Hickey - signs for Bologna

[jamboinglasgow]

2 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Bayern do the victim chat on a European scale. They basically wrote the FFP rules that keeps the European elite the elite. 

 

Thats true, they are one of the clubs most in favour of a European super league.

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Celtic can be a bit of a trap for talented young Scottish players. Players become too comfortable, they understandably like the winning and big fish in a small pond nature of the club. But they stunt their development. You are seeing it at the moment with players like McGregor and Christie, players could go to bigger leagues and develop to be even better players but they are happy at Celtic. Tierney almost had to be dragged out of the club and he has really kicked on since leaving where before his development looked like it was stalling. I think its something that is not really talked about in Scottish football punditry as people dont want to admit that Celtic shouldn't be the ultimate goal for a really talented Scottish player.

 

Leaving for a huge clubs has its risks as well. You can get lost in the system. 

 

So I can understand the appeal and benefit of moving to Celtic, but it can be become a cul-de-sac for a players ultimate development

 

But many foreign players see it as a route into the English premiership or the other top leagues, and Tierney shows Scots can do it too?

 

Hate to say it but playing in celtic's first team for 2-3 years could get him a good move to the first team of a decent club.

[7628mm]

1 hour ago, Beast Boy said:

So Houldesworth Is Agent Orange. What does that make O’Donnell? The Irish Rep’?

 

Phytophthora infestans I would expect

[jamboinglasgow]

1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

But many foreign players see it as a route into the English premiership or the other top leagues, and Tierney shows Scots can do it too?

 

Hate to say it but playing in celtic's first team for 2-3 years could get him a good move to the first team of a decent club.

 

But thats not what I am talking about with that sentence. 

 

Celtic can be used as an effective stepping stone to bigger things. And thats always what I hope when they do sign young Scottish talent. But the problem is too often players just stay at Celtic and dont take next step, too often because they are too comfortable. Tierney and Armstrong are examples of it going the way its supposed to (though I still think Tierney left a year later than he should have.) But there many more others who just stay and dont develop to their full potential.

[Ribble]

2 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

But many foreign players see it as a route into the English premiership or the other top leagues, and Tierney shows Scots can do it too?

 

Hate to say it but playing in celtic's first team for 2-3 years could get him a good move to the first team of a decent club.

 

Depends on what you gauge as a decent club, most players leaving Celtic for England end up at a stepping stone club first with the exception of Tierney.

 

Van Dijk, Forster, Armstrong and Wanyama all moved to Southampton, Hooper to Norwich, Adam Matthews to Sunderland, Ledley to Palace, Ki to Swansea etc, then out of those only really Van Dijk and Wanyama then got bigger moves, if Hickey stays 5 years at Bayern and even amasses 25 1st team appearances in that time he'll still only be 22/23 with clubs looking at him being bigger than those  that would be if he was at Celtic.

 

 

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, 7628mm said:

Phytophthora infestans

 

I’d have went for Neovison vison myself, but kudos.

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

Depends on what you gauge as a decent club, most players leaving Celtic for England end up at a stepping stone club first with the exception of Tierney.

 

Van Dijk, Forster, Armstrong and Wanyama all moved to Southampton, Hooper to Norwich, Adam Matthews to Sunderland, Ledley to Palace, Ki to Swansea etc, then out of those only really Van Dijk and Wanyama then got bigger moves, if Hickey stays 5 years at Bayern and even amasses 25 1st team appearances in that time he'll still only be 22/23 with clubs looking at him being bigger than those  that would be if he was at Celtic.

 

 

Exactly, and he’s already being promised a chance at Bologna with first team exposure, so there’s no need for him to pass through Celtic first. If he goes to Celtic, it’s for nobody’s benefit other than Celtic’s. They shouldn’t even be in the equation.

[Shanks]

Ultimately it will come down to what Hickey wants to do.  I would be gutted if he went to celtic but could understand why he'd do it.  

 

He'd be a mile away from the first team at Bayern and would be playing his football in the german third division.  Theres more chance of him playing first team and CL football at celtic and he might fancy himself as the "next tierney"

[Nookie Bear]

8 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

Depends on what you gauge as a decent club, most players leaving Celtic for England end up at a stepping stone club first with the exception of Tierney.

 

Van Dijk, Forster, Armstrong and Wanyama all moved to Southampton, Hooper to Norwich, Adam Matthews to Sunderland, Ledley to Palace, Ki to Swansea etc, then out of those only really Van Dijk and Wanyama then got bigger moves, if Hickey stays 5 years at Bayern and even amasses 25 1st team appearances in that time he'll still only be 22/23 with clubs looking at him being bigger than those  that would be if he was at Celtic.

 

 

 

Fair point. It's a always gamble when moving to England and it's difficult to tell how things will pan out.

 

Off topic slightly but i never saw Van Dijk becoming quite so good, based on his time at celtic.

[Taffin]

2 hours ago, Heartsofgold said:

Compete with, challenge and learn from I would say.

 

Totally agree, it's a great move for him but as I say, I doubt he'll ever be a regular there; that doesn't mean he shouldn't go though.

 

It'll be a great experience for him either way.

[Ribble]

2 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Fair point. It's a always gamble when moving to England and it's difficult to tell how things will pan out.

 

Off topic slightly but i never saw Van Dijk becoming quite so good, based on his time at celtic.

 

Van Dijk kinda had the perfect progression to play for Klopps Liverpool team, at Celtic he had the time and space to develop his range of passing before going to Southampton where he had to develop his actual defending. I always felt he was taking it easy at Celtic and that he'd get found out at a higher level, turns out it was just really easy for him at Celtic and we just didn't see him under any real kind of pressure.

[DH1986]

2 hours ago, buzzbomb said:

You called him the Irish agent. He’s not Irish. He’s Scottish. 
 

 

I bet he pretends he’s proper Irish though and knows all the words to those folk songs.

 

Its just the way they behave......it’s all a bit odd.

Edited August 18, 2020 by DH1986

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, buzzbomb said:

Hickeys dad has taken some amount of abuse on here. He’s a really nice guy, not some Celtic obsessed muppet. Remember he took his son OUT of Celtic to get him a better chance in football. He’s supported Aaron and Hearts during the last 2 seasons. Whatever he advises it will be with Aaron’s best interest at heart, not Celtic. Personally, I hope that means Bayern and I’d be really disappointed otherwise as that opportunity will never come around again, but I could understand if Aaron didn’t want to leave home. 

Good post and my understanding of the situation as well. 

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, Barack said:

Does his Dad get a cut of any fee. Since he's representing him?

Think he now has an agent. 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, buzzbomb said:

I have no idea but trust me don’t think he needs the cash. Also, I believe it’s Liam O’Donnell who is representing Aaron

👍

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, cb1874 said:

People forgetting that for him to end up at celtic in this window, we have to accept their bid. So far that's not happened.

A bid needs to be accepted by the club...then and only then will Hickey and his father have a choice to make...whether the accepted bid is from celtic, Bayern, Villa or anyone else for that matter.

If he wants to go to celtic, he may just have to spend a season in the championship if they don't offer up the cash.

The alleged 400k they offered was just the usual contemptible p!sh they come out with when dealing with every Scottish club. 

They've potentially got another McGinn scenario in the making.

If he wants to go to Celtic he goes to Celtic, end of. It’s either now, January or next summer and the amount we get diminishes by the window. He has to go this summer and we have to maximise the amount we get. 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Beast Boy said:

Yep. If the posts on here about Ann Budge not even considering an approach from Celtic are correct, then she’s doing him a big favour.

But not doing us any favours potentially. 

[Bazzas right boot]

I hope Hickey goes to the club that gives us the best deal. 

 

If it's celtic on a pre contract in Jan it highlights another pitfall in the youth approach, if you get a gem and they don't willingly sign a contract it's all a  waste of time. 

 

Melted welly face done hibs a turn by signing a lengthy deal despite him going to move on, Patterson run his contract down and Hickey is in his last year, so the financial benefits are minimum to us. 

 

I expect us to be a stepping stone, but if we can't get these guys on long contracts so we get a financal benefit it's pointless. 

If that continues you have to ask - what is the point? 

 

It's looking likely he'll choose celtic, how predictable and boring. 

 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, jr ewing said:

A year will pass pretty quickly  especially this season. Then he moves for nothing. Pre contract January. 

And we get 70% of a meagre development fee for him. 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Barack said:

My take (and I'm sure buzzbomb can refute some, or all) is this:

 

Hickey's been linked to Man City for ages. Hearts have been negotiating with his Dad for month's. Levein made it pretty clear negotiations were tricky, and Aaron was likely to leave.

 

Now; Bologna, Lyon, Villa and BAYERN MUNCH have all shown recent interest. So much so, that he went out to Italy & Germany. Lyon's Academy and youth progression is perhaps even better than Bayern's. Then there's Celtic. Here's where BB can deny this if he wants.

 

I think it goes something like this:

 

Aaron's Dad hires a well known firm, whose main agent is more than likely, a big Celtic fan too. He's been told, that if he wants to stay and hang on(thus potentially losing us a fee in January) he can sign for Celtic and be in the 1st team almost immediately.

 

Secondly, he will possibly get the "Tierney chat". That being: " Stay at home. Sign for 4 or 5 years, and we'll sell you down south after CL exposure. Making us a fortune and you." Exactly what Lyon tell their signings by the way. DePay, Dembele, etc.

 

If you are him, and you have your pick of club's around Europe after you. Would you honestly expect people to believe that it would be because you'd be homesick, or that you believed Celtic would afford you as a player, more exposure and development than the others mentioned that you know of...?

 

I think he's been told at some stage by whomever, to run the clock down until January,  especially with this pandemic. Which is why we want him gone sooner rather than later.

 

All, imo.

 

 

Could well be. Only thing I’d say against that is that his old man has a track record of doing what’s right for his sons future regardless of their affections got one club. Tough decision for a kid just turned 18. 

[John Findlay]

44 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Fair point. It's a always gamble when moving to England and it's difficult to tell how things will pan out.

 

Off topic slightly but i never saw Van Dijk becoming quite so good, based on his time at celtic.

Then you weren't watching him closely enough. He was a stand out from the start imho.

[Beast Boy]

6 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

But not doing us any favours potentially. 

If he sets his ambitions at Celtic, and decides that is where he is going regardless, of how it will do the club who gave him his first team starts out of cash, then there’s nothing we can do about it. They are putting in offers of a third to a quarter o what other clubs are offering. That being the case, I rather keep him and play him for another season and take the development fee. £400k with 30% presumably taken off on top? Nah, yer okay. 

[Chimp]

What i dont get is how only 1.5m has been rumoured? With so much competition for him from big clubs i'd have thought we could have got significantly more than that 

[tolcross lad]

1 hour ago, Barack said:

My take (and I'm sure buzzbomb can refute some, or all) is this:

 

Hickey's been linked to Man City for ages. Hearts have been negotiating with his Dad for month's. Levein made it pretty clear negotiations were tricky, and Aaron was likely to leave.

 

Now; Bologna, Lyon, Villa and BAYERN MUNCH have all shown recent interest. So much so, that he went out to Italy & Germany. Lyon's Academy and youth progression is perhaps even better than Bayern's. Then there's Celtic. Here's where BB can deny this if he wants.

 

I think it goes something like this:

 

Aaron's Dad hires a well known firm, whose main agent is more than likely, a big Celtic fan too. He's been told, that if he wants to stay and hang on(thus potentially losing us a fee in January) he can sign for Celtic and be in the 1st team almost immediately.

 

Secondly, he will possibly get the "Tierney chat". That being: " Stay at home. Sign for 4 or 5 years, and we'll sell you down south after CL exposure. Making us a fortune and you." Exactly what Lyon tell their signings by the way. DePay, Dembele, etc.

 

If you are him, and you have your pick of club's around Europe after you. Would you honestly expect people to believe that it would be because you'd be homesick, or that you believed Celtic would afford you as a player, more exposure and development than the others mentioned that you know of...?

 

I think he's been told at some stage by whomever, to run the clock down until January,  especially with this pandemic. Which is why we want him gone sooner rather than later.

 

All, imo.

 

 

 

Your opinion is probably not too far away from the truth.Will Hearts will be forced to take what Celtic offer because Hickey wants to go to them?Is Hickey willing to hang around in the Championship if Hearts refuse to sell to Celtic?

I have nothing against a young lad and his family trying to work out whats best for themselves.Hickey was at Hearts Academy,then Celtic and then bounced back to ourselves.Self interest rules.

Personally I am fed up with my club being f****d over.If Hickey chooses to run the clock down he should be told that he will be  a bench warmer for the season.That may address minds.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

One of these days the wider world will see Celtic for who they are, a massive bully who tramples those beneath them (as opposed to their myth of the heroic underdog.)

Excellent post. 

[davemclaren]

6 minutes ago, tolcross lad said:

 

Your opinion is probably not too far away from the truth.Will Hearts will be forced to take what Celtic offer because Hickey wants to go to them?Is Hickey willing to hang around in the Championship if Hearts refuse to sell to Celtic?

I have nothing against a young lad and his family trying to work out whats best for themselves.Hickey was at Hearts Academy,then Celtic and then bounced back to ourselves.Self interest rules.

Personally I am fed up with my club being f****d over.If Hickey chooses to run the clock down he should be told that he will be  a bench warmer for the season.That may address minds.

I’m sure all parties in this will be out to look after their own interest. 

[Notts1874]

7 minutes ago, Chimp said:

What i dont get is how only 1.5m has been rumoured? With so much competition for him from big clubs i'd have thought we could have got significantly more than that 

I think it's to do with the length of his contract left and also he has only played circa 30 first team games. 

[Beast Boy]

What would we be looking at for a development fee for Hickey? £200k? £250k? Thereabouts?

 

Celtic offering £400k minus 30% = £280k?

 

Why on earth would we even consider accepting the Celtic offer? Nah, yer okay. You can stay with us for another season and leave for an equally shite amount of money after that instead.

[Ari Gold]

Maybe Celtic are waiting to get rid of Bolingoli before putting in a decent offer for Hickey?

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

Maybe Celtic are waiting to get rid of Bolingoli before putting in a decent offer for Hickey?

In that case they can **** off. 

[ford donald]

1 minute ago, Ari Gold said:

Maybe Celtic are waiting to get rid of Bolingoli before putting in a decent offer for Hickey?

 

Reading some of the reports he wants to join Bayern 5yr deal seemingly,Hearts to sort out financial end.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, Beast Boy said:

What would we be looking at for a development fee for Hickey? £200k? £250k? Thereabouts?

 

Celtic offering £400k minus 30% = £280k?

 

Why on earth would we even consider accepting the Celtic offer? Nah, yer okay. You can stay with us for another season and leave for an equally shite amount of money after that instead.

 

They might put a % sell on close in that,  even 10%, looking at Tierney it could be significant. 

If it runs down, no sell on clause either. 

If it's celtic, they have us over a barrel and lubed up as well. 

Pisses me off no end, and as above makes me question the whole point in the academy if our best assets go for peanuts if they don't sign extensions. 

More so if they go to Glasgow, ****ing pointless and a waste of effort and time. 

 

20 odd years after Naysmith left for £1.5m + to Everton. we are selling players for the same or less. 

Wtf happened? 

[jamboinglasgow]

I did see the Daily Record report that its a 4 year contract he is getting from Bayern.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Every young Scottish footballer with any level of ambition should be seeking to exit Scotland as soon as possible. This place is a backwater for developing players. 

[upgotheheads]

It will all boil down to what kind of personality AH is, and what kind of parents he has. The move to a foreign country (albeit only a couple of hours away, and probably in the club's private jet) is not to be undertaken lightly. I did something similar and it was only Engerlund, although I had none of the support from my employers and family that Aaron will have. Does he want a life-changing experience, perhaps being fluent in German in a couple of years, playing at the highest level in the world, and to be financially secure for life? Or does he want to hang about in the west of Scotland old-firm bubble, being pestered by knuckle dragging morons if he so much as goes out for a beer with his pals - even if he's set up financially?

Now for some that would be a tough choice, but from what I've seen and heard of Aaron and his background I'm guessing he will be off to Germany or maybe Italy.

He can have a very bright future and a wonderful life-enhancing experience for any smart young bloke.

 

Don't blow it Aaron.

Edited August 18, 2020 by upgotheheads

[soonbe110]

27 minutes ago, Beast Boy said:

If he sets his ambitions at Celtic, and decides that is where he is going regardless, of how it will do the club who gave him his first team starts out of cash, then there’s nothing we can do about it. They are putting in offers of a third to a quarter o what other clubs are offering. That being the case, I rather keep him and play him for another season and take the development fee. £400k with 30% presumably taken off on top? Nah, yer okay. 

Dev fee will be nowhere near £400k I think. Based on time with club and wages and age. 

[TyphoonJambo]

There's a lot of English spoken in Munich, mostly by drunk Aussies and kiwis. Great city and central to so much more than Glasgow. A nice drive to Italy, the Alps, Venice, Ski slopes. A no brainer. 

[upgotheheads]

10 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

They might put a % sell on close in that,  even 10%, looking at Tierney it could be significant. 

If it runs down, no sell on clause either. 

If it's celtic, they have us over a barrel and lubed up as well. 

Pisses me off no end, and as above makes me question the whole point in the academy if our best assets go for peanuts if they don't sign extensions. 

More so if they go to Glasgow, ****ing pointless and a waste of effort and time. 

 

20 odd years after Naysmith left for £1.5m + to Everton. we are selling players for the same or less. 

Wtf happened? 

 

 

Sky TV, and Bosman.

[Shanks]

7 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Every young Scottish footballer with any level of ambition should be seeking to exit Scotland as soon as possible. This place is a backwater for developing players. 

 

I get what you're saying but it doesn't always work out, just look at Ryan Gauld.  Everyone was creaming their pants that he was going to "experience an amazing culture" and going to Portugal would be an amazing move and brilliant for scottish football.

 

Gauld left Dundee United and went abroad, Armstrong left Dundee United and went to celtic.  Easy to see who made the correct decision.

 

Now I'm not saying that's what Hickey should do, although I would understand it if he see playing for celtic as a better move than playing in the third tier of german football with Bayern II

 

 

[Beast Boy]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

Dev fee will be nowhere near £400k I think. Based on time with club and wages and age. 

I know, I was guessing it’d be somewhere nearer £200-250k? Once you take of 30% from Celtic’s reported offer, it’s not a great deal more than that. Also sell on clauses have to be offered, and even if they are accepted, they sometimes don’t come to anything.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, Shanks said:

 

I get what you're saying but it doesn't always work out, just look at Ryan Gauld.  Everyone was creaming their pants that he was going to "experience an amazing culture" and going to Portugal would be an amazing move and brilliant for scottish football.

 

Gauld left Dundee United and went abroad, Armstrong left Dundee United and went to celtic.  Easy to see who made the correct decision.

 

Now I'm not saying that's what Hickey should do, although I would understand it if he see playing for celtic as a better move than playing in the third tier of german football with Bayern II

 

 

 

Scottish football is goosed Shanks and that was the reason behind my post. 

[soonbe110]

Just now, Beast Boy said:

I know, I was guessing it’d be somewhere nearer £200-250k? Once you take of 30% from Celtic’s reported offer, it’s not a great deal more than that. Also sell on clauses have to be offered, and even if they are accepted, they sometimes don’t come to anything.

Any dev fee would be reduced by the same 30% so it would be close to zero. 

[John Findlay]

14 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Every young Scottish footballer with any level of ambition should be seeking to exit Scotland as soon as possible. This place is a backwater for developing players. 

That's not strictly true.

[jambo_74]

3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

They might put a % sell on close in that,  even 10%, looking at Tierney it could be significant. 

If it runs down, no sell on clause either. 

If it's celtic, they have us over a barrel and lubed up as well. 

Pisses me off no end, and as above makes me question the whole point in the academy if our best assets go for peanuts if they don't sign extensions. 

More so if they go to Glasgow, ****ing pointless and a waste of effort and time. 

 

20 odd years after Naysmith left for £1.5m + to Everton. we are selling players for the same or less. 

Wtf happened? 

Scotland's proximity to the most lucrative league in the world, coupled with the lack of investment during the nineties and noughties in player development, the arse falling out of TV investment.  The parochial nature of the governing body, and the ineptitude of the  SPFL executives. The list is longer than this, but these are certainly some of the reasons for our stagnation. Remember when Germany hit apparent rock bottom, I think we beat them and England smashed them on their own patch. They didn't sit back and wait on things changing, they dismantled and rebuilt. We on the other hand, get Henry McLeish to write a lengthy, in-depth report and promptly throw it in the bin.  Good stuff....👍

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Any dev fee would be reduced by the same 30% so it would be close to zero. 

£280k or have him for another season? Easy decision for me.

[jambo_74]

4 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

 

Sky TV, and Bosman.

Absolutely huge and often forgotten about. We went from very occasionally picking up the odd foreign player to filling teams with journeymen from all over the globe. The change in the three foreigner rule was a significant blow to developing local talent and potentially selling for significant profit. It was easier in the eyes of the clubs to pay higher wages for the so called finished article than to properly invest in academies and youth development.

[soonbe110]

3 minutes ago, Beast Boy said:

£280k or have him for another season? Easy decision for me.

For a season where  we clearly shouldn’t need him and given the need to cover reduced Covid-affected revenue and give Robbie funds I’d think the £280k would be better in our bank account. The risk of another Calum P would always be there. I also think the £400k offered by Celtic was net after sell on clause removed. So their offer was probably nearer £600k 

Edited August 18, 2020 by soonbe110

[Beast Boy]

Just now, jambo_74 said:

Absolutely huge and often forgotten about. We went from very occasionally picking up the odd foreign player to filling teams with journeymen from all over the globe. The change in the three foreigner rule was a significant blow to developing local talent and potentially selling for significant profit. It was easier in the eyes of the clubs to pay higher wages for the so called finished article than to properly invest in academies and youth development.

The incarnation of agents played a part too.

[Hearts1975]

1 minute ago, Beast Boy said:

£280k or have him for another season? Easy decision for me.

Got a feeling he will go to Bayern. Over a million. Hopefully we have already told Septic to GTF with whatever they have offered, as we won’t sell to them, regardless, and then made it crystal clear to Hickey that Septic don’t meet our valuation of him but the clubs abroad do, so he has to choose between Italy or Germany 

 

 

[Beast Boy]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

For a season where  we clearly shouldn’t need him and given the need to cover reduced Covid-affected revenue and give Robbie funds I’d think the £280k would be better in our bank account. The risk of another Calum P would always be there. 

It’s £280k though. It’d do less good than a top young player.