Hickey - signs for Bologna

[Guest ToqueJambo]

37 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

Sorry to butt in but not sure how you can be so sure of that. He's just turned 18, has played 30 odd games for us, has less than a year left on his contract and we've just sold him for £1.5m. 

 

If he keeps progressing then him being sold for a fee equal to the fee celtic got for Tierney isn't that much of a stretch of the imagination.

Follow the script man! Hearts players bad, other teams’ players good

[andi17]

18 hours ago, henryheart said:

 

They boycotted the last game of the season at Tynecastle in the early 70's. They were protesting at overcrowding at Tynecastle when they had knocked us out of the cup earlier in the season - the last 40,000 gate at Tynie and in all honesty it was rather uncomfortable and I ended up behind a pylon at the Gorgie Road end and had a very poor view.  As for the boycott game, it was a rather good afternoon for those of us who were there; we won 4-1 and very few Celtic fans turned up. 

The cup replay was a scary night my dad took me [ i was 10 ]and left early and wouldn't let me go to a smeltic game till i was 14 said the popes eleven and there fans were the scum of the earth 

[Finlay James]

20 minutes ago, andi17 said:

The cup replay was a scary night my dad took me [ i was 10 ]and left early and wouldn't let me go to a smeltic game till i was 14 said the popes eleven and there fans were the scum of the earth 

 

Youre dad was correct

[Mister T]

21 minutes ago, andi17 said:

The cup replay was a scary night my dad took me [ i was 10 ]and left early and wouldn't let me go to a smeltic game till i was 14 said the popes eleven and there fans were the scum of the earth 

Your Dad was right. 

[TorinoJambo]

1 hour ago, andi17 said:

The cup replay was a scary night my dad took me [ i was 10 ]and left early and wouldn't let me go to a smeltic game till i was 14 said the popes eleven and there fans were the scum of the earth 

Scary indeed but for the Celtic fans mainly. Every hooligan in Edinburgh turned out to exact revenge for the trouble at the first game. Derek Renton equalised with the last kick and the fighting after that was the worst I've seen in my 66 years. It was like Custers last stand around the buses. I saw a Jambo get his face slashed. The replay was all ticket so they were outnumbered for the first time in years. Even the Celtic team bus got leathered. I was 17 and not into that sort of stuff but if any lot deserved a doing it was them (and the other arse cheek had it been them). Ironically, I started at Glasgow University the following October and many new mates were Celtic fans. Most accepted it was deserved.

[BackOfTheNet]

As much as I’d like a sell on clause to be part of the deal (would be insane not to have one) let’s remember we’re dealing with an Italian club, what’s rife over there is co-ownership deals and loan to buy deals, so chances of getting much of a sell on may be slim anyway. Certainly hoping he plays well enough to warrant a fee in the future though.

[Wilson]

2 hours ago, TorinoJambo said:

Scary indeed but for the Celtic fans mainly. Every hooligan in Edinburgh turned out to exact revenge for the trouble at the first game. Derek Renton equalised with the last kick and the fighting after that was the worst I've seen in my 66 years. It was like Custers last stand around the buses. I saw a Jambo get his face slashed. The replay was all ticket so they were outnumbered for the first time in years. Even the Celtic team bus got leathered. I was 17 and not into that sort of stuff but if any lot deserved a doing it was them (and the other arse cheek had it been them). Ironically, I started at Glasgow University the following October and many new mates were Celtic fans. Most accepted it was deserved.

I recall much the same. Did Celtic not win that replay with a handball into the net by Macari.?

[tcjambo]

1 hour ago, Wilson said:

I recall much the same. Did Celtic not win that replay with a handball into the net by Macari.?

Worst violence I've seen. Celtic fans chucking beer bottles from the back of the Wheatfield. Some had urine in them. The Hearts fans at the front spilled onto the pitch to avoid them and got the blame in the press i think.  That night ended any illusions I had about the scummy barstewards. i was 14 atthe time and my grandfather and dad never went to another game.

[Seymour M Hersh]

8 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

As much as I’d like a sell on clause to be part of the deal (would be insane not to have one) let’s remember we’re dealing with an Italian club, what’s rife over there is co-ownership deals and loan to buy deals, so chances of getting much of a sell on may be slim anyway. Certainly hoping he plays well enough to warrant a fee in the future though.

 

Do you reckon they'll "make us an offer we can't refuse" and if we do Ann will find Shergar's head at the bottom of her bed? 

[Neil Dongcaster]

12 hours ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

Sorry to butt in but not sure how you can be so sure of that. He's just turned 18, has played 30 odd games for us, has less than a year left on his contract and we've just sold him for £1.5m. 

 

If he keeps progressing then him being sold for a fee equal to the fee celtic got for Tierney isn't that much of a stretch of the imagination.

A fraction of a % of professional footballers get sold for £25m. Nobody is saying it’s impossible but posters seem to have a hard time accepting that it’s just very unlikely Aaron Hickey will be sold for £25m from Bologna.

 

12 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

Follow the script man! Hearts players bad, other teams’ players good

It’s a shame people feel the need to post like this. You, like a significant number of posters, completely ignore the substance of posts in favour of pushing a blind agenda. The same thing happened with the court case thread and we all know how that one ended. It’s posts like yours that I’ve quoted that slowly turn forums and social media’s into echo chambers. 
 

For what it’s worth I think Hickey is a terrific player. 

[Jammy T]

12 hours ago, OTT said:

 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-bologna/rekordabgaenge/verein/1025

 

Doesn't look like a club that regularly punts players for big money. 

 

Its not to say it can't happen, just unlikely. 

 

Ultimately, though anything over and above what we've already got is welcomed. Perhaps Hickey will go for big money in the future. Fingers crossed  

If he plays well and Juve want him for example it will be a tasty fee 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Jammy T

[pablo]

There's been 15 transfers in Italy for left backs over £10m. I've not checked, but I'm fairly confident that is more than there has been in Scotland. Who knows what will happen in the future, but if we've secured a sell on clause, there's worse markets Hickey could have moved to. 

[part_time_jambo]

He's a certainty to be in the next Scotland squad now. 

[chrisyboy7]

Is he away yet ffs......if so how much as its doing my nut in

[BackOfTheNet]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Do you reckon they'll "make us an offer we can't refuse" and if we do Ann will find Shergar's head at the bottom of her bed? 

Well not quite, no. 😉 But their transfer deals are far more complex than any other league. The co-ownership thing still baffles me, like a player can sign for one, another team buys but instead of buy and loan back they remain with the former club but new club owns a 50% stake in the player and has certain rights to have that player play for them. But still mean player could be loaned to a third club (so long as hadn’t played for two already in a season) or could be sold to a third club but the cut of the transfer gets split - meaning any sell-ons owed etc may be diluted. All very peculiar.

[Thomaso]

without trailing through the thread can someone please clarify -

 

Is it a loan deal arrangement or a straight sell?

 

Do Celtic get their 30%?

Do we know if there’s a sell on clause?
 

Cheers

[BackOfTheNet]

9 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

without trailing through the thread can someone please clarify -

 

Is it a loan deal arrangement or a straight sell?

 

Do Celtic get their 30%?

Do we know if there’s a sell on clause?
 

Cheers

Anyone who tells you the answers to these things is lying as they don’t know. All pure speculation at this point. Best wait until any official announcement from either club.

[OTT]

2 hours ago, part_time_jambo said:

He's a certainty to be in the next Scotland squad now. 

 

Billy Gilmour canny even get it and he's looking like the best young player Scotland has produced in decades. 

 

Our national team/ game is in the dark ages, rather than try and really push a young player on by giving them a cap at an early age we seem to hold off for literally years.No argument in favour of what we're doing holds water. England regularly add kids to their national side and are 10x the size of nation we are and have players who are leagues ahead of us. It seems to be based off of the 'boot room' traditional type attitude we seem to have which is this belief that young players need to achieve certain things, or be paid no more than x amount. Football has changed so much in the last 20 years and we're ****ing miles behind.

 

My sincere hope is that we as a club recognise this now and do our best to offer young players competitive deals on par with their ability and contribution to the squad rather than basing everything around their age. The rumours about how frankly shite our offer to Hickey was really doesn't fill me with hope going forward if we plan to bring through kids regularly. We need to hold onto our best and brightest beyond their first senior contract, even if it is just into their second, that is where the money is IMO. If that means parity with guys like White or Lee then in my mind so be it. Every player is a risk, but with young players there is huge potential for massive returns. Be sensible obviously, not every young player should get that kind of deal for lads like Hickey where the talent is so apparent then it needs to done.  

[Spellczech]

2 hours ago, part_time_jambo said:

He's a certainty to be in the next Scotland squad now. 

Scotland will end up playing a whole team of Left Backs!

[wavydavy]

14 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Billy Gilmour canny even get it and he's looking like the best young player Scotland has produced in decades. 

 

Our national team/ game is in the dark ages, rather than try and really push a young player on by giving them a cap at an early age we seem to hold off for literally years.No argument in favour of what we're doing holds water. England regularly add kids to their national side and are 10x the size of nation we are and have players who are leagues ahead of us. It seems to be based off of the 'boot room' traditional type attitude we seem to have which is this belief that young players need to achieve certain things, or be paid no more than x amount. Football has changed so much in the last 20 years and we're ****ing miles behind.

 

My sincere hope is that we as a club recognise this now and do our best to offer young players competitive deals on par with their ability and contribution to the squad rather than basing everything around their age. The rumours about how frankly shite our offer to Hickey was really doesn't fill me with hope going forward if we plan to bring through kids regularly. We need to hold onto our best and brightest beyond their first senior contract, even if it is just into their second, that is where the money is IMO. If that means parity with guys like White or Lee then in my mind so be it. Every player is a risk, but with young players there is huge potential for massive returns. Be sensible obviously, not every young player should get that kind of deal for lads like Hickey where the talent is so apparent then it needs to done.  

 

Is Gilmour not injured?  He was at the end of last season although not sure if he has now recovered.

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, part_time_jambo said:

He's a certainty to be in the next Scotland squad now. 

 

Aye, because we need another left back. 

[OTT]

Just now, wavydavy said:

 

Is Gilmour not injured?  He was at the end of last season although not sure if he has now recovered.

 

Not a clue and it doesn't take away from the point of how ****ing backward we are in the national team with top young talents. There is no attempt to build them up, he's got no business continuing to play youth football as he's playing in the Premier league for a top side. Ireland have nipped in and stolen at least 2 players in recent times due to our totally reactionary approach to young players - McGeady we lost because we wouldn't let him keep playing School football but Ireland would, McCarthy we lost because we wanted nothing to do with him until after Ireland had made their approach. Two massive errors. Ryan Fraser has been playing EPL football for the last 5 years and has the sum total of 11 caps. When Gauld got his move to Sporting, that would have been the perfect time to give him his first cap and really let him know his country are behind him, would have done loads for his confidence. We lost Harry Souttar to Australia.. I mean honestly, our approach to talented young players is disgraceful. 

 

We're not a quality football nation with heaps of great senior pro's that can afford to be choosy. We need to be pushing these youngsters on and even just bringing them into the senior squad so they can experience everything will give them heaps of confidence. Erikson with Walcott is one example which really sticks out. 

 

Its like England have discovered space travel and we're still stuck in a cave somewhere trying to rub sticks together.

[Stendelnator]

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/exclusive-hearts-kid-aaron-hickey-finally-on-his-way-to-bologna/

[pablo]

So it is a loan deal with an obligation to buy. What does that mean for Celtic? Do they get their 30% eventually?

[Riddley Walker]

12 minutes ago, Stendelnator said:

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/exclusive-hearts-kid-aaron-hickey-finally-on-his-way-to-bologna/

 

An official quote from the Bologna director, looks like it's actually done this time. Confirms it's a year long with obligation to buy for 2 million euros. Guess it depends on the fine print of Celtic's sell on fee if they'll see any of that.

[milky_26]

42 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Is Gilmour not injured?  He was at the end of last season although not sure if he has now recovered.

i think he was expected to b out for around 4 months so is probably getting to the point he will be back in training

[john thomas]

24 minutes ago, Riddley Walker said:

 

An official quote from the Bologna director, looks like it's actually done this time. Confirms it's a year long with obligation to buy for 2 million euros. Guess it depends on the fine print of Celtic's sell on fee if they'll see any of that.

Love that 'Walter Sabbatini told the Sunday Post'

 

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

 

Not a clue and it doesn't take away from the point of how ****ing backward we are in the national team with top young talents. There is no attempt to build them up, he's got no business continuing to play youth football as he's playing in the Premier league for a top side. Ireland have nipped in and stolen at least 2 players in recent times due to our totally reactionary approach to young players - McGeady we lost because we wouldn't let him keep playing School football but Ireland would, McCarthy we lost because we wanted nothing to do with him until after Ireland had made their approach. Two massive errors. Ryan Fraser has been playing EPL football for the last 5 years and has the sum total of 11 caps. When Gauld got his move to Sporting, that would have been the perfect time to give him his first cap and really let him know his country are behind him, would have done loads for his confidence. We lost Harry Souttar to Australia.. I mean honestly, our approach to talented young players is disgraceful. 

 

We're not a quality football nation with heaps of great senior pro's that can afford to be choosy. We need to be pushing these youngsters on and even just bringing them into the senior squad so they can experience everything will give them heaps of confidence. Erikson with Walcott is one example which really sticks out. 

 

Its like England have discovered space travel and we're still stuck in a cave somewhere trying to rub sticks together.

Always feel there should be room in any squad for a couple of promising young players to train and spend time with the senior squad to help their integration as they improve.  
 

Don’t need to play them, but just being around the senior squad will give them a boost. 

[jr ewing]

54 minutes ago, pablo said:

So it is a loan deal with an obligation to buy. What does that mean for Celtic? Do they get their 30% eventually?

I would expect so.

[Mr Rabbit]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

So it is a loan deal with an obligation to buy. What does that mean for Celtic? Do they get their 30% eventually?

My understanding is they would get a percentage of the transfer fee but not the loan fee. So if what is quoted is correct it’s a £450k loan fee, which would be all ours, and £900k obligation to buy, which Celtic would be entitled to 30%. 
 

So we get just over a million and Celtic get £270k. Although I think there’s further add ons which Celtic would be entitled to a percentage of also. 

[GinRummy]

21 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Always feel there should be room in any squad for a couple of promising young players to train and spend time with the senior squad to help their integration as they improve.  
 

Don’t need to play them, but just being around the senior squad will give them a boost. 

That’s a very good point. I’ve never been involved in football at any level other than a fan but I’d imagine it would get the best out of the youngsters. 

[BackOfTheNet]

2 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Billy Gilmour canny even get it and he's looking like the best young player Scotland has produced in decades. 

 

Our national team/ game is in the dark ages, rather than try and really push a young player on by giving them a cap at an early age we seem to hold off for literally years.No argument in favour of what we're doing holds water. England regularly add kids to their national side and are 10x the size of nation we are and have players who are leagues ahead of us. It seems to be based off of the 'boot room' traditional type attitude we seem to have which is this belief that young players need to achieve certain things, or be paid no more than x amount. Football has changed so much in the last 20 years and we're ****ing miles behind.

Couldn’t agree more with the national team. Other nations plan ahead for tournaments. So say for example a World Cup has just finished, the next squad picked has the games ahead in mind of course but also considers what the squad may look like in 4 years time. So if a player is say 28/29 at that time then they will be 32/33 come the next World Cup, managers don’t pick those players as they build a squad. Chris Coleman and Gary Speed get a lot of kudos for their work with Wales, but if it wasn’t for Toshack playing guys like Bale and Ramsay when they were teenagers the national squad could’ve been different. By the time they reached their primes they had 60-90 caps, and a loyalty to the national setup from an early age.

[pablo]

41 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

My understanding is they would get a percentage of the transfer fee but not the loan fee. So if what is quoted is correct it’s a £450k loan fee, which would be all ours, and £900k obligation to buy, which Celtic would be entitled to 30%. 
 

So we get just over a million and Celtic get £270k. Although I think there’s further add ons which Celtic would be entitled to a percentage of also. 

 

Thanks. 

[Section Q]

49 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

My understanding is they would get a percentage of the transfer fee but not the loan fee. So if what is quoted is correct it’s a £450k loan fee, which would be all ours, and £900k obligation to buy, which Celtic would be entitled to 30%. 
 

So we get just over a million and Celtic get £270k. Although I think there’s further add ons which Celtic would be entitled to a percentage of also. 

And if they dont take up the option do we lose him for nothing......?

[RENE]

48 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

My understanding is they would get a percentage of the transfer fee but not the loan fee. So if what is quoted is correct it’s a £450k loan fee, which would be all ours, and £900k obligation to buy, which Celtic would be entitled to 30%. 
 

So we get just over a million and Celtic get £270k. Although I think there’s further add ons which Celtic would be entitled to a percentage of also. 

Agree it will be something like that but your figures don't  add up to two million Euros. Should total of around 1.8 million pounds.

[Mr Rabbit]

12 minutes ago, Section Q said:

And if they dont take up the option do we lose him for nothing......?

I think that’s why there was talk that he would sign an extension with us for a year to protect them. 

[Mr Rabbit]

12 minutes ago, RENE said:

Agree it will be something like that but your figures don't  add up to two million Euros. Should total of around 1.8 million pounds.

Think the add ons amount up to that not the initial payments. However this is just my take on it.

 

 

[part_time_jambo]

3 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Billy Gilmour canny even get it and he's looking like the best young player Scotland has produced in decades. 

 

Our national team/ game is in the dark ages, rather than try and really push a young player on by giving them a cap at an early age we seem to hold off for literally years.No argument in favour of what we're doing holds water. England regularly add kids to their national side and are 10x the size of nation we are and have players who are leagues ahead of us. It seems to be based off of the 'boot room' traditional type attitude we seem to have which is this belief that young players need to achieve certain things, or be paid no more than x amount. Football has changed so much in the last 20 years and we're ****ing miles behind.

 

My sincere hope is that we as a club recognise this now and do our best to offer young players competitive deals on par with their ability and contribution to the squad rather than basing everything around their age. The rumours about how frankly shite our offer to Hickey was really doesn't fill me with hope going forward if we plan to bring through kids regularly. We need to hold onto our best and brightest beyond their first senior contract, even if it is just into their second, that is where the money is IMO. If that means parity with guys like White or Lee then in my mind so be it. Every player is a risk, but with young players there is huge potential for massive returns. Be sensible obviously, not every young player should get that kind of deal for lads like Hickey where the talent is so apparent then it needs to done.  

 

3 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Scotland will end up playing a whole team of Left Backs!

 

2 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Aye, because we need another left back. 

I was thinking of the Lyndon Dykes scenario - picked to play for Scotland within a week of leaving Livingston. Surely he didn't improve that much in a week!

[Sertse]

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/aaron-hickey-transfer-bologna-hearts-18887459

 

Does this mean septic don't get their fee?

1 year loan with obligation to buy

[OTT]

3 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Scotland will end up playing a whole team of Left Backs!

 

Could play RB? Pretty sure Hickey can use their foot, so may actually be the answer to the RB issue. 

[part_time_jambo]

2 hours ago, john thomas said:

Love that 'Walter Sabbatini told the Sunday Post'

 

😃 Didn't realise it was still on the go.

[Saint Jambo]

1 hour ago, Mr Rabbit said:

My understanding is they would get a percentage of the transfer fee but not the loan fee. So if what is quoted is correct it’s a £450k loan fee, which would be all ours, and £900k obligation to buy, which Celtic would be entitled to 30%. 
 

So we get just over a million and Celtic get £270k. Although I think there’s further add ons which Celtic would be entitled to a percentage of also. 

 

Unless you've seen the detail of the transfer agreement between Hearts and Celtic, I don't see how you can possibly know this. Whether or not Celtic are entitled to a percentage of the loan fee will depend on the wording of the contract.

 

For an example of the complexity and variance in sell on agreements see for example this case arbitrated by CAS:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://jurisprudence.tas-cas.org/Shared%20Documents/4379.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiSpuWWvtTrAhW5QEEAHQTyDCsQFjALegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1Z-Icw_JurclSGlcjwg6X4

One notable thing about this is that the loan fee that Sunderland originally agreed was included in the calculation of the transfer fee submitted by Al Ain FC. This wasn't disputed by Sunderland but that may be because Sunderland won the case on other grounds.

 

Also worth noting that for the purposes of FFP, UEFA have said 

"that loan deals with “conditional obligation to buy [that is] virtually certain . . . must be recognised by both clubs as a permanent transfer from the inception of the loan agreement”"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/9bd82b30-caf2-11e9-a1f4-3669401ba76f

Again, this doesn't directly resolve the question of whether the club with a sell on clause are entitled to a percentage of the loan fee, but I think suggests it is more likely in a case like the potential sale to Bologna with a commitment to buy at the end of the loan deal.

 

So unless anyone has access to the original contract combined with really good understanding of the law around football contracts, I think all we have is relatively uninformed speculation rather than answers.

[Hungry hippo]

9 minutes ago, part_time_jambo said:

 

 

I was thinking of the Lyndon Dykes scenario - picked to play for Scotland within a week of leaving Livingston. Surely he didn't improve that much in a week!

 

That was more due the fact that none of the other strikers were available. Oli Burke was the only other (sort of) striker available for selection who had been in any recent squad.

 

Think Clarke was also keen to tie him down to Scotland rather than Australia.

[RENE]

40 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

Think the add ons amount up to that not the initial payments. However this is just my take on it.

 

 

 

OK ta.

[Fort Vallance]

48 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

I think that’s why there was talk that he would sign an extension with us for a year to protect them. 

That year will be up as well if this goes on much longer.

[ramrod]

1 hour ago, Mr Rabbit said:

My understanding is they would get a percentage of the transfer fee but not the loan fee. So if what is quoted is correct it’s a £450k loan fee, which would be all ours, and £900k obligation to buy, which Celtic would be entitled to 30%. 
 

So we get just over a million and Celtic get £270k. Although I think there’s further add ons which Celtic would be entitled to a percentage of also. 

That doesn't add up to €2 mill 

[Neil Dongcaster]

If Budge has found a way to ensure Celtic get bumped out of 30% of the few then it proves to me we have turned a corner.

[John Findlay]

2 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

Always feel there should be room in any squad for a couple of promising young players to train and spend time with the senior squad to help their integration as they improve.  
 

Don’t need to play them, but just being around the senior squad will give them a boost. 

If you're good enough you're old enough.

England brought on 18yr old Mason Greenwood yesterday. If Billy Gilmour was fit, he is injured at present, then no reason not to play him.

We have to get out of the mentality of scared of losing, to be not scared of winning.

[upgotheheads]

All this stuff about 'doing' Celtic out of a sell-on percentage: frankly it wouldn't bother me a bit if Celtic made 33% of a big transfer if we got 66%.

 

They would still be kicking themselves and we would still have pulled off a coup.

[Heartsofgold]

8 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

All this stuff about 'doing' Celtic out of a sell-on percentage: frankly it wouldn't bother me a bit if Celtic made 33% of a big transfer if we got 66%.

 

They would still be kicking themselves and we would still have pulled off a coup.

Bollocks to that.  I don't want to give those ****ers the steam from my morning pish.