SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Riccarton3]

1 minute ago, tolcross lad said:

I am not sure I understand.I thought our threat of court action was to bring the financial consequences to bear down on the clubs.

Does it matter?  They've made up their minds about Hearts intentions.All self serv ing, including this latest revelati on. If you served someone soup and they continually threw it in your face, would you not end up not giving a **** about being contrary?

[Riccarton3]

9 minutes ago, ramrod said:

So with this no strings offer from the philanthropist she could actual be helping  the Spfls to get way out of this shambles and confirm our place in the Championship . 

She is utterly losing the plot here . There's no way this offer and us playing in the top tier can go hand in hand . It would look like bribery. 

She now need to shut the **** up . She's tried to get these idiots to see the big picture which they have no intention of doing . 

When they confirm this she needs to either challenge the demotion in court and/or point out we expect to be playing a full fixture list in the Championship  next year with a chance of promotion or there will be a legal challenge on that basis . 

 

I tend to agree with this. It's like she is trying to embarrass them now. But gotta learn, these guys don't embarrass. You've done the process which should end next week. You then leave it to the SPFL to sort it out. If, what transpires is sh*t for the club, off you go to Court.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Riccarton3

[Borders Jambo]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

Best thing that can happen now is for AB to announce she is taking legal action immediately and that she looks forward to hearing Doncaster’s solutions and proposals for the forthcoming season. 
 

And all offers of assistance have been removed. 

Think we have to wait for the vote to strengthen our legal case but would think this is likely.

 

I don't know if I'm alone in this but this whole scenario has highlighted to me :

 

How disliked we are as a Club - not exactly sure why

How much we are moving to a situation where there are only 2 teams effectively playing for the title.

How corrupt the whole system is, not just for Hearts but others

How so many supposed Scottish football "experts" patently don't even read or prepare before they are on a national forum. and being paid by us as licence payers.  Or are simply too dim to be able to articulate or think effectively on the spot.  

 

 

[EIEIO]

14 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

They won’t be the only club. Takes us back to Ann’s statement prior to her proposal, where she stated that the Premiership needs Hearts more than the Championship does. If Kilmarnock Cant afford it, then neither can St Johnstone, Accies, County imo. Question marks over Motherwell and St Mirren.

Great time for court action if they can't even afford testing.

[henryheart]

This has dragged on long enough. One more week then it is time to pull up the drawbridge and do, just as every other club has been doing, look after ourselves. This means no more co-operation, no offers of help and just like the vast majority of clubs are doing - we sit back and wait and support only what is in our self interest and stuff the rest. We are ready and able, if others are not, then that is their problem. It is time for Doncaster and his board to do their job and secure the future of Scottish football.

[Riccarton3]

12 minutes ago, tolcross lad said:

I am not sure I understand.I thought our threat of court action was to bring the financial consequences to bear down on the clubs.

I'm a bit all over the place with this,to be honest. Like u  I feel the introduction of this money from investors is ill advised. Just be ing exploited i mmediately. What does she expect? Keeps looking for something that isn't there.

[tolcross lad]

It could matter if the philanthropic gesture enabled clubs like Killie or St Mirren finance BCD and allow a 12 team SPL function with Hearts stuck somewhere else.I would not trust the SPFL with a no strings attached offer.

[Riccarton3]

3 minutes ago, henryheart said:

This has dragged on long enough. One more week then it is time to pull up the drawbridge and do, just as every other club has been doing, look after ourselves. This means no more co-operation, no offers of help and just like the vast majority of clubs are doing - we sit back and wait and support only what is in our self interest and stuff the rest. We are ready and able, if others are not, then that is their problem. It is time for Doncaster and his board to do their job and secure the future of Scottish football.

The support will back the club financially when it's needed .No sure r thing. Comfortable in that knowledge

[David McCaig]

Good artcle in The Times :

 

 

Bad news for Hearts is worse news for Scottish football

SPFL decision to allow relegation could have ramifications beyond the Tynecastle club

May 30 2020, The Sunday Times

Scottish football’s capacity for self-harm remains remarkable, even during a global pandemic. The decision to declare the season over, crown Celtic champions and move swiftly onto to the new TV deal with Sky was always going to cause collateral damage, riling Rangers and relegating Hearts for starters, but a small dose of common sense could have stopped it escalating into a full-scale civil war with potential sequels in the courts still to come.

That is Hearts’ nuclear option if their latest stab at finding a consensus on reconstruction among Scotland’s 42 clubs fails to gather the required support this week, and all the indications are that it won’t come close to doing so. Too many turkeys would need to vote for Christmas for a proposed temporary move of three leagues of 14 for two seasons to be approved.

Yet all of this could have been avoided if a principle, widely agreed as sensible by all in Scotland, had been adopted from the outset — that no club should be worse off as a result of what the insurance industry would consider an Act of God.

Leadership was lacking. The proposal to sign off on the season should have been a simple one, that nobody would be relegated without completing their matches and nobody who merited promotion would be denied it.

This could have been achieved with minimum fuss by promoting two clubs to the Premiership and relegating none, Sky have no problem with a 14-team top flight provided it still features four Old Firm games and retaining the Edinburgh derby would have been a welcome bonus.

Dundee United clearly deserved to come up as runaway champions of the Championship and also promoting Inverness, four points clear in second place when the music stopped in March, would have added their Highland derby with Ross County to the viewing schedule.

United and Inverness would have been replaced in the Championship by Falkirk and Raith Rovers, the top two in League One separated by a single point but four clear of the pack.

Cove Rangers and Edinburgh City, the leaders in League Two and both ambitious, well-run outfits, would have been promoted into their places and replaced in the bottom tier by Brora Rangers and Kelty Hearts, winners of the Highland and Lowland Leagues respectively.

Everybody rewarded, nobody punished. Job done. Instead, in their rush, the SPFL have harshly relegated Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer and created a mess that is now heading towards the courts, potentially creating another dimension of chaos as they strive to start next season on time.

Ann Budge, after so much hard graft to bring Hearts back from the brink six years ago, repairing the ravages of the Vladimir Romanov era, now risks her legacy before handing the club over to the supporters, something she is set on despite a bid from Foster Gillett, the son of the former Liverpool owner George Gillett, last week.

They have been sleepwalking towards the trap door all season and did little to suggest in a 1-0 defeat away to St Mirren in the final Premiership fixture before the lockdown that they would have avoided it.

Money has been squandered and Budge had too much faith in Craig Levein to take care of the football side of things.

Appointing Daniel Stendel was a strange choice, too, as Motherwell’s Stephen Robinson was clearly the manager required to avert relegation, given his knowledge of the Scottish scene and ability to work on a restricted budget. Stendel and Hearts have a bilateral break clause in their union, which would mean further tumult in personnel and strategy this summer.

Hearts may have ultimately deserved to go down, but we will never know that for sure and to expel them — the word they insist upon using, with some justification — from the top flight during this crisis is not only unfair but also unwise. Their average attendance of 16,751 this season, a miserable one for their fans, is bettered only by Celtic and Rangers and is higher than Hibs’ or Aberdeen’s. They also carry a large travelling support, which benefits other clubs financially.

There are parallels with Rangers’ demotion to the bottom tier in 2012, after the SPFL rejected readmitting them following their administration and liquidation by a 10-1 vote.

It took Rangers four years to reclaim their top flight status and it seemed to be on pause in this period, with standards slipping and budgets shrinking across the board before their return.

Steven Pressley, who previously played for Rangers, Dundee United and Celtic, as well as captaining Hearts and then managing Falkirk, says that Scotland’s clubs must see “the big picture” rather than focusing on narrow self-interest in the present crisis.

“It’s beyond me the way the SPFL have acted during this period,” he said. “Their first port of call should have been to ensure the stability of all member clubs, especially those we consider to be major clubs.

“Nobody should really lose in these circumstances. Yes, you can have the winners, Celtic declared champions, that’s not a problem, but there can be no losers.

“It has left them in a really difficult predicament because of the Hearts situation — a club that they had to protect. We’re all in agreement they have had a really poor season, nobody is arguing that point. Under normal circumstances, if they had gone down, nobody at Hearts would be complaining, I’m pretty sure about that, because there would be no grounds for it.

“There hasn’t been any leadership about this, none whatsoever. It’s almost an administrative role at times, but when you get a crisis like this you find out about true leaders and wow, we have lacked that in that organisation.

“Whether you agreed or disagreed with the decision, when Rangers were demoted the effect it had on our game was incredible.

“The standard in the Premiership during the four years Rangers were out of it, and we also lost Hearts and Hibs from it, was the lowest ebb in the history of Scottish football, the lowest standard in the top flight.

“We have to be careful. We haven’t got that many clubs that get in excess of 15,000 fans every week and we have to protect that.

“It would be so irresponsible for our clubs to allow this to happen, so irresponsible.”

He also acknowledges that Hearts have to accept responsibility for their predicament and learn lessons. “This will be a big summer, with Craig moving on,” Pressley, who spent eight years at Hearts from 1998 to 2006, said.

“They have invested heavily and a big part is the recruitment of players and how they go about it. Once Ann knows the future, in terms of which division, because that will have a big effect on the direction of the club. As I experienced at Falkirk, when they were down there with no money, the real saviour of the club was the academy.

“It might be similar for Hearts, especially now when finance in football is in quite a precarious position.

“They have a really good academy there and they should be leaning on that more than they are at the moment.”

 

Discover more from The Ti

[Tatlock]

3 minutes ago, tolcross lad said:

It could matter if the philanthropic gesture enabled clubs like Killie or St Mirren finance BCD and allow a 12 team SPL function with Hearts stuck somewhere else.I would not trust the SPFL with a no strings attached offer.

To be fair, Ann’s interview intimated that the support was aimed at lower league clubs to enable them to play behind closed doors. No mention of unilateral help although it appears some are spinning it this way

[stuart500]

If it's done nothing else this offer of cash has at last got some clubs owning up to the perilous financial states they are in. 

 

The game is in a huge mess. Begging bowls now appearing all over the place.

 

Clubs cannot be allowed to hide any longer. They must all declare if they are able to compete fully under any circumstances next season. 

 

This question should have been asked weeks ago.

 

Doncaster must go. He's overseen this shambles whilst pocketing an obscene amount of money. 

 

Personally now I'm fed up with this. Just want Hearts to go to court first thing tomorrow morning. Ann's reconstruction paper is already dead in the water. No one has a clue what's happening. Time to force the issue for them.

 

 

 

 

[Riccarton3]

6 minutes ago, tolcross lad said:

It could matter if the philanthropic gesture enabled clubs like Killie or St Mirren finance BCD and allow a 12 team SPL function with Hearts stuck somewhere else.I would not trust the SPFL with a no strings attached offer.

Get it, yes. Not a route to go down. I think it's a suggestion rooted more in shining the spotlight on ND rather than thinking of through. As much as he is the enemy, you can lose focus when it becomes too pers onal

[TyphoonJambo]

The Times article is far too sensible and honest. You wont hear it repeated by the Scottish media. 

[CavySlaveJambo]

28 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

They won’t be the only club. Takes us back to Ann’s statement prior to her proposal, where she stated that the Premiership needs Hearts more than the Championship does. If Kilmarnock Cant afford it, then neither can St Johnstone, Accies, County imo. Question marks over Motherwell and St Mirren.

Ross County have got the tests ordered in from S Korea according to Twitter.  St Mirren I would have doubts about being able to pay. 

[Beast Boy]

9 hours ago, skjhearts said:

Dont wish to rain on anyone's parde re St Johnstone but if i recall corectly one of the big supermarkerts ,Asda i think, bought there ground  on the promise that they would buy the land from a local farmer then build a new stadium for them.Really camt blame them for that.The old ground was a S ### hole.

Nobody blames them for that. What people rightly get annoyed about, is the hypocrisy of arseholes like Cosgrove, who act as though St Johnstone are some kind of model of good accounting and astute business management. People sneer at Hearts and other clubs who had to accumulate massive debts to build their stadia as the TV money swirled around the pan. Where do people think St Johnstone would be right now without the philanthropy of a local farmer? To then have to listen to that pompous and pretentious blow-hard Cosgrove giving it big licks about philanthropy? No ta, Stuart, you can pipe the **** down, thanks.

 

Arsehole.

[Riccarton3]

7 minutes ago, TypoonJambo said:

The Times article is far too sensible and honest. You wont hear it repeated by the Scottish media. 

To some extent. The part about Rangers? They cheated everyone for a decade. There was no other place for them to go. They created that themselves. This is an entirely different situation. The start of that article was spot on,showing how reconstruction could be achieved without hurting any clubs. 

[Des Lynam]

17 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Good artcle in The Times :

 

 

Bad news for Hearts is worse news for Scottish football

SPFL decision to allow relegation could have ramifications beyond the Tynecastle club

May 30 2020, The Sunday Times

Scottish football’s capacity for self-harm remains remarkable, even during a global pandemic. The decision to declare the season over, crown Celtic champions and move swiftly onto to the new TV deal with Sky was always going to cause collateral damage, riling Rangers and relegating Hearts for starters, but a small dose of common sense could have stopped it escalating into a full-scale civil war with potential sequels in the courts still to come.

That is Hearts’ nuclear option if their latest stab at finding a consensus on reconstruction among Scotland’s 42 clubs fails to gather the required support this week, and all the indications are that it won’t come close to doing so. Too many turkeys would need to vote for Christmas for a proposed temporary move of three leagues of 14 for two seasons to be approved.

Yet all of this could have been avoided if a principle, widely agreed as sensible by all in Scotland, had been adopted from the outset — that no club should be worse off as a result of what the insurance industry would consider an Act of God.

Leadership was lacking. The proposal to sign off on the season should have been a simple one, that nobody would be relegated without completing their matches and nobody who merited promotion would be denied it.

This could have been achieved with minimum fuss by promoting two clubs to the Premiership and relegating none, Sky have no problem with a 14-team top flight provided it still features four Old Firm games and retaining the Edinburgh derby would have been a welcome bonus.

Dundee United clearly deserved to come up as runaway champions of the Championship and also promoting Inverness, four points clear in second place when the music stopped in March, would have added their Highland derby with Ross County to the viewing schedule.

United and Inverness would have been replaced in the Championship by Falkirk and Raith Rovers, the top two in League One separated by a single point but four clear of the pack.

Cove Rangers and Edinburgh City, the leaders in League Two and both ambitious, well-run outfits, would have been promoted into their places and replaced in the bottom tier by Brora Rangers and Kelty Hearts, winners of the Highland and Lowland Leagues respectively.

Everybody rewarded, nobody punished. Job done. Instead, in their rush, the SPFL have harshly relegated Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer and created a mess that is now heading towards the courts, potentially creating another dimension of chaos as they strive to start next season on time.

Ann Budge, after so much hard graft to bring Hearts back from the brink six years ago, repairing the ravages of the Vladimir Romanov era, now risks her legacy before handing the club over to the supporters, something she is set on despite a bid from Foster Gillett, the son of the former Liverpool owner George Gillett, last week.

They have been sleepwalking towards the trap door all season and did little to suggest in a 1-0 defeat away to St Mirren in the final Premiership fixture before the lockdown that they would have avoided it.

Money has been squandered and Budge had too much faith in Craig Levein to take care of the football side of things.

Appointing Daniel Stendel was a strange choice, too, as Motherwell’s Stephen Robinson was clearly the manager required to avert relegation, given his knowledge of the Scottish scene and ability to work on a restricted budget. Stendel and Hearts have a bilateral break clause in their union, which would mean further tumult in personnel and strategy this summer.

Hearts may have ultimately deserved to go down, but we will never know that for sure and to expel them — the word they insist upon using, with some justification — from the top flight during this crisis is not only unfair but also unwise. Their average attendance of 16,751 this season, a miserable one for their fans, is bettered only by Celtic and Rangers and is higher than Hibs’ or Aberdeen’s. They also carry a large travelling support, which benefits other clubs financially.

There are parallels with Rangers’ demotion to the bottom tier in 2012, after the SPFL rejected readmitting them following their administration and liquidation by a 10-1 vote.

It took Rangers four years to reclaim their top flight status and it seemed to be on pause in this period, with standards slipping and budgets shrinking across the board before their return.

Steven Pressley, who previously played for Rangers, Dundee United and Celtic, as well as captaining Hearts and then managing Falkirk, says that Scotland’s clubs must see “the big picture” rather than focusing on narrow self-interest in the present crisis.

“It’s beyond me the way the SPFL have acted during this period,” he said. “Their first port of call should have been to ensure the stability of all member clubs, especially those we consider to be major clubs.

“Nobody should really lose in these circumstances. Yes, you can have the winners, Celtic declared champions, that’s not a problem, but there can be no losers.

“It has left them in a really difficult predicament because of the Hearts situation — a club that they had to protect. We’re all in agreement they have had a really poor season, nobody is arguing that point. Under normal circumstances, if they had gone down, nobody at Hearts would be complaining, I’m pretty sure about that, because there would be no grounds for it.

“There hasn’t been any leadership about this, none whatsoever. It’s almost an administrative role at times, but when you get a crisis like this you find out about true leaders and wow, we have lacked that in that organisation.

“Whether you agreed or disagreed with the decision, when Rangers were demoted the effect it had on our game was incredible.

“The standard in the Premiership during the four years Rangers were out of it, and we also lost Hearts and Hibs from it, was the lowest ebb in the history of Scottish football, the lowest standard in the top flight.

“We have to be careful. We haven’t got that many clubs that get in excess of 15,000 fans every week and we have to protect that.

“It would be so irresponsible for our clubs to allow this to happen, so irresponsible.”

He also acknowledges that Hearts have to accept responsibility for their predicament and learn lessons. “This will be a big summer, with Craig moving on,” Pressley, who spent eight years at Hearts from 1998 to 2006, said.

“They have invested heavily and a big part is the recruitment of players and how they go about it. Once Ann knows the future, in terms of which division, because that will have a big effect on the direction of the club. As I experienced at Falkirk, when they were down there with no money, the real saviour of the club was the academy.

“It might be similar for Hearts, especially now when finance in football is in quite a precarious position.

“They have a really good academy there and they should be leaning on that more than they are at the moment.”

 

Discover more from The Ti

 

Great article. Thanks for posting that. 

[OldGorgie]

24 minutes ago, Borders Jambo said:

How disliked we are as a Club - not exactly sure why

Good question. Would be interested to see what others think.

[stuart500]

38 minutes ago, EH23-Jambo said:

Celtic possibly wanting fixtures announced ASAP as it may help the Premiership if legal action comes.

Hopefully fixture 1:

 

Heart of Midlothian v. SPFL (Court of Session Edinburgh. 15th October 2020)

[Tennant's 6's]

35 minutes ago, ramrod said:

So with this no strings offer from the philanthropist she could actual be helping  the Spfls to get way out of this shambles and confirm our place in the Championship . 

She is utterly losing the plot here . There's no way this offer and us playing in the top tier can go hand in hand . It would look like bribery. 

She now need to shut the **** up . She's tried to get these idiots to see the big picture which they have no intention of doing . 

When they confirm this she needs to either challenge the demotion in court and/or point out we expect to be playing a full fixture list in the Championship  next year with a chance of promotion or there will be a legal challenge on that basis . 

 

That's the worry.

We know that these Benefactors are independent from Hearts,  but given their close ties to Budge & support that they've given the club,  surely they can all see that this might be a counter productive move.

 

And Dungcasters snarky comment as well as the sneers from the 'pundits' yesterday was infuriating.  

 

Surely budge & these folk wouldn't do something like this that could hinder our chances of getting reinstated into the premiership

 

 

[ford donald]

16 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Good artcle in The Times :

 

 

Bad news for Hearts is worse news for Scottish football

SPFL decision to allow relegation could have ramifications beyond the Tynecastle club

May 30 2020, The Sunday Times

Scottish football’s capacity for self-harm remains remarkable, even during a global pandemic. The decision to declare the season over, crown Celtic champions and move swiftly onto to the new TV deal with Sky was always going to cause collateral damage, riling Rangers and relegating Hearts for starters, but a small dose of common sense could have stopped it escalating into a full-scale civil war with potential sequels in the courts still to come.

That is Hearts’ nuclear option if their latest stab at finding a consensus on reconstruction among Scotland’s 42 clubs fails to gather the required support this week, and all the indications are that it won’t come close to doing so. Too many turkeys would need to vote for Christmas for a proposed temporary move of three leagues of 14 for two seasons to be approved.

Yet all of this could have been avoided if a principle, widely agreed as sensible by all in Scotland, had been adopted from the outset — that no club should be worse off as a result of what the insurance industry would consider an Act of God.

Leadership was lacking. The proposal to sign off on the season should have been a simple one, that nobody would be relegated without completing their matches and nobody who merited promotion would be denied it.

This could have been achieved with minimum fuss by promoting two clubs to the Premiership and relegating none, Sky have no problem with a 14-team top flight provided it still features four Old Firm games and retaining the Edinburgh derby would have been a welcome bonus.

Dundee United clearly deserved to come up as runaway champions of the Championship and also promoting Inverness, four points clear in second place when the music stopped in March, would have added their Highland derby with Ross County to the viewing schedule.

United and Inverness would have been replaced in the Championship by Falkirk and Raith Rovers, the top two in League One separated by a single point but four clear of the pack.

Cove Rangers and Edinburgh City, the leaders in League Two and both ambitious, well-run outfits, would have been promoted into their places and replaced in the bottom tier by Brora Rangers and Kelty Hearts, winners of the Highland and Lowland Leagues respectively.

Everybody rewarded, nobody punished. Job done. Instead, in their rush, the SPFL have harshly relegated Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer and created a mess that is now heading towards the courts, potentially creating another dimension of chaos as they strive to start next season on time.

Ann Budge, after so much hard graft to bring Hearts back from the brink six years ago, repairing the ravages of the Vladimir Romanov era, now risks her legacy before handing the club over to the supporters, something she is set on despite a bid from Foster Gillett, the son of the former Liverpool owner George Gillett, last week.

They have been sleepwalking towards the trap door all season and did little to suggest in a 1-0 defeat away to St Mirren in the final Premiership fixture before the lockdown that they would have avoided it.

Money has been squandered and Budge had too much faith in Craig Levein to take care of the football side of things.

Appointing Daniel Stendel was a strange choice, too, as Motherwell’s Stephen Robinson was clearly the manager required to avert relegation, given his knowledge of the Scottish scene and ability to work on a restricted budget. Stendel and Hearts have a bilateral break clause in their union, which would mean further tumult in personnel and strategy this summer.

Hearts may have ultimately deserved to go down, but we will never know that for sure and to expel them — the word they insist upon using, with some justification — from the top flight during this crisis is not only unfair but also unwise. Their average attendance of 16,751 this season, a miserable one for their fans, is bettered only by Celtic and Rangers and is higher than Hibs’ or Aberdeen’s. They also carry a large travelling support, which benefits other clubs financially.

There are parallels with Rangers’ demotion to the bottom tier in 2012, after the SPFL rejected readmitting them following their administration and liquidation by a 10-1 vote.

It took Rangers four years to reclaim their top flight status and it seemed to be on pause in this period, with standards slipping and budgets shrinking across the board before their return.

Steven Pressley, who previously played for Rangers, Dundee United and Celtic, as well as captaining Hearts and then managing Falkirk, says that Scotland’s clubs must see “the big picture” rather than focusing on narrow self-interest in the present crisis.

“It’s beyond me the way the SPFL have acted during this period,” he said. “Their first port of call should have been to ensure the stability of all member clubs, especially those we consider to be major clubs.

“Nobody should really lose in these circumstances. Yes, you can have the winners, Celtic declared champions, that’s not a problem, but there can be no losers.

“It has left them in a really difficult predicament because of the Hearts situation — a club that they had to protect. We’re all in agreement they have had a really poor season, nobody is arguing that point. Under normal circumstances, if they had gone down, nobody at Hearts would be complaining, I’m pretty sure about that, because there would be no grounds for it.

“There hasn’t been any leadership about this, none whatsoever. It’s almost an administrative role at times, but when you get a crisis like this you find out about true leaders and wow, we have lacked that in that organisation.

“Whether you agreed or disagreed with the decision, when Rangers were demoted the effect it had on our game was incredible.

“The standard in the Premiership during the four years Rangers were out of it, and we also lost Hearts and Hibs from it, was the lowest ebb in the history of Scottish football, the lowest standard in the top flight.

“We have to be careful. We haven’t got that many clubs that get in excess of 15,000 fans every week and we have to protect that.

“It would be so irresponsible for our clubs to allow this to happen, so irresponsible.”

He also acknowledges that Hearts have to accept responsibility for their predicament and learn lessons. “This will be a big summer, with Craig moving on,” Pressley, who spent eight years at Hearts from 1998 to 2006, said.

“They have invested heavily and a big part is the recruitment of players and how they go about it. Once Ann knows the future, in terms of which division, because that will have a big effect on the direction of the club. As I experienced at Falkirk, when they were down there with no money, the real saviour of the club was the academy.

“It might be similar for Hearts, especially now when finance in football is in quite a precarious position.

“They have a really good academy there and they should be leaning on that more than they are at the moment.”

 

Discover more from The Ti

 

Excellent article,makes a change from all the other crap that is being printed.AB proposal is never going to be accepted,the knives are out already by certain clubs,mostly the diddy ones, I worry about going to court with the case,the SFA could end up punishing us,is it all going to be worth it? I have my doubts,certainly the SPFL board of controllers need to hounded,shocking decisions they have made.

[Beast Boy]

30 minutes ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

Ross County have got the tests ordered in from S Korea according to Twitter.  St Mirren I would have doubts about being able to pay. 

Cheers. Strike them from that list.

[luckydug]

53 minutes ago, ramrod said:

So with this no strings offer from the philanthropist she could actual be helping  the Spfls to get way out of this shambles and confirm our place in the Championship . 

She is utterly losing the plot here . There's no way this offer and us playing in the top tier can go hand in hand . It would look like bribery. 

She now need to shut the **** up . She's tried to get these idiots to see the big picture which they have no intention of doing . 

When they confirm this she needs to either challenge the demotion in court and/or point out we expect to be playing a full fixture list in the Championship  next year with a chance of promotion or there will be a legal challenge on that basis . 

 

I know who needs to shut the **** up

and its not Mrs Budge. 

Does it not cross your mind that due to AB being the go between SPFL and possible benefactors Hearts will not be blamed for the roof falling in on some clubs after we win our case in court.

 

[kingantti1874]

Reasons we are hated:

 

we are the only club who consistently have NOT bent over for rangers and Celtic.. this has led years of negative news stories which have gotten materially worse since 2006 when we really gave them a spanking.

 

Aberdeen hate us becuase we have the support they want, they fancy the third club title biggest but they know whe we get our shit together it’s over for them.

 

Hibs - we’ll self explanatory, years of pumping and clearly being the second club in the city.
 

there is also sadly a political narrative, the hatred of hearts has coincided with the rise of Scottish nationalism.. we are incorrectly perceive as a unionist club. Though clearly hearts are a club who openly welcome all faiths and political views.. there are as many nationalists, as the are unionists  as there are people who don’t give a ****.

 

now this hatred is being compounded by a media narrative which has hinted that this wouldn’t be an issue if it weren’t hearts bottom after 30 games.

 

my position: drag the game to the brink - if they hate us give them good reason to hate us..no help for these teams,  legal action and drag the game to the brink, no away attendances, no spfl Branding, No trophy celebration if we are forced to play in that tin pot league, no warm welcome for away directors, No SPFL officials allowed in tynecastle, away tickets reduces to an absolute minimum as allowed by the rules..  if they hate us fine.. let’s give them good reason

 

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by kingantti1874

[Turkishcap]

Tell me IF it went to court and the judgement went in our favour that none of it was called correct would/could tic have their title stripped away?

[Captain Canada]

I just can't see the Championship going ahead this calendar year. Some clubs have three or four players and they won't recruit any more until a cast iron guaranteed start date is in place. And we all know that can't be given at the moment. 

 

Going by the article in one of the papers this morning, it seems unlikely there will be enough teams in the premier league either. 

 

I could be way off the mark but it's looking more and more like a forced reconstruction will be the only way ahead, perhaps just one league with the clubs that are viable. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Captain Canada

[Seymour M Hersh]

45 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

I'm a bit all over the place with this,to be honest. Like u  I feel the introduction of this money from investors is ill advised. Just be ing exploited i mmediately. What does she expect? Keeps looking for something that isn't there.

 

Pretty sure something about aid with testing costs etc was in her proposal/discussion document about restructuring. 

[Tommy Brown]

2 hours ago, Billybuffjaw said:

If as you suggest there will be a 2nd 3rd and 4th wave football will be irrelevant.

As @ToqueJambo implies, a 2nd wave could stop football in its tracks.

Not Celtic at the top and Hibs bottom.

Would make great vote to end the season.

[Seymour M Hersh]

48 minutes ago, tolcross lad said:

It could matter if the philanthropic gesture enabled clubs like Killie or St Mirren finance BCD and allow a 12 team SPL function with Hearts stuck somewhere else.I would not trust the SPFL with a no strings attached offer.

 

No strings attached by Hearts or AB but maybe the benefactors will want to retain control in spending of the cash. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

My problem with the Times article is that it perpetuates the idea that some clubs are too big to go down. That’s fine but lots of us get annoyed when the Old Firm are looked at in that way. I didn’t understand the reference to the Huns in 2012 - ultimately, the game has to have some standards and they deserved everything they got.

 

We’re a different case but I don’t want us kept in the Premiership purely on the basis that the division can’t afford to lose us. That’s the overriding problem with Scottish football in the first place 

 

[TyphoonJambo]

32 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

To some extent. The part about Rangers? They cheated everyone for a decade. There was no other place for them to go. They created that themselves. This is an entirely different situation. The start of that article was spot on,showing how reconstruction could be achieved without hurting any clubs. 

Hard to argue with any if your points

[stuart500]

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

No strings attached by Hearts or AB but maybe the benefactors will want to retain control in spending of the cash. 

You would like to think so.

 

I wouldn't actually put it past Doncaster trying to claim 10% of the money as his bonus for "attracting this new investment" or some such pish. 

 

Hopefully it goes directly to the club involved with no dirty hands on it.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Anyone know who our two QCs are?

[AlimOzturk]

Everyone has different opinions with regards to what happened with Rangers. I certainly felt strongly at the time they deserved  everything they got. Now, with being expelled ourselves I am not so sure. Different circumstances of course. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Daily record article out, biggest clubs that depend on match day income at most risk. 

Study of  100 teams in Europe. 

 

Rangers and celtic top the list. 

Reporting that rangers get 66% of income from match day, celtic 45%.

 

For comparison, Bournemouth get 4%.

 

Scottish football better wake up soon. 

 

Lots of English championship teams on it as well who reportedly already have high debts. 

 

Anyone know our revenue % from match day? 

 

 

 

[Austin MacGlee]

1 hour ago, ramrod said:

So with this no strings offer from the philanthropist she could actual be helping  the Spfls to get way out of this shambles and confirm our place in the Championship . 

She is utterly losing the plot here . There's no way this offer and us playing in the top tier can go hand in hand . It would look like bribery. 

She now need to shut the **** up . She's tried to get these idiots to see the big picture which they have no intention of doing . 

When they confirm this she needs to either challenge the demotion in court and/or point out we expect to be playing a full fixture list in the Championship  next year with a chance of promotion or there will be a legal challenge on that basis . 

 

Can't disagree with any of this. Feel more and more like she's needing to take a step back and say nothing for a bit whilst focusing on mounting a legal challenge. The more she speaks right now the more desperate she looks.

Just want court proceedings to get underway and for her to stop pandering to these ***** who want to see us suffer. **** them all.

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

My problem with the Times article is that it perpetuates the idea that some clubs are too big to go down. That’s fine but lots of us get annoyed when the Old Firm are looked at in that way. I didn’t understand the reference to the Huns in 2012 - ultimately, the game has to have some standards and they deserved everything they got.

 

We’re a different case but I don’t want us kept in the Premiership purely on the basis that the division can’t afford to lose us. That’s the overriding problem with Scottish football in the first place 

 

 

 

Fair point. 

 

But we shouldn't be demoted because the league was called early during a pandemic. 

 

If folk can't get on board with that, I don't think Hearts are for them tbh. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Anyone know who our two QCs are?

 

Take your pick.😎

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Scottish_Queen's_Counsel

[David McCaig]

Just now, AlimOzturk said:

Everyone has different opinions with regards to what happened with Rangers. I certainly felt strongly at the time they deserved  everything they got. Now, with being expelled ourselves I am not so sure. Different circumstances of course. 

They were liquidated, the only bone of contention is that they were allowed to place a new club into L2 rather than the Lowland League.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, Austin MacGlee said:

Can't disagree with any of this. Feel more and more like she's needing to take a step back and say nothing for a bit whilst focusing on mounting a legal challenge. The more she speaks right now the more desperate she looks.

Just want court proceedings to get underway and for her to stop pandering to these ***** who want to see us suffer. **** them all.

 

 

Still not realising that all the pandering actually strengthens our court case?

 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 minutes ago, stuart500 said:

You would like to think so.

 

I wouldn't actually put it past Doncaster trying to claim 10% of the money as his bonus for "attracting this new investment" or some such pish. 

 

Hopefully it goes directly to the club involved with no dirty hands on it.

 

I'm not sure I'd some of these shitehouse chairman not to spend it on other things then claim poverty. My choice would be for the companies doing the testing etc to directly invoice the benefactors. Keeps any cash away from grubby chairmen of pissant clubs. 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Everyone has different opinions with regards to what happened with Rangers. I certainly felt strongly at the time they deserved  everything they got. Now, with being expelled ourselves I am not so sure. Different circumstances of course. 

 

 

Not even close. 

 

They were liquidated For starters. For bumping tax. 

V

Pandemic and season ending early 

 

Ridiculous to even think about comparing the situations. 

 

Rangers it could be argued got off lightly.

 

 

 

[ming the merciless]

3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Still not realising that all the pandering actually strengthens our court case?

 

 

I don’t think they do. AB is playing a blinder here. 

[ford donald]

4 minutes ago, Austin MacGlee said:

Can't disagree with any of this. Feel more and more like she's needing to take a step back and say nothing for a bit whilst focusing on mounting a legal challenge. The more she speaks right now the more desperate she looks.

Just want court proceedings to get underway and for her to stop pandering to these ***** who want to see us suffer. **** them all.

 The more she speaks out,the more she will be disliked by others,who want Hearts sent down.

[Austin MacGlee]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Still not realising that all the pandering actually strengthens our court case?

 

 

I get this and there's merit in the thinking but she's submitted the reconstruction discussion and spelled out her rationale, offered Tynecastle facilities etc and that is surely enough along with the demotion and vote farce. I'd like some dignified silence from the club now and let the scum clubs who are desperate to see us suffer stew and sweat in the knowledge that we're off to court and it's going to cost them all. Big.

[busby1985]

4 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

My problem with the Times article is that it perpetuates the idea that some clubs are too big to go down. That’s fine but lots of us get annoyed when the Old Firm are looked at in that way. I didn’t understand the reference to the Huns in 2012 - ultimately, the game has to have some standards and they deserved everything they got.

 

We’re a different case but I don’t want us kept in the Premiership purely on the basis that the division can’t afford to lose us. That’s the overriding problem with Scottish football in the first place 

 

I agree with your point about the non sense that we are too big to go down, old firm fan type chat. However, we haven’t gone down on our own merits, we’ve been voted out the league and that for me is a different situation. Voting a club of our size out the top league, in the current climate, is mental and I don’t care if that upsets Hamilton fans and I also don’t care if we would or wouldn’t be bothered if the shoe was on the other foot. If Rangers had been top by 4 points with 24 points available, we’d be looking at 2 weeks and the top flight resuming like the EPL. That is a discussion for another day tho. We have been voted out due to self interest and our plans to try help save the game up here are being ignored due to self interest and pettiness. This is an opportunity for the “smaller” clubs to stick the boot into us and by the reaction of their fans across social media, they are loving it. Again, if we had been relegated having played 38 games then we’d have had to take our medicine, which we would’ve, and moved on. That hasn’t happened tho and we are 100% too big to be voted out without it having a massive impact on our game and product. 
 

All just my opinion of course bud and none of the above is me having a pop at you of course. 

[maroonsgotop]

1 hour ago, David McCaig said:

Good artcle in The Times :

 

 

Bad news for Hearts is worse news for Scottish football

SPFL decision to allow relegation could have ramifications beyond the Tynecastle club

May 30 2020, The Sunday Times

Scottish football’s capacity for self-harm remains remarkable, even during a global pandemic. The decision to declare the season over, crown Celtic champions and move swiftly onto to the new TV deal with Sky was always going to cause collateral damage, riling Rangers and relegating Hearts for starters, but a small dose of common sense could have stopped it escalating into a full-scale civil war with potential sequels in the courts still to come.

That is Hearts’ nuclear option if their latest stab at finding a consensus on reconstruction among Scotland’s 42 clubs fails to gather the required support this week, and all the indications are that it won’t come close to doing so. Too many turkeys would need to vote for Christmas for a proposed temporary move of three leagues of 14 for two seasons to be approved.

Yet all of this could have been avoided if a principle, widely agreed as sensible by all in Scotland, had been adopted from the outset — that no club should be worse off as a result of what the insurance industry would consider an Act of God.

Leadership was lacking. The proposal to sign off on the season should have been a simple one, that nobody would be relegated without completing their matches and nobody who merited promotion would be denied it.

This could have been achieved with minimum fuss by promoting two clubs to the Premiership and relegating none, Sky have no problem with a 14-team top flight provided it still features four Old Firm games and retaining the Edinburgh derby would have been a welcome bonus.

Dundee United clearly deserved to come up as runaway champions of the Championship and also promoting Inverness, four points clear in second place when the music stopped in March, would have added their Highland derby with Ross County to the viewing schedule.

United and Inverness would have been replaced in the Championship by Falkirk and Raith Rovers, the top two in League One separated by a single point but four clear of the pack.

Cove Rangers and Edinburgh City, the leaders in League Two and both ambitious, well-run outfits, would have been promoted into their places and replaced in the bottom tier by Brora Rangers and Kelty Hearts, winners of the Highland and Lowland Leagues respectively.

Everybody rewarded, nobody punished. Job done. Instead, in their rush, the SPFL have harshly relegated Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer and created a mess that is now heading towards the courts, potentially creating another dimension of chaos as they strive to start next season on time.

Ann Budge, after so much hard graft to bring Hearts back from the brink six years ago, repairing the ravages of the Vladimir Romanov era, now risks her legacy before handing the club over to the supporters, something she is set on despite a bid from Foster Gillett, the son of the former Liverpool owner George Gillett, last week.

They have been sleepwalking towards the trap door all season and did little to suggest in a 1-0 defeat away to St Mirren in the final Premiership fixture before the lockdown that they would have avoided it.

Money has been squandered and Budge had too much faith in Craig Levein to take care of the football side of things.

Appointing Daniel Stendel was a strange choice, too, as Motherwell’s Stephen Robinson was clearly the manager required to avert relegation, given his knowledge of the Scottish scene and ability to work on a restricted budget. Stendel and Hearts have a bilateral break clause in their union, which would mean further tumult in personnel and strategy this summer.

Hearts may have ultimately deserved to go down, but we will never know that for sure and to expel them — the word they insist upon using, with some justification — from the top flight during this crisis is not only unfair but also unwise. Their average attendance of 16,751 this season, a miserable one for their fans, is bettered only by Celtic and Rangers and is higher than Hibs’ or Aberdeen’s. They also carry a large travelling support, which benefits other clubs financially.

There are parallels with Rangers’ demotion to the bottom tier in 2012, after the SPFL rejected readmitting them following their administration and liquidation by a 10-1 vote.

It took Rangers four years to reclaim their top flight status and it seemed to be on pause in this period, with standards slipping and budgets shrinking across the board before their return.

Steven Pressley, who previously played for Rangers, Dundee United and Celtic, as well as captaining Hearts and then managing Falkirk, says that Scotland’s clubs must see “the big picture” rather than focusing on narrow self-interest in the present crisis.

“It’s beyond me the way the SPFL have acted during this period,” he said. “Their first port of call should have been to ensure the stability of all member clubs, especially those we consider to be major clubs.

“Nobody should really lose in these circumstances. Yes, you can have the winners, Celtic declared champions, that’s not a problem, but there can be no losers.

“It has left them in a really difficult predicament because of the Hearts situation — a club that they had to protect. We’re all in agreement they have had a really poor season, nobody is arguing that point. Under normal circumstances, if they had gone down, nobody at Hearts would be complaining, I’m pretty sure about that, because there would be no grounds for it.

“There hasn’t been any leadership about this, none whatsoever. It’s almost an administrative role at times, but when you get a crisis like this you find out about true leaders and wow, we have lacked that in that organisation.

“Whether you agreed or disagreed with the decision, when Rangers were demoted the effect it had on our game was incredible.

“The standard in the Premiership during the four years Rangers were out of it, and we also lost Hearts and Hibs from it, was the lowest ebb in the history of Scottish football, the lowest standard in the top flight.

“We have to be careful. We haven’t got that many clubs that get in excess of 15,000 fans every week and we have to protect that.

“It would be so irresponsible for our clubs to allow this to happen, so irresponsible.”

He also acknowledges that Hearts have to accept responsibility for their predicament and learn lessons. “This will be a big summer, with Craig moving on,” Pressley, who spent eight years at Hearts from 1998 to 2006, said.

“They have invested heavily and a big part is the recruitment of players and how they go about it. Once Ann knows the future, in terms of which division, because that will have a big effect on the direction of the club. As I experienced at Falkirk, when they were down there with no money, the real saviour of the club was the academy.

“It might be similar for Hearts, especially now when finance in football is in quite a precarious position.

“They have a really good academy there and they should be leaning on that more than they are at the moment.”

 

Discover more from The Ti

says it all and of course far too sensible an approach for the SPFL to follow. Absolute clowns just like the vast majority of club owners

[DETTY29]

19 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

No strings attached by Hearts or AB but maybe the benefactors will want to retain control in spending of the cash. 

You would like to think so.

 

Sometimes I'm not sure AB communicates her message too well.  This is a time where more words and clarity were required and said 'no strings aligned to reconstructions or what league Hearts play in'

 

If its lower league only, that's a condition.

 

If it's testing support, that's a condition.

 

And as mentioned there bloody better be that it's not an income generating related bonus for Doncaster.

Edited May 31, 2020 by DETTY29

[husref musemic]

6 minutes ago, Austin MacGlee said:

Can't disagree with any of this. Feel more and more like she's needing to take a step back and say nothing for a bit whilst focusing on mounting a legal challenge. The more she speaks right now the more desperate she looks.

Just want court proceedings to get underway and for her to stop pandering to these ***** who want to see us suffer. **** them all.

she said yesterday that they have the opinions of two QCs & are ready if and when.

i thought yesterday was an utter embarrassment to Doncaster.... just when you thought his incompetence can't get worse.

submit a paper in a week's time so we can look at the no strings attached free millions. 

 

 

[Riccarton3]

27 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Reasons we are hated:

 

we are the only club who consistently have NOT bent over for rangers and Celtic.. this has led years of negative news stories which have gotten materially worse since 2006 when we really gave them a spanking.

 

Aberdeen hate us becuase we have the support they want, they fancy the third club title biggest but they know whe we get our shit together it’s over for them.

 

Hibs - we’ll self explanatory, years of pumping and clearly being the second club in the city.
 

there is also sadly a political narrative, the hatred of hearts has coincided with the rise of Scottish nationalism.. we are incorrectly perceive as a unionist club. Though clearly hearts are a club who openly welcome all faiths and political views.. there are as many nationalists, as the are unionists  as there are people who don’t give a ****.

 

now this hatred is being compounded by a media narrative which has hinted that this wouldn’t be an issue if it weren’t hearts bottom after 30 games.

 

my position: drag the game to the brink - if they hate us give them good reason to hate us..no help for these teams,  legal action and drag the game to the brink, no away attendances, no spfl Branding, No trophy celebration if we are forced to play in that tin pot league, no warm welcome for away directors, No SPFL officials allowed in tynecastle, away tickets reduces to an absolute minimum as allowed by the rules..  if they hate us fine.. let’s give them good reason

 

 

The media hatred is simple.

 

The Rangers died and the Hearts survived.

 

Basically, you have ******s with typewriters able to extol their bile day in day out to expel their bitterness with no editorial check. People wonder at the level of hatred. That's it right there. They would happily see the club go under because of what happened to Rangers and their self inflicted demise. Their bile extends beyond any care for the game. Not even close. Just my opinion.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Riccarton3