we're winning the league at a canter, could we be better - definitely yes, but to suggest that a team who: won a cup semi-final derby against a Premiership side, only lost a cup final on penalties to a Premiership side,  is strolling to league championship and is averaging over 2 goals per game is 'struggling' and a 'shambles' is into nonsense-on-stilts terrority.

 

 

I love your optimism but my eyes sees a team, supposedly boosted by signings in the transfer window, that has in its last 9 games amassed an amazing 11 goals. The team that was racking up the goals and beating Premiership sides earlier in the season included the likes of Lee (not going to return), and Wighton (deemed not good enough despite being well on target for 15+ goals for the season) and featured much more regularly White and Walker, who are not first choices any more. We also had Ginnelly, who showed pace and positivity when injury free and may, or may not return next season. OK, we are losing less goals and are unbeaten in 10, but the team that did all the hard work giving us the points, a fantastic goal difference and a genuine feelgood factor is history.  You are right, the current team is not struggling in that it is not getting beat, but it is dull as dishwater, is not making the number of goal chances that it should be and has a defence that gets by because the teams we are playing against lack pace. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

If you have already told the other candidates they weren't successful because you made an offer that by all accounts was verbally accepted then you can't go back without looking unprofessional.

 

In any case we are speculating as to who was on that list beyond who was in the papers.

Sorry FB if you get the wrong end of the stick, I was not speculating on who was on a list, I was stating we had better candidates than Robbie available but rather than re-interview them Budge took the cheap option.

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

When a company CEO is making new appointments they generally don't put all their eggs in one basket. If Freedman threw things in a flux we are in a worse state than I thought.

Not deliberately picking you up on your words but how could we be in a worse state. We are one of the best financed clubs in the country, we are playing in The Championship and have a host of has beens and journeyman in a steady stream of unsuitable signings who look like they’ve arrived at hearts to put their feet up. We have a pay structure that doesn’t reward success in the same way other clubs pay structures do and an ongoing problem getting the team motivated to put in a halfway professional performance.  All these things existed long before Neilson took over. He’s had two windows in the Scottish Championship. Hardly a big opportunity to reverse years of decay. 

[Bazzas right boot]

16 points clear and look at the stat of this thread.

The only thing that is a shambles is some of the posts on this thread.

 

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Sorry FB if you get the wrong end of the stick, I was not speculating on who was on a list, I was stating we had better candidates than Robbie available but rather than re-interview them Budge took the cheap option.

 

Ok - name the better candidates.

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

Not deliberately picking you up on your words but how could we be in a worse state. We are one of the best financed clubs in the country, we are playing in The Championship and have a host of has beens and journeyman in a steady stream of unsuitable signings who look like they’ve arrived at hearts to put their feet up. We have a pay structure that doesn’t reward success in the same way other clubs pay structures do and an ongoing problem getting the team motivated to put in a halfway professional performance.  All these things existed long before Neilson took over. He’s had two windows in the Scottish Championship. Hardly a big opportunity to reverse years of decay. 

I was referring to the system used to employ potential managers. Things on the park CAN'T get any worse ( can they ? ) 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Ex member of the SaS said:

I was referring to the system used to employ potential managers. Things on the park CAN'T get any worse ( can they ? ) 

Aye I just used your post for a wee rant. 
 

Things can always get worse I suppose but I don’t think they will. Robbie will limp us into top 6 next season and hopefully we’ll grow from there is my guess. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

Ok - name the better candidates.

Seriously? You are the one questioning going back that far. We had Sergio for one and a few others that memory refuses to conger up. ( my memory is destroyed due to medication and old age ) 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Seriously? You are the one questioning going back that far. We had Sergio for one and a few others that memory refuses to conger up. ( my memory is destroyed due to medication and old age ) 

 

There were guys like Paulo Sergio and Steve McLaren who when presented with our budget were never serious contenders.

[kingantti1874]

4 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

16 points clear and look at the stat of this thread.

The only thing that is a shambles is some of the posts on this thread.

 

It’s not the points, it’s not even the results.
 

I’ve defended Neilson for a long time, but there is a right way and a wrong way to drop points. There is never an excuse for a lack of effort, and no excuse for a lack of motivation. There is absolutely no excuse for yesterday.

 

it’s been absolutely abysmal of late. Being 16 points clear is no more relevant than me beating my 8 year old at FIFA. The opposition is beyond weak.

 

Neilson has lost the fans, he can’t win them back, every time we lose a significant portion of the support will call for his head. The pressure will build and eventually the fans will have his head.

 

it’s a pointless waste of time continuing. Go get Alex Neil

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

There were guys like Paulo Sergio and Steve McLaren who when presented with our budget were never serious contenders.

And you know this for a fact?

[frankblack]

Just now, Ex member of the SaS said:

And you know this for a fact?

 

That is my opinion based on what I read at the time.  You can't prove or disprove it as the only people who know for sure are not going to tell.

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

It’s not the points, it’s not even the results.
 

I’ve defended Neilson for a long time, but there is a right way and a wrong way to drop points. There is never an excuse for a lack of effort, and no excuse for a lack of motivation. There is absolutely no excuse for yesterday.

 

it’s been absolutely abysmal of late. Being 16 points clear is no more relevant than me beating my 8 year old at FIFA. The opposition is beyond weak.

 

Neilson has lost the fans, he can’t win them back, every time we lose a significant portion of the support will call for his head. The pressure will build and eventually the fans will have his head.

 

it’s a pointless waste of time continuing. Go get Alex Neil

 

Disagree with all that.

 

It is about the results and points- that is literally what a league is all about. "Right way and wrong way to drop points"...... 

 

I've not seen a lack of effort.

There are excuses for lack of motivation, being well clear is likely at the top of that list in football terms. But there are others- players out of contract, knowing they are leaving etc.

No excuse for yesterday- drawing with  a team in the same league away from home? What does that even mean- no excuse for extending our lead at the top? No excuse for a football team to draw a game with another team?  Really? No excuse for a draw?  It's quite common in football.

 

We are 9 unbeaten, we haven't been abysmal.

Your Fifa comment is a bit too Celticy/ Rangers for me to comment on. We are in the same league as these teams.

 

Neilson hasn't lost any fans that never hated him from the start. The pressure won't build as long as we are performing well and getting points and moving forward.

 

 I do agree with the last part tho, The discussion is a pointless waste of time.

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Smith's right boot

[Boris]

6 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Disagree with all that.

 

It is about the results and points- that is literally what a league is all about. "Right way and wrong way to drop points"...... 

 

I've not seen a lack of effort.

There are excuses for lack of motivation, being well clear is likely at the top of that list in football terms. But there are others- players out of contract, knowing they are leaving etc.

No excuse for yesterday- drawing with  a team in the same league away from home? What does that even mean- no excuse for extending our lead at the top? No excuse for a football team to draw a game with another team?  Really? No excuse for a draw?  It's quite common in football.

 

We are 9 unbeaten, we haven't been abysmal.

Your Fifa comment is a bit too Celticy/ Rangers for me to comment on. We are in the same league as these teams.

 

Neilson hasn't lost any fans that never hated him from the start. The pressure won't build as long as we are performing well and getting points and moving forward.

 

 I do agree with the last part tho, The discussion is a pointless waste of time.

 

But we are not performing well and the fear is we continue to underperform next season.

Yes, we are clear at the top, but in the Premier league, if we perform as we have, the points haul will be less. That's the worry.

[jr ewing]

15 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Disagree with all that.

 

It is about the results and points- that is literally what a league is all about. "Right way and wrong way to drop points"...... 

 

I've not seen a lack of effort.

There are excuses for lack of motivation, being well clear is likely at the top of that list in football terms. But there are others- players out of contract, knowing they are leaving etc.

No excuse for yesterday- drawing with  a team in the same league away from home? What does that even mean- no excuse for extending our lead at the top? No excuse for a football team to draw a game with another team?  Really? No excuse for a draw?  It's quite common in football.

 

We are 9 unbeaten, we haven't been abysmal.

Your Fifa comment is a bit too Celticy/ Rangers for me to comment on. We are in the same league as these teams.

 

Neilson hasn't lost any fans that never hated him from the start. The pressure won't build as long as we are performing well and getting points and moving forward.

 

 I do agree with the last part tho, The discussion is a pointless waste of time.

 

We are a poor team with no motivation from the management. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, jr ewing said:

We are a poor team with no motivation from the management. 

 

Be the first poor team to win the league at a canter. 

 

Strange. 

[Bazzas right boot]

9 minutes ago, Boris said:

But we are not performing well and the fear is we continue to underperform next season.

Yes, we are clear at the top, but in the Premier league, if we perform as we have, the points haul will be less. That's the worry.

 

 

We are performing well, the league table backs me up on that. 

We are also on a 9 game unbeaten run. 

 

No one knows how we'll perform next year. 

 

You think one way, and as above for the reasons I stated I think different. 

 

[jr ewing]

9 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Be the first poor team to win the league at a canter. 

 

Strange. 

Deserve better. Or straight back down. 

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

We are performing well, the league table backs me up on that. 

We are also on a 9 game unbeaten run. 

 

No one knows how we'll perform next year. 

 

You think one way, and as above for the reasons I stated I think different. 

 

No it doesn't. 

 

League table shows our point haul, which is good, but our actual performances have been brutal, imo. All the table shows is points gained, it doesn't reflect quality of performance, which is ultimately a subjective matter.

 

We both want the same thing, but again subjectively, I guess we have different ideas of what constitutes progress/success/performance.

 

And that's fair enough. Each to their own.

 

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, BarneyBattles said:

Performing well😂

 

Scraping by would be more apt. 
 

We do know how we’ll perform next season, exactly the same as we are now and exactly the same as we played under Robbie before. 
 

Boring, mind numbing eye bleeding football with players scared to express themselves. 

 

Utterly deluded and quite frankly disturbingly so. 

 

 

Scrapping by, 16 points clear - really scraping by. 

 

Last he had us finish third, aye that would be shite. 

 

In fact, your post is just wind and piss. 

 

 

[Boris]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Scrapping by, 16 points clear - really scraping by. 

 

Last he had us finish third, aye that would be shite. 

 

In fact, your post is just wind and piss. 

 

 

Your conflating points gained with performance again!

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, Boris said:

No it doesn't. 

 

League table shows our point haul, which is good, but our actual performances have been brutal, imo. All the table shows is points gained, it doesn't reflect quality of performance, which is ultimately a subjective matter.

 

We both want the same thing, but again subjectively, I guess we have different ideas of what constitutes progress/success/performance.

 

And that's fair enough. Each to their own.

 

 

 

 

 

Winning games is performing well, being top is performing well. 

 

Don't think anyone that has played a sport would disagree with that. 

 

Anyway, circle's. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, Boris said:

Your conflating points gained with performance again!

 

 

Getting points is performing well imo. 

The two are connected, they have to be. 

Winning games, going unbeaten is performing well. 

 

 

 

 

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Winning games is performing well, being top is performing well. 

 

Don't think anyone that has played a sport would disagree with that. 

 

Anyway, circle's. 

 

 

So you win all your games one nil, penalty in the last minute, after being under siege for the previous 89.

 

Yip, performing well.

 

You've never been to a game and wondered how did we not win that? How lucky were the other team? No. They obviously performed better.

[Section Q]

Would like to see some fringe players starting the last four or five games for us if we're mathematically un-catchable. 

Our young guys have suffered lack of playing time because of covid and Robbie should know who he's not keeping next season and drop them in favour of the kids.

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, Boris said:

So you win all your games one nil, penalty in the last minute, after being under siege for the previous 89.

 

Yip, performing well.

 

You've never been to a game and wondered how did we not win that? How lucky were the other team? No. They obviously performed better.

 

 

There would be exceptions, but you don't win games consistently, go unbeaten and be well top of your league without performing well. 

 

I'll also flip your nonsense scenerio, we play great every game, create lots of chances but get beat all our games and get relegated - Is that performing well? 

Ofc it's not. 

 

You can be outplayed and win a game, but that hasn't been the case this season with us  in general , so I'm unsure of your point. 

I don't think in any of our wins we've been outplayed. 

 

Grasping at straws making up a ridiculous scenerio like that as well Tbh. 

 

Being consistent, winning games, being top is performing well. 

It does not mean you can't improve, but it is performing well no matter what ridiculous spin you try and put on it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Smith's right boot

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Would like to see some fringe players starting the last four or five games for us if we're mathematically un-catchable. 

Our young guys have suffered lack of playing time because of covid and Robbie should know who he's not keeping next season and drop them in favour of the kids.

 

Yeah, would be a useful exercise. 

 

Who is in and about the team and not on loan that can make a case? 

[Bazzas right boot]

12 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

You’re confused about one simple point. 
 

I’m out.

 

You're just confused. 

Probably best you're out. 

 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just a reminder that if the two games in hand are taken into account, we are between 10 and 14 points clear. Not that that is really important. What is important now is knowing who we need to keep as part of the squad next season. Hopefully, that isn't very many of this shower.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:

😂 utter weirdo who I have zero interest in engaging with. 

 

Don't do that. 

Tease me- tell me you're out them post more slavers and piss. 

 

Pinky swear this time. 

[bawheed]

3 hours ago, GinRummy said:

That’s very true. Which is why I honestly think RN needs more time. Since RN left last time we’ve made an absolute arse of it. He’s inherited a complete shambles. Let him take us as far as he can and I’m sure the next guy in line won’t inherit the mess Robbie has. I’m not confident in Neilson’s ability but I don’t think he’ll take us backwards, which is the direction we’ve been going for several years. 

Do you honestly think RN is the answer and with time will do better or get the players to play more attractive winning football.

The man is coaching the life out the team, and on paper a good team, but plays player out of position or gets them to

play to his tactics not there normal game.

Wait till next season......we will be fine.....pish.   

[GinRummy]

Just now, bawheed said:

Do you honestly think RN is the answer and with time will do better or get the players to play more attractive winning football.

The man is coaching the life out the team, and on paper a good team, but plays player out of position or gets them to

play to his tactics not there normal game.

Wait till next season......we will be fine.....pish.   

I don’t know. As I said earlier, I think he could get us top six next season. He’s overly cautious and slow to change tactics that aren’t working. He inherited an absolute mess and I think people are underestimating that. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

I don’t know. As I said earlier, I think he could get us top six next season. He’s overly cautious and slow to change tactics that aren’t working. He inherited an absolute mess and I think people are underestimating that. 

The fact you say "could get us top six" shows how much expectations have fallen amongst our support. That's the acceptance of mediocrity that has enveloped the club and that starts from the top.

[NANOJAMBO]

7 hours ago, ADAM said:

You're all over the place, what are you rambling on about last season for?

 

The post I responded to claimed the current team are a "shambles" and "if we we're in the top league this year would really struggle" but there's no hard evidence to support that assertion.

 

Just because a team has some poor performances, like a few draws during a league campaign, doesn't equate to a team  'struggling' or being a 'shambles' and people who understand football know that's not how football works.

 

The facts/results are we're winning the league at a canter, could we be better - definitely yes, but to suggest that a team who: won a cup semi-final derby against a Premiership side, only lost a cup final on penalties to a Premiership side,  is strolling to league championship and is averaging over 2 goals per game is 'struggling' and a 'shambles' is into nonsense-on-stilts terrority.

 

This is the kind of mentality that was used to trash Levein critics : keep dredging up a big result (in his case THAT Celtic game). But it won't wash this time, people are more than fed up with half arsed players and their half arsed attitude to games.

8 clean sheets in 28 (or whatever it is, league games). In the 2nd tier of Scottish football.

Yesterday was pitiful. 

 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

The fact you say "could get us top six" shows how much expectations have fallen amongst our support. That's the acceptance of mediocrity that has enveloped the club and that starts from the top.

I think 6th is the highest we’ve finished in 4 seasons or so. Sad times. 

[underwaterwoodwelder]

The players are definitely playing to the level of their opponents. For a hearts team that’s the worst thing for me..

[Tasavallan]

My only thoughts were/are that RN must have known they would be playing against a "10 men behind the ball" defence which is why his initial tactics was using wingers to play wide and get balls crossed into the box.  As such bringing in the likes of Roberts, Ginnelly, Frear, GMS, etc. looked good on paper but in reality they were not getting past the opposition FBs and when, on the limited occasions that, they did there was no target in the box, as the likes of Boyce were standing in the centre circle.

 

The buck stops with Neilson.  However the redeeming factor is that Raith, Pars, ICT, Dundee, etc. are all dropping points against each other.  Another 8 points should be sufficient, assuming the Pars win all remaining 8 games (but they wont) 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

5 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I think 6th is the highest we’ve finished in 4 seasons or so. Sad times. 

Yep, and we had the same cheerleaders for those in charge then.

 

As I say, acceptance of mediocrity.

[GinRummy]

Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Yep, and we had the same cheerleaders for those in charge then.

 

As I say, acceptance of mediocrity.

No doubt. You can’t realistically expect years of decline to be resolved by a season in the championship. 

[Tasavallan]

9 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

The fact you say "could get us top six" shows how much expectations have fallen amongst our support. That's the acceptance of mediocrity that has enveloped the club and that starts from the top.

 

I agree, look at St Mirren and St Johnnies.  I would expect no less than a squad to exceed the sheep and the Vermin.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Tasavallan said:

 

I agree, look at St Mirren and St Johnnies.  I would expect no less than a squad to exceed the sheep and the Vermin.

Why? When was the last time we done that? Is Robbie going to achieve that?

Edited March 21, 2021 by GinRummy

[kingantti1874]

19 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

No doubt. You can’t realistically expect years of decline to be resolved by a season in the championship. 

when you change most of the starting 11 why not? Who in the current starting 11 has been around for years?

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

when you change most of the starting 11 why not? Who in the current starting 11 has been around for years?

Change them for who and who is going to change them? I’ve yet to see a really good transfer window, admittedly the two in the championship have been difficult. I really hope savage is the answer to our recruitment problems but I’m not getting my hopes up. I’m far from convinced we are going to see the changes necessary for a top 3 or 4 finish but you never know. 

[soonbe110]

33 minutes ago, Tasavallan said:

My only thoughts were/are that RN must have known they would be playing against a "10 men behind the ball" defence which is why his initial tactics was using wingers to play wide and get balls crossed into the box.  As such bringing in the likes of Roberts, Ginnelly, Frear, GMS, etc. looked good on paper but in reality they were not getting past the opposition FBs and when, on the limited occasions that, they did there was no target in the box, as the likes of Boyce were standing in the centre circle.

 

The buck stops with Neilson.  However the redeeming factor is that Raith, Pars, ICT, Dundee, etc. are all dropping points against each other.  Another 8 points should be sufficient, assuming the Pars win all remaining 8 games (but they wont) 

No more points needed. 46 points wins this league. It was probably over last weekend. 

[jr ewing]

56 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Just a reminder that if the two games in hand are taken into account, we are between 10 and 14 points clear. Not that that is really important. What is important now is knowing who we need to keep as part of the squad next season. Hopefully, that isn't very many of this shower.

Difficult to move on. 

[soonbe110]

11 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

when you change most of the starting 11 why not? Who in the current starting 11 has been around for years?

Because he was largely shopping in Poundland. Add in that no decent up and coming player was going to move to a truncated second tier in Scottish football and it’s fair to say his recruitment options were severely limited. With Savage on board and club back in the top league there’s no excuse from this summer onwards. For me his return really starts in August.