Irving - signs for SK Austria Klagenfurt ( updated )

[Jambo4050]

Andy will be going abroad. Said that he wouldn’t sign a contract when it first came up and I stand by it unfortunately 

[Newton51]

Just now, Jambo4050 said:

Andy will be going abroad. Said that he wouldn’t sign a contract when it first came up and I stand by it unfortunately 

Would we get some sort of fee?

[iwasthere1954]

2 hours ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

 

Multi literally means more than one and that's what I mean't

 

I think, once he tightens up his ball retention and defending - he'll sell for anything over £6m (based on the kind of money that Nesbit, Cosgrove and Lyndon Dykes were associated with).

Multi does mean more than one. My mistake as I was thinking somewhere over £5m which is of course is the figure you are alluding to.  I would love to see us get a figure like that but i'm not sure many Scottish based players will go for that.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

I like some of the systems NBA offer.

 

Restricted Free Agents are offered contracts by other clubs but if you match the offer you retain the player. 

 

I think that is a good idea that will never happen in football. Still favour the rich but at least you can still decide if that's right for your own business 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Without believing anything on here or knowing the situation, it would be sad to see Andy leave for money to the English lower leagues. If he goes abroad though good luck to him. 

 

For all the money he might be able to make elsewhere, the simple fact is he will not have a better chance of both silverware and playing in Europe every season, and the resulting chances of Scotland call-ups if he continues his progress,  as he will have with us once we're promoted again.

[JimmyCant]

52 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

Without believing anything on here or knowing the situation, it would be sad to see Andy leave for money to the English lower leagues. If he goes abroad though good luck to him. 

 

For all the money he might be able to make elsewhere, the simple fact is he will not have a better chance of both silverware and playing in Europe every season, and the resulting chances of Scotland call-ups if he continues his progress,  as he will have with us once we're promoted again.

He only needs to travel 45 miles west to get an infinitely better chance of silverware, European football and Scotland caps.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

He only needs to travel 45 miles west to get an infinitely better chance of silverware, European football and Scotland caps.

 

From the bench maybe. You've obviously not been following what tends to happen to our and other youngsters who head down the M8 too early. Disagree about Scotland caps. The OF tend not to play younger players so the young guys who get capped are often at other clubs.

Edited February 2, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[jr ewing]

3 hours ago, Jambo4050 said:

Andy will be going abroad. Said that he wouldn’t sign a contract when it first came up and I stand by it unfortunately 

My guess is Girona and becomes Aaron's roomie. 

[JimmyCant]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

From the bench maybe. You've obviously not been following what tends to happen to our and other youngsters who head down the M8 too early. Disagree about Scotland caps. The OF tend not to play younger players so the young guys who get capped are often at other clubs.

So he has a better chance of silverware. Europe and caps staying where he is then ? Just clear that up for me before we even talk about the money attraction

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

So he has a better chance of silverware. Europe and caps staying where he is then ? Just clear that up for me before we even talk about the money attraction

 

There is no suggestion Irving is going to Rangers or Celtic is there so why are we discussing that scenario? My comment was based on him going to lower league England or even abroad. But let's say he does go to the OF at this stage of his career, history suggests he won't play very much.

 

He might well win a medal as a squad member of course if that's what he wants. The chances are he won't develop as a player though and will end up leaving for regular games like so many do. Staying at hearts lets him develop through being given responsibility in lots of games and he'll have a great chance of getting into Europe, unlike in England, and a great chance of a cup. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[soonbe110]

13 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

My guess is Girona and becomes Aaron's roomie. 

750 Mile  commute for one of them ? Would be a very strange set-up. 

[JimmyCant]

10 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

There is no suggestion Irving is going to Rangers or Celtic is there so why are we discussing that scenario? My comment was based on him going to lower league England or even abroad. But let's say he does go to the OF at this stage of his career, history suggests he won't play very much.

 

He might well win a medal as a squad member of course if that's what he wants. The chances are he won't develop as a player though and will end up leaving for regular games like so many do. Staying at hearts lets him develop through being given responsibility in lots of games and he'll have a great chance of getting into Europe, unlike in England, and a great chance of a cup. 

Okay let’s forget the OF for now. Let’s assume Irving is very ambitious and very confident he can get to somewhere BIG eventually, like Man Utd or Liverpool for example. He is 20 and coming out of contract. What is the best possible route for him to start out on from the summer. ? Bearing In mind the money factor. Try and answer without a Hearts hat on because everyone here WANTS him to stay, that doesn’t mean he will and it doesn’t mean he should.

[jr ewing]

14 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

750 Mile  commute for one of them ? Would be a very strange set-up. 

Sounds like Bologna. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

10 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Okay let’s forget the OF for now. Let’s assume Irving is very ambitious and very confident he can get to somewhere BIG eventually, like Man Utd or Liverpool for example. He is 20 and coming out of contract. What is the best possible route for him to start out on from the summer. ? Bearing In mind the money factor. Try and answer without a Hearts hat on because everyone here WANTS him to stay, that doesn’t mean he will and it doesn’t mean he should.

 

 

Unless a club can guarantee him games, the best way to develop is to stay at Hearts, earn a good salary, play lots of games AND have a good chance of European football and silverware. There are many examples of players who do that and get a great move at 23 or so.  Money shouldn't be a factor at this age. He can earn perfectly good money with us. If he can get games and more money and a similar chance of honours and developing elsewhere of course he is likely to go for that, unless the pull of playing for Hearts for more than 30-odd games is too strong. As I said an opportunity to play abroad at a decent level is a different thing entirely. That's life-changing stuff.

Edited February 2, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[JimmyCant]

11 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Unless a club can guarantee him games, the best way to develop is to stay at Hearts, earn a good salary, play lots of games AND have a good chance of European football and silverware. There are many examples of players who do that and get a great move at 23 or so. 

Specifically Hearts ? No other clubs could develop him AND pay him 4 or 5 times as much as we can and provide a bigger window and an easier path to the big time ?  Christ we’ve got miles to go before we’re playing European football regularly and for us silverware is jumping over 4 or 5 hurdles for a cup every 8 years or so. This is not about Hearts now. There is nothing more we can do. It’s about Andy Irving, his ambition, his path to achieving his ambition, his financial desires. He might well think that all of those things are better served getting away from Hearts no matter what is on the table there

Edited February 2, 2021 by JimmyCant

[Riccarton3]

8 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Sounds like Bologna. 

I knew what you meant, jambo 👍

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Specifically Hearts ? No other clubs could develop him AND pay him 4 or 5 times as much as we can and provide a bigger window and an easier path to the big time ?  Christ we’ve got miles to go before we’re playing European football regularly and for us silverware is jumping over 4 or 5 hurdles for a cup every 8 years or so.

 

We'll be challenging for a European spot next season and we have a realistic chance of silverware every season. What lower league English or even abroad clubs can offer that? Unless you think he's going to go to a top 6 English or European club and straight into the team and not their U23s which is, er, unlikely.

[Riccarton3]

2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Specifically Hearts ? No other clubs could develop him AND pay him 4 or 5 times as much as we can and provide a bigger window and an easier path to the big time ?  Christ we’ve got miles to go before we’re playing European football regularly and for us silverware is jumping over 4 or 5 hurdles for a cup every 8 years or so.

Yeah, we haven't loaded the situation in our favour. It's as simple as that. When you haven't previously negotiated a long term arrangement (say after first year), you leave yourself open. There's no contingency/ protection against the situation the club now finds itself in with Irving to counterbalance his options/ provide Hearts with a decent fee.

[JimmyCant]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

We'll be challenging for a European spot next season and we have a realistic chance of silverware every season. What lower league English or even abroad clubs can offer that? Unless you think he's going to go to a top 6 English or European club and straight into the team and not their U23s which is, er, unlikely.

Money is a factor here which you are ignoring. If his agent can get him a gig in the EPL or the championship he’ll be on at LEAST double what we can offer him at the top end. There are literally hundreds of average or below players in England earning 20k plus a week who don’t give a shit about silverware and second or third tier European football

Edited February 2, 2021 by JimmyCant

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, JimmyCant said:

Money is a factor here which you are ignoring. If his agent can get him a gig in the EPL or the championship he’ll be on at LEAST double what we can offer him at the top end.

 

 

Who in the EPL is after Irving? Or the Championship for that matter? If he can find a club who will play him and he has a shot at the EPL, sure why wouldn't he go for it with the wages to go along with that. Point is he can stay with us 3 years and get an even better move and ultimately make even more money if he's as good as he and we think he might be. The game is littered with players who took the money down south and were up the road again within a year or so.

[Last Laff]

55 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

From the bench maybe. You've obviously not been following what tends to happen to our and other youngsters who head down the M8 too early. Disagree about Scotland caps. The OF tend not to play younger players so the young guys who get capped are often at other clubs.

 

Unless you are Lee Wallace, Kevin Thomson, Steven Whittaker, Steven Naismith, Kris Boyd, Steven Thompson, Scott Brown, Ryan Christie, Leigh Giffiths, Alan McLaren, John Colins, Andy Goram, Kenny Miller, Stephen Pearson, Phil Odonnell, Tom Boyd, Ryan Jack you are certainly right.

 

If a player fancies himself as good enough to play for them and will succeed they will go.  And why not? 

[JimmyCant]

Hang on a minute, this is a guy with the potential to be a great. Beyond potential as someone else said. You’re telling me no one down south will be aware of him, alerted to him, keeping tabs on what’s happening with him. Why would he even think about fecking around for 3 years up here on £2k a week waiting for the move and the chance he could have had now and that might never come again.

[Last Laff]

26 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

 

Unless you are Lee Wallace, Kevin Thomson, Steven Whittaker, Steven Naismith, Kris Boyd, Steven Thompson, Scott Brown, Ryan Christie, Leigh Giffiths, Alan McLaren, John Colins, Andy Goram, Kenny Miller, Stephen Pearson, Phil Odonnell, Tom Boyd, Ryan Jack you are certainly right.

 

If a player fancies himself as good enough to play for them and will succeed they will go.  And why not? 

There’s that Turnbull thinking he’s good enough to win trophies at Celtic too

as did Armstrong. 

[jr ewing]

46 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

I knew what you meant, jambo 👍

[Jambof3tornado]

6 hours ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

As 

 

 

As soon as he starts playing in the SPFL again (if all goes well and he re-signs) his value will shoot up. That 'wand' of his - and scoring ability - will trouble a lot of teams.

I worry a little about his 1 footed-ness. He often cant get the pass away or has to adjust his stride,but it may be a confidence thing in using his wrong foot.

 

Definitely things that can be worked on.

[soonbe110]

16 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

I worry a little about his 1 footed-ness. He often cant get the pass away or has to adjust his stride,but it may be a confidence thing in using his wrong foot.

 

Definitely things that can be worked on.

Why haven’t they been worked in by now?  Age old question. Tosh McKinlay would have been world class if he even knew he had a right foot never mind used it. 

[TheBigO]

25 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

I worry a little about his 1 footed-ness. He often cant get the pass away or has to adjust his stride,but it may be a confidence thing in using his wrong foot.

 

Definitely things that can be worked on.

 

7 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Why haven’t they been worked in by now?  Age old question. Tosh McKinlay would have been world class if he even knew he had a right foot never mind used it. 

Beat it, the pair of you.

 

I saw Che Adams the other day on motd fluff a simple finish had he used his left foot by instead using the outside of his right and the commentators didn't even coomment. See it all the time and right at the top level.

 

Players all over are "One footed" but only ever mentioned when they're lefties, and very often, as is the case here, it isn't really the case, people just look for it.

 

Like when was the last time you saw, I duno, Steven Naismith, do something with his left beyond the very simple? Ever heard him accused of one-footery?

 

Can you tell I'm a lefty with pent up anger over years of jibes about my standing foot even tho it was perfectly fine*???!!!! Ha ha. I retract my "beat it" and apologise!!!!

 

Really uninterestingly my dad says when I started playing I was very two footed, he couldn't tell which but because of this coaches tended to play me on the left and I kind of started using it more, taking set pieces only with my left etc, until I was a definite left footer. Fact I'm right handed would bear that out.

[CloustonHMFC]

Andy Irving has the potential to have a good career, I wouldn't say its going to be a great career though. Mid table EPL, La Liga or Bundesliga.

 

We should be offering him a fair first team wage but we should absolutely not be breaking our wage structure or making him one of the top earning players.

 

In saying that, I hope we can get him signed up. He'll do a job for us no end and net us a couple million in a few years.

[jr ewing]

Bologna v Milan on Freesports now.

[jr ewing]

8 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Bologna v Milan on Freesports now.

Hickey substitute. 

[GYL]

4 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Sounds like Bologna. 

Different countrys though  🤪

[jr ewing]

1 minute ago, GYL said:

Different countrys though  🤪

My bad.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 hours ago, Last Laff said:

 

Unless you are Lee Wallace, Kevin Thomson, Steven Whittaker, Steven Naismith, Kris Boyd, Steven Thompson, Scott Brown, Ryan Christie, Leigh Giffiths, Alan McLaren, John Colins, Andy Goram, Kenny Miller, Stephen Pearson, Phil Odonnell, Tom Boyd, Ryan Jack you are certainly right.

 

If a player fancies himself as good enough to play for them and will succeed they will go.  And why not? 

 

How many moved at 20? The OF have a long record of buying up kids, including from us, and barely playing them. I didn't realise this was something that was up for debate. The ones you listed who succeeded mostly moved after gaining a lot more experience with their clubs than Irving has.

Edited February 2, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 hours ago, Last Laff said:

There’s that Turnbull thinking he’s good enough to win trophies at Celtic too

as did Armstrong. 

 

The Armstrong and Turnbull that had what 3 or 4 seasons behind them for their clubs in the Premiership and who both moved around 23? How is that comparable to Irving in any way?

 

In a way you're proving my point. Irving should do what they did and learn their trade at a club that will play them then move at 23. The OF often ditch the Scottish players they buy up very quickly. Whatever happened to Jack Hendry, Jack Hastie and Greg Docherty?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Hang on a minute, this is a guy with the potential to be a great. Beyond potential as someone else said. You’re telling me no one down south will be aware of him, alerted to him, keeping tabs on what’s happening with him. Why would he even think about fecking around for 3 years up here on £2k a week waiting for the move and the chance he could have had now and that might never come again.

 

Glad you think so highly of your own football club (allegedly). And if he's that good, he'll get his chance later. Turnbull did. Armstrong did. 

[JimmyCant]

6 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Glad you think so highly of your own football club (allegedly). And if he's that good, he'll get his chance later. Turnbull did. Armstrong did. 

A sure sign you have lost the debate. Accuse the other person of not being a Hearts fan. Let’s leave it there and see what Irving does in the short term, and the long term for that matter. Little doubt if he leaves he’ll get pilloried for the crime of trying to improve himself and taking a massive opportunity.

Edited February 3, 2021 by JimmyCant

[Lfhearts]

Why would he stay? If he gets any decent offer is bound to go, our fault for not sorting the contract position out earlier.

[jambocub]

11 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Hang on a minute, this is a guy with the potential to be a great. Beyond potential as someone else said. You’re telling me no one down south will be aware of him, alerted to him, keeping tabs on what’s happening with him. Why would he even think about fecking around for 3 years up here on £2k a week waiting for the move and the chance he could have had now and that might never come again.

Surely someone would make a bid for him in the last window 

 

I'd give him until the leagues won to commit to us ,if he's not staying then I'd put mcgill in to get some experience 

[Bazzas right boot]

12 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Specifically Hearts ? No other clubs could develop him AND pay him 4 or 5 times as much as we can and provide a bigger window and an easier path to the big time ?  Christ we’ve got miles to go before we’re playing European football regularly and for us silverware is jumping over 4 or 5 hurdles for a cup every 8 years or so. This is not about Hearts now. There is nothing more we can do. It’s about Andy Irving, his ambition, his path to achieving his ambition, his financial desires. He might well think that all of those things are better served getting away from Hearts no matter what is on the table there

 

Other clubs could develop him, but we got in Europe on promotion last time and we've been in 2 Cup finals recently, in Scotland Hearts are a good choice, even just now. 

Hearts also pay among the best outside the of in Scotland. 

 

English clubs might pay more and the of would pay more but there are no rumours of any big clubs interested, are there? 

 

Agree with last part, it is looking Likley he'll leave. 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Smith's right boot

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Lfhearts said:

Why would he stay? If he gets any decent offer is bound to go, our fault for not sorting the contract position out earlier.

 

How do you "sort out the contract earlier" if he doesn't want to sign one? 

 

 

[JimmyCant]

38 minutes ago, jambocub said:

Surely someone would make a bid for him in the last window 

 

I'd give him until the leagues won to commit to us ,if he's not staying then I'd put mcgill in to get some experience 

I’m sure his agent will be all over his next move, if that’s what he’s doing and no one is going to pay a decent fee when they can pick him up for next to nothing in the summer.

 

Im not sure how long we carry on hoping he’ll extend before we have to start thinking about our midfield next season. One thing that would bother me is he should be telling the club NOW if he has decided he is leaving.

[soonbe110]

10 hours ago, TheBigO said:

 

Beat it, the pair of you.

 

I saw Che Adams the other day on motd fluff a simple finish had he used his left foot by instead using the outside of his right and the commentators didn't even coomment. See it all the time and right at the top level.

 

Players all over are "One footed" but only ever mentioned when they're lefties, and very often, as is the case here, it isn't really the case, people just look for it.

 

Like when was the last time you saw, I duno, Steven Naismith, do something with his left beyond the very simple? Ever heard him accused of one-footery?

 

Can you tell I'm a lefty with pent up anger over years of jibes about my standing foot even tho it was perfectly fine*???!!!! Ha ha. I retract my "beat it" and apologise!!!!

 

Really uninterestingly my dad says when I started playing I was very two footed, he couldn't tell which but because of this coaches tended to play me on the left and I kind of started using it more, taking set pieces only with my left etc, until I was a definite left footer. Fact I'm right handed would bear that out.

All good points but give me a two footed player every time. Then you get goals like Salah’s last weekend. 

[JimmyCant]

4 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Other clubs could develop him, but we got in Europe on promotion last time and we've been in 2 Cup finals recently, in Scotland Hearts are a good choice, even just now. 

Hearts also pay among the best outside the of in Scotland. 

 

English clubs might pay more and the of would pay more but there are no rumours of any big clubs interested, are there? 

 

Agree with last part, it is looking Likley he'll leave. 

 

Ach you know, is playing in the qualifying rounds of non champions league Europe really a big deal for an ambitious player ? Does it get you noticed ?

 

When it boils down to it, no matter how we feel about our club and what’s really best for it, this is about what is best for Andy Irving’s bank balance. You don’t turn down opportunities to earn big bucks in this game. You take the chance when it’s offered as it might never come again. Very few players put loyalty and gratitude first. Very few even think about the best course for overall career development. Put £10k + a week on the table and 99% are taking it even if it means you’ve got nothing tangible to show for your career except your bank balance. £10k a week for 3 or 4 years means you never have to worry about money again in your life.

[Bazzas right boot]

8 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The Armstrong and Turnbull that had what 3 or 4 seasons behind them for their clubs in the Premiership and who both moved around 23? How is that comparable to Irving in any way?

 

In a way you're proving my point. Irving should do what they did and learn their trade at a club that will play them then move at 23. The OF often ditch the Scottish players they buy up very quickly. Whatever happened to Jack Hendry, Jack Hastie and Greg Docherty?

 

Holt, Allan, Templeton Cummings older players like Jones, Stewart if you go back the list is endless. 

 

Jack done well but was an experienced top 3 player with European football behind him. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Smith's right boot

[Deevers]

17 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

How do you "sort out the contract earlier" if he doesn't want to sign one? 

 

 

Exactly.  We can only do what we can do. If he’s made up his mind that he’s off at the end of the season then there is not a lot we can do to alter that in my opinion. Let’s just see how all of this plays out in the next couple of weeks. As I’ve said earlier I don’t think anyone really knows where these negotiations are at present apart from Irving, his agent and whoever at Hearts is dealing with this. 

[Lfhearts]

35 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

How do you "sort out the contract earlier" if he doesn't want to sign one? 

 

 

Duh because we have missed the boat, last season should have been sorted.

[Dia Liom]

Though it's fun to speculate, as this thread shows, there are many factors involved that will never be known.  Football isn't an exact science either, we could tie him up on a big money 4 year deal and he could get a bad injury on Friday night.

 

The way I see it, we clearly can't compete with some interested teams in the wages we can offer.  A championship or prem team in england, or rangers/celtic, could pay him a few grand a week and be happy for him to sit in the reserves or go on loan, whereas it would be a massive risk for us.  That rules out making him a top earner.

 

What we can offer is first team opportunities in an environment that he has grown up in.  He has, in my eyes, been developed well so far.  He's now a first team player and should be rewarded with a decent wage rise, with incentives built in the longer he stays and the better he performs.

 

[SUTOL]

40 minutes ago, Lfhearts said:

Duh because we have missed the boat, last season should have been sorted.

 

What if he didn't want to sign an extension last season? 

[Rogue Daddy]

9 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The Armstrong and Turnbull that had what 3 or 4 seasons behind them for their clubs in the Premiership and who both moved around 23? How is that comparable to Irving in any way?

 

In a way you're proving my point. Irving should do what they did and learn their trade at a club that will play them then move at 23. The OF often ditch the Scottish players they buy up very quickly. Whatever happened to Jack Hendry, Jack Hastie and Greg Docherty?

Aint that the truth!... remember Paul Ritchie? Had just broken into the national squad (and scored on his debut IIRC), Rangers 'snapped him up', didn't get a game, loaned to Wigan (and spent most of his time injured), came back to Rangers and had a handful of sub appearances only to retire early from the game due to his injuries. What a waste. And all in the name of the uglies buying up the 'best of the rest.'

[Cruyff]

I think we'll know soon about whether Irving signs or not. There will be guys available on pre contracts in his role and if he's not staying we will have to plan ahead to next season.