SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Cruickie's Moustache]

Regards the issue of the lower divisions and associated clubs.

 

It is clear that they have a role within Scottish Football but it certainly isn't related to them helping produce top flight professional players for our clubs to succeed in Europe and add strength to the national team.

 

When you look at the playing staffs at a lot of these teams they cater for a lot of lads who didn't make the grade with bigger clubs and have dropped down to find their level or guys who have never been capable to playing at the higher level, for whatever reason.

 

The numbers of players moving up to the top level, like Andrew Robertson, are few and far between. 

 

The lower divisions  give guys a chance to play the game they love, at a reasonably high standard and with a bit of cash, but that's about it.

 

Why they still have a say in a professional game that is getting left behind, year after year by other countries is just madness.

 

While the idea of pyramid systems is a fine in principle we know that football no longer works in that way.

 

Uefa have totally done away with the overarching principle by the way they operate the Champions League and the likes.

 

We should feel no shame in changing to a system where the professional league is accessed only by full time teams with decent fans bases and stadiums.

 

Even if you had a system for relegation from top professional divisions you can, like in previous SPL seasons and English Rugby, have a minimum criteria so that if you don't meet them you don't get promoted.

 

[Gordon Ramsay]

1 minute ago, queensferryjambo said:

 

 

The most baffling thing in your post isn't your opinions it is your motivation to post it here.

 

You clearly aren't a Hearts supporter as there are too many things in your post that are giveaways.

 

What do you think your post will achieve? 

 

The only thing I can see it achieving is making this thread loads more pages long when people quote you.......................

 

Nice try but must do better...................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All these posts do is push Hearts fans closer together which gains more revenue for the club. 

 

Evidenced by FOH subscriptions. 

 

Moronic posts like that actually benefit the club. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

 

Thanks for sharing but no one cares.

[Benny Factor]

2 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

 

Sure you do, FTC, sure you do.

[RENE]

Has anyone done a comparison between how much it would have cost to play remaining games BCD and how much the SPFL had to pay back the TV companies for ending season early?

[Bull's-eye]

4 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

 

 

Ffs.

 

[1953]

54 minutes ago, redalir said:

I have heard/read a number of people saying we wouldn't make up 4 points.

 

Just as a reminder in season 2013/2014.  After 30 games Hearts had scored less points  than they had this year 21 (-15). 

 

The league over the last 8 games would be

Pos.		P	Pts
1	Celtic	8	18
2	Heart of Midlothian	8	17
3	Motherwell	8	13
4	St. Johnstone	8	12
5	St. Mirren	8	12
6	Ross County	8	11
7	Aberdeen	8	10
8	Inverness CT	8	9
9	Kilmarnock	8	9
10	Dundee United	8	8
11	Partick Thistle	8	6
12	Hibernian	8	1

 

Without the points deduction we would not have been automatically relegated. We all know what did happen. Hibs were 13 points (excluding the -15) ahead of us at the 30 game mark.

 

So while we were the worst team in the league up to the 30 games, we were not the worst team over the last 8 games. 

 

Who can say something similar would not have happened this year,

Exactly, we all know how crap we were in the 30 games played but nobody can say what would have happened in the last 8, personally I think it would have gone down to the wire and I would have been delighted if the games could have been played like they're doing in England but that option was never explored. If we were bottom after that there wouldn't have been an argument from anyone.

[EIEIO]

4 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

 

The SPFL Board are to blame full stop.

[martoon]

8 minutes ago, Col said:

They only had the decision a couple of weeks ago, and we are told they are considering their options which may include a legal challenge. Problem is it looks like TR will be the only English club adversely affected as the top two divisions played on, and there is talk of no relegation in the division below. I suspect they will await the outcome of Hearts case before deciding whether to throw money at it

 

It has aided our fight that Partick Thistle are in the same boat. Amiens*, the French club who are also in our situation, offered their assistance and advice to Hearts after their successful court case. 

 

Pretty sure Hearts would gladly do the same if TR sought our help. 

 

Good luck with it, bud. 

 

*may not be the correct spelling

[Mikey1874]

9 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

The lack of common decency and sporting integrity throughout this has been disgraceful from start to finish. Any reasonable minded person can see that the three ‘expelled’ clubs have been greatly wronged and it was totally unnecessary from Day 1. Unfortunately, some narrow minded and spiteful individuals are now tying themselves in knots trying to justify the wrongs on any platform they can access – these people should take a step back and reassess. They are now so entrenched I fear that they’ll never be shifted from their views.

 

Key points for me:

 

·         Why was the original vote only on one option that severely punished 3 clubs due to a pandemic? No consideration of reconstruction, no promotions etc. being put to a vote. Why were these options taking off the table without a vote?

 

·         Why wasn’t the only option that never punished anyone, reconstructing to a 14-10-10-10 not put forward as the preferred option right at the start? I thought the SPFL was meant to look after ‘all’ its members.

 

·         Bullying and coercion by the SPFL is well documented by various chairmen in print and on radio over the vote – absolutely damning to be honest.

 

·         Tying that one option in with getting money? Was it really essential? If not, it was akin to blackmail.

 

·         Why the rush to push through the season ending? Totally unnecessary as has been shown by other leagues completing their seasons on the playing field. Yes, it would have cost money for testing but would have saved significantly on refunds to TV companies. We could easily have played the last 8 games as has been shown elsewhere – I bet James Anderson would have even paid for it if they had asked. As for scrapping the play-offs, which would have just been 2 extra matches to play, that was a particular low – was that anything to do with SPFL board members from Hamilton and Brechin being involved in the boards’ decision making?

 

·         Why push through with playing Scottish Cup, knowing that one club, Hearts, would be at a massive disadvantage due to being unfairly expelled, resulting in not being able to train or play matches until a lot later than the other 3 semi-finalists? If you scrap the league surely you scrap the cup? Surely it’s not just continuing so Celtic can say they won another treble?

 

·         The Dundee vote is simply so farcical that no one can stick up for that and why it was allowed to happen. They voted against the proposal and it had to stand. More apparent blackmail carried out in open sight of the whole country.

 

·         The Rangers dossier: it had to go to a vote on whether it would be investigated but the SPFL own ‘Deloittes’ investigation happened in secret without any vote? Who paid for this and why was no vote needed? The SPFL appears to make up rules to suit themselves and then ignore them when it suits their agenda.

 

·         Why did the SFA not offer arbitration in April? They only offered it, along with a threat to the 3 wronged clubs, after court proceedings had started. Surely they should have offered this early rather than sitting back and watching the SPFL deliberately run down the clock.

 

·         The media and opposition supporters have always been critical of the way the SPFL is run but suddenly they are all incredibly supportive of them. It just feels like a witch-hunt against the 3 expelled teams. I’d expect the wider football family to show empathy and the punished clubs but, unfortunately, they are using what’s happened to stick the knife in. We have all heard the phrases ‘pay-back time’ etc. from certain chairmen and it’s unsavoury to say the least. Lots of media and chairmen need to take a step back and ask themselves if they have taken the wrong side on this, and for all the wrong reasons.

 

The bottom line is that the people saying that Hearts deserved to be relegated and should take their medicine are so wrong and would be arguing the absolute opposite if this happened to their club. We were only 4 points behind with 8 games to go and things can change quickly in football. We had quite recently prior to lockdown beaten Rangers twice and Hibs at Easter Road. We were blowing hot and cold but clearly capable of lifting it for big occasions. A perfect example is Werder Bremen, who were 4 points behind safety at lockdown in Germany with less games to play than we had, but survived once it resumed. We were not even the favourites with the bookies to go down at the point the league was called. As for Partick Thistle, that is simply farcical that they were relegated when a blind man could see they were going to play themselves out of it. Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer did not deserve to be relegated. Sporting integrity was thrown out the window when this was voted through. As for the person saying that Ann Budge would not have voted for reconstruction if it never benefited Hearts – that’s really poor. I don’t know her but all evidence would clearly show that she has a very high moral code. I am sure she would always have done the right thing – in this case, that would mean voting to ensure not one single club would be punished due to a global pandemic.

 

That’s the thing with self interest though. 

 

Hearts and Partick now acting in self interest. Which of course is fair and entirely correct. 

 

But you see it has impacts. Raith Rovers. But that can happen. 

[Nookie Bear]

6 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

 

The ‘bigger picture’ is the woeful- some might say corrupt - running of the game in Scotland. 
 

Quite why a Rose fan felt compelled to post on here is anybody’s business.
 

I say you’re a journalist. 

[Gordon Ramsay]

6 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

 

 

Wait so you support Bonnyrigg Rose and don't have much of an interest in the SPFL but you write an essay on a Hearts fans forum and have clearly spent a fair amount of time researching said forum to back up your shite points? 

 

Bit of an odd one if you ask me. 

 

[DETTY29]

35 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

**** all this did/didn't deserve to go down shite - back to the legal chat...

 

When can we expect to hear on who's been chosen for the arbitration? And when do we think it will actually start??

Brian McLaughlin reckoned 10 days at most to start.

 

The SPFL/SFA need to get this started or a committed start date that would guarantee a conclusion by end July because the SPFL QC told Lord Clark that there was no reason why it wouldn't be done in the timescales Lord Clark had set aside if it was him who would preside over.

[Cisco1914]

10 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

The lack of common decency and sporting integrity throughout this has been disgraceful from start to finish. Any reasonable minded person can see that the three ‘expelled’ clubs have been greatly wronged and it was totally unnecessary from Day 1. Unfortunately, some narrow minded and spiteful individuals are now tying themselves in knots trying to justify the wrongs on any platform they can access – these people should take a step back and reassess. They are now so entrenched I fear that they’ll never be shifted from their views.

 

Key points for me:

 

·         Why was the original vote only on one option that severely punished 3 clubs due to a pandemic? No consideration of reconstruction, no promotions etc. being put to a vote. Why were these options taking off the table without a vote?

 

·         Why wasn’t the only option that never punished anyone, reconstructing to a 14-10-10-10 not put forward as the preferred option right at the start? I thought the SPFL was meant to look after ‘all’ its members.

 

·         Bullying and coercion by the SPFL is well documented by various chairmen in print and on radio over the vote – absolutely damning to be honest.

 

·         Tying that one option in with getting money? Was it really essential? If not, it was akin to blackmail.

 

·         Why the rush to push through the season ending? Totally unnecessary as has been shown by other leagues completing their seasons on the playing field. Yes, it would have cost money for testing but would have saved significantly on refunds to TV companies. We could easily have played the last 8 games as has been shown elsewhere – I bet James Anderson would have even paid for it if they had asked. As for scrapping the play-offs, which would have just been 2 extra matches to play, that was a particular low – was that anything to do with SPFL board members from Hamilton and Brechin being involved in the boards’ decision making?

 

·         Why push through with playing Scottish Cup, knowing that one club, Hearts, would be at a massive disadvantage due to being unfairly expelled, resulting in not being able to train or play matches until a lot later than the other 3 semi-finalists? If you scrap the league surely you scrap the cup? Surely it’s not just continuing so Celtic can say they won another treble?

 

·         The Dundee vote is simply so farcical that no one can stick up for that and why it was allowed to happen. They voted against the proposal and it had to stand. More apparent blackmail carried out in open sight of the whole country.

 

·         The Rangers dossier: it had to go to a vote on whether it would be investigated but the SPFL own ‘Deloittes’ investigation happened in secret without any vote? Who paid for this and why was no vote needed? The SPFL appears to make up rules to suit themselves and then ignore them when it suits their agenda.

 

·         Why did the SFA not offer arbitration in April? They only offered it, along with a threat to the 3 wronged clubs, after court proceedings had started. Surely they should have offered this early rather than sitting back and watching the SPFL deliberately run down the clock.

 

·         The media and opposition supporters have always been critical of the way the SPFL is run but suddenly they are all incredibly supportive of them. It just feels like a witch-hunt against the 3 expelled teams. I’d expect the wider football family to show empathy and the punished clubs but, unfortunately, they are using what’s happened to stick the knife in. We have all heard the phrases ‘pay-back time’ etc. from certain chairmen and it’s unsavoury to say the least. Lots of media and chairmen need to take a step back and ask themselves if they have taken the wrong side on this, and for all the wrong reasons.

 

The bottom line is that the people saying that Hearts deserved to be relegated and should take their medicine are so wrong and would be arguing the absolute opposite if this happened to their club. We were only 4 points behind with 8 games to go and things can change quickly in football. We had quite recently prior to lockdown beaten Rangers twice and Hibs at Easter Road. We were blowing hot and cold but clearly capable of lifting it for big occasions. A perfect example is Werder Bremen, who were 4 points behind safety at lockdown in Germany with less games to play than we had, but survived once it resumed. We were not even the favourites with the bookies to go down at the point the league was called. As for Partick Thistle, that is simply farcical that they were relegated when a blind man could see they were going to play themselves out of it. Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer did not deserve to be relegated. Sporting integrity was thrown out the window when this was voted through. As for the person saying that Ann Budge would not have voted for reconstruction if it never benefited Hearts – that’s really poor. I don’t know her but all evidence would clearly show that she has a very high moral code. I am sure she would always have done the right thing – in this case, that would mean voting to ensure not one single club would be punished due to a global pandemic.

Good post mate and I'm sure our QC will be asking some of the points you've highlighted.

[martoon]

1 minute ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

 

Wait so you support Bonnyrigg Rose and don't have much of an interest in the SPFL but you write an essay on a Hearts fans forum and have clearly spent a fair amount of time researching said forum to back up your shite points? 

 

Bit of an odd one if you ask me. 

 

 

Odd behaviour that just shrieks Hibs.nut.

[DETTY29]

9 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

 

Fair enough-ish.

 

Now what is your precis on what Lord Clark's initial views are on the conduct of Hearts, Partick Thistle and DU/RR/RC/SPFL and their legal representatives.

[Jambo314]

12 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 

 

 

 

[Riccarton3]

7 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

 

I don't think so. Your post is just a patchwork of deflection. There would be sporting merit in relegation after the conclusion of 38 games. What sporting merit do you follow? Tipping over the scrabble board when you're getting beat? Absolutely peurile. 

 

The game is as bent as it can be. As warped as your understanding of events. 

 

Look closer to home. Yes, you probably should.

 

 

[1953]

6 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

 

Nobody is missing the bigger picture here firsttimecaller. We all know where the blame lies regarding finding ourselves at the bottom of the league when lockdown started but none of that is in anyway relevant and has nothing to do with what's happened since. The dispute is only about the way the SPFL have handled this situation since lockdown.

[highlandjambo3]

48 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

**** all this did/didn't deserve to go down shite - back to the legal chat...

 

When can we expect to hear on who's been chosen for the arbitration? And when do we think it will actually start??

We won’t hear unless said persons agree to their nails being made public 

[Fire_At_The_Disco]

Wow just logged in for a look at lunch and the place is reeking with vermin

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

3 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

The lack of common decency and sporting integrity throughout this has been disgraceful from start to finish. Any reasonable minded person can see that the three ‘expelled’ clubs have been greatly wronged and it was totally unnecessary from Day 1. Unfortunately, some narrow minded and spiteful individuals are now tying themselves in knots trying to justify the wrongs on any platform they can access – these people should take a step back and reassess. They are now so entrenched I fear that they’ll never be shifted from their views.

 

Key points for me:

 

·         Why was the original vote only on one option that severely punished 3 clubs due to a pandemic? No consideration of reconstruction, no promotions etc. being put to a vote. Why were these options taking off the table without a vote?

 

·         Why wasn’t the only option that never punished anyone, reconstructing to a 14-10-10-10 not put forward as the preferred option right at the start? I thought the SPFL was meant to look after ‘all’ its members.

 

·         Bullying and coercion by the SPFL is well documented by various chairmen in print and on radio over the vote – absolutely damning to be honest.

 

·         Tying that one option in with getting money? Was it really essential? If not, it was akin to blackmail.

 

·         Why the rush to push through the season ending? Totally unnecessary as has been shown by other leagues completing their seasons on the playing field. Yes, it would have cost money for testing but would have saved significantly on refunds to TV companies. We could easily have played the last 8 games as has been shown elsewhere – I bet James Anderson would have even paid for it if they had asked. As for scrapping the play-offs, which would have just been 2 extra matches to play, that was a particular low – was that anything to do with SPFL board members from Hamilton and Brechin being involved in the boards’ decision making?

 

·         Why push through with playing Scottish Cup, knowing that one club, Hearts, would be at a massive disadvantage due to being unfairly expelled, resulting in not being able to train or play matches until a lot later than the other 3 semi-finalists? If you scrap the league surely you scrap the cup? Surely it’s not just continuing so Celtic can say they won another treble?

 

·         The Dundee vote is simply so farcical that no one can stick up for that and why it was allowed to happen. They voted against the proposal and it had to stand. More apparent blackmail carried out in open sight of the whole country.

 

·         The Rangers dossier: it had to go to a vote on whether it would be investigated but the SPFL own ‘Deloittes’ investigation happened in secret without any vote? Who paid for this and why was no vote needed? The SPFL appears to make up rules to suit themselves and then ignore them when it suits their agenda.

 

·         Why did the SFA not offer arbitration in April? They only offered it, along with a threat to the 3 wronged clubs, after court proceedings had started. Surely they should have offered this early rather than sitting back and watching the SPFL deliberately run down the clock.

 

·         The media and opposition supporters have always been critical of the way the SPFL is run but suddenly they are all incredibly supportive of them. It just feels like a witch-hunt against the 3 expelled teams. I’d expect the wider football family to show empathy and the punished clubs but, unfortunately, they are using what’s happened to stick the knife in. We have all heard the phrases ‘pay-back time’ etc. from certain chairmen and it’s unsavoury to say the least. Lots of media and chairmen need to take a step back and ask themselves if they have taken the wrong side on this, and for all the wrong reasons.

 

The bottom line is that the people saying that Hearts deserved to be relegated and should take their medicine are so wrong and would be arguing the absolute opposite if this happened to their club. We were only 4 points behind with 8 games to go and things can change quickly in football. We had quite recently prior to lockdown beaten Rangers twice and Hibs at Easter Road. We were blowing hot and cold but clearly capable of lifting it for big occasions. A perfect example is Werder Bremen, who were 4 points behind safety at lockdown in Germany with less games to play than we had, but survived once it resumed. We were not even the favourites with the bookies to go down at the point the league was called. As for Partick Thistle, that is simply farcical that they were relegated when a blind man could see they were going to play themselves out of it. Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer did not deserve to be relegated. Sporting integrity was thrown out the window when this was voted through. As for the person saying that Ann Budge would not have voted for reconstruction if it never benefited Hearts – that’s really poor. I don’t know her but all evidence would clearly show that she has a very high moral code. I am sure she would always have done the right thing – in this case, that would mean voting to ensure not one single club would be punished due to a global pandemic.

Very good summary of the injustice meted out on ourselves and two other clubs. I'd add that there was no need to decide on the champions or relegation at the time they did, for there was still two months to go before any decision had to be made during which the matter could have been debated without time constraints, even if it had been decided that no more games should be played and monies handed out. To me, the main reason it was handled in that rushed way was to 'justify' (the unjustifiable) deciding the winners at a time they could 'bribe' the clubs to come up with the sought after decision. I've not read any explanation of why it was necessary to hold one vote covering all these issues and why they couldn't be done individually allowing each club to judge each issue's merits individually. 

 

There's another thing that the media avoids discussing, along with the SPFL, and that is that Hearts etc held membership of their respective leagues that was theirs without question until 38 games had been played. On the other hand, Dundee Utd etc held their membership in the leagues they were in, and held no right in a place above until they had played 36 games, or had made it mathematically impossible to be caught. So we've had something we owned taken away from us, while Dundee United have been given our membership that they hadn't yet earned. I'm pretty certain that had promotion been stopped then none of the now 'promoted' clubs would have had a leg to stand on if they'd tried to take the SPFL to court, as they'd not had anything they undeniably owned taken from them.

[Big Drew]

19 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

 

Opinions are like rsholes - we've all got one eh? Shame you fell doon the stairs and hit your heid when you were wee!

[Don Dan]

12 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

 

The blame lies at the door of the SPFL. If you can’t see that them you need to take a step back from your word processor and spend time investigating the crooked, corrupt Glasgow centric Doncaster and the SPFL. Go away and sift through the time lines of the corrupt Dundee vote. Better save yourself time and wait till the Arbitration does it’s work and let the them expose it. Then come back on here and use as many words as you like to apologise to the many Hearts and Partick and Stranraer fans who see through the injustices and unfairness that you are intentionally blind to. A blindness coupled with bias that seeps though every word you typed. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

The blame lies at the door of the SPFL. If you can’t see that them you need to take a step back from your word processor and spend time investigating the crooked, corrupt Glasgow centric Doncaster and the SPFL. Go away and sift through the time lines of the corrupt Dundee vote. Better save yourself time and wait till the Arbitration does it’s work and let the them expose it. Then come back on here and use as many words as you like to apologise to the many Hearts and Partick and Stranraer fans who see through the injustices and unfairness that you are intentionally blind to. A blindness coupled with bias that seeps though every word you typed. 

@firsttimecaller won't be back, although no doubt he's having fun with the board search engine.

[Sooperstar]

52 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

**** all this did/didn't deserve to go down shite - back to the legal chat...

 

When can we expect to hear on who's been chosen for the arbitration? And when do we think it will actually start??

I don't think we do get to find out who the arbiters are. Confidential due to public interest etc. 

[Heartsmad1874]

36 minutes ago, jambo-in-furness said:

 

Lets get one thing straight,  compensation, whatever the amount is what it says, it’s to make up for our prospective loss in income.  OK it will be paid by the other clubs and that’s a plus but,  no way will it make up for being expelled.

 

Compensation is not profit.

You could argue that compensation weakens other teams as their income reduces massively from the pot especially the Premiership, whilst we have compo to cover losses, FOH backing, home sell out’s when fans are permitted again, one off donation from fans not attending away games and benefactors. This all could make us much stronger than the rest when we rightfully return to the Prem. 

[whodanny]

24 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

 

Wow ! You even came back for a second go! Thick skinned as well as thick.

[Dagger Is Back]

5 hours ago, tambothejambo said:

Bill Leckie having a full scale, off the charts, Love in for the SPFL

 

According to the Sun and Leckie Scottish Football is on its knees and it’s all our fault

 

Here’s the article so nobody needs to click on the disgusting rags site

 

BILL LECKIE 

Craig Gordon’s right, there is bad blood in relegation row…but Hearts spilled it

• Bill Leckie

• 22:39, 5 Jul 2020
• Updated: 22:39, 5 Jul 2020

 

Comment now

THE moment the fixture list drops really should be one of the great buzzes of any season.

But today it feels more like the drone of a bluebottle we can’t evict from the living room.

Gordon reckons there'll be bad blood for years over Hearts' relegation

Because, 115 days on from coronavirus getting football stopped, the new 2020-21 Premiership schedule isn’t so much carved in stone as scribbled on a napkin.

Away at Dundee United on day one?

Well, don’t make any travel plans yet, because they still might have their promotion scrapped, which means you’ll actually be away to Hearts.

Except, of course, if Hibs are at home. Which means they’ll either have to switch it so your lot play hosts instead. Or move it to a different day. Or rip the whole card up and start again.

Our man reckons Ann Budge has not helped herself with actions since relegation was confrimed

Wait, though. What if United DO get told they can’t move up from the Championship and some rich punter stumps up so THEY can take it to court? Where do we go from there?

Hell in a handcart, that’s where.

Though let’s be honest, we’re already halfway down the hill with no brakes.

Just 25 days until our flagship league is due to kick off and everything’s still up in the air thanks to missing votes, smoking guns, EGMs, court hearings, arbitration and so much backstabbing that it’s not face-masks you need to attend an SPFL meeting, it’s a Kevlar blazer.

No wonder sponsors are deserting the scene in droves.

Craig Gordon was right when he claimed on re-signing for the Jambos the other day that there will be “bad blood for years to come” after this miserable summer of discontent.

Hearts are lodged in a messy legal battle over the relegation row

He’s also bang on when he expresses his dismay that Scottish football hasn’t been able to sort itself out despite its problems not meaning a toss compared to what’s going on in the wider world.

Without wishing to pick an argument with one of the game’s good guys, though, I have to say that, if he’s searching for a reason why it’s all gone so pear-shaped, it’s right under his nose; right there in his boyhood club’s boardroom.

Hearts are the ones who finished bottom of the table despite spending top-three money on players.

Hearts are the ones who panicked and demanded those players take pay cuts before the government even had the chance to introduce the furlough scheme.

Hearts backed the wrong horse in the vote on ending the season early, then again on the vote calling for an independent probe into how that decision was reached.

A reconstruction plan that would have saved their bacon fell on its backside, even though their own sugar-mummy Ann Budge chaired the committee who came up with it.

They dragged United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers into their legal fight to have the final tables declared void, a situation that has left Raith fearing they’ll be unable to risk a six-figure legal bill and will simply be crossing their fingers that the decision goes their way.

As if this wasn’t heavy-handed enough, Budge then nicked Robbie Neilson from Tannadice as her new manager — a hefty investment which, along with the deal to bring Gordon in from Celtic, is an almighty boot in the stones for every employee forced into a drop in wages when Budge pleaded poverty.

I know Jambos fans will be sick of reading this, maybe even as sick as I am of writing it, but it has to be put on record that, despite dominating the headlines for pretty much all of these 115 locked-down days, their club have produced not one positive, winning idea.

Good God, even when the hugely-generous James Anderson offered a donation of millions to make sure no clubs went down the pan, all Budge had to do was introduce him to Neil Doncaster and let them shake hands, but even then she managed to turn it into a fight.

Like Rangers chairman Douglas Park before her, she’s read the room wrong time and again. She’s been fighting shadows, punching smoke.

Plus, when she and her lawyers were throwing their weight around by plunging the plans of the three lower league winners into disarray, why didn’t they have the courage to claim that Celtic shouldn’t have been named Premiership champions?

After all, if they’re actually saying relegation shouldn’t have counted, how can the title stand?

Sorry, but there are more holes in Budge’s defence than . . . well, there were in her back four all last season, which really is saying something. And, for the umpteenth time, let me also say without fear of contradiction that, if they’d come off the bottom by winning at Paisley in the last, pivotal match before the shutters came down, we’d never have heard a peep from them.

So, sure, there will be bad blood whatever happens now. But it’s Hearts who spilled it.

Sure, it’ll forever be a crying shame that they, Partick Thistle and Stranraer were condemned to the drop when they still had enough games left to save themselves.

But there are also countless businesses who might never open their doors again, tens of thousands of workers sweating over when they’ll earn a crust again.

All Hearts were asked to do was suck up some rank bad luck and agree to kick a ball around in a different division come August — a division they’d be odds-on favourites to win.

Whatever happens next in this sorry, sordid saga, the fact that they preferred to cause chaos for everyone else around them will stain those famous maroon shirts for a long time to come.

---

 

 

Holy shit the guy is having a meltdown.

 

Stain those famous maroons shirts and suck up some rank bad luck? 

 

What a complete and utter @@@@

 

Every other club in the league would be doing what we are. If he thinks this is messy can he just imagine what it would have been like had Rangers been at the top of the league? 

 

I wasn't for banning sections of the press as being discussed on the other thread, but stuff that. Gloves off, add him to the list

[Jambo314]

1 minute ago, Sooperstar said:

I don't think we do get to find out who the arbiters are. Confidential due to public interest etc. 

They have the choice to disclose who they are.

[Hagar the Horrible]

That survey that came out more or less stated that 34% of fans won’t return.  Of the remaining 66% who will go to all games?  Rather than wait until covid is gone?  How many will only go to home games?  People trust their own manor, doing a dump on your own toilet etc?

 

How many say Killie or St Johnstone fans will go to a home game where there are 3 stands of OF fans, not just fans, but people with the worst hygiene habits on the planet? And not the normal fans of the OF but less selective members of the gene pool?

 

By default I think away fans will be down by about 80% outside the OF, I would take that as a boycott by proxy!

 

Going to an away game will have a look like you have just found a skid mark on your face cloth!

[Sooperstar]

1 minute ago, Jambo314 said:

They have the choice to disclose who they are.

I see. Not sure I would expect any of them to expose themselves to that.

[Deevers]

38 minutes ago, luckydug said:

How the **** are you still here ? 

 

A mystery - he absolutely reeks.

[Brick Tamland]

1 hour ago, firsttimecaller said:

I'm aware this is an essay, but nevermind!

 

It’s come to the point where I feel I can’t stand by any more. A reality check needs to kick-in at some point here.

 

At the time when the league was suspended, Hearts were bottom. They were beaten 1-0 by St Mirren in a game which the vast majority of Hearts supporters, and everyone else, had labelled as “must win”. Hearts didn’t win this game, and were therefore four points adrift at the bottom of the table with eight games to play. Hearts had won four games all season. The performance at St Mirren was described variously as “meek”, “insipid” and “lacking threat”. Hearts nearest rivals for relegation were unbeaten in their last five home matches and had kept clean sheets in four of those.

 

Hearts supporters shared the view that, from a sporting point of view, they were the worst team in the league. On 14^th March, under the title of “At What point Did You Think Our Season Was Doomed?”, various posters on JKB acknowledged how poor Hearts were. Saughton Jambo, who has recently been noticeably vocal around fairness with regards to the Court of Session case, pointed out “This is worse than the 80-81 season [when Hearts were relegated]. We had an excuse back then... we don’t now”. Stan pointed out that “Going 3 down to Killie after the break … was the last chance to turn the corner and finish the season well”. Famous 1874 said that “It’s hard to say when we were doomed as we’ve been s***e all season bar a handful of results”. In a poll on the 14^th March on JKB, 12.8% of Hearts own fans acknowledged that they deserved to be relegated.

 

From a sporting perspective, Hearts were the worst football team in the league. In the match thread following the St Mirren defeat, the overall mood was disappointment and acknowledgment of how poor a team they were. In that match thread, Fozzyonthefence noted prior to the defeat “Lose on Wednesday and we’re down.  I think you’re the only person on here that doesn’t think that” in response to a poster suggesting they could stay up. JimmyCant pointed out that “We’ve got 5 key games left … We’ll need to win 4 out of those 5. That’s becoming a big ask the more you look at it.” Bear in mind, this is a Hearts team that had won four times all season.

 

On sporting merit, Hearts deserved to be relegated.

 

There is also the worrying trend emerging around Hearts supporters expressly hoping for negative outcomes for other clubs whilst at the same time becoming noticeably vocal around the concept of fairness. There is the startling example of the post on the aforementioned St Mirren matchday thread of a poster highlighting how funny it would be to beat St Mirren, sending them bottom, and then for the season to be called due to COVID19. I’m fairly certain the poster in question has had this particular post copy/pasted several times, and so I’ll spare them the reminder of it. This schadenfreude has now been replaced by hoping that other clubs go into administration, seemingly based on the assumption that they “voted against Hearts” in order to relegate them.

 

Throughout various threads, numerous assertions have been made as to which clubs people would like to go into administration. The thread titled “Administration” from 26^th June notes that some fans believe that “quite a few” will suffer this fate and that Hearts should “Get that interdict served ASAP”. Amongst others, Dundee, Hibs, St Mirren, Ross County, Hamilton and Albion Rovers are all named as clubs that posters hope enter administration, a process which results in numerous job losses and can end in financial hardship for ordinary employees. It’s noteworthy that several of these clubs were Hearts rivals within the bottom six of the league.Thank goodness for the few comments of common sense on such matters, notably Sassenach, who said “I've suffered admin events … It's horrible, and I wouldn't wish it on any fellow football fans”. Some things surely transcend sport.

 

The matter of finance also comes into play in issue. Hearts suffered a previous administration event, ultimately leading to their relegation in the 2010s. This was caused largely by financial mismanagement. Within their list of creditors, Hearts included fellow football clubs Ayr United, Livingston, Musselburgh Athletic, Stenhousemuir and Rangers. They also owed monies to a variety of public bodies, including the City of Edinburgh Council, Scottish Water and Scottish Police Authority. There are no winners in administration events. Supporter boycotts of all clubs who voted against Hearts league reconstruction proposals have been widely mentioned online.

 

To a significant extent, supporters of other clubs (the Pie & Bovril forum is a marker of this) do sympathise with the situation in which Hearts currently find themselves, but many have expressed a significant distaste for the sense of entitlement being displayed. Under the JKB thread of “Wigan Go Into Administration”, posters note that there may be “decent freebies to be had” and that this is “karma for Webstergate”. The irony and understanding of the concept of karma and justice for perceived previous wrongdoings is an interesting one.

 

Similarly, the suggestion that Dundee United are a target of Hearts fans’ dislike appears to be an interesting perspective. Taken from the thread last week on JKB  “I Used To Post On Here About Liking Dundee Utd”, Salad Fingers notes that he/she “recently developed a strong hatred of them and their fans”. The supposed crime committed by Dundee United is defending themselves and their promotion in the Court of Session and being asked to pay £50,000 for the privilege.

 

The thread posted this morning on JKB titled “Merging Clubs” highlights and reinforces the prevailing sense of entitlement amongst posters on the site, perhaps representative of the wider Hearts support. The assertion from Space Pirate that there are “far too many wee diddy clubs” and that clubs should merge underlines the contempt in which other clubs in Scotland are held.

 

As it stands, the hugely successful Foundation of Hearts brings circa £2M into the club each year from fans and it has been revealed that James Anderson has acted as a benefactor over recent times. During this time, Hearts have spent £17M on a main stand within Tynecastle and this is yet to be fully completed. During the recent Court of Session case, various figures of compensation have been raised and noted, both on JKB and within the Scottish media. It has been suggested that Hearts are seeking compensation and damages in the region of £8M.

 

Following on from the Court of Session hearing, Hearts supporters are seemingly painting the club, and Ann Budge in particular, as champions of justice, noting that there is a crucial role to be played in fighting corruption. Indeed, it has been suggested that Ann Budge previously stepped down from her role on the SPFL Board as she wanted to challenge the corruption that she saw. Reporting of the matter would seem to indicate otherwise - https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts-chairwoman-ann-budge-voted-spfl-board-583624

 

Throughout this process since March, there has been much play with regards to revisionism. The term relegated has been replaced with expelled, for instance. Interestingly, manager Daniel Stendal’s contract reputably had a clause allowing it’s termination in the event of relegation, as confirmed by both Ann Budge and Daniel Stendal. This clause was enacted. The tone and portrayal of Ann Budge has shifted too. Compare the descriptions with regards to her perceived leadership skills that were expressed on JKB during January and February to now.

 

Before Hearts continue to fall further down the rabbit hole of blaming other people, clubs and institutions, perhaps the blame needs to lie closer to home.

Cherry picking at its best and the time and effort you have put into it to make some very lame points Is a bit strange. You have made some wild assumptions that only Hearts supporters post on JKB and that they represent the majority of Hearts supporters, and of all the ones you have quoted they are hardly guaranteed to be Hearts Supporters.

There are also plenty of supporters who have posted on here who said we won’t get relegated but you’ve chosen to ignore them. 
You have also completely missed the point by not mentioning the fate of the other clubs who have suffered especially Partick Thistle. 
You seem to have plenty time on your hands so why don’t you use it constructively and perhaps go onto the Sevco fans site and have a look at the religious and racist bile they spout or on the Celtic fans site to see similar but the other side of the coin or even look at all the sites of other clubs who thinks that ‘Hearts should take their medicine’ and look at some of the stuff they are hoping happens to Hearts. Your post is just lazy, petty and ill informed. 
The big story isn’t Hearts v Scottish football, it is about the incompetence, bias, corruption and dishonesty that is rampant in the corridors of Hampden. Unfortunately, you, along with the rest of the Scottish Media, are too lazy and yellow to look into that which is a shame because that story would have everyone’s interest and might get people to buy papers again. 
So your post is a 2 out of 10 for me. 
 

[Jambo314]

Just now, Sooperstar said:

I see. Not sure I would expect any of them to expose themselves to that.

Probably not 😁

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, whodanny said:

Wow ! You even came back for a second go! Thick skinned as well as thick.

He's just going all out to get a reaction  He's a journalist of some type and a snake.

[heatonjambo]

29 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

 

Your a rosebud 

 

google it

[Cruyff]

Bill Leckie and Keef Jackson should both be clubbed. Couple of absolute morons. 

[whodanny]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

He's just going all out to get a reaction  He's a journalist of some type and a snake.

A journalist ? Where ? Beano ? Dandy ? Whizzer and Chips ?

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

20 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

 

So, was your post merely an attempt to make Hearts supporters feel bad about themselves, or was it an attempt, devoid of any reasoned argument, to persuade us that the SPFL was completely justified in relegating Hearts? Do you not think that such a long post requires a justification of our relegation before you start criticising people for their anger at being kicked out while safety was still well within our grasp? You also completely ignore the fact that our words are just a harmless expression of our anger, the result of an action that our detractors offer no more justification for than, 'you were a crap team', or, well..! What was that justification?

 

Your claim to be a Bonnyrigg Rose supporter is about as believable as Chick Young's claim to be a St Mirren supporter, or Jim Traynor's to be an Airdrie fan. In fact, it rather confirms that you work for one of the Glasgow based media outlets.

[Mikey1874]

29 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

The early researched part was good. 

 

But you must have an agenda as opposed to an open mind. Or perhaps simple minded.

 

Sport produces moments and confounds expectations all the time. 24 points to play no one with any sense would say Hearts couldn't avoid relegation. 

[whyskey]

1 hour ago, PTBCAL said:

Does anyone still believe we will

be reinstated. We are in the championship and hopefully with a few quid compensation in our pocket. 
 

As a club this needs to be resolved soon as ultimately there will be some big decisions to make on and off the pitch 

the spfl want It to be the compensation route as they can then point the finger at us and partick, it does not matter if Its 5-10 or 15 million pounds as that comes from the other clubs and there ire will be against us. they then walk away with no blame for this mess as they tried to fight there corner. most clubs are to stupid to realise that they are being played by the spfl especially du rr cr.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, whodanny said:

A journalist ? Where ? Beano ? Dandy ? Whizzer and Chips ?

Showing your age Danny 😀  Was more of a Victor man myself.

[Jeff]

If it's the compensation route then I can see a few teams above us going into admin/bust. Surely the SPFL know that reinstatement is the best option here?

[The Future's Maroon]

Will we get a third call? I bloody hope not.

[jackal]

@firsttimecaller

So what was your reaction to The Rose being rejected initially for the SFA licence and no entry into the Lowland league. Would you have just accepted that you would spend another season in EoS .

[Italian Lambretta]

5 minutes ago, Jeff said:

If it's the compensation route then I can see a few teams above us going into admin/bust. Surely the SPFL know that reinstatement is the best option here?

Your waisting your breath mate that ship has sailed there is no backing down from either side 

[Beast Boy]

32 minutes ago, firsttimecaller said:

In order to set a few points correct with regards to things I posted earlier.

 

Obviously, I don’t support Hearts, nor do I have a vested interest in the SPFL. I follow my local club, Bonnyrigg Rose.

 

No, I’m not a journalist or being paid or asked to post.

 

To be frank, I felt compelled to post on the basis I genuinely believe that the bigger picture is being missed here by supporters of Hearts on here in the dash to lay blame at everyone else’s door. 
 

 

 

Nobody is missing the bigger picture. You are getting fixated on one issue, and attempting to pass that issue off as justification for our unfair expulsion.

 

The issue that you are fixating on, is that we were struggling in the league, despite spending more money on our squad than most of the other clubs in the division. Not one Hearts supporter on here is missing that point. Not a single solitary one. It’s just that that one issue is almost completely irrelevant when the league is curtailed with a quarter of the season left to play, and 24 points up for grabs. History and official records show that there was a very good chance we would not have finished bottom of the league had carried on. Many examples of this have been posted on here. 
 

What are you hoping to achieve by coming on here and posting that lengthy pile of obtuse horseshit anyway? Were you thinking you would be able to just stroll in and change everybody’s opinion on the unfairness of the situation we found ourselves voted in to? It’s not going to happen because:

 

1) Few people are thick enough to not understand what happened to us.

 

2) Your arguments are just recycled garbage that we have discussed at length already.

 

So, here’s a question for you. As a Bonnyrigg supporter, what prompts you to come on here and post that? You’ve clearly been lurking for a while, as your first post contains names and dates where various posters have left various comments. That’s an awful lot of effort from someone who supports a lowland league club and claims not to support Hearts nor any other SPFL club.

 

What were you hoping to achieve?

[Dagger Is Back]

3 hours ago, firsttimecaller said:

 

An essay it is. An essay however not worth the space on this forum. God knows who you are or what your objective is  but you miss the point spectacularly. There was an opportunity to reconstruct therefore avoiding all of the pain that Scottish football is going through. Every single other club in our position would do likewise. The way the club has been run is irrelevant - your comments re James Anderson and the new stand have no relevance to this situation

 

St Mirren pulled themselves off the bottom of the league last season with 8 games to go. St Johnstone moved themselves from the bottom after Xmas when most pundits thought they were doomed. The game isn't over until the final whistle but in this case, with 20 minutes of a 90 minute game to go, the ref has called a halt

 

Only folks who are either thick as proverbial,  or so blinded by loyalty to their own club, or hate of another, would fail to see how unjust that situation is

 

Throw in the underhanded tactics of the SPFL Board throughout and no wonder Hearts and their fan base are raging

 

There's a bigger picture here though too.  We've been governed with a West coast bias since time began. If the whole house of cards is brought down then so be it. Vlad tried to do it years ago but the rest all scurried under their rocks, as many have done this time. 

 

Time for change and get rid of a set up where Rangers/Celtic games are refereed differently because of who they are, fixture lists manipulated because Neil Lennon wants the fans to be at the first derby, fixture lists being manipulated so that either team can't win the league whilst playing the other

 

If as a supposed football fan, you can't see why we are where we are, there's no hope for you

[cjwye]

So if it’s compensation from 42 clubs it means Hearts and Partick actually have to contribute toward it? I hope the beaks take that into account when awarding anything.