SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Certainly won't officially be Champions if the resolution was overturned. 

 

 

Maybe, although our petition specifically said we would protect titles awarded. It's possible to award the title and have promotion but no relegation, Up to the SPFL.

[Mikey1874]

9 minutes ago, Anything2 said:

If they had voted for reconstruction they would have had a lot more credibility as well as it being a smarter business decision knowing that their promotion could be overturned in court. By voting against they have said that it should be an either or so if the arbitration panel side with us, they really can't grumble as they have said that there should be no reconstruction. 

 

I think their voting against Reconstruction will hurt them at the Arbitration. What happened with reconstruction will be considered by the panel. 

[Nookie Bear]

Just now, Interested Bystander said:

 

You'll have to ask SE16 3LN 

Oh c’mon. If you have the balls to come on here then you can tell us. 

[milky_26]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Maybe, although our petition specifically said we would protect titles awarded. It's possible to award the title and have promotion but no relegation, Up to the SPFL.

it is also possible to award titles but have no promotions

[Toxteth O'Grady]

1 minute ago, milky_26 said:

they were named as respondents in our petition as it would directly affect them, but in a good way unlike the three stoogies

Ah - thats good

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, milky_26 said:

they were named as respondents in our petition as it would directly affect them, but in a good way unlike the three stoogies

 

Exactly, This makes the whole Hearts and PT are targeting D Utd and co thing ridiculous. They're all interested parties. It's up to them what they do with that information. And they knew this ages ago, or should have. Certainly it should have factored into their reconstruction votes but clearly they were willing to risk a court case and here we are.

[Brave Hearts]

2 hours ago, Interested Bystander said:

 

4. was an afterthought. I was in favour of 14-10-10-10, but knew it had no chance of getting passed after that suspiciously well informed letter. You were asking a lot of clubs to take a serious financial hit, and though I doubt it would have passed anyway, that kyboshed any chances of it. You might say Leslie Deans wasn't representing the club, but it matched exactly what the club ended up doing, and I'm sure the club chairmen took it as such.

You ask a lot of questions, why not try to give an answer to some of these points :

 

 

Maxwell SFA and Dungcaster SPFL write to UEFA saying Scottish season is ending 6 days BEFORE a vote is even announced.

 

The lie of only one viable option to end season 

 

TV money and prize money can only be issued with an end of season
 

Cormack changes Aberdeen vote from no to yes after Dungcaster telling him the resolution has failed.

 

Good Friday 16:48 Dundee email vote

 

Nelms and Dungcaster phone calls Friday afternoon and evening 

 

Nelms negotiations with Partick and Stranraer to take prize money from Dundee Utd and Raith Rovers to ‘accept’ relegation 

 

Nelms arranging ‘big name’ friendlies

 

and that is only some of the recent shenanigans 

[Debut 4]

1 hour ago, upgotheheads said:

 

Dear Dundee United, 

 

If you had voted for a 14 team league, from which there were no losers and only winners, then we wouldn't have been in this position.

 

Regards etc.

I gave up after a couple of paragraphs.  
 

Let’s just get this done. Get into the lot of them. Clubs hiding behind a flawed, underhand, voting process and using it to take some kind of moral high ground?  
 

There needs to be good ethics and morals before you get to a piece of paper and a vote.  Actions talk louder than words , or in this case, a voting slip.  
 

You can’t hide the actions of self interested clubs behind an X on a ballot paper. Certainly not Dundee United’s.  

[Hagar the Horrible]

2 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/notice-of-referral-to-arbitration/?rid=14258

"The Scottish FA has received a notice of referral to arbitration in respect of the dispute between Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle, and the respondents named as the Scottish Professional Football League, Dundee United, Cove Rangers, Raith Rovers and Stranraer."

 

 

 

When did Stranraer get involved?

 

 

Because if we win then by default they win, they are affected just as DU, RR and CV,  only in  reverse, they just could not pay the legal fees? but we are talking it on for them? your welcome!  Interesting to see if DU go it alone?  their case is falling appart?   We have called all their bluffs now!  War has been declared!

[Riccarton3]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Dundee United, Raith and Cove thought they could get the case dismissed.

 

I asked why. Because it's clear there is a case to answer 

Yeah,I get what they tried  to do.

 

Maybe talking at cross purposes. I was dubious over Hearts approach until I realized there is no real route after arbitration and we would have no court order for docs to be presented had we not gone straight to the CoS. We would have been blocked by the SPFL's confidentiality covers all reasons.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Riccarton3

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

it is also possible to award titles but have no promotions

 

Yep, that's up to the SPFL. Reconstruction solves that, which is why we proposed it. All that work Budge did. That was partly for D Utd, Cove and Raith, plus Falkirk, Caley, the lowland/highland league teams...

Edited July 6, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Guess The Crowd]

1 hour ago, jamboinglasgow said:

If only there was a way that would keep Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers and not demote Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer. And it could even bring a lowland and highland league club up to fix the play-off problem.

 

But I guess there isn't a solution and surely if there was one United, Raith and Cove Rangers would have not voted against it....

 

Did Cove definitely vote against that? I thought I read somewhere that they had been supportive, and acknowledged that they themselves had come through the pyramid system? 

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/notice-of-referral-to-arbitration/?rid=14258

"The Scottish FA has received a notice of referral to arbitration in respect of the dispute between Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle, and the respondents named as the Scottish Professional Football League, Dundee United, Cove Rangers, Raith Rovers and Stranraer."

 

 

 

When did Stranraer get involved?

 

 

 

Our petition put Stranraer as a respondent. Because they would be affected by relegation being stopped.

[The Wrinkly Ninja]

3 hours ago, Interested Bystander said:

3 questions from an outsider.

 

1. What rule was broken by Dundee changing their vote?

2. What was wrong if Aberdeen were told their vote didn't matter? It didn't as there would still have been the required

     Yes vote in the Premiership section had they voted No. The Dundee vote only affected the Championship section.

3. With proper training only being allowed by the Scottish Government last week, and the earliest BCD games can start is

     August 1st, and with barely enough free dates available for the fixtures, when could the 19/10 season have been played 

     to a finish?

4. Does anybody think Leslie Deans open letter threatening bankruptcy to the other SPFL clubs 2 days before the 14-10-10-10

     vote helped your cause? 

 

Thats four questions you imbecile!

 

Are you a vote counter for the SPFL by any chance?

 

Interested in your own agenda you lowlife.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

it is also possible to award titles but have no promotions

 

By the way an often overlooked point is that before the vote John Nelms was quoted as suggesting this.

[Riccarton3]

7 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/notice-of-referral-to-arbitration/?rid=14258

"The Scottish FA has received a notice of referral to arbitration in respect of the dispute between Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle, and the respondents named as the Scottish Professional Football League, Dundee United, Cove Rangers, Raith Rovers and Stranraer."

 

 

 

When did Stranraer get involved?

 

 

Welcome The Toon!

[highlandjambo3]

58 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Would there be value in a statement from Hearts to clarify their position via a vis the SPFL and the 3 clubs? Hearts do not want to damage these clubs but the original sin was that of the SPFL Board.

 

The narrative being played out is now make it a club v club war. And that suits the Board. 'The more clubs against Hearts and Thistle the better'. 

I’m sure there is a previous statement from AB not that long ago mentioning it was not our intention to aim to get the 3 teams brought  relegated.  However, that narrative has been completely ignored by weegia / all other clubs / officials etc.....I think keeping quiet is our best bet otherwise we would be issuing statements all over the place after every arse wipe makes a comment.  If you say nothing then weegia needs to make it up.

[Ethan Hunt]

That Dundee United statement defies belief. Remind me how they voted despite Partick Thistle’s do no harm statement the day before the reconstruction vote. There’s some amount of hypocrisy knocking about in Dundee.

[Kidd’s Boots]

1 hour ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

It was their bleeding QC who dragged it on for 3 days from 2 hours, he lost your case he cost you £shtlds he will drag arbitration out for months at his pace.  It was their bleeding QC who argued on behalf of the SPFL to have arbitration, so they celebrated that, and now the party bill has arrived and the complementary bar bill has hit them when their guests have been on the Dom Perignon all night.

 

You cant complain that you got what you wanted?  The CoS would have been done and dusted if you backed off

 

And just to clarify it takes two to tango, if you accept the Championship nobody has to pay compensation, but at worst you will have to pay compensation AND your legal bill.  best of luck getting support when you need it like the vote for reconstruction that was a zero cost alternative?  You voted for this...reap what you sow

Bravo 👏 

[CJGJ]

21 minutes ago, Zico said:

Those statements
 

 

Let’s see how deep your pockets are you *****. 

Sporting integrity...what are those 2nd rate plonkers doing by mentioning integrity in regards to this case

 

Dundee United trying to tell us all about sporting integrity when they have taken advantage of a world wide virus which has killed thousands.

 

2nd rate statement from a second rate club

[Don Dan]

A wee salutary reminder to the Calpol 3

 

 

£137,985

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, brunoatemyhamster said:

" Costs are spiralling out of control" 

 

 

Im absolutely erect at the potential. 

So long as it doesn't spiral out of control. 😆

[colinmaroon]

 

I know this hurts but when looking at a 4 point difference with 8 games to go and saying it's unlikely, from our own history sad as this one is, Celtic were, I think, 6 points behind us with 8 games to go in 1986.

 

So, let's hear another word from the drivel merchants about a 4 point deficit.

[Mikey1874]

The gift that keeps on giving.

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

37 minutes ago, jambogemz said:

You've based your ramblings on the ramblings of a couple of hundred anonymous internet posters. 

 

A law lord thinks there is a case to answer. The End. 

No, he knows there is a case to answer. The case might find that Hearts and Partick's petition fails, but Lord Clark is definitely of the opinion that the petition has merit and must be heard, by a football tribunal if not the CoS.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

47 minutes ago, Clark Griswold said:

No Raith statement yet as they need to change their ‘winning League 1 by a considerable margin’ para 

It would be amusing if they pulled out leaving Dundee Utd and Cove with any future legal costs

[heatonjambo]

Guys

 

slowly but surely justice is happening.

 

Just as  Lord Clark  Created the environment for.

 

the long cabal OF THE SPFL is starting its death by a thousand cuts

 

enjoy the role of the righteous 

[Saul Goodman]

https://www.raithrovers.net/44373/club-statement-6.htm
 

having won league one... 😂
 

they have also put in bold the begging bowl statement 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Saul Goodman

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, Nelly Terraces said:

Essentially - the legal action that HMFC & PTFC have taken, and that Lord Clark has adjudged to have enough merit, whilst dismissing that put forward by DUFC etc, to put to arbritration is bad as it financially stiffs them, but the compromised process that financially cripples both HMFC & PTFC is all tickety boo.

 

Cool story DUFC. Twats. 

 

 

 

 

[coatbridgejambo]

26 minutes ago, David Black said:

The problem most clubs have is that they are to thick to see it. It is mindboggling how stupid some club owners are.

To stupid or cant see it through their hatred for hearts 

Probably both tbh.

[queensferryjambo]

See when the SPFL asked for all the other league clubs to pile on and give Hearts & Partick a kick in at the court. This is exactly the reason why nobody took Doncaster up on his kind offer as it might cost them big bucks.

 

Now Dundee Utd, Raith and Cove asking the rest of the SPFL clubs to take the same risk again - the risk not one of them took up for the court case.

 

They have made their beds now they can lie in them.

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

https://www.raithrovers.net/44373/club-statement-6.htm
 

having won league one... 😂

Awesome, a crowdfunding page. Will be able to keep up with how pathetic the donations are

 

[Hagar the Horrible]

2 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

https://www.raithrovers.net/44373/club-statement-6.htm
 

having won league one... 😂

Did it really take over an hour to alter having won league 1, and remove the by a considerable margin?

 

Last chance saloon, The hare is running and they are not even in the traps yet?

[Diadora Van Basten]

2 hours ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/news/6503/CLUB-STATEMENT.html?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=dundeeunitedfc
 

On the day that the SPFL have released the Premiership fixture list for 2020/21, which is scheduled to start on 1st August, instead of looking forward and planning for the forthcoming season, the executive team and Board at the Club are embroiled in preparation work for the SFA arbitration process that starts this week in respect of the action raised by Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle.

As confirmed in our joint statement on Friday, we, along with Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers, were pleased with Lord Clark’s decision to refer the dispute to arbitration,  however we remain incensed that we are having to devote considerable time and incur significant legal costs in defending this action. Together we have already incurred costs of over £50,000, and face further legal fees for the arbitration process that could take the total bill to over £150,000. 

Given the serious financial implications of these escalating legal costs for Raith Rovers, Cove Rangers and ourselves, the three clubs have considered withdrawing from the arbitration process and allowing the expert panel of arbiters to judge the case raised by Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle without any submissions from us in defence of our case. However, we believe (and our external legal advisors have confirmed same) that there is too much at stake to not defend our position against the Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle petition, which is seeking to reverse a decision that was made by 81% of the SPFL member clubs.

If successful in their action, in our opinion Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle would compromise the sporting integrity of the SPFL with clubs having been declared champions of their league not being promoted. Having won the Championship by a considerable margin, and invested substantial sums of money in preparing for next season in the Premiership, a decision to overturn the SPFL resolution that was supported by 34 of the 42 member clubs would be ruinous for us and our fans.

Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle could also be awarded significant sums in terms of compensation. Their compensation claim is for a total of £10 million. For the SPFL and its member clubs this would have potentially catastrophic consequences, with any compensation payment made to Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle being paid directly out of SPFL funds that are distributed to all clubs each season as prize money.

It is with these factors in mind, that, along with Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers, we are reaching out to our fellow member clubs for support in defending this action, which has not only potentially grave consequences for us, but every SPFL club. We also intend running a crowdfunding campaign to raise money to help fund the huge legal bills that we face. We hope that as well as our own supporters, fans of clubs across Scotland will see this as a worthy cause to get behind in that if Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle are successful in their action it could have serious ramifications for the whole of Scottish football.

They didn’t want arbitration they wanted the case thrown out. They lost and that’s why they incurred legal fees.

 

The 81% is a nonsense clubs were voting to receive end of season payments. It is to tremendous credit that Inverness voted no as they thought it was unfair when a yes vote meant they would receive £200k within a week. Clubs were told that if they voted no they would have to wait until September for their money at a time when they had no income and had to continue paying wages and overheads.

 

Dundee United May have won the Championship by a significant margin but Hearts and Partick were not relegated by a significant margin and you rejected a do no harm option which would have seen you promoted and Hearts and Partick not relegated. 
 

The claim of £10 million is to cover the teams losses and is catastrophic for 2 teams to pay rather than 42 teams. 
 

Finally the dispute is between the SpFl and Hearts and Partick Thistle you are an irrelevant sideshow.

[Psychedelicropcircle]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Awesome, a crowdfunding page. Will be able to keep up with how pathetic the donations are

 

Do they accept the maroon pound🤪

[Italian Lambretta]

10 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

A wee salutary reminder to the Calpol 3

 

 

£137,985

Actually that looks like a nice figure to offer for Lawrance Shankland. 

After all we really do need to do our bit to help our fellow clubs in their hour of need.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

10 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

I know this hurts but when looking at a 4 point difference with 8 games to go and saying it's unlikely, from our own history sad as this one is, Celtic were, I think, 6 points behind us with 8 games to go in 1986.

 

So, let's hear another word from the drivel merchants about a 4 point deficit.

and it was only two points for a win back then.

 

[MCW1976]

Hearts Fans

Gorgie Road

Edinburgh

EH11

Dundee Hibernian

Tannadice Street

Dundee

DD3

 

Dear Dundee United

 

We don't believe in long goodbyes. Therefore - and to spare you any further pain - we'd like to part in solidarity with you. That is to say:

 

Thanks for our reinstatement.

Thanks for your manager.

Thanks for the memories.

 

Lots of love and kisses.

 

The Heart of Midlothian Football Club.

 

Message ends.

 

 

[manaliveits105]

from the Raith statement -

It is with these factors in mind, that, along with Dundee United and Cove Rangers, we are reaching out to our fellow member clubs for support in defending this action, which has not only potentially grave consequences for us, but every SPFL club. We also intend running a joint crowdfunding campaign to raise money to help fund the huge legal bills that we face. We hope that as well as our own supporters, fans of clubs across Scotland will see this as a worthy cause to get behind – If we are unsuccessful in defending the legal action it could have serious ramifications for the whole of Scottish football.

 

(instead of just Hearts .Partick and Stranraer who we all agreed should be sacrificed as the patsies for the greater good)

 

You feckin snakes - hope Rovers are deid soon.

[queensferryjambo]

1 minute ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

They didn’t want arbitration they wanted the case thrown out. They lost and that’s why they incurred legal fees.

 

The 81% is a nonsense clubs were voting to receive end of season payments. It is to tremendous credit that Inverness voted no as they thought it was unfair when a yes vote meant they would receive £200k within a week. Clubs were told that if they voted no they would have to wait until September for their money at a time when they had no income and had to continue paying wages and overheads.

 

Dundee United May have won the Championship by a significant margin but Hearts and Partick were not relegated by a significant margin and you rejected a do no harm option which would have seen you promoted and Hearts and Partick not relegated. 
 

The claim of £10 million is to cover the teams losses and is catastrophic for 2 teams to pay rather than 42 teams. 
 

Finally the dispute is between the SpFl and Hearts and Partick Thistle you are an irrelevant sideshow.

 

 

They talk about integrity all those clubs voted for the SPFL motion fully knowing it would relegate 3 clubs unfairly just because they wanted their cash.

 

The clubs had a gun to their heads no integrity was in the equation. 

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

So basically Scottish football social media is now Hearts and PT fans throwing back exactly the same "salty tears" and other gifs and statements like "take your medicine" back in the faces of fans of other clubs that have been throwing them at us the last couple of months. And those other fans are complaining about this?

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

44 minutes ago, Anything2 said:

Thing is, it should always have been DU, RR, and CR taking the court action. The other clubs should never have been demoted and therefore any reconstruction talks should have been to include those three out of good will. Raith in particular haven’t a leg to stand on. 

I have been saying for some time now that Dundee Utd etc had no right to a position in a higher league to lose, and therefor would have had no case to take to court had the SPFL just decided to do away with promotion. On the other hand, Hearts and Partick only have a case, that Lord Clark deemed must be answered, because they had an undeniable right to their place in the leagues they had participated in throughout the season, and that right remained until the rules were changed by a vote carried out in very questionable circumstances.

[Nookie Bear]

Cheeky wee bid for Shankland? Maybe £250k would help out our fellow Scottish team. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

20 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

I know this hurts but when looking at a 4 point difference with 8 games to go and saying it's unlikely, from our own history sad as this one is, Celtic were, I think, 6 points behind us with 8 games to go in 1986.

 

So, let's hear another word from the drivel merchants about a 4 point deficit.

 

 

You can find a club that has been 4 points behind or more and has made it up in 8 games every single bloody season in every league. St Johnstone had a dramatic turnaround this season in that many games. Christ we did in reverse in 2018/19. Hibs slid to the bottom in rapid style in 2013/14. Aberdeen started really badly a season or two ago. Football is all about fluctuating form over a season.

 

It's always been a nonsense. Like everyone decided to forget how football works.

Edited July 6, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

Raith fans thinking they can make it through this crisis 

 

 

700 shirts sold!! 

 

 

Might be worth buying as a collectors item when they've gone breests up.

[Boof]

44 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Nice essay. Shame you wasted your time. Two words:

 

Werder. Bremen.

 

Four points behind when football stopped. Worst team in the league at that time. Football restarted and they escaped automatic relegation. Just as we could have.

 

Football is all about last minute escapes and title and relegation battles. Should we just end the league after 30 games now because the team bottom at that time has no chance of escaping it (according to Pie and Bovril and social media)? Why bother playing on?

 

PS: What about Partick Thistle?

 

Can't be ersed to quote the erse in question but Hearts were certainly NOT the worst team in the league. They may have been in last place in the top division of the league, but Brechin City who, incidentally, have a representative on the SPFL board were by far the worst team in the league.

[indianajones]

I have no idea WTF is going on with this case anymore. 

[Hagar the Horrible]

Would Dundee United not be better keeping what little money they have, Move on, Take their medicine and suck it up, and use that money to take the SPFL to court for compensation

 

You are in a fight and your pals have shouted fight fight fight, and when the Heedie appears they have all ran away leaving you with the damage for the broken windaes

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

700 shirts. What’s that, like £20k after tax?

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Boof said:

 

Can't be ersed to quote the erse in question but Hearts were certainly NOT the worst team in the league. They may have been in last place in the top division of the league, but Brechin City who, incidentally, have a representative on the SPFL board were by far the worst team in the league.

 

Yeah, we weren't even the worse in the Premiership. St Johnstone were a the bottom of the table longer than we were. We just happened to be bottom when football was a stopped. A week or two earlier and it would have been Hamilton. in fact, Hamilton were still the bookies' favourites to go down.