SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 minutes ago, Billybuffjaw said:

Don't let the fact he's right get in the way of a good argument. We would have done the same GUARANTEED.

So you are calling Ann Budge a liar? She's on record as saying she would have actively supported reconstruction.

[DETTY29]

13 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

 

I haven't fully understood it. It wasn't entirely clear why Dundee United / Raith / Cove defended the action. Surely as members of the SPFL and promoted by the SPFL resolution they could have trusted and relied on the SPFL defence. 

 

Which is actually what happened. 

 

But I do think the SPFL used Boreland's defence as their own. A sign of their own lack of confidence perhaps. 

My view is likely wrong but perhaps they thought 2 big hitting QCs are better then one and Lord Clark could be bullied.

 

And from my listening in, LC was not impressed by either's tone.

[Boof]

4 minutes ago, Billybuffjaw said:

Don't let the fact he's right get in the way of a good argument. We would have done the same GUARANTEED.

 

I don't believe it.

[Diadora Van Basten]

11 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

Just gone over the ND interview, shame it was not Marr, or Paxman.  But the blatant lie in the interview was over 80% of clubs voted to end it this way,  sorry but your own QC stated in court that Dundee voted NO,  The smirk on his face when asked is his position untenable if we win, he had that look as if to say, I am backed up by very powerfull people!  Its going to be a bigger pleasure to wipe that off his face.  Its not anybodies fault, then why are thet tring to paint it that it is our fault, leckie has blamed us, for SARS, COVID, JFK everything?

He likes to throw in a whopper of a lie in his interview “All 12 clubs accepted that the league could not be played out” its a bit like when he claimed that all four teams agreed to play two games a day at Hampden only for Hearts to come out and say it’s the most ridiculous thing we have ever heard off.

 

Nice of him to mention 80% knowing he Unduly influenced both the Aberdeen and Dundee votes. 

[ericb]

7 minutes ago, Boof said:

From that creep Leckie's drivel...

 

"And, for the umpteenth time, let me also say without fear of contradiction that, if they’d come off the bottom by winning at Paisley in the last, pivotal match before the shutters came down, we’d never have heard a peep from them."

 

 

Don't judge others by your own moral compass you odious little turd.

Also factually incorrect, we were not excluded because we were bottom, we were excluded based on points per game, had we beaten St Mirren, we would both have 26 points from 30 games, we would been above on goal difference. In that case, I assume they would have excluded St Mirren based on goal difference, and I'd imagine St Mirren would just taken that on the chin right?

[SectionDJambo]

1 minute ago, Billybuffjaw said:

Don't let the fact he's right get in the way of a good argument. We would have done the same GUARANTEED.

Ann Budge has said she would have supported whoever was in 12th position, against demotion, on the grounds that no club should be harmed under such circumstances. We wouldn't have driven the narrative, but we would have supported it. 

I, for one, believe her, because she has more integrity that any other owner in the Premiership. The rest are too busy trying not to upset the main power behind the SPFL board.

[Ethan Hunt]

1 hour ago, rmreido said:

Are you Bill's lackie, 

or Bill Leckie?

GTF

I’ve read it a few times now. It’s very much the Kenny McIntyre argument of Hearts were pish, deserved to go down, it’s their own fault, look at the harm they are doing to other clubs, it’s not the other clubs faults.

 

I wonder if the OP have posted a similar post on the Partick Thistle and Stranraer fans forums? Although given the amount of research carried out it seems their ire/fixation is directed solely at Hearts.

[heartsfc_fan]

5 minutes ago, ollie2004 said:

Fixture list released! No HMFC, SPFL must feel confident they will win our case or that we give up.

Would be a shock to them if they need to review fixtures.

If they have any sense there will be these options they will have as backup:

 

1) 12 team top league with Hearts replacing Dundee Utd

 

2) A 13 team top league with Hearts coming in

 

3) A 14 team top league with Hearts and Inverness coming in.

[SectionDJambo]

Just now, Ethan Hunt said:

I’ve read it a few times now. It’s very much the Kenny McIntyre argument of Hearts were pish, deserved to go down, it’s their own fault, look at the harm they are doing to other clubs, it’s not the other clubs faults.

 

I wonder if the OP have posted a similar post on the Partick Thistle and Stranraer fans forums? Although given the amount of research carried out it seems their ire/fixation is directed solely at Hearts.

Their focus has always been on hurting Hearts. The others clubs affected are acceptable collateral damage for the nitwits.

[John Findlay]

Apart from DU, RR, and CR. Did any other clubs take up Neil Doncaster's invitation to join them in fighting our's and Partick's petition?

No I didnt think so.

[Dallas Green]

7 minutes ago, Billybuffjaw said:

Don't let the fact he's right get in the way of a good argument. We would have done the same GUARANTEED.

 

Does typing the word in caps make you feel like you are talking less shit?

 

Ann has said the opposite of what you have just guaranteed.

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, ollie2004 said:

Fixture list released! No HMFC, SPFL must feel confident they will win our case or that we give up.

Would be a shock to them if they need to review fixtures.

Especially with Dundee Utd raking our usual starting home game against St Johnstone, what’s a strange is that Hibs are also at home that day. They started last season at home so were due an away game.

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

The only good thing about that post from firsttimecaller is that he must have spent a very long time putting together something that tells nobody anything new, or even interesting, and is clearly an almighty failure in terms of whatever it was he was trying to establish. In fact, for something that appears to have had a lot of thought put into it in an effort to legitimise Heart's 'relegation', it fails spectacularly in a way that helps show that there is no legitimate grounds for said 'relegation'. I mean, he writes a lot of words suggesting Hearts deserve to be relegated because, amongst other things, JKB is full of quite nasty posters, something he must believe is missing from whatever (Hibs?) club's supporters' forum he normally frequents.

 

Worth noting that in such a long diatribe he completely fails to provide anything that supports the action of the SPFL in both the aim and/or the method of relegating Hearts, Partick and Stranraer. In fact, he concentrates solely on the Hearts 'relegation' and how they 'deserve' it, proving more about his own biased perspective than it does about whatever it was he was actually trying to add to the debate. 

 

One to ignore other than as a nice distraction on a Monday morning.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, SectionDJambo said:

Their focus has always been on hurting Hearts. The others clubs affected are acceptable collateral damage for the nitwits.

Quite. And as for that pish about celebrating admin events, we know a financial event hitting us now would be CELEBRATED by fans of other clubs. Feck them all! The more damage we do the better.

[Beast Boy]

58 minutes ago, EarnockJambo said:

Both St Mirren fans too.... interesting.

Basically just parroting their shite from Twitter/P&B. 

[Billybuffjaw]

4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

So you are calling Ann Budge a liar? She's on record as saying she would have actively supported reconstruction.

She's also on record as saying there are far too many clubs in Scotland. I'm playing Devils advocate btw and I don't think there's a Hearts fan out there who genuinely believes Budge would have voted for recon if we weren't bottom.

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, heartsfc_fan said:

If they have any sense there will be these options they will have as backup:

 

1) 12 team top league with Hearts replacing Dundee Utd

 

2) A 13 team top league with Hearts coming in

 

3) A 14 team top league with Hearts and Inverness coming in.

None of that will have happened then. 

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, ollie2004 said:

Fixture list released! No HMFC, SPFL must feel confident they will win our case or that we give up.

Would be a shock to them if they need to review fixtures.

 

Hibs, Dundee United not completely separated. 

 

5 weekend and 1 midweek at home same time. 

 

But fixable with fixtures moved slightly. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, Billybuffjaw said:

She's also on record as saying there are far too many clubs in Scotland. I'm playing Devils advocate btw and I don't think there's a Hearts fan out there who genuinely believes Budge would have voted for recon if we weren't bottom.

You make it sound as if none of the other clubs in the top flight voted for reconstruction. That is factually pish.

[Don Dan]

4 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Although given the amount of research carried out it seems their ire/fixation is directed solely at Hearts.

To me the said poster has been tasked to do that work. No random would put in such diligent research and effort in writing that attempt at condemnation. 
 

[manaliveits105]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Especially with Dundee Utd raking our usual starting home game against St Johnstone, what’s a strange is that Hibs are also at home that day. They started last season at home so were due an away game.

They are still at it - but none of our intrepid journalists will question it and hubz will think it harms us so suck it up like their £140k loss

[DETTY29]

4 minutes ago, Billybuffjaw said:

She's also on record as saying there are far too many clubs in Scotland. I'm playing Devils advocate btw and I don't think there's a Hearts fan out there who genuinely believes Budge would have voted for recon if we weren't bottom.

She is on record of saying that due to the circumstances she would have been in support for a 'no harm' basis solution and that that approach should have been led by the SPFL leadership.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by DETTY29

[PTBCAL]

Does anyone still believe we will

be reinstated. We are in the championship and hopefully with a few quid compensation in our pocket. 
 

As a club this needs to be resolved soon as ultimately there will be some big decisions to make on and off the pitch 

[John Findlay]

4 minutes ago, Billybuffjaw said:

She's also on record as saying there are far too many clubs in Scotland. I'm playing Devils advocate btw and I don't think there's a Hearts fan out there who genuinely believes Budge would have voted for recon if we weren't bottom.

You really are a sandwich short of a picnic.

[Bozi]

2 hours ago, BelgeJambo said:

 

This needs to be splattered over all sort of social media

44...44? Even his waistline wishes it was still only 44 

[Billybuffjaw]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

You make it sound as if none of the other clubs in the top flight voted for reconstruction. That is factually pish.

Listen, I'm as disappointed they didn't vote for recon as the next man, but to say Ann would have voted for recon to save the likes of a a Hamilton or a Ross County from relegation is just laughable.

[manaliveits105]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

You really are a sandwich short of a picnic.

most of them are - 2012 smashed them

[cosanostra]

1 hour ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Excellent post. 

 

No, it's not.

He could have said "you were the worst team so even though you didn't finish last, you deserve to go down" and saved us about 10 minutes of obviousness that pretty much no-one disagrees with.

We were the worst team but we didn't finish last and were relegated by vote and that is scandalously unfair. Especially when the English league is currently being played to a fair conclusion. Why was ours not treated the same?

His post was basic, obvious, drawn out and completely pointless.

We know why and who caused us to be in the position we are in - Levein and Budge.

We know who decided to remove us from the league despite not finishing last. What more is there to say? We deserved a chance to fight for our place and that was voted away from us. 

Well **** that. That is not sporting and is completely farcical.

[Hagar the Horrible]

I find it totally abhorrent that the Calpol 3 have asked other cash strapped clubs to finance their defence, And worse they are asking fans of other clubs to donate money they don’t have to fund it as well?  People are on furlough, when that’s done a sizeable number of those are facing redundancy, we are all hit in the pocket, the cost of doing business has gone up, but to openly beg for money is disgusting beyond the realms of decency.  They should be ashamed, the media should be all over this, That is the only affair one would expect the kind of thing that NOSHAME FC would do?

 

They have to be self-aware that they lost their case in a court of law!  They had to pay for that futile exercise.  The SPFL also lost the case to get it halted; in Criminal Law terms the PF has agreed there is enough evidence to warrant a case, the defendant has the right to plead not guilty?  But here we are going from a standing point as the CoS has presumed them guilty and they have to prove their innocence, not the other way around!

[1953]

I've just read that Bill Leckie piece and seriously, it could have been written by one of the bitter and misinformed over on Hibs.net. This guy's meant to be a proper journalist ffs. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Billybuffjaw said:

Listen, I'm as disappointed they didn't vote for recon as the next man, but to say Ann would have voted for recon to save the likes of a a Hamilton or a Ross County from relegation is just laughable.

So why did Livingston vote for reconstruction?

[Ethan Hunt]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

To me the said poster has been tasked to do that work. No random would put in such diligent research and effort in writing that attempt at condemnation. 
 

Or paid to do it. There are two BBC people who immediately sprung to mind when I read the post. Both have been very vocal with more or less the same argument and anti Hearts agenda. 

[colinmaroon]

8 minutes ago, Billybuffjaw said:

She's also on record as saying there are far too many clubs in Scotland. I'm playing Devils advocate btw and I don't think there's a Hearts fan out there who genuinely believes Budge would have voted for recon if we weren't bottom.

 

Here's one!

 

 

[Billybuffjaw]

3 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

You really are a sandwich short of a picnic.

Ouch, I need to go lie down after that intelligent retort.

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

16 minutes ago, Billybuffjaw said:

Don't let the fact he's right get in the way of a good argument. We would have done the same GUARANTEED.

You going to back that GUARANTEE with some sort of justification for your words, or are you just going to leave it there like some stupid wee laddie?

[Anything2]

9 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Ann Budge has said she would have supported whoever was in 12th position, against demotion, on the grounds that no club should be harmed under such circumstances. We wouldn't have driven the narrative, but we would have supported it. 

I, for one, believe her, because she has more integrity that any other owner in the Premiership. The rest are too busy trying not to upset the main power behind the SPFL board.

I agree, I think even if it was Hibs she would have engaged positively in the discussions and shown support for their position. It just wouldn't have been her leading. The fact that everyone agrees that the bottom team would always feel aggrieved suggests that it was the wrong decision. 

[Billybuffjaw]

1 minute ago, cosanostra said:

 

No, it's not.

He could have said "you were the worst team so even though you didn't finish last, you deserve to go down" and saved us about 10 minutes of obviousness that pretty much no-one disagrees with.

We were the worst team but we didn't finish last and we relegation by vote is scandalously unfair. Especially when the English league is currently being played to a fair conclusion. Why was ours not treated the same?

His post was basic, obvious, drawn out and completely pointless.

We know why and who caused us to be in the position we are in - Levein and Budge.

We know who decided to remove us from the league despite not finishing last. What more is there to say? We deserved a chance to fight for our place and that was voted away from us. 

Well **** that. That is not sporting and is completely farcical.

I agree we deserved our chance to save ourselves on the field of play, can you tell me how that was in any way possible?

[1953]

8 minutes ago, Billybuffjaw said:

She's also on record as saying there are far too many clubs in Scotland. I'm playing Devils advocate btw and I don't think there's a Hearts fan out there who genuinely believes Budge would have voted for recon if we weren't bottom.

Absolutely she would have voted for reconstruction so nobody gets unnecessarily hurt, she might not have been driving it from the front but she would have voted for it. 

[neilnunb]

3 hours ago, neilnunb said:

 

🤣🤣🤣🤣  

 

[TheBigO]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

Ha ha

[Boof]

10 minutes ago, Billybuffjaw said:

She's also on record as saying there are far too many clubs in Scotland. I'm playing Devils advocate btw and I don't think there's a Hearts fan out there who genuinely believes Budge would have voted for recon if we weren't bottom.

 

Neatly summarised for you.

 

It's in red and bold, in case you have difficulty finding it.

[Beast Boy]

9 minutes ago, Billybuffjaw said:

She's also on record as saying there are far too many clubs in Scotland. I'm playing Devils advocate btw and I don't think there's a Hearts fan out there who genuinely believes Budge would have voted for recon if we weren't bottom.

No, she’s on record as saying there are too many senior clubs in Scotland’s professional set up. She doesn’t want to get rid of clubs, she just commented that the senior set up has too many clubs in it. This is true, it does. The needs of the majority of clubs in the senior set up are very different to the truly full time professional clubs. Most are part time. Nobody wants to get rid of these clubs, they just want all clubs to play and compete at a level that best suits their resources and needs.

[cosanostra]

Just now, Billybuffjaw said:

I agree we deserved our chance to save ourselves on the field of play, can you tell me how that was in any way possible?

 

What's wrong with doing what the English PL have done?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Or paid to do it. There are two BBC people who immediately sprung to mind when I read the post. Both have been very vocal with more or less the same argument and anti Hearts agenda. 

I'm flattered they spent so much time researching Kickback. It's also quite tragic.

[Diadora Van Basten]

7 minutes ago, PTBCAL said:

Does anyone still believe we will

be reinstated. We are in the championship and hopefully with a few quid compensation in our pocket. 
 

As a club this needs to be resolved soon as ultimately there will be some big decisions to make on and off the pitch 

I do we win the arguments at arbitration then they have choice:

 

Amend the league or pay £10 million 

 

I think they will amend the league 

[Victorian]

7 minutes ago, PTBCAL said:

Does anyone still believe we will

be reinstated. We are in the championship and hopefully with a few quid compensation in our pocket. 
 

As a club this needs to be resolved soon as ultimately there will be some big decisions to make on and off the pitch 

 

No.   As a club this needs to be resolved per the correct timetable and details of the process,   with the aim of achieving justice and/or the best outcome.    

[Hagar the Horrible]

1 minute ago, 1953 said:

Absolutely she would have voted for reconstruction so nobody gets unnecessarily hurt, she might not have been driving it from the front but she would have voted for it. 

What we know for a fact is DU and RR had some good fortune, and they had the chance to show humility and empathy, instead they chose to rub our noses in it,  I would not have been comfortable if our club did the same.

[Anything2]

5 minutes ago, Billybuffjaw said:

Listen, I'm as disappointed they didn't vote for recon as the next man, but to say Ann would have voted for recon to save the likes of a a Hamilton or a Ross County from relegation is just laughable.

So most teams voted for their own interests but ICT spoke out in support of Partick going down. What makes it laughable that Hearts would do the same for Hamilton etc?

[Sooperstar]

I bowed out of the thread after the judge announced the result on Friday. Reading over the last few pages there seems to be a renewed sense of optimism about arbitration. Why? From my own view I just can't see that we will get a fair result from it. Doubt we will get a result materially in our favour.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

I do we win the arguments at arbitration then they have choice:

 

Amend the league or pay £10 million 

 

I think they will amend the league 

I'm on this train.

 

The winning is the hard part.