Hickey - signs for Bologna

[Neil Dongcaster]

10 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

All this stuff about 'doing' Celtic out of a sell-on percentage: frankly it wouldn't bother me a bit if Celtic made 33% of a big transfer if we got 66%.

 

They would still be kicking themselves and we would still have pulled off a coup.

It’s the message it sends for me. Only Hearts.

[upgotheheads]

8 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

Bollocks to that.  I don't want to give those ****ers the steam from my morning pish.

 

6 minutes ago, Neil Dongcaster said:

It’s the message it sends for me. Only Hearts.

 

If we can avoid it then fine, but if we can't then too bad. As I said, 66% of something when you might have had 0% is better than 33% when you might have had 100%

[colinmaroon]

59 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Unless you've seen the detail of the transfer agreement between Hearts and Celtic, I don't see how you can possibly know this. Whether or not Celtic are entitled to a percentage of the loan fee will depend on the wording of the contract.

 

For an example of the complexity and variance in sell on agreements see for example this case arbitrated by CAS:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://jurisprudence.tas-cas.org/Shared%20Documents/4379.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiSpuWWvtTrAhW5QEEAHQTyDCsQFjALegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1Z-Icw_JurclSGlcjwg6X4

One notable thing about this is that the loan fee that Sunderland originally agreed was included in the calculation of the transfer fee submitted by Al Ain FC. This wasn't disputed by Sunderland but that may be because Sunderland won the case on other grounds.

 

Also worth noting that for the purposes of FFP, UEFA have said 

"that loan deals with “conditional obligation to buy [that is] virtually certain . . . must be recognised by both clubs as a permanent transfer from the inception of the loan agreement”"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/9bd82b30-caf2-11e9-a1f4-3669401ba76f

Again, this doesn't directly resolve the question of whether the club with a sell on clause are entitled to a percentage of the loan fee, but I think suggests it is more likely in a case like the potential sale to Bologna with a commitment to buy at the end of the loan deal.

 

So unless anyone has access to the original contract combined with really good understanding of the law around football contracts, I think all we have is relatively uninformed speculation rather than answers.

 

 

What it should mean is that, if for any reason, Aaron comes back at the end of the season, Celtic don't get a penny from the loan deal.

 

 

[Saint Jambo]

8 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

What it should mean is that, if for any reason, Aaron comes back at the end of the season, Celtic don't get a penny from the loan deal.

 

 

 

Again I don't think you can conclude that unless you've seen the contract. The clause could refer to all income from transfers including temporary transfers (i.e. loans). Given the increase of loan fees in the last decade that definitely wouldn't be a trivial inclusion.

[portobellojambo1]

2 hours ago, Mr Rabbit said:

My understanding is they would get a percentage of the transfer fee but not the loan fee. So if what is quoted is correct it’s a £450k loan fee, which would be all ours, and £900k obligation to buy, which Celtic would be entitled to 30%. 
 

So we get just over a million and Celtic get £270k. Although I think there’s further add ons which Celtic would be entitled to a percentage of also. 

 

It is a little bit complicated but from my understanding what Celtic get is a percentage which relates to the period he was with them as a youth, some sort of training fee or such like. From what appears online today Bologna are now saying it is concluded, and the first year will represent a loan period, and at the conclusion of that they will pay HMFC £1.78 million. Not sure if the proportion that goes to Celtic is dealt with up front or if we pass it on to them when we receive the transfer payment, but Celtic will get something.

[RENE]

The Daily Record said couple of weeks ago that Celtic would be due 25%. So even papers are unsure.

[Spellczech]

 

 

1 hour ago, OTT said:

 

Could play RB? Pretty sure Hickey can use their foot, so may actually be the answer to the RB issue. 

 

Bologna about to sell their 21yr old RB to Premiership for about 15m. Flipping him after one year having signed from Belgium for £8m. Pity we couldn't get Hickey to stay until he was 20...

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8702815/Newcastle-West-Ham-enter-race-16m-rated-Japan-defender-Takehiro-Tomiyasu.html

[Mr Rabbit]

2 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Unless you've seen the detail of the transfer agreement between Hearts and Celtic, I don't see how you can possibly know this. Whether or not Celtic are entitled to a percentage of the loan fee will depend on the wording of the contract.

 

For an example of the complexity and variance in sell on agreements see for example this case arbitrated by CAS:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://jurisprudence.tas-cas.org/Shared%20Documents/4379.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiSpuWWvtTrAhW5QEEAHQTyDCsQFjALegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1Z-Icw_JurclSGlcjwg6X4

One notable thing about this is that the loan fee that Sunderland originally agreed was included in the calculation of the transfer fee submitted by Al Ain FC. This wasn't disputed by Sunderland but that may be because Sunderland won the case on other grounds.

 

Also worth noting that for the purposes of FFP, UEFA have said 

"that loan deals with “conditional obligation to buy [that is] virtually certain . . . must be recognised by both clubs as a permanent transfer from the inception of the loan agreement”"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/9bd82b30-caf2-11e9-a1f4-3669401ba76f

Again, this doesn't directly resolve the question of whether the club with a sell on clause are entitled to a percentage of the loan fee, but I think suggests it is more likely in a case like the potential sale to Bologna with a commitment to buy at the end of the loan deal.

 

So unless anyone has access to the original contract combined with really good understanding of the law around football contracts, I think all we have is relatively uninformed speculation rather than answers.

😂 I didn’t say that I knew. All I said was that my understanding of those types of transfers was the following.

 

You’ve spent more time than I researching other transfers so you’re probably in a better position to give an opinion. However all I ever gave was my opinion. 
 

You’re right that the devil is in the detail of the contract and we won’t possibly know unless hearts wish to divulge what was received or later next year when the company accounts are released.

[Mr Rabbit]

1 hour ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

It is a little bit complicated but from my understanding what Celtic get is a percentage which relates to the period he was with them as a youth, some sort of training fee or such like. From what appears online today Bologna are now saying it is concluded, and the first year will represent a loan period, and at the conclusion of that they will pay HMFC £1.78 million. Not sure if the proportion that goes to Celtic is dealt with up front or if we pass it on to them when we receive the transfer payment, but Celtic will get something.

You’d think that it would be when the money is received as we could technically be out of pocket before then. However I guess once again that’s based on what was agreed or how we want to pay it.

 

Regardless Celtic will get something it’s just how much they get is the question. As much as I would want to screw them over it’s a risky game as it means futures dealings might not be possible.

[Section Q]

2 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Could play RB? Pretty sure Hickey can use their foot, so may actually be the answer to the RB issue. 

He played midfield and right wing for us too....

[Perth to Paisley]

Nice

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

8 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Could play RB? Pretty sure Hickey can use their foot, so may actually be the answer to the RB issue. 

 

 

Was thinking Hickey is worth a go at RB for Scotland. But the most highly rated Scottish teenager around hasn't even been in a Scotland U21 SQUAD yet. He only has 3 U-17 caps 🤣 Good enough as back-up LB at a Serie A club but not even mentioned in a Scotland national context.

 

We're a complete joke at every level of football governance and management.

Edited September 6, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Musemic]

14 hours ago, Neil Dongcaster said:

A fraction of a % of professional footballers get sold for £25m. Nobody is saying it’s impossible but posters seem to have a hard time accepting that it’s just very unlikely Aaron Hickey will be sold for £25m from Bologna.

 

Aston Villa recently signed full back Matty Cash from Nottingham Forest for £16m. He is 23 y/o and has never played above Championship level or represented England at any age group. Aaron is only 18 at the moment so by the time he's 23 (assuming he develops as we all hope he will)  he will have been capped for the national team and played a fair few games in Serie A (assuming, again, he stays with Bologna). For sure £25m is a heck of a lot of money but when bog-standard English teams have multiple £millions to spend would it really be 'very unlikely'?

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Musemic said:

Aston Villa recently signed full back Matty Cash from Nottingham Forest for £16m. He is 23 y/o and has never played above Championship level or represented England at any age group. Aaron is only 18 at the moment so by the time he's 23 (assuming he develops as we all hope he will)  he will have been capped for the national team and played a fair few games in Serie A (assuming, again, he stays with Bologna). For sure £25m is a heck of a lot of money but when bog-standard English teams have multiple £millions to spend would it really be 'very unlikely'?

 

 

There's no reason it would be unlikely - it's all down to Aaron. There's a big difference signing a player from Serie A compared to signing from a  Scottish club. If he does well and 20+ million is the going rate for young left-sided defenders, an EPL team would have no worries paying that for him and there wouldn't be that "but he's only played in Scotland doubt hanging over him to keep the value down". He'd basically be proven at a high level.

[Gav M]

42 minutes ago, Perth to Paisley said:

Nice

 

very nice, odd that the have "we are one" in English on one of them though

[jamboinglasgow]

As a side note while we are waiting for the completion of the Hickey transfer, he wont be the only Scotland eligible player at Bologna. Former Spurs youngster Luis Binks was signed by Bolonga last month. He is currently on loan at Montreal Impact (the club he was signed from and who are owned by the same person as Bologna.) 19 year old midfielder, played for Scotland U18s but most recently for England U19. However reading a very recent interview with him its clear that if the Scotland first team came in for him first then he would be delighted to represent Scotland. Also in the interview, he was asked why he chose to sign for Bologna and he said they were really good at developing youth. His loan ends at the end of the MLS season, so from January both him and Hickey could be in the same matchday squad.

[Ribble]

11 hours ago, Musemic said:

Aston Villa recently signed full back Matty Cash from Nottingham Forest for £16m. He is 23 y/o and has never played above Championship level or represented England at any age group. Aaron is only 18 at the moment so by the time he's 23 (assuming he develops as we all hope he will)  he will have been capped for the national team and played a fair few games in Serie A (assuming, again, he stays with Bologna). For sure £25m is a heck of a lot of money but when bog-standard English teams have multiple £millions to spend would it really be 'very unlikely'?

 

 

Correct, Dongcaster's argument that because Bologna haven't sold anyone for that amount before doesn't hold up either, take Napoli for example, they've never gotten £25m+ for a defender so by his logic that would mean that it's very unlikely that they'll get more than £25m for Koulibaly? 

[Neil Dongcaster]

11 hours ago, Musemic said:

Aston Villa recently signed full back Matty Cash from Nottingham Forest for £16m. He is 23 y/o and has never played above Championship level or represented England at any age group. Aaron is only 18 at the moment so by the time he's 23 (assuming he develops as we all hope he will)  he will have been capped for the national team and played a fair few games in Serie A (assuming, again, he stays with Bologna). For sure £25m is a heck of a lot of money but when bog-standard English teams have multiple £millions to spend would it really be 'very unlikely'?

 

Matty cash is English. English players come at a heavy premium.

 

34 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

Correct, Dongcaster's argument that because Bologna haven't sold anyone for that amount before doesn't hold up either, take Napoli for example, they've never gotten £25m+ for a defender so by his logic that would mean that it's very unlikely that they'll get more than £25m for Koulibaly? 

This is getting tedious. Aaron Hickey might be sold on for £25m but the chances are very slim. 

[Jammy T]

What is Celtic’s record transfer for a player being sold?

[Cruyff]

Just now, Jammy T said:

What is Celtic’s record transfer for a player being sold?

lol 

[Musemic]

1 hour ago, Neil Dongcaster said:

Matty cash is English. English players come at a heavy premium.

 

This is getting tedious. Aaron Hickey might be sold on for £25m but the chances are very slim. 

By that logic Keiran Trippier would be more in demand by English clubs than Andy Robertson or David Alaba for example.😄

 

FWIW I agree that the chances of AH being sold for £25m might be slim but the sky's the limit for him. I'm sure you remember that the aforementioned Andy Robertson was playing amateur football for Queens Park at the same age as AH is now and were he available for transfer I guess the starting price would be around £60m. 

 

 

[Batistuta87]

1 hour ago, Jammy T said:

What is Celtic’s record transfer for a player being sold?

 

Their top 3 is:

Tierney to Arsenal £25M

Dembele to Lyon £20M

VVD to Southampton £15M

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Batistuta87

[Mikey1874]

Billy Dodds put Aaron Hickey into the reserve 'emergency' Scotland team at right back. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54047639

[soonbe110]

13 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Billy Dodds put Aaron Hickey into the reserve 'emergency' Scotland team at right back. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54047639

Explains why he is a (poor) pundit rather than a coach or manager imo 

[BackOfTheNet]

17 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Billy Dodds put Aaron Hickey into the reserve 'emergency' Scotland team at right back. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54047639

To be honest we know Hickey could play there. But it really depends what Bologna do with him. People always wanted to shoehorn Tierney in for example and try and put him at right back when he never played their for Celtic so made no sense. However he is now playing left of a back three with Arsenal so makes sense Scotland play him there too. Hopefully Bologna can turn Hickey into an awesome RWB as Scotland are desperate in that position.

Edited September 7, 2020 by BackOfTheNet

[wavydavy]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-accept-increased-bologna-bid-aaron-hickey-prepares-travel-italy-2963700

[August Landmesser]

13 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-accept-increased-bologna-bid-aaron-hickey-prepares-travel-italy-2963700

So, if Celtic have a 30% cut of this, and if it ends up being £1.8m then they're due £540k, and we get £1.26m - not too shabby for us, but annoying that they get something though

 

I really hope we've organised this loan fee scam...

[Jumper]

On 6 September 2020 at 08:14, part_time_jambo said:

He's a certainty to be in the next Scotland squad now. 

You might be joking,,,,,,,,,,,,, but.

[Jumper]

On 6 September 2020 at 13:42, Sertse said:

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/aaron-hickey-transfer-bologna-hearts-18887459

 

Does this mean septic don't get their fee?

1 year loan with obligation to buy

Please let it be so.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 hours ago, Neil Dongcaster said:

Matty cash is English. English players come at a heavy premium.

 

This is getting tedious. Aaron Hickey might be sold on for £25m but the chances are very slim. 

 

Being English has nothing to do with value, apart from in transfers between English teams. The English transfer market is a circus of its own. Once Hickey is out of Scotland and proves himself elsewhere he'll have as much chance of going for that amount as any young European footballer. John McGinn for example would go for over 20m now. John Fleck would go for a lot. Oli McBurnie, Oli Burke (what is it with being called Oliver and being over-rated?)... a number of Scottish players have gone for big money after leaving Scotland. However, only Celtic or Rangers typically get top dollar as they can afford to hold out for the really big fees.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

To be honest we know Hickey could play there. But it really depends what Bologna do with him. People always wanted to shoehorn Tierney in for example and try and put him at right back when he never played their for Celtic so made no sense. However he is now playing left of a back three with Arsenal so makes sense Scotland play him there too. Hopefully Bologna can turn Hickey into an awesome RWB as Scotland are desperate in that position.

 

Tierney isn't two-footed, not comfortably so anyhow. He should never have been put in at RB for Scotland. That was Alex McLeish's genius idea! Hickey is two-footed and should have been in the full Scotland squad by now.

Edited September 7, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Kiwidoug]

The consolation is that the money Celtic get won't make one iota of difference to the dominarion they and rangers will continue to enjoy.

 

Much better them getting it that any other SPFL club, one in particular.

 

[Jammy T]

8 hours ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

Their top 3 is:

Tierney to Arsenal £25M

Dembele to Lyon £20M

VVD to Southampton £15M

 

So Celtic had never sold a player or a left back for £25m before Tierney.

 

Interesting.

 

How ****ing unlikely was that?

 

Bologna clearly have no chance 🙄

Edited September 7, 2020 by Jammy T

[BackOfTheNet]

Please let tomorrow be the day. Like the guy but he’s agreed to sign for one club or another several times and “will sign next week” for about 3 months now. Get going and start learning Italian on the plane laddie.

[HMFC01]

Noticed mihajlovic is back from his quarantine Tuesday to take training.  Hopefully that means the unveiling of new superstar aaron hickey. I hear he's the balls. 

As an aside, I think someone punched the wrong numbers into the bologna account, causing delay 🤔 

Edited September 7, 2020 by HMFC01

[graygo]

1 hour ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Please let tomorrow be the day. Like the guy but he’s agreed to sign for one club or another several times and “will sign next week” for about 3 months now. Get going and start learning Italian on the plane laddie.

 

The player and his representatives haven't said anything to be fair to them.

[Pans Jambo]

Is it today is it today....I'm really excited!!!!

 

BORED WITH THIS SHIT NOW!

[BackOfTheNet]

7 hours ago, graygo said:

 

The player and his representatives haven't said anything to be fair to them.

Oh I know, I’m not blaming Hickey himself on this one. But there has been talk from last summer about him moving (was Man City then) and it has always been a bubbling issue, but pretty much as soon as COVID relegated us it’s been non-stop with Hickey chat and folk/papers saying he’ll be off “next week” or “the coming days”. It’s just way past tedious now and I’d like the saga to be done with so all parties, Hickey included, can move on.

Edited September 8, 2020 by BackOfTheNet

[Baxfee]

Who will announce it first? Hearts saying he’s away and wish him well or Bologna with scarf above the heid? 

[kingantti1874]

This is getting tedious, would prefer it to get done so we can move on and use the money to strengthen where we need to

[BackOfTheNet]

Do we at least know if he’s flown out or is he still in Edinburgh?

[Mikey1874]

Scotsman say there was 'interest from Celtic'. £1.8 million. 

 

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-accept-increased-bologna-bid-aaron-hickey-prepares-travel-italy-2963700

[Harry Potter]

7 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Do we at least know if he’s flown out or is he still in Edinburgh?

dunno.Oh wait, he prepares to travel,

Edited September 8, 2020 by Harry Potter

[Neil Dongcaster]

9 hours ago, BarneyBattles said:

The chances however will in no way be dependent on the frankly rather strange logic you’ve applied. 

There is nothing strange about the logic I’ve applied. The a chances of Aaron Hickey being sold By Bologna for £25m+ are slim. There is nothing outrageous about this opinion.
 

Unfortunately on this forum people can’t see reality when it comes to Hearts or anything associated with Hearts.
 

See the court case thread for some blatant examples. Or the fact so many on here supported CL way past his sell by date. 

 

[Midloth_Iain]

Fly today

Medical tomorrow

Assuming all ok, signs Thursday - announced late Thursday.

Celtic bid 5pm Thursday - offer a reserve player and £500k. Told to GTF

[Mikey1874]

9 hours ago, HMFC01 said:

Noticed mihajlovic is back from his quarantine Tuesday to take training.  Hopefully that means the unveiling of new superstar aaron hickey. I hear he's the balls. 

As an aside, I think someone punched the wrong numbers into the bologna account, causing delay 🤔 

 

 

[ericb]

I'm happy its taking time, to me it shows we are fully protecting ourselves in the deal.

[Neil Dongcaster]

2 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

It's your opinion though, it's not reality. I'm not saying it's a certainty, or even likely but saying it's extremely unlikely, e.g. because Bologna have never sold a player for that amount doesn't make much sense. No club had ever sold a player for that amount until they did! 

 

Anyway, probably nit-picking so I'll leave it there. As I sometimes say to my 6 year old, feel free to have the last word if you feel the need😊

Last words.

 

[upgotheheads]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Scotsman say there was 'interest from Celtic'. £1.8 million. 

 

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-accept-increased-bologna-bid-aaron-hickey-prepares-travel-italy-2963700

 

If hearts valued Hickey at £1.5 million and eventually get £1.8 million they've effectively got Bologna to pay the majority of the sell-on fee. Cute business dealing.

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

 

De Chambeau wannabe