SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

4 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

And Denie Kelty and Nora of any opportunity. 

 

I'd like to know why at the very least the play offs never happened. 

 

If the league was as is when the music stopped why were play offs scrapped, a handful of games that could be do e within 2 weeks. 

 

At least then thr league was completed 100% as normal, albeit early. 

 

This isn't discussed enough imo, what was the logic and reasoning to rule out the play Offs completely but make sure relegation had to happen, why is one really important and the other not at all? 

 

I do not know if it will feature in our case but after the calling of the leagues the assumption that there had to be relegation has always been wrong in my mind, even more so as they did away with the play-offs. The competitions were set up to contain relegation and the play-offs, with each as integral as the other. There was not, and never has been, a rule or get out clause that says the play-offs are any more liable to cancellation than relegation is, and so, by cancelling the play-offs they've basically made it clear that there was no need for any form of relegation in a curtailed league season, or put another way, no need to meet each league's commitment to the league below over promotion in the event of the early ending of the league. There can be little doubt, too, that Hamilton would not have voted in favour of the resolution if they'd still had to face the prospect of play-offs and that would have been enough to defeat the motion, leaving the only way forward, almost certainly, reconstruction - or no promotion.

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Biased Richard Gordon straight into us. 

 

He must be hurting after the roasting he got last week.

[tcjambo]

2 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Robbie saying we can’t do anything with the players. Thanks to the SPFL which must be a restriction of trade not allowing us to train. 

I guess the arument would be that it is our decision to put them on furlough

[Nelly Terraces]

It's clear Dick 'Paxman' Gordon hates Hearts & is also completely incapable of being a professional broadcaster. As with all of these old firm loving welts he's also a whopping great hypocrite.

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Robbie saying we can’t do anything with the players. Thanks to the SPFL which must be a restriction of trade not allowing us to train. 

 

It's the SNP in Holyrood that have only allowed the top league to start training.

[tokyowalnut]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

Robbie saying we can’t do anything with the players. Thanks to the SPFL which must be a restriction of trade not allowing us to train. 

Not really a restriction of trade. If we could afford to, we could take the players off furlough, pay full wage and send them training plans, but financially that doesnt really make sense. I'd be very surprised if there hasnt been personal training plans passed to players. 

 

Players should be keeping themselves fit. Knowing that the season starting is imminent, I'd assume they have all upped their own personal training regime.

 

[Cade]

Seeing as play-offs are almost like a miniature cup competition done post-season, and the SFA seem to think that the 19-20 Scottish Cup can be completed......how can there be a case for NOT having the playoffs?

[tcjambo]

1 minute ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It's the SNP in Holyrood that have only allowed the top league to start training.

I think we can expect a comment from a certain poster now that you have mentioned the magic word lol

[Seymour M Hersh]

I really hope ourselves and Thistle lay waste to Scottish football as it stands. 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Seymour M Hersh

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 hour ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Especially when the influence that was exerted helped take the percentage in favour to the endlessly repeated 81%, even though it only actually passed by one vote, one extremely dodgy vote.

Percentage would have fallen below 80.

 

Statistical irrelevance,  how many votes required in each League is all that ever mattered .

 

Pushing to close the vote before Government confirmed is interesting but history probably backs the decision in reality. 

 

I don't think we will win on suggesting that the season be completed,  though I believe there is something in the expiration of one TV deal being paid off, to a new one appearing being heavily influenced in the decision making,  hastily and without due care to all members 

 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 minute ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

Aye. Still got a block of ice up his toaly tank as was like a map of Bonanza after last week's hot poker lancing. 

 

Utter wank.

Beautiful. 

 

Just beautiful 

[Bazzas right boot]

4 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It's the SNP in Holyrood that have only allowed the top league to start training.

 

Incorrect, elite football/sport. 

How that was defined for football was put forward by..... The SPFL or sfa, I forget which one. 

 

The snp have not said only the top 12 clubs can start and the rest can't. That is not their policy at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

4 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Incorrect, elite football/sport. 

How that was defined for football was put forward by..... The SPFL or sfa, I forget which one. 

 

The snp have not said only the top 12 clubs can start and the rest can't. That is not their policy at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

As thing's stand not practical for us to begin. 

 

Plenty of English teams will be available for warm up matches if we succeed 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, Sir Gio said:

As thing's stand not practical for us to begin. 

 

Plenty of English teams will be available for warm up matches if we succeed 

 

Yeah. 

Ironically, for some teams going back to training now with no crowds will be  detrimental to their finances. 

 

It could be argued going back in October for a lot of teams  would have been better. 

Finances will be further strained as they can't use furlough. 

[Ethan Hunt]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

Just an observation from the two document extracts I have posted today.

 

The Briefing note to clubs, only makes mention of costs associated with broadcasting contracts in the context of voiding the season.  However, the second extract is part of the QC's advice to the SPFL Board, where he states that he couldn't exclude a claim for "unjustified enrichment" for games not played/broadcast. He also notes that the SPFL was already on notice of a risk of a claim should games not be played.

 

That potential liability was not communicated to the clubs, therefore the arbitration panel could consider it to be a serious omission from the resolution.

Hence why Rangers accused Doncaster of being in breach of his fiduciary duties.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/part/10/chapter/2/crossheading/the-general-duties

 

Edit: His reported £91k bonus for the 20/21 TV deal is a definite conflict of interest.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Ethan Hunt

[Fareastjambo]

31 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

Aye. Still got a block of ice up his toaly tank as was like a map of Bonanza after last week's hot poker lancing. 

 

Utter wank.

 

Sheer poetry! 😂😂

[Ethan Hunt]

20 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Percentage would have fallen below 80.

 

Statistical irrelevance,  how many votes required in each League is all that ever mattered .

 

Pushing to close the vote before Government confirmed is interesting but history probably backs the decision in reality. 

 

I don't think we will win on suggesting that the season be completed,  though I believe there is something in the expiration of one TV deal being paid off, to a new one appearing being heavily influenced in the decision making,  hastily and without due care to all members 

 

 

Not to Doncaster, hence he repeatedly trots out 81% of club voted in favour line rather than the more accurate, the resolution passed by one vote. Donkey loves a good statistic that is in his favour.

 

Hindsight won’t be applied by the arbitration panel. I would be shining a big light on why the SPFL were in such a rush to have the vote through before the Scottish Governments first 21 day review had even taken place. The Scottish Government have been cautious and considered throughout. The SPFL jumped in head first, why?

 

There are lots of decisions and actions that will be unpicked and scrutinised. By doing so it will reveal the motives for SPFL acting in the way they did, and with the speed they did. That’s going to be hard for them to explain. Governments and Health agencies all over the world took a considered and measured approach. No-one was going to die as a result of football matches being played so why the hurry?

 

Disclaimer- Despite commenting on the Scottish Government I do so as it directly relates to a particular point being made about the SPFL decision making process. It is not meant to start some pointless political discussion by the usual suspects. Ta.

[TyphoonJambo]

35 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

Aye. Still got a block of ice up his toaly tank as was like a map of Bonanza after last week's hot poker lancing. 

 

Utter wank.

Would you mind if i plagiarised this for my shakespearian comedies dissertation? 

[Horatio Caine]

Has Willie Miller been put out to grass? Or perhaps he's away on holiday - eg to Spain.

[Kiwidoug]

As a member of the arbitration panel, I'm not sure Jonno should be posting on here.  No one would contest his impartiality but still.

[Kiwidoug]

6 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

You having trouble sleeping, Doug ?

 

Is it not about 3 30 am on a cold winter's night down there ? 

 

They should get me on the arbitration panel....

Yep.  2.30.  Was asleep by 7 last night but wide awake now.  Will probably head back to the scratcher soon though.

[One five]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It's the SNP in Holyrood that have only allowed the top league to start training.

What I can’t get my head around  is why ! Is the lower leagues more likely to get  COVID 😂😂😂

 

I take it because some lower teams don’t have the cash to finance the safety rules so have to be fair on all teams that are playing in the same league !!!!

 

well there’s a joke!!!!!!!!.  .  

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Jonno Ethan on the panel for a bit of variety. 

 

Sergey should be the third,  so they can be ridiculed constantly through the process. 

[Bazzas right boot]

I'm gonna set something on fire. 

Get so angry with the media, far more than I should. 

[Phil D. Corners]

50 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Not to Doncaster, hence he repeatedly trots out 81% of club voted in favour line rather than the more accurate, the resolution passed by one vote. Donkey loves a good statistic that is in his favour.

 

Hindsight won’t be applied by the arbitration panel. I would be shining a big light on why the SPFL were in such a rush to have the vote through before the Scottish Governments first 21 day review had even taken place. The Scottish Government have been cautious and considered throughout. The SPFL jumped in head first, why?

 

There are lots of decisions and actions that will be unpicked and scrutinised. By doing so it will reveal the motives for SPFL acting in the way they did, and with the speed they did. That’s going to be hard for them to explain. Governments and Health agencies all over the world took a considered and measured approach. No-one was going to die as a result of football matches being played so why the hurry?

 

Disclaimer- Despite commenting on the Scottish Government I do so as it directly relates to a particular point being made about the SPFL decision making process. It is not meant to start some pointless political discussion by the usual suspects. Ta.

The 81% figure is irrelevant. It’s used to make it sound like it was a majority. 
 

Think that in the premiership we have the 11/1 voting system. That means 83% can be in agreement on a resolution but it will still fail.
 

My/our argument is still that when the deadline of 5 pm had past the resolution to end the league had failed by 1 vote. 
 

5 days later the resolution succeeded by the changed vote from Dundee. 

 

 

 

 

 

[merseyjambo]

Begging bowl out but.......

 

https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/news/6499/JACK-NEWMAN-ARRIVES-AT-TANNADICE.html?key=dufc&utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=Dundee%20United%20Football%20Club

[7628mm]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It's the SNP in Holyrood that have only allowed the top league to start training.

 

Is this actually the case?

Did the SPFL and SFA ask for all Scottish professional Football to be allowed to start training or did they just ask for the SPL to start as they were hoping for an August 1st start? The other leagues were not scheduled to start until October as agreed between the Clubs and SPFL.

I ask this as all 42 clubs were "in a way" given money from a benefactor to pay for all the Covid testing to be carried out to facilitate a return to training.

[wavydavy]

2 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It's the SNP in Holyrood that have only allowed the top league to start training.

 

Maybe if the other leagues had fixtures then they would be able to do likewise.

 

It is the Scottish Government who take the advice of their scientific advisors that make the decisions not the SNP.

Edited July 11, 2020 by wavydavy

[number-16]

15 minutes ago, 7628mm said:

 

Is this actually the case?

Did the SPFL and SFA ask for all Scottish professional Football to be allowed to start training or did they just ask for the SPL to start as they were hoping for an August 1st start? The other leagues were not scheduled to start until October as agreed between the Clubs and SPFL.

I ask this as all 42 clubs were "in a way" given money from a benefactor to pay for all the Covid testing to be carried out to facilitate a return to training.

The Scottish Football Joint Response Group (comprising the SFA Chair (Petrie), SFA Chief Executive (Maxwell), SPFL Chief Executive (Doncaster) and SFA Doctor made the recommendation to the Scottish Government.

 

Notably they made that recommendation more than two weeks before the Championship agreed to delay playing again until October.

[TyphoonJambo]

16 minutes ago, 7628mm said:

 

Is this actually the case?

Did the SPFL and SFA ask for all Scottish professional Football to be allowed to start training or did they just ask for the SPL to start as they were hoping for an August 1st start? The other leagues were not scheduled to start until October as agreed between the Clubs and SPFL.

I ask this as all 42 clubs were "in a way" given money from a benefactor to pay for all the Covid testing to be carried out to facilitate a return to training.

Exactly, i think mr Andersons generosity may have been taken advantage off. Doesn't strike me as the gullible type mind🤔

[Last Laff]

Dundee can still use the clause to make players redundant because they aren’t allowed to go back to training.  It’s the government who haven’t given then green light to it.  

[7628mm]

8 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Maybe if the other leagues had fixtures then they would be able to do likewise.

 

It is the Scottish Government who take the advice of their scientific advisors that make the decisions not the SNP.

 

3 minutes ago, number-16 said:

The Scottish Football Joint Response Group (comprising the SFA Chair (Petrie), SFA Chief Executive (Maxwell), SPFL Chief Executive (Doncaster) and SFA Doctor made the recommendation to the Scottish Government.

 

Notably they made that recommendation more than two weeks before the Championship agreed to delay playing again until October.

 

2 minutes ago, TypoonJambo said:

Exactly, i think mr Andersons generosity may have been taken advantage off. Doesn't strike me as the gullible type mind🤔

 

After asking the initial question I have had a wee look on google (is your friend) and found the following:

 

https://spfl.co.uk/news/coronavirus-joint-response-group-update-29th-may

 

https://www.clubcall.com/news/2020/06/05/sfa-chief-eyes-route-map-for-swift-return-of-every-level-of-scottish-football/

 

Extracts from these suggest to me that the SFA/SPFL only "asked" for the SPL as they intimate that they will "provide a similar plan for the rest (in bold) of the game

 

“In particular, I would like to thank our Chief Medical Consultant, Dr John MacLean, for his invaluable input throughout this process. As a JRG member and co-chair of the medical sub group, he has overseen creation of a comprehensive strategy for testing procedures and safe ‘return to training’ and ‘return to playing’ protocols that have given confidence that the Scottish Premiership can kick-off in August.

“As the governing body, we will continue to engage with government and key stakeholders to provide a similar plan for the return of the game at all levels of Scottish football. While acknowledging that the current testing regime required to be observed will be prohibitive for most clubs out with the Premiership at this time, we are aware that there are hundreds of thousands of players across the Scottish football landscape looking for clarity on when they can return to action.

 

They only asked for the SPL and were granted this by the Scottish Government.

[kila]

1 minute ago, Last Laff said:

Dundee can still use the clause to make players redundant because they aren’t allowed to go back to training.  It’s the government who haven’t given then green light to it.  

 

Green light what though? I thought elite sport could continue. But teams that won't play until October are keeping players on furlough as long as possible as training now would mean taking them off it.

 

[7628mm]

3 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Dundee can still use the clause to make players redundant because they aren’t allowed to go back to training.  It’s the government who haven’t given then green light to it.  

 

It is true that the government have not given permission for them to start training but if you look at my posts above you will see that the SFA/SPFL have yet to ask the government for this permission.

It makes no sense to paint the Scottish Government as the bad guys here if they have not even been asked.

If there is any fault here it lies firmly at the doors of the SFA/SPFL. Now who would have thought that?

 

[Cruyff]

Robbie ripping into MK Don's

[Cruyff]

I do love Robbie. He's proper Hearts. ❤️

[Ethan Hunt]

45 minutes ago, Phil D. Corners said:

The 81% figure is irrelevant. It’s used to make it sound like it was a majority. 
 

Think that in the premiership we have the 11/1 voting system. That means 83% can be in agreement on a resolution but it will still fail.
 

My/our argument is still that when the deadline of 5 pm had past the resolution to end the league had failed by 1 vote. 
 

5 days later the resolution succeeded by the changed vote from Dundee. 

I know the 81% is irrelevant, you know it’s irrelevant, ffs everyone knows it’s irrelevant, even Doncaster!! That doesn’t stop him trotting that line out to any fecker that might listen in an effort to make it sound relevant.
 

It really sounds that Doncaster is pinning all his hopes on the 81%. Unfortunately for him his witness statement/testimony Will need a wee bit more to it than that.

[Leveins Battalion]

3 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I do love Robbie. He's proper Hearts. ❤️

This.

 

Also Cruyff you'll be glad to know we never tried to sign the fat striker from Dunfermline😂

[SMJ_1874]

50 minutes ago, Phil D. Corners said:

The 81% figure is irrelevant. It’s used to make it sound like it was a majority. 
 

Think that in the premiership we have the 11/1 voting system. That means 83% can be in agreement on a resolution but it will still fail.
 

My/our argument is still that when the deadline of 5 pm had past the resolution to end the league had failed by 1 vote. 
 

5 days later the resolution succeeded by the changed vote from Dundee. 

 

 

 

 

 

100% of clubs were fed bullsit. 81% of them bought it. However 19% of them  seen through the bullshit peddled by the donkey. He’s fooling no one with his rhetoric and if he repeats it often enough, then maybe he’ll convince himself and the other sheep that it was a done deal. The 19% however know otherwise. 

[colinmaroon]

5 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Robbie ripping into MK Don's

 

 

Where, when?

 

 

[HMFC01]

6 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I do love Robbie. He's proper Hearts. ❤️

 

On the subject of availability of players due to covid.  Robbie " It's fluct' ", what a guy  

[MarkDevriesScores4]

1 minute ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

Where, when?

 

 

Sportsound. He just said the fans were a bit soulless and didn’t really care if they won, lost or drew.

[Ethan Hunt]

2 hours ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

I do not know if it will feature in our case but after the calling of the leagues the assumption that there had to be relegation has always been wrong in my mind, even more so as they did away with the play-offs. The competitions were set up to contain relegation and the play-offs, with each as integral as the other. There was not, and never has been, a rule or get out clause that says the play-offs are any more liable to cancellation than relegation is, and so, by cancelling the play-offs they've basically made it clear that there was no need for any form of relegation in a curtailed league season, or put another way, no need to meet each league's commitment to the league below over promotion in the event of the early ending of the league. There can be little doubt, too, that Hamilton would not have voted in favour of the resolution if they'd still had to face the prospect of play-offs and that would have been enough to defeat the motion, leaving the only way forward, almost certainly, reconstruction - or no promotion.

Agreed. It was lucky for Hamilton and Brechin that they had people on the SPFL board to make sure the play offs were binned, therefore protecting their status in their respective leagues. 

 

Anyone might think this was a carve up, but there were no other options apparently.

[Philo2012]

KSurely Police Scotland would be interested in the Sponsored Walk by 2 Dundee United supporters.Could invite supporter trouble.If there was trouble would give the media more ammunition against Hearts and Partick.Hopefully arbitration board would not be swayed by bad press about Hearts(possibly Hibs )supporter trouble.Seems antagonistic and not very well timed.Could be a PLOY to damage arbitration process.

[Seymour M Hersh]

49 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Maybe if the other leagues had fixtures then they would be able to do likewise.

 

It is the Scottish Government who take the advice of their scientific advisors that make the decisions not the SNP.

 

You mean I love me Jason Leitch? A dentist.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

You mean I love me Jason Leitch? A dentist.

Done well for himself all the same. Take my hat off to those who maximize their potential 

[Philo2012]

What is it with the SPFL....McLennan statement about CONCERN about Partick and Stranraer.No Hearts!!!!Also on the SPFL website Hearts not shown in premiership or championship???Dundee United shown in both leagues.Do they really want to completely ignore us?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

29 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Agreed. It was lucky for Hamilton and Brechin that they had people on the SPFL board to make sure the play offs were binned, therefore protecting their status in their respective leagues. 

 

Anyone might think this was a carve up, but there were no other options apparently.

 

Of course it would have been impossible to plan on the off chance a a few games could be played in mid July or even completing the Scottish Cup. Much more important to let Celtic jet off to a tournament in France. How's that going to work with quarantine rules by the way?

[Riccarton3]

Bbc using tabloid language . The three clubs DRAGGED into a legal fight. Little hidden  where our national broadcaster stands. These are not opinion pieces. 

 

Also the joint statement of Hearts and Thistle where SPFL good faith is actually questioned  - you might think that's important - had a short shelf life.

 

I think the BBC is a bit like the SPFL. Not fit for purpose

[Riccarton3]

7 minutes ago, Philo2012 said:

What is it with the SPFL....McLennan statement about CONCERN about Partick and Stranraer.No Hearts!!!!Also on the SPFL website Hearts not shown in premiership or championship???Dundee United shown in both leagues.Do they really want to completely ignore us?

I think your first point, the lower leagues were called before the top one so no reference to Hearts at that point.