Budge Speaks

[Pilmuir]

1 hour ago, Barack said:

"With Hearts ’ turnover already down by more than £7million, Budge sees at least three years of belt-tightening ahead.

She said: “I don’t know if I can put a number on (the losses) but the previous year we had got our turnover up to around £15m and this year it will be half of that — and it’s going to be a loss."

 

 

There's your Robbie Neilson reason. The real one. We can't afford to sack him. We can't afford anymore "luxury" players either.  Get ready for 3 exciting seasons trying to get into the top 6, folks. 

 

 

 

 

True but the same applies to almost every other team, apart from the OF maybe. With the backing of our benefactor we still have a financial advantage on the clubs we aim to compete with in the top 6. We need to start using that advantage and stop wasting money (if I was in Budge's shoes I would be making that point to Neilson).

[smiler]

4 minutes ago, smiler said:

 

Oops

Edited March 4, 2021 by smiler

[smiler]

2 minutes ago, Boris5115 said:

Understatement. You are better ignoring these type of posts. 

That boy's a WUM, just not a very good one. 

[jambonian]

6 minutes ago, Boris5115 said:

Similar budgets count for nowt. Our current position proves otherwise. 

 

Budget suggests top 4, recruitment quality suggests bottom 4

[Haken]

The negative impacts of the ongoing financial situation will impact on all clubs, so I'd hope that it isn't used as an excuse by Hearts going forward.  

[Boris5115]

2 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

Budget suggests top 4, recruitment quality suggests bottom 4

How many years have we been saying that now. 

[Scott980612]

26 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

League position suggests otherwise.

🤔 

[Rudy T]

Just now, Pilmuir said:

True but the same applies to almost every other team, apart from the OF maybe. With the backing of our benefactor we still have a financial advantage on the clubs we aim to compete with in the top 6. We need to start using that advantage and stop wasting money (if I was in Budge's shoes I would be making that point to Neilson).

I guess that’s why Savage has arrived to put more focus on the recruitment and stop signing projects and you tube superstars. No club gets it right every time but our ratios have been ridiculous. Gordon Kingsley Gino and and still think GMS are top 3 signings. Jury is out on Gnando. Then we have Roberts who looked a player at the weekend but showed little with us. Frear was a poor, Halliday I just don’t know what to make of that, Popescu looks a back up signing for next year, and Kasteneer could work out, so we are making improvements in the recruitment department now we just need them to start playing as a unit with some attacking intent.

[Francis Albert]

10 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Aye, you got me on that one.      What 's the logic on having Stuart Wallace on the board just now........ but no-one once FoH become the owner ?

 

e

There will still be a minority of two FOH reps on the club board as at present but the FoH governance arrangements make it clear FoH will not when it gains control interfere in the day to day running of the club. I read that as saying they won't for example call for the manager to be sacked or have a say in any replacement. (Which is I think on the whole is a a good thing). And in any event the rest of the Board can over-ride them if they did do so. 

What changes with a controlling  majority share ownership (if and when it happens) is that FoH will have the ability to "sack the Board" (as we used to say) at an AGM or EGM. That should be more than enough to influence Board decisions (if and when FoH decides to do so).

As posted before I don't think FOH representation on the club board, now or in the future, adds much other than making FoH collectively responsible for whatever messes the club board creates.  

 

 

[jambonian]

13 minutes ago, Boris5115 said:

How many years have we been saying that now. 

 

I know. It's pathetic. 

Recruitment won't change just because Savage is around. Neilson will tell him what type he wants then leave it to Savage to find. In otherwords, it won't matter who we bring in as they'll be similar quality to what we already have. We'll still be signing League 1 quality which won't improve us for a top 4 finish. We need to get in a couple of marquee signings to show we're serious then look around our own leagues for the best that's available. It's not done Hibs any harm and it's what we were once good at. Hamilton, Cameron, Hartley, Colquhoun, McCann, Fulton, Weir...the list is long. 

[Hagar the Horrible]

Ann also states that there wont be full houses until 2022,  does that mean we will have Robbie in charge until then

[SectionDJambo]

We should maybe be more concerned about her belief that football stadia won't be full to capacity for a fair while yet, and that fans may still not be in this year. She was correct in her early belief that Covid would be around for a while, which others in her position wouldn't consider, leading to the position Scottish football now finds itself in. No away fans allowed has to be a strong possibility, which clubs like St Johnstone, Motherwell, St Mirren and Kilmarnock, would suffer greatly from.

Hearts having to "tighten our belts" for 3 years, should also be a worry to us, despite the finance that supports Hearts, and a bigger worry to the clubs who have been either deferring wages or paying them in full. 

Players and their agents are going to have to take a reality check too, especially at our level.

[jambali]

So Robbie is about to get fired? That's what usually happens when the Chair of a club gives a vote of confidence!

 

[Jeffros Furios]

1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Definitely top 6.

However,  I see no reason why we can't be close to Aberdeen and that hibs side currently 3rd, we'll all have similar budgets. 

 

 

[Ari Gold]

17 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Could be, but imo it's McKinlay who should be feeling the heat for the crappy football.

Why should it be McKinlay? He never appointed Neilson. 

[WageThief]

27 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

I know. It's pathetic. 

Recruitment won't change just because Savage is around. Neilson will tell him what type he wants then leave it to Savage to find. In otherwords, it won't matter who we bring in as they'll be similar quality to what we already have.

 

Neilson: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a centre-half

 

Savage:  Cool, what type of centre-half?

 

Neilson: A shite one who wont improve the squad.

[GinRummy]

Just now, WageThief said:

 

Neilson: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a centre-half

 

Savage:  Cool, what type of centre-half?

 

Neilson: A shite one who wont improve the squad.

😁

[smiler]

1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Definitely top 6.

However,  I see no reason why we can't be close to Aberdeen and that hibs side currently 3rd, we'll all have similar budgets. 

 

 

You really do need help. 

I'm not just saying that because you're the worst of the prolific posters this board has ever seen, it's, well, because, you really do need help. 

[jambonian]

1 minute ago, WageThief said:

 

Neilson: Hi Joe, I'm looking for a centre-half

 

Savage:  Cool, what type of centre-half?

 

Neilson: A shite one who wont improve the squad.

 

Savage: No problem, i know a few like that, leave it with me and i'll try to find the least shitest out of a list.

 

Neilson: Thanks Joe. Remember, no-one too expensive. 

 

Savage: Yes, i know Robbie, no Jimmy Dunnes...i get it. I'll take a look at who's deemed not good enough and being freed from Mansfield, Bristol Rovers or Carlisle or such clubs. If i can't find one cheap enough you can always go back to the agent you got Popescu from. Speak later.

[Stendelnator]

Based on performances so far, I’d be quite glad if we can’t sign any more “luxury” big name players for a few years.

[Pasquale for King]

8 hours ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

Pitch was a mudbath under Cathro - football was always going to be poor an that's before we saw the results. the new surface is much better - hopefully we can get a team worthy to play on it at some point. 

That’s true but it’s doubtful if he would ever have got a tune out of any team. The guy is best suited to setting up training and analysing other teams, he lacks the rest of what it takes to coach a team. 
 

[Famous 1874]

She really has to go. Sounded to me like she essentially has ruled out next season? If Hearts finish below 4th ever, the manager should go. 

[Calebs Grandad]

Year 1 - Achieve promotion

Year 2 - Bottom 6 finish without being relegated 

Year 3 - Top 6 finish 

 

Job done. 

[Cruyff]

Just now, Calebs Grandad said:

Year 1 - Achieve promotion

Year 2 - Bottom 6 finish without being relegated 

Year 3 - Top 6 finish 

 

Job done. 

 

 

Hiya Ann

 

 

[The Grim Reaper]

2 minutes ago, Calebs Grandad said:

Year 1 - Achieve promotion

Year 2 - Bottom 6 finish without being relegated 

Year 3 - Top 6 finish 

 

Job done. 

 

Probably accurate. 

[OTT]

Ok, if we're operating under financial constraints next year, lets see some youth in the first team. Watch Robbie go out and sign a bunch of 26-29 year olds that will be gone within 2 summers. 

[NANOJAMBO]

27 minutes ago, smiler said:

You really do need help. 

I'm not just saying that because you're the worst of the prolific posters this board has ever seen, it's, well, because, you really do need help. 

Amen. 

[Famous 1874]

There really is a complete acceptance of mediocrity within the club isn’t there? That stems from Ann Budge.

 

We are the third biggest team in the county with the fourth biggest budget.  Cannot believe she is implying that next season is about survival, regardless of the playing squad available right now. It’s Neilson’s job to improve players ffs. 

 

If we’re not back in 4th place minimum next season then the manager simply has to go. I reckon I’d get us a top 6 finish ffs. Start by playing your best players every week and actually learning from mistakes might make us play better and win more games. 

[WageThief]

6 minutes ago, jambonian said:

Savage: Yes, i know Robbie, no Jimmy Dunnes...i get it. I'll take a look at who's deemed not good enough and being freed from Mansfield, Bristol Rovers or Carlisle or such clubs. If i can't find one cheap enough you can always go back to the agent you got Popescu from. Speak later.

 

Neilson (smirking) : Hey Joe, where you going with that gun in your hand?

 

Savage (sighs): Nice reference Robbie.  I'm going out to shoot cats.  I ****ing hate cats, and also cute dogs.  And orphans.

 

Neilson:  Can I come with you?  I love killing cats.  Might even drown a few.  I also hate orphans.

 

Savage:  You can come, but only if you hate Hearts.  Do you?

 

Neilson:  Of course I do.  I hate Hearts even more than I love drowning cats.

 

Savage: Ok, magic.  Now let's go out and kill some cats.

 

Neilson (laughing hysterically and singing): Like a cat in a bag waiting to drown, and then we'll send the Hearts back down.

 

[glynnlondon]

1 hour ago, jambonian said:

 

I know. It's pathetic. 

Recruitment won't change just because Savage is around. Neilson will tell him what type he wants then leave it to Savage to find. In otherwords, it won't matter who we bring in as they'll be similar quality to what we already have. We'll still be signing League 1 quality which won't improve us for a top 4 finish. We need to get in a couple of marquee signings to show we're serious then look around our own leagues for the best that's available. It's not done Hibs any harm and it's what we were once good at. Hamilton, Cameron, Hartley, Colquhoun, McCann, Fulton, Weir...the list is long. 

Depressing looking at those names 

[davemclaren]

11 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

She really has to go. Sounded to me like she essentially has ruled out next season? If Hearts finish below 4th ever, the manager should go. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, jambonian said:

 

I know. It's pathetic. 

Recruitment won't change just because Savage is around. Neilson will tell him what type he wants then leave it to Savage to find. In otherwords, it won't matter who we bring in as they'll be similar quality to what we already have. We'll still be signing League 1 quality 

For sure - that's Hearts financial limit anyway and it's going to be tough for the next 2-3 years while the £8 million loss of income (ABs figures, not mine) is rectified. 

The idea we're going to be challenging for 4th next as espoused by the Chief Troll is an absolute fantasy. 

[jambonian]

4 minutes ago, WageThief said:

 

Neilson (smirking) : Hey Joe, where you going with that gun in your hand?

 

Savage (sighs): Nice reference Robbie.  I'm going out to shoot cats.  I ****ing hate cats, and also cute dogs.  And orphans.

 

Neilson:  Can I come with you?  I love killing cats.  Might even drown a few.  I also hate orphans.

 

Savage:  You can come, but only if you hate Hearts.  Do you?

 

Neilson:  Of course I do.  I hate Hearts even more than I love drowning cats.

 

Savage: Ok, magic.  Now let's go out and kill some cats.

 

Neilson (laughing hysterically and singing): Like a cat in a bag waiting to drown, and then we'll send the Hearts back down.

 

 

👍

[Famous 1874]

5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

You disagree? The league is shocking. We have the 4th biggest budget, a failure if we don’t get at least 4th. 

[Rudy T]

3 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

She really has to go. Sounded to me like she essentially has ruled out next season? If Hearts finish below 4th ever, the manager should go. 

She said consolidate. That really could mean anything. She chose a safe statement totally non committal.

 

You have to take every season in context, should Paulo Sergio have been sacked? He stated with the squad he had winning the cup was the focus not the league and he delivered, I think we finished 5th?

[Holyrood_Hearts]

1 hour ago, Pilmuir said:

True but the same applies to almost every other team, apart from the OF maybe. With the backing of our benefactor we still have a financial advantage on the clubs we aim to compete with in the top 6. We need to start using that advantage and stop wasting money (if I was in Budge's shoes I would be making that point to Neilson).

This all day long. The money we’ve wasted in the last couple years under AB is frightening on bad players. 

[Hagar the Horrible]

18 minutes ago, Calebs Grandad said:

Year 1 - Achieve promotion

Year 2 - Bottom 6 finish without being relegated 

Year 3 - Top 6 finish 

 

Job done. 

Wanting more than that then we are all being unreasonable

 

Reality

Year 1 - Stumble to promotion

Year 2 - Bottom 2 finish  being relegated and boring eye bleeding football without any fight

Year 3 - Top 6 finish in the Championship

[davemclaren]

6 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

You disagree? The league is shocking. We have the 4th biggest budget, a failure if we don’t get at least 4th. 

The league is as it is and I’m not sure what you mean by shocking. If we followed your strict rule of sacking any manager that doesn’t finish fourth we would have sacked Alex Macdonald in 83/84. 

[jambonian]

5 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

For sure - that's Hearts financial limit anyway and it's going to be tough for the next 2-3 years while the £8 million loss of income (ABs figures, not mine) is rectified. 

The idea we're going to be challenging for 4th next as espoused by the Chief Troll is an absolute fantasy. 

 

Thing is we're probably only a few players away from being able to. The backbone of the squad is fairly sound. We'll need about 5 players added and keep the best of what we have. Two centre-halves is a must, a right-back, an attacking midfielder and a striker. Add that to the experience of Gordon, Smith, Boyce, Walker, Naismith, Mackay-Steven etc and a couple of promising younger players like McEneff then i don't think it's beyond possibility. You lose Frear, Roberts, Moore, Kastaneer, Brandon, Zlamal, Popescu, Damour, Berra and that's a lot of wages saved. That could be used to fund a few quality players and promising players from other clubs instead of bloating the squad with more loans and League 1 players. It also leaves space for youngsters to be given games or bench-time. We're not too far away from a half decent team, the coaching on the other hand is questionable but maybe a few quality players would make that difference. 

[Pilmuir]

1 hour ago, Barack said:

Like I've said above, it's just the fed-up cynic in me talking.

 

Though, as fun as it is, we really need to get away from relying on Anderson too. If he wants to replace Budge in the end...great. I realise it's his money & he's free to spend it however he wants. That aside; between us firing in Christ knows how much a year, coupled with a team performing as per expectations, with the European privileges that brings...I'd hope we become less & less reliant on Anderson's philanthropy boosting our balance sheet.

Yes we do need to plan beyond Anderson's generosity. I think I read somewhere on the forum that he is in for 5 years, which is an incredible commitment. Add this to the FoH donations and there is a huge amount of money coming into the club that other teams don't have, which makes it all the more frustrating that we are not currently using it to good effect. 

[Francis Albert]

22 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

For sure - that's Hearts financial limit anyway and it's going to be tough for the next 2-3 years while the £8 million loss of income (ABs figures, not mine) is rectified. 

The idea we're going to be challenging for 4th next as espoused by the Chief Troll is an absolute fantasy. 

Which are the other clubs (apart from the OF) which will have better income than us next season? There isn't much between us and Aberdeen and Hibs, who will certainly be aiming for a top 4 finish next season. The rest will have significantly lower income.

 

And who is responsible for getting us into a position where challenging for fourth is in your view "absolute fantasy"

Edited March 4, 2021 by Francis Albert

[NANOJAMBO]

Just now, jambonian said:

 

Thing is we're probably only a few players away from being able to. The backbone of the squad is fairly sound. We'll need about 5 players added and keep the best of what we have. Two centre-halves is a must, a right-back, an attacking midfielder and a striker. Add that to the experience of Gordon, Smith, Boyce, Walker, Naismith, Mackay-Steven etc and a couple of promising younger players like McEneff then i don't think it's beyond possibility. You lose Frear, Roberts, Moore, Kastaneer, Brandon, Zlamal, Popescu, Damour, Berra and that's a lot of wages saved. That could be used to fund a few quality players and promising players from other clubs instead of bloating the squad with more loans and League 1 players. It also leaves space for youngsters to be given games or bench-time. We're not too far away from a half decent team, the coaching on the other hand is questionable but maybe a few quality players would make that difference. 

I think the actual players/positions scenario is well understood (although I disagree about Naismith - he's well past it) . My point is - there's an £8 million loss of income (maybe more if no fans in 2021 ?) . Hearts are gonna be short of cash (there's  gonna have to be some cash spent because the current lot won't keep us in the Prem) and it's gonna be an issue for some time to come. The quality of players we can sign will suffer (unless someone can pull some rabbits out of the hat). Either Hearts will sign fewer replacements next season or the quality will suffer is my forecast. 

 

I think Hearts are miles away from being competitive in the Prem - a total lack of pace & power in the team needs to be rectified. Given where Hearts have been shopping of late, I don't expect any major improvements next season because the money just isn't there. 

[HighTimes]

7 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

Thing is we're probably only a few players away from being able to. The backbone of the squad is fairly sound. We'll need about 5 players added and keep the best of what we have. Two centre-halves is a must, a right-back, an attacking midfielder and a striker. Add that to the experience of Gordon, Smith, Boyce, Walker, Naismith, Mackay-Steven etc and a couple of promising younger players like McEneff then i don't think it's beyond possibility.

 

That's a minimum of half the first eleven. That's yet more major surgery.

[davemclaren]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

Which are the other clubs (apart from the OF) which will have better income than us next season? There isn't much between us and Aberdeen and Hibs, who will certainly be aiming for a top 4 finish next season. The rest will have significantly lower income.

I agree that, assuming we get promoted and FoH contributions stay at a similar level, financially we should be at a similar level to them, ignoring any European income. Our income is impacted this season by being in the championship and, as with everyone, the pandemic. 
 

The issue is that we start at a lower playing base ( evidenced by our finishing position last season ) so that gap needs to be crossed which will likely take a few windows. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

 
 

The issue is that we start at a lower playing base ( evidenced by our finishing position last season ) so that gap needs to be crossed which will likely take a few windows. 

Precisely. 

[Beni]

10 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I agree that, assuming we get promoted and FoH contributions stay at a similar level, financially we should be at a similar level to them, ignoring any European income. Our income is impacted this season by being in the championship and, as with everyone, the pandemic. 
 

The issue is that we start at a lower playing base ( evidenced by our finishing position last season ) so that gap needs to be crossed which will likely take a few windows. 

 

2016, Hearts' first season back: 3rd.

 

2017, Rangers' first season back: 3rd.

 

2018, Hibs' first season back: 4th (18 points above Hearts).

 

2022: Oh well we can't expect Hearts to do very well this season, realistically if we make the top 6 that will be a great success.

 

Seems legit.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by fancy a brew

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

2016, Hearts' first season back: 3rd.

 

2017, Rangers' first season back: 3rd.

 

2018, Hibs' first season back: 4th (18 points above Hearts).

 

2022: Oh well we can't expect Hearts to do very well this season, realistically if we make the top 6 that will be a great success.

 

Seems legit.

 

 

 

 

I think making top 6 is what we should expect. Top four would be a very good season on first season up, as it was for us and Hibs. 

[Gambo]

2 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Definitely top 6.

However,  I see no reason why we can't be close to Aberdeen and that hibs side currently 3rd, we'll all have similar budgets. 

 

 

I expect us to challenge for 3rd, not because of any master class from RN, more because old firm apart, the SPL is as bad as top half of our league.

 

We will needlessly plod our way along with horrific football doing the bare minimum.

 

I think that is fans main problem with RN, the football is needlessly poor.

 

[Paolo]

17 hours ago, OTT said:

I was very enamoured with Stendel. I thought he brought a real passion to the coaching. McDonald was quoted as enjoying the sessions, saw how obviously good a coach he is and noted the intensity. I would probably take him back provided the club could position itself in advance of his coming. I know folk are keen to point out his low win rate, but lets also not gloss over the fact either that his plan was to come in during the summer, rather than when he did. He also had the pish that Levein signed who even he couldn't get a tune out of or MacPhee. I think they build a house of cards which eventually collapsed and Stendel was the poor sod left holding the bag. 

 

When I think of who is a manager that I know can work with youth that I would like to see, the only answer I'm getting is Stendel, I don't doubt they exist elsewhere but there is something about the counter pressing style I think matches fan expectations on footballing philosophy. I don't want that to sound pretentious, I mean that successful Hearts teams have been big and physical, Robbie wanted us to be the fittest team in the league when he was first here, JJs teams were built on physicality etc.. Counter pressing isn't so much about silky football as it is about being aggressive, athletic and high energy. All of which I think ticks the boxes the fans want ticked. Stendel proved he could do it in the big games, he just fell short in the games where teams don't really want the ball. Theres clearly something to work on in that regard, but I think its something I'd like to see tried again. I could actually see a change in his style of play to accommodate just how bad our defence actually was. It was too little too late, but I'd be 100% down for giving it another try. We're not going to develop under Robbie. I think counter pressing could be used from ground up at the club and have a very effective academy/First team set up. 

 

I would welcome him back with open arms to be honest. Right guy, wrong time seems to be the opinion on here. So when is the right time? Maybe when we've just been promoted and are looking to assemble a squad following another season of short termism? In the summer we will likely lose Berra, Bobby, Doyle, Frear, White and hopefully Damour. We may also lose Irving too the way things are looking. You could get Stendel in for the day following us winning the league and immediately set about building a squad ready to compete. He'll also have an intimate knowledge of the squad as it largely hasn't changed so will know who needs to go. 

He also inherited some players with an attitude problem.  
 

They wanted to continue to train and play their way,  not his, even though as a team, we were failing. 

[jambonian]

2 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I think the actual players/positions scenario is well understood (although I disagree about Naismith - he's well past it) . My point is - there's an £8 million loss of income (maybe more if no fans in 2021 ?) . Hearts are gonna be short of cash (there's  gonna have to be some cash spent because the current lot won't keep us in the Prem) and it's gonna be an issue for some time to come. The quality of players we can sign will suffer (unless someone can pull some rabbits out of the hat). Either Hearts will sign fewer replacements next season or the quality will suffer is my forecast. 

 

I think Hearts are miles away from being competitive in the Prem - a total lack of pace & power in the team needs to be rectified. Given where Hearts have been shopping of late, I don't expect any major improvements next season because the money just isn't there. 

 

That was kind of my point in a post further up. The quality of player we sign won't change. It'll be similar to what's happened in the last few years, one average Joe leaves, another average Joe comes in (probably some English lower league one with Savage's input) and the trend continues further. 

Going to your first paragraph...Naismith only looks past it because he's being played wrongly. He does his best work in the box but he's being told to play deep which isn't his game, he doesn't have the legs for that. The other point...yes, money will be tight which makes recruitment even more vital. It'll be tight for every club but in comparison to Aberdeen or Hibs..the teams that are sitting third & fourth at the minute...you know they will still recruit one or two to add to their squads. They're not going to weaken, it's just that yet again we need to recruit more players than them, all down to mis-management over the last few years. Gambles on projects and the injury-plagued. If we are shopping within a similar budget to those two then we have to be first in there to get the players. They don't have an FoH and benefactors so we should still be able to get better quality than them. We seem to just wander around aimlessly with our eyes shut to where Hibs have gone since Heckingbottom was sacked. Aberdeen have only really slipped a bit since Rangers 2012 got their act together. We have to compete and be better than them. A lot of work to be done....yet again!