Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[pettigrewsstylist]

If there is football played in UK again, in front of spectators, during 2020 i would be happily surprised.

Edited April 6, 2020 by pettigrewsstylist

[soonbe110]

29 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

The season isn’t going to be null and void, that’s not happening and from what we are hearing, isn’t an option. The SFA want to declare the season as it stands, Celtic champions and us relegated, all the noise we have heard from Hearts is to try influence that decision so it doesn’t happen. It was reported on sportsound on Saturday that the overwhelming majority of chairmen in the Scottish game want the league called. I think the SFA are now trying to test and query the seriousness of UEFA’s threat of removing Euro places for leagues that don’t commit to finishing the season by their new dead line. We will hear on Wednesday that we have been relegated, that’s my gut feeling. 

Patrick being relegated would be a much bigger issue than us and show a complete lack of sporting integrity. Can’t see them doing that but who knows. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

16 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

And if so, then we'll hear on Thursday that we're suing the arse off the SPFL.

I’ve got my doubts about that and AB said on Saturday she hasn’t even taken legal advice.  If they go down that route it will be pretty futile.  
 

This group of players deserve relegation, the fans don’t but the players most certainly do.  The thing is though, most of them probably won’t hang around to see the fruits of their labour in the Championship and leave the shitshow for the fans and a new group of players.  

[soonbe110]

Seems to me there’s a UK solution just waiting to be used:

 

Call the season as finished. Suspend football until say 1 October at the earliest. All clubs in the UK can put their entire playing squads on furlough and claim the £2,500 per month per player. It’s then up to the clubs to decide what amount above the £2,500 they can afford to give their players. 
This gives clubs a chance to sort out their finances, it gives clubs and fa’s time to schedule next season’s fixtures ( as soon as promotion and relegation agreed) and clubs can safely offer season tickets to fans. 
 

(In Scotland clubs would also have the option of exercising article 12 but with govt scheme available there’s no real point in going down that route.) 

 

I accept that there’s some tough promotion/relegation calls but a one season restructuring would fix about 90% of those, both in England and Scotland. What am I missing? 

[Dazo]

37 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

The season isn’t going to be null and void, that’s not happening and from what we are hearing, isn’t an option. The SFA want to declare the season as it stands, Celtic champions and us relegated, all the noise we have heard from Hearts is to try influence that decision so it doesn’t happen. It was reported on sportsound on Saturday that the overwhelming majority of chairmen in the Scottish game want the league called. I think the SFA are now trying to test and query the seriousness of UEFA’s threat of removing Euro places for leagues that don’t commit to finishing the season by their new dead line. We will hear on Wednesday that we have been relegated, that’s my gut feeling. 

You can’t reward or punish clubs when the competition is incomplete without leaving yourself open to all sort of legal battles. We won’t be relegated. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Patrick being relegated would be a much bigger issue than us and show a complete lack of sporting integrity. Can’t see them doing that but who knows. 

I agree, the Championship is a much bigger problem all round - not so much automatic promotion since it follows that if Celtic are declared champions then Dundee Utd must be too but that have a tough decision regarding what to do regarding relegation and play offs in that league.

[jr ewing]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

I'm not sure that's correct.  The scheme is for job retention and if a player's contracr comes to an end and Hearts don't want to retain him then there is no job retention.  Unless therefore there is a specific clause covering this situation I would have thought the player would have to turn to dole/universal credit if the qualifications are met.

I think it helps if they can be paid by their most recent employer who in turn can then be recompensed. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

You can’t reward or punish clubs when the competition is incomplete without leaving yourself open to all sort of legal battles. We won’t be relegated. 

👍

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, Dazo said:

You can’t reward or punish clubs when the competition is incomplete without leaving yourself open to all sort of legal battles. We won’t be relegated. 

My thoughts too. I’m absolutely certain that whatever happens, once the dust settles, HMFC will still be in the top division.

[Hagar the Horrible]

The Furlough scheme is only as far as I know available until 31st May?  it might get extended, but there will be very little sympathy for and club being refused an extention with TOP EFL clubs who can afford 1 player @ £75m  yet still think its OK to screw a government scheme,  lets face it that Cities inhabitants have been doing it for like EVER!

 

That money can pay their whole Non-playing staff and still have enough left over for a Pop-up Hospital

[DETTY29]

7 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I’ve got my doubts about that and AB said on Saturday she hasn’t even taken legal advice.  If they go down that route it will be pretty futile.  
 

This group of players deserve relegation, the fans don’t but the players most certainly do.  The thing is though, most of them probably won’t hang around to see the fruits of their labour in the Championship and leave the shitshow for the fans and a new group of players.  

I reckon it won't be independent legal advice.

 

We have at least 1 director who should be providing a  legal view based on their profession.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

14 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

More than 700 a day? Would be surprised.

Short term view v long term view

 

Mental health issues, suicide, poverty related deaths, alcoholism domestic abuse - all things that will incrementally increase the longer we are locked in

 

13 hours ago, braveheart said:

The Germans are also fiddling the figures.corona virus has to be the cause of death.if someone has cancer and then gets Corona virus I believe there blaming the cancer.

I agree with this - 85% of people who have died with COVID had a life expectancy of less than 2 years - dying with COVID is completely different from dying because of it

 

6 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

My thoughts too. I’m absolutely certain that whatever happens, once the dust settles, HMFC will still be in the top division.

Ultimately we are the 3rd best supported club in the SPL - when this is all over everyone apart from the Uglies will be better off with is in the SPL. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

4 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Ultimately we are the 3rd best supported club in the SPL - when this is all over everyone apart from the Uglies will be better off with is in the SPL. 

I think some people are getting carried away with our importance to the PL, just as the media and certain people went OTT on Sevco’s absence. A couple of thousand away fans once or maybe twice a season isn’t going to make a huge difference to them.

[Mikey1874]

30 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I’ve got my doubts about that and AB said on Saturday she hasn’t even taken legal advice.  If they go down that route it will be pretty futile.  
 

This group of players deserve relegation, the fans don’t but the players most certainly do.  The thing is though, most of them probably won’t hang around to see the fruits of their labour in the Championship and leave the shitshow for the fans and a new group of players.  

 

You could equally say Hamilton and St Mirren players deserve to go down.

[Dazo]

30 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

My thoughts too. I’m absolutely certain that whatever happens, once the dust settles, HMFC will still be in the top division.

Yep and so we should be until the competition is finished and we have our final deserved league placing.  I’m sick of this we deserve to go down, fresh start, For the best, clean slate chat. 

[Pasquale for King]

39 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Seems to me there’s a UK solution just waiting to be used:

 

Call the season as finished. Suspend football until say 1 October at the earliest. All clubs in the UK can put their entire playing squads on furlough and claim the £2,500 per month per player. It’s then up to the clubs to decide what amount above the £2,500 they can afford to give their players. 
This gives clubs a chance to sort out their finances, it gives clubs and fa’s time to schedule next season’s fixtures ( as soon as promotion and relegation agreed) and clubs can safely offer season tickets to fans. 
 

(In Scotland clubs would also have the option of exercising article 12 but with govt scheme available there’s no real point in going down that route.) 

 

I accept that there’s some tough promotion/relegation calls but a one season restructuring would fix about 90% of those, both in England and Scotland. What am I missing? 

TV money 

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Dazo said:

Yep and so we should be until the competition is finished and we have our final deserved league placing.  I’m sick of this we deserve to go down, fresh start, For the best, clean slate chat. 

So am I. Can’t get my head around that sort of thing coming from Hearts supporters. Thankfully just a tiny minority, and some are definitely just trolling.

[Last Laff]

3 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Yep and so we should be until the competition is finished and we have our final deserved league placing.  I’m sick of this we deserve to go down, fresh start, For the best, clean slate chat. 

Aye, **** that for a laugh.  Fight this with absolute everything. Nobody deserves to get relegated until the season finishes or at the very least it’s mathematically impossible to stay up.  The club is a massive club with loads of implications on the line if they relegate us.  Time to say fk Dundee Utd and tough luck to them. 

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Last Laff said:

Aye, **** that for a laugh.  Fight this with absolute everything. Nobody deserves to get relegated until the season finishes or at the very least it’s mathematically impossible to stay up.  The club is a massive club with loads of implications on the line if they relegate us.  Time to say fk Dundee Utd and tough luck to them. 

Exactly that. Nothing is going to be fair but you can’t punish teams because of this. 
 

This probably deserves to be in the other thread. 

[soonbe110]

11 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

TV money 

It’s peanuts for most clubs compared to saving on wages and season ticket money though. 

[Bazzas right boot]

If Utd had been on a point or two clear I'd doubt there would even be a discussion. 

 

It's only because they are so far ahead that denoting us and promoting them is even being considered. 

 

How far Utd are clear or not should have no bearing on Hearts being relegated. 

 

Relegation may happen but Hearts would win in court if only because there are other options available. 

 

When broken down there is no real reason to relegate us other than to award utd, but that isn't a fair or good enough reason to force such a change on a club and importantly a business when there are other options available. 

 

The league is set up with the premise of the split as well, now if they relegated us they are saying it is unimportant... Why have then in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Unknown user]

I think the league know fine they've got an almighty legal battle ahead if they try to relegate us without completing the season, and they won't fancy it one bit - they're skint and they've seen how our fans can pull together finance. Not a chance they fancy taking us on.

 

I'd be very surprised if they're dumb enough to go down that route.

[Last Laff]

4 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

If Utd had been on a point or two clear I'd doubt there would even be a discussion. 

 

It's only because they are so far ahead that denoting us and promoting them is even being considered. 

 

How far Utd are clear or not should have no bearing on Hearts being relegated. 

 

Relegation may happen but Hearts would win in court if only because there are other options available. 

 

When broken down there is no real reason to relegate us other than to award utd, but that isn't a fair or good enough reason to force such a change on a club and importantly a business when there are other options available. 

 

The league is set up with the premise of the split as well, now if they relegated us they are saying it is unimportant... Why have then in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Exactly that. Nothing is going to be fair but you can’t punish teams because of this. 
 

This probably deserves to be in the other thread. 

My one fear is the league is a invitation in the first place so if the ruling is against the club an appeal might fetch a sum money but the invitation revoked. 

[Last Laff]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I think the league know fine they've got an almighty legal battle ahead if they try to relegate us without completing the season, and they won't fancy it one bit - they're skint and they've seen how our fans can pull together finance. Not a chance they fancy taking us on.

 

I'd be very surprised if they're dumb enough to go down that route.

We are pretty much skint also though.  I don’t think it will come to that though.  I think a compensation may be offered to Dundee Utd. 

[Unknown user]

18 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

We are pretty much skint also though.  I don’t think it will come to that though.  I think a compensation may be offered to Dundee Utd. 

We are indeed, pretty much, but we'd have a lot more people willing to chip in for costs than them.

I think you're probably right, that or reconstruction are most likely if the season isn't completed.

[Hearts_fan]

Allan Preston is an agent for some Hearts players is he not? 

 

Hardly surprising that he's praising the woman with the purse.

 

I've not had time to read all the comments but my reaction to the Budge interview was a tinge of disappointment in hearing the news that this squad of sheisters are on secure high-basic salary contracts, and play in full knowledge they'll receive their large basics regardless of how they play.

 

To be honest, that's hardly surprising news given we're sitting bottom of the league, while most of us are scratching our heads wondering why this squad of players are playing with such a lack of motivation.

 

My other feeling is that these players have a BLOODY cheek standing firm for their salaries when it is clear the ONLY income the club has at present is probably from FoH donations, and if that money isn't even being used for wages, where the hell do they think the money is coming from?

 

Any player refusing a pay cut should be told their contracts will not be renewed and their wage-cut stances will be made public on completion of their contracts.

 

Absolutely spoilt-sheisters. 

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Hearts_fan

[Pasquale for King]

31 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

It’s peanuts for most clubs compared to saving on wages and season ticket money though. 

Yes but the new deal with Sky is supposed to start in the summer, they will definitely need to be taken into consideration rightly or wrongly.

As you said the UK I thought you were maybe not factoring in the £762m that the EPL would have to pay back if this season isn’t finished.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Last Laff]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

We are indeed, pretty much, but we'd have a lot more people willing to chip in for costs than them.

I think you're probably right, that or reconstruction are most likely if the season isn't completed.

True 👍

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Hearts_fan said:

Allan Preston is an agent for some Hearts players is he not? 

 

Hardly surprising that he's praising the woman with the purse.

 

I've not had time to read all the comments but my reaction to the Budge interview was a tinge of disappointment in hearing the news that this squad of sheisters are on secure high-basic salary contracts, and play in full knowledge they'll receive their large basics regardless of how they play.

 

To be honest, that's hardly surprising news given we're sitting bottom of the league, while most of us are scratching our heads wondering why this squad of players are playing with such a lack of motivation.

 

My other feeling is that these players have a BLOODY cheek standing firm for their salaries when it is clear the ONLY income the club has at present is probably there FoH payments, and if that money isn't even being used for wages, where the hell do they think the money is coming from?

 

Any player refusing a pay cut should be told their contracts will not be renewed and their wage-cut stances will be made public on completion of their contracts.

 

Absolutely spoilt-sheisters. 

 

It’s only Tony Macdonald I think.

[busby1985]

All the noise from day dot about this shut down has been to call the league as it stands. We have been very vocal, very early in all of this about wages and legal action if we are relegated. That says to me we’ve had our own idea that this would end in us being relegated from very early on. Add in we haven’t sold season books and have went on our own direction in regards to the wage cuts. Am not saying I agree with it but I think we should start preparing ourselves for us being relegated at some point this week. What Tom English hinted at on sportsound on Saturday would be us relegated and then almost instant league reconstruction that would see us back into the league. 

[Pasquale for King]

22 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

All the noise from day dot about this shut down has been to call the league as it stands. We have been very vocal, very early in all of this about wages and legal action if we are relegated. That says to me we’ve had our own idea that this would end in us being relegated from very early on. Add in we haven’t sold season books and have went on our own direction in regards to the wage cuts. Am not saying I agree with it but I think we should start preparing ourselves for us being relegated at some point this week. What Tom English hinted at on sportsound on Saturday would be us relegated and then almost instant league reconstruction that would see us back into the league. 

That solution won’t appease everyone as we will have that stain on our record but it would do for me and probably the vast majority of Hearts fans.

[luckydug]

21 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

All the noise from day dot about this shut down has been to call the league as it stands. We have been very vocal, very early in all of this about wages and legal action if we are relegated. That says to me we’ve had our own idea that this would end in us being relegated from very early on. Add in we haven’t sold season books and have went on our own direction in regards to the wage cuts. Am not saying I agree with it but I think we should start preparing ourselves for us being relegated at some point this week. What Tom English hinted at on sportsound on Saturday would be us relegated and then almost instant league reconstruction that would see us back into the league. 

In that scenario do the 2-3-4 in the Championship play off for the other place in the new league ? 

[EH11]

1 hour ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

My thoughts too. I’m absolutely certain that whatever happens, once the dust settles, HMFC will still be in the top division.

 

That's stating the obvious.  Whatever league Hearts are in can credibly be called, the top division 😉

[IveSeenTheLight]

11 minutes ago, luckydug said:

In that scenario do the 2-3-4 in the Championship play off for the other place in the new league ? 

 

I think the tough call is that 2 gets up, no play-off for 3 & 4.

The interesting part is what is the promotion / relegation criteria at the end of next season.

[busby1985]

10 minutes ago, luckydug said:

In that scenario do the 2-3-4 in the Championship play off for the other place in the new league ? 

No idea, he only mentioned that, that is what he is hearing behind the scenes. BM mentioned aswell that the majority of chairmen wanted the league called not played behind closed doors or played into the later stages of the year. League reconstruction has to happen sooner or later, I’d prefer we didn’t have the asterisks hanging over us but I’d also prefer not to be playing Alloa. 
 

The league is going to be called IMO, it’s bananas think we are suddenly going to start playing football again anytime soon when people are burying 13 year olds and having to Skype into the funeral. As it stands, our PM is fighting this virus and people expect him, if he pulls through, to suddenly ease the social distancing measures. The league will be called as is and next season will be a deferred and condensed one. This is all just what I think is going to happen by the way. 

[Jambo in Yorkshire]

The Open golf has been cancelled in mid July.

 

That makes it more likely there won’t be any football this season.

 

A top league of 14 starting in October looks more of a possibility as time moves on.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Jambo in Yorkshire

[busby1985]

2 minutes ago, Barack said:

 

So defo no football any time soon then. What’s the UEFA deadline, is it August? 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yes but the new deal with Sky is supposed to start in the summer, they will definitely need to be taken into consideration rightly or wrongly.

As you said the UK I thought you were maybe not factoring in the £762m that the EPL would have to pay back if this season isn’t finished.

I was aware of them being out of pocket big time but I’m sure the deal could be negotiated to something acceptable. It’s really looking like Sept/Oct before they could restart which means next season will run from Nov - May because of Euro 2020/1. Any money rescued by extending this season will be lost due a much shorter league campaign next season. Virtually everyone in the world is losing out financially because of this pandemic. Why should any football league be different? 

[Hagar the Horrible]

Yooffa are still trying to look like they are in control when in reality events have over taken them and thats when incompetence floats to the surface,  SFA and SPFL are doing the same, hoping Yoofa will bail them out, but when the top looks like they are just making it up and showing no actual leadership, the game is in a big mess, governments and Covid will decide how this works and when we can all go back to training?  The Germans have their clubs back in, but the backlash for that will be imense when 1 player gets it and spreads it to their entire squad!

[soonbe110]

3 minutes ago, Barack said:

Can't remember. But it was more to back up your thoughts along with most of us, about it being fanciful bordering on criminal, for UEFA to be seen to be applying veiled threats to Governments over letting footballers back to work.

 

Football and sport in general, is so low down the list of things to do, it's laughable. Football is contact sport, and if UEFA expects tests to be given to players and staff, ahead of those most in need around the world...they need to be very careful.

 

Not even American sport is making this much of a fuss about it. Except for Trump wanting the NFL season to start as normal, while also trying to kill off a few thousand of his citizens, trying to "open up the country" and take non-FDA approved drugs while they do it.

Whole situation would be simplified if govt just called it. No sports events until Aug/Sept whatever. Given that it’s unlikely that any emergency services will be available until autumn then professional sports events can’t proceed without them. 

[ramrod]

37 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

That solution won’t appease everyone as we will have that stain on our record but it would do for me and probably the vast majority of Hearts fans.

The problem will be the chairman of the other Spfl clubs , they will want Hearts relegated  under the pretence of league reconstruction not being feasible, guaranteed 

[East Lothian Jambo]

2 hours ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

If there is football played in UK again, in front of spectators, during 2020 i would be happily surprised.

Looks and feels that way

 

Far bigger issues going on in the world than a football season being played to conclusion 

[wavydavy]

On 05/04/2020 at 08:48, maroonlegions said:

 

 

Real shortage of PPE for front line NHS staff, then do the maths...

 

 

 

 

 

 

The same argument could be applied to many Super-Rich major shareholders in Big Businesses who are looking for Government bailouts meanwhile their billions are well protected.

[wavydavy]

I wonder if AB will continue down the route of paying future players relatively high basic pay or if she might revert back to the old Wallace Mercer style of much lower basic pay with decent bonuses?

[Hagar the Horrible]

15 minutes ago, ramrod said:

The problem will be the chairman of the other Spfl clubs , they will want Hearts relegated  under the pretence of league reconstruction not being feasible, guaranteed 

Then we boycott their stadiums when we get back, do you think next year Hamilton will fill the cash gap over us.....Naw and besides as this will go on, so its all about who will survive without going into admin and then who will be able to compete coming OUT of admin, and the rest well good night Vienna!!!!!!!

 

League recontruction will be based on Darwin and it will be forced upon us all

 

Cash injections will be required by all clubs, so having one of the biggest sellable box office showcase clubs in the lower league when there is no league sponsor, talk about turkeys with voting rights

Edited April 6, 2020 by Hagar the Horrible

[busby1985]

14 minutes ago, Barack said:

Can't remember. But it was more to back up your thoughts along with most of us, about it being fanciful bordering on criminal, for UEFA to be seen to be applying veiled threats to Governments over letting footballers back to work.

 

Football and sport in general, is so low down the list of things to do, it's laughable. Football is contact sport, and if UEFA expects tests to be given to players and staff, ahead of those most in need around the world...they need to be very careful.

 

Not even American sport is making this much of a fuss about it. Except for Trump wanting the NFL season to start as normal, while also trying to kill off a few thousand of his citizens, trying to "open up the country" and take non-FDA approved drugs while they do it.

Yeah it’s becoming dangerous all this talk about games behind closed doors. How do you stop people gathering to watch important matches. Hearts/Hibs Scottish cup semi behind closed doors and we all just sit and watch it ourselves or we lift the cup, we just going to post on kickback?? I wish UEFA would just say “we need the money or we will owe too much to sponsors and TV deals” etc. That’s what all this boils down to, money. 
 

This shortermism outlook for what is going to be a long term problem is a joke. Could be 18 months before a vaccine is available to combat this virus, even if we somehow manage to get something sorted for 12 months, we are still going to have to combat this with social distancing. We’ve got no idea if you become immune after infection or anything, we are literally trying to put out a wild fire with buckets and spades and hoping for the best. Football really needs to catch a grip and get up to speed with what’s happening. 

[soonbe110]

3 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

I wonder if AB will continue down the route of paying future players relatively high basic pay or if she might revert back to the old Wallace Mercer style of much lower basic pay with decent bonuses?

Depends on who we want to compete with in transfer market. Killie or Aberdeen/Hubs 

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

I wonder if AB will continue down the route of paying future players relatively high basic pay or if she might revert back to the old Wallace Mercer style of much lower basic pay with decent bonuses?

IMO that is the best way forward.

[East Lothian Jambo]

2 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

I wonder if AB will continue down the route of paying future players relatively high basic pay or if she might revert back to the old Wallace Mercer style of much lower basic pay with decent bonuses?

The strategy of high basic and low bonus doesn't appear to have captured the imagination of those on the payroll 

[Cruyff]

3 minutes ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

The strategy of high basic and low bonus doesn't appear to have captured the imagination of those on the payroll 

You're right but having lower basic wages probably means that a lot of players that we would like to sign would not entertain the idea of coming to us. We need to be able to compete for players signatures with other clubs. 

 

I suppose we need to find a happy balance between wages and bonuses that perhaps give players better incentives to perform.