***Official Heart of Midlothian v Ayr United Thread***

[ramrod]

7 hours ago, Cruyff said:

The 3rd could happen to anyone tbf. Smith's header back was what you'd do but it was a bit casual. The defending after it was comical. 

 

I thought the 2nd was worse. Halkett has been playing alright but every single game he does something too casual that either does or almost costs us a goal. Those two shabby half arsed clearances v Dunfermline and Celtic, then today he's caught wanting 4 or 5 touches thinking he's feckin Beckenbaur. 

Personally I don't think Halkett has the intelligence to make it consistently at the top level. He has ability but far to many brain fades. 

I'd try Berra and Popescu against Arbroath. 

As Andreas Pirlo said "Football is played in the head, the feet are just the tools "

[JimmyCant]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

He said first 11 not first team squad. 

He said 90% of the current squad wouldn’t be near the first 11 next season. That’s about 20 redundant bodies from this years squad and a squad rebuild bigger than any we’ve done for the last 5 years.  He’s talking shite.

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

He said 90% of the current squad wouldn’t be near the first 11 next season. That’s about 20 redundant bodies from this years squad and a squad rebuild bigger than any we’ve done for the last 5 years.  He’s talking shite.

Assumed he meant first pick 11. Nobody expects 20 transfers. 8 or 9 would be realistic. In saying that CL signed 19 including loans in the season after cathro. I hope we don’t do anything as radical as that. It’s quality we need not quantity.

Edited December 27, 2020 by GinRummy

[JimmyCant]

10 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Assumed he meant first pick 11. Nobody expects 20 transfers. 8 or 9 would be realistic. In saying that CL signed 19 including loans in the season after cathro. I hope we don’t do anything as radical as that. It’s quality we need not quantity.

We’ve got around 8-10 in the squad who would probably be good enough for the top league. We’ve got roughly the same number out of contract or expired loans and maybe 2 of those we’d want to keep. We’ve got virtually nothing coming through from the academy and those that might be worth a run not getting any kind of chance because we’ve been signing dross for years. 
 

All that won’t be fixed in one go. We’ll probably have around 10 in and 10 out. We’ve no one we can sell for decent money  and even if we did we can’t afford like for like replacement.

 

There will be players in our squad next season who won’t be good enough for Hearts. Our first 11 will be considerably better you would hope because if it looks anything like it looks now,we’ll be fighting relegation or at best, bottom 6 but not in serious trouble. 
 

But you’re not going to see a complete new squad and you’re probably still going to see players like Wighton, Roberts, Halkett, Berra, Walker,Lee in and around the first team. Players who are not good enough and been proved not good enough, will still be here figuring on match days And not just one or two.

 

 

[The Hogfather]

I just find it crazy that people look upon the 5-3 win over Kilmarnock in 1997 with such fondness, yet the reaction to this one from some is almost as bad as if we'd lost the game.

[Billy Hoyle]

1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

They'll play apart until the seasons end. 

I think at least 1 will play v Alloa, especially if white has covid and Gino is not 100%.

Frear, Roberts, we should have too much for Alloa no matter what. 

 

Dundee away will be the far harder game and with dunfermline next we have a chance to pretty much end the title race with 3 wins from 3.

It’s Arbroath we play luckily as Alloa actually beat us last time. 👍🏻

[JimmyCant]

14 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

I just find it crazy that people look upon the 5-3 win over Kilmarnock in 1997 with such fondness, yet the reaction to this one from some is almost as bad as if we'd lost the game.

The reaction isn’t over the result. The reaction is over the ponderously slow and fractured way we played for the first hour or so and the fact that we went behind before anyone starting breaking sweat. Yesterday was a good result in the end because it was a win by 2 clear goals but it was based on 20 minutes we actually got out of first gear and that culture has been around the club and the team for a good number of years now. It’s like we don’t get this team to work hard until it’s embarrassed into it. These insipid half hearted half paced performances are a big part of the reason we’re in this league. Try doing that next season and you’ll get your arse handed to you most weeks.

Edited December 27, 2020 by JimmyCant

[Debut 4]

14 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

I just find it crazy that people look upon the 5-3 win over Kilmarnock in 1997 with such fondness, yet the reaction to this one from some is almost as bad as if we'd lost the game.

Come on....lol.  Trying to draw comparisons with a top level season/team and yesterday?

[Debut 4]

5 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

The reaction isn’t over the result. The reaction is over the ponderously slow and fractured way we played for the first hour or so and the fact that we went behind before anyone starting breaking sweat. Yesterday was a good result in the end because it was a win by 2 clear goals but it was based on 20 minutes we actually got out of first gear and that culture has been around the club and the team for a good number of years now. It’s like we don’t get this team to work hard until it’s embarrassed into it. These insipid half hearted half paced performances are a big part of the reason we’re in this league.

Got to agree. But many can’t go to the roots and see why we have the problems we do. 

 

Its the coaching teams job to look deeper than results and see what’s required further down the line when we play stronger, faster, more tenacious sides who won’t allow us time and certainly won’t let us get away with being ponderous from the start of matches.  
 

We still have some bad habits to shake that still hang around.

[davemclaren]

22 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

I just find it crazy that people look upon the 5-3 win over Kilmarnock in 1997 with such fondness, yet the reaction to this one from some is almost as bad as if we'd lost the game.

It is all a bit odd. 

[JimmyCant]

11 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Got to agree. But many can’t go to the roots and see why we have the problems we do. 

 

Its the coaching teams job to look deeper than results and see what’s required further down the line when we play stronger, faster, more tenacious sides who won’t allow us time and certainly won’t let us get away with being ponderous from the start of matches.  
 

We still have some bad habits to shake that still hang around.

It’s worrying when we need Naismith to come on and kick some arses and do a bit of organisation mid game when we’ve got Neilson and McCulloch on the side lines and with the players all week, seemingly unable to get this team to get out of the blocks.

 

There is an upside though, because for 20 minutes yesterday we looked like we could score 10 against anyone in this league. If we can extend that 20 minutes to an hour one of these days we could well see double figures against someone again.

Edited December 27, 2020 by JimmyCant

[Bazzas right boot]

20 minutes ago, Billy Hoyle said:

It’s Arbroath we play luckily as Alloa actually beat us last time. 👍🏻

 

🙄😂

[davemclaren]

26 minutes ago, Billy Hoyle said:

It’s Arbroath we play luckily as Alloa actually beat us last time. 👍🏻

Not in the league. 🎅🏼

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

I just find it crazy that people look upon the 5-3 win over Kilmarnock in 1997 with such fondness, yet the reaction to this one from some is almost as bad as if we'd lost the game.

In 1997 we were in the top league playing an exciting brand of football

 

Yesterday we played  fairly slow and predictable football (until 2 1 down) in the 2nd tier against a poor Ayr Utd team.

 

Good thing is we won and no harm done from the downside. 

[Mikey1874]

35 minutes ago, Candy said:

In 1997 we were in the top league playing an exciting brand of football

 

Yesterday we played  fairly slow and predictable football (until 2 1 down) in the 2nd tier against a poor Ayr Utd team.

 

Good thing is we won and no harm done from the downside. 

 

Utterly amazing that football games can be different 

[3fingersreid]

I might be in the minority here but I enjoyed the game , I’d rather see us win 5-3 than 2-0 . Whilst there wasn’t a stand out performer , a couple were slightly better than the rest but top of the league, scoring plenty goals and putting a smile on my grumpy face means I’m not going to criticise any of the players 

Mon the Hearts 🇱🇻🇱🇻🇱🇻🇱🇻🇱🇻

[Boof]

Not related to yesterday's game in particular but does anyone else have just a little difficulty in picking out a referee wearing black at a quick glance when we're wearing our home shirts?

[Haringshairband]

Can't believe people are actually moaning about us winning 5-3, strange place this.

[jimbojambo]

A very exciting game against a team competing for the play offs and once again showed a fighting spirit that we have lacked in recent years so lots of positives. Plenty to work on but a bit like the Stendel days where if we attack from every position the opposition will get chances too so we will lose goals but who cares when we score more? 

[Tazio]

18 minutes ago, Boof said:

Not related to yesterday's game in particular but does anyone else have just a little difficulty in picking out a referee wearing black at a quick glance when we're wearing our home shirts?

I thought that last week, especially as we were in maroon shorts. Even worse when it rains and the strips get darker as they get wet. 

[Cruyff]

2 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

So we’re keeping approx 3 players and signing around 20 then ?

[Boof]

1 minute ago, Tazio said:

I thought that last week, especially as we were in maroon shorts. Even worse when it rains and the strips get darker as they get wet. 

 

Phew - not just my elderly peepers then

 

I suppose the ref isn't going to make the confusion but with the range of kits available to them, surely they could wear something markedly different?

[Cruyff]

2 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

He said 90% of the current squad wouldn’t be near the first 11 next season. That’s about 20 redundant bodies from this years squad and a squad rebuild bigger than any we’ve done for the last 5 years.  He’s talking shite.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Cruyff

[Turkishcap]

Did not see the game but going by reports and posts on here this is my take fwiw. Coming off the back of a cup final we could have won, crap weather no crowed motivation and finding its only Ayr, to come back from 1-2 to hit 4 goals in 21 mins proves to me if we had the same effort as 2nd half and extra time of last week I think it could have been double figures. 

 

We are too good for this league but we have to show it and prove it even if not all the players are fans favorites. Roll on Tuesday.

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Haringshairband said:

Can't believe people are actually moaning about us winning 5-3, strange place this.

 

If I can add to my point, in terms of criticism is that Neilson and his coaching team have just arrived. 

 

You need time and the attacking potential of the team shown so far in spells is a really good start. 

 

Players will change too. Hopefully a better wide player next month to glue the attack together. 

[chrystaf]

2 hours ago, Candy said:

In 1997 we were in the top league playing an exciting brand of football

 

Yesterday we played  fairly slow and predictable football (until 2 1 down) in the 2nd tier against a poor Ayr Utd team.

 

Good thing is we won and no harm done from the downside. 

OK, but the problem is that if we continue the casual approach in other games, some teams will not let us back in like Ayr did.  

As mentioned in several posts, we should never be shipping three in this league.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, chrystaf said:

OK, but the problem is that if we continue the casual approach in other games, some teams will not let us back in like Ayr did.  

As mentioned in several posts, we should never be shipping three in this league.

I certainly don't disagree with any of that.

 

Its understandable that there is a such a focus on our frailties for the  reasons you mentioned 

[Mikey1874]

12 minutes ago, chrystaf said:

OK, but the problem is that if we continue the casual approach in other games, some teams will not let us back in like Ayr did.  

As mentioned in several posts, we should never be shipping three in this league.

 

Doesn't matter when you score more. 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

1 hour ago, Haringshairband said:

Can't believe people are actually moaning about us winning 5-3, strange place this.

If we went this season winning every game 2-0 or 5-3 we’d have a goal difference of +54.

I know what score line I’d like.

Craig Gordon maybe not so much.

[Billy Hoyle]

10 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Doesn't matter when you score more. 

It doesn’t matter when you score 5 but what worries me is we didn’t kick start into action until we were 2-1 down. In the cup final we didn’t do anything until 46th minute. 
That’s a worrying pattern. We are notoriously slow starters and I just wish we could be at it right from the start more often. We have shown we can do it we just need to do it more often and not let teams back into matches. 

[maroonsgotop]

47 minutes ago, Turkishcap said:

Did not see the game but going by reports and posts on here this is my take fwiw. Coming off the back of a cup final we could have won, crap weather no crowed motivation and finding its only Ayr, to come back from 1-2 to hit 4 goals in 21 mins proves to me if we had the same effort as 2nd half and extra time of last week I think it could have been double figures. 

 

We are too good for this league but we have to show it and prove it even if not all the players are fans favorites. Roll on Tuesday.

it was 4 in 13 minutes (68 to 81 mins) which showed what we are capable off

[Bazzas right boot]

4 minutes ago, Billy Hoyle said:

It doesn’t matter when you score 5 but what worries me is we didn’t kick start into action until we were 2-1 down. In the cup final we didn’t do anything until 46th minute. 
That’s a worrying pattern. We are notoriously slow starters and I just wish we could be at it right from the start more often. We have shown we can do it we just need to do it more often and not let teams back into matches. 

 

 

The problem with the last part is that the other team is trying the exact opposite. 

It's almost like the are not letting us do what we want right from the start and are trying thier own tactics to win the game. 

 

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

22 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Doesn't matter when you score more. 

 

Folk still not getting this. 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

5 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

The problem with the last part is that the other team is trying the exact opposite. 

It's almost like the are not letting us do what we want right from the start and are trying thier own tactics to win the game. 

 

 

 

 

Bar stewards

[4marsbars]

3 hours ago, Candy said:

In 1997 we were in the top league playing an exciting brand of football

 

Yesterday we played  fairly slow and predictable football (until 2 1 down) in the 2nd tier against a poor Ayr Utd team.

 

Good thing is we won and no harm done from the downside. 

 

Maybe we started out cautiously (also took the lead) because Neilson wanted to conserve energy with a busy week ahead.

 

When we needed to step up a gear, lo and behold, we did. Job done. 

 

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

 

Maybe we started out cautiously (also took the lead) because Neilson wanted to conserve energy with a busy week ahead.

 

When we needed to step up a gear, lo and behold, we did. Job done. 

 

 

 Maybe.

 

My post was in response to one wondering why people fondly remembered  a game from 20 odd years ago which ended in the same result as yesterday. 

 

There are definitely  few positives to take from yesterday's game

[Bazzas right boot]

14 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Bar stewards

 

😂😂

 

I honestly think folk forget That. 

 

Folk seem to. Think if we do x, y and z and replicate it over 90 minutes, then a season we'll be dandy, and when we don't, why Don't we? 

 

The best one is, we should press them high.... But what if the other team press us high? 

 

Mind blown I fear for some. 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

What a lot of wind and pish on here.

 

Game lasts 90 minutes,  coming off the roller coaster of last Sunday,  quite some reaction to going 2 1 down. 

 

Folk really need to get a grip, blood pressure must be awful 

[Des Lynam]

10 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

What a lot of wind and pish on here.

 

Game lasts 90 minutes,  coming off the roller coaster of last Sunday,  quite some reaction to going 2 1 down. 

 

Folk really need to get a grip, blood pressure must be awful 

Ah you’re like a rennie’s on Christmas Day. Well said. 

[Turkishcap]

47 minutes ago, maroonsgotop said:

it was 4 in 13 minutes (68 to 81 mins) which showed what we are capable off

Ta, even better!

[baxterd1974]

12 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

What a lot of wind and pish on here.

 

Game lasts 90 minutes,  coming off the roller coaster of last Sunday,  quite some reaction to going 2 1 down. 

 

Folk really need to get a grip, blood pressure must be awful 

Absolutely,  the lack of credit is a disgrace. Team went through the mill last week, went behind against Ayr and came back for a comfortable win. Two guys who had massive disappointment last week show mental fortitude to put in solid goalscoring performances. 

[Boyces beard]

18 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

What a lot of wind and pish on here.

 

Game lasts 90 minutes,  coming off the roller coaster of last Sunday,  quite some reaction to going 2 1 down. 

 

Folk really need to get a grip, blood pressure must be awful 

This

[Gorgie Boot boy]

52 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

The problem with the last part is that the other team is trying the exact opposite. 

It's almost like the are not letting us do what we want right from the start and are trying thier own tactics to win the game. 

 

 

 

lol.

They should just step aside, forget about their own destiny.

 

 

[The Hogfather]

4 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

Come on....lol.  Trying to draw comparisons with a top level season/team and yesterday?

 

I'm not comparing the games, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the idiots who're desperate to whinge after Hearts won again. 

 

4 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Yesterday was a good result

 

 

3 hours ago, Candy said:

Good thing is we won

 

I'm glad you two can be gracious enough to see this. You do realise the performance matters not a jot, right? The job is to win enough games to get us out of this tinpot league and back to where we belong. We've scored 14 goals in our last three games, including 3 against Celtic. This incessant need for things to be wrong at every turn is just ****ing exhausting.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Nunya Business said:

 

I'm not comparing the games, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the idiots who're desperate to whinge after Hearts won again. 

 

 

 

 

I'm glad you two can be gracious enough to see this. You do realise the performance matters not a jot, right? The job is to win enough games to get us out of this tinpot league and back to where we belong. We've scored 14 goals in our last three games, including 3 against Celtic. This incessant need for things to be wrong at every turn is just ****ing exhausting.

I think you may be  misunderstanding me.  It seems many on here can only take a position of good or bad. Im saying there were both positives and negatives and we can learn from these.

 

I'm delighted that we scored 5 and even more so that we showed resilience after going down. Wighton, Kingsley and Naismith were all major positives too

[Gorgie Boot boy]

2 minutes ago, Candy said:

I think you may be  misunderstanding me.  It seems many on here can only take a position of good or bad. Im saying there were both positives and negatives and we can learn from these.

 

I'm delighted that we scored 5 and even more so that we showed resilience after going down. Wighton, Kingsley and Naismith were all major positives too

Halliday also ran his socks off and produced some balls into the danger zone.

 

[JimmyCant]

17 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

I'm not comparing the games, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the idiots who're desperate to whinge after Hearts won again. 

 

 

 

 

I'm glad you two can be gracious enough to see this. You do realise the performance matters not a jot, right? The job is to win enough games to get us out of this tinpot league and back to where we belong. We've scored 14 goals in our last three games, including 3 against Celtic. This incessant need for things to be wrong at every turn is just ****ing exhausting.

The level of performance is an indicator as to whether we’re getting out of this league as easily as it should be. When you’re conceding 3 goals to a tinpot team in a tinpot league you need to address it because there will undoubtedly be times we won’t score 5 in reply. Dundee and Dunfermline coming up soon. If we concede 3 to them were likely to lose both IMO.

 

We conceded 3 and got away with it because of a deadly 20 minutes. We won’t get away with it very often and definitely not against better teams this season and beyond.

Edited December 27, 2020 by JimmyCant

[scott herbertson]

3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

The level of performance is an indicator as to whether we’re getting out of this league as easily as it should be. When you’re conceding 3 goals to a tinpot team in a tinpot league you need to address it because there will undoubtedly be times we won’t score 5 in reply. Dundee and Dunfermline coming up soon. If we concede 3 to them were likely to lose both IMO.

 

 

If we score 5 they are unlikely to score 3 in reply as well

 

Every score is 'unlikely' as the odds are against it happening

 

Every game is different

 

Just need to win them, and we did so I'm happy

[wavydavy]

2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

The level of performance is an indicator as to whether we’re getting out of this league as easily as it should be. When you’re conceding 3 goals to a tinpot team in a tinpot league you need to address it because there will undoubtedly be times we won’t score 5 in reply. Dundee and Dunfermline coming up soon. If we concede 3 to them were likely to lose both IMO.

 

Exactly. Add Raith away as well.

[MattyK82]

5 minutes ago, baxterd1974 said:

Absolutely,  the lack of credit is a disgrace. Team went through the mill last week, went behind against Ayr and came back for a comfortable win. Two guys who had massive disappointment last week show mental fortitude to put in solid goalscoring performances. 

Regardless of the match or opposition, faults can be found in virtually any teams performance. Depends on the narrative the person wishes to spin/how pedantic they are.
 

As with the vast majority of Hearts performances this season (I appreciate some performances, particularly in recent seasons, fall into the category of absolutely dreadful with no positives whatsoever), there were plus and negative points yesterday. Without listing all, I thought there were certainly more positives than negatives. Same can be said about this season overall. 

After a turbulent few seasons, imo, we are back on track and have the makings of a good side. Performances in ‘last seasons’ SC, against Hibs and Celtic, helps prove this (if one is to argue performances in the championship cannot be used as a barometer).