Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[Kidd’s Boots]

6 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

I slaughtered her yesterday so only fair I come back on and say I was wrong and got the wrong end of the stick. 
 

Hats off to you for that, maybe some others will follow you!

[Guest ToqueJambo]

16 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Yet there was no mention of the investment coming into the club by Benny? 

 

First, why do you persist in painting having benefactors as a bad thing?

Second, maybe the benefactors, like the rest of us, have no interest in paying our players full wages while everyone else takes a haircut. Surely, having potential benefactors who can step in if things get really bad for us down the line is a good thing?

[Footballfirst]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

Can we not just give her a break and support her doing the best to keep a club going for us to support, instead of analysing every turn of phrase? She sounded quite under stress to me. 

 

I'd be delighted to give her some slack and praise her. I think that she is doing a decent job in the circumstances, and I do think that she sounded stressed in the Sportsound interview.  

 

However, I'd prefer that she didn't resort to spin or exaggeration and just stuck to giving the facts.

 

The club has been run with every £1 a prisoner for the last 3 or 4 years, with virtually every £1 spent as it has come in. That is why it has been so exposed in this crisis.  

[Mikey1874]

Raith Rovers Chairman suggested to SPFL / SFA either call leagues with promotions / relegations OR restructure with  no relegation. 

 

Only 9 signed players after June 14. Says Stranraer would have none. 

[Squirt]

5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

They can only accept the contracts put in front of them to be fair. But it does mean they should feel some more obligation to the club, especially the injured players and the ones who know they've badly underperformed.

 

I'm not hammering the players for signing the contracts, who wouldn't? What sticks out to me is that after having signed contracts, having been treated incredibly well, they refuse to reciprocate that gesture. Budge said herself the reason she wanted such a structure because she felt it was only right that a person knows how much money they will be paid each month. They return that gesture by not performing for any manager, not performing for the fans and then arguing that they should still be due their full wages.

 

Mercenaries here for a wage and nothing more. Whilst there will of course be a handful of players that I'm being unfair on, the picture being painted here is clear.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Squirt

[SectionDJambo]

Ann Budge is quite right in trying to protect the non playing staff as much as possible, or even to the detriment of the players.

Players come and go, many of them with little loyalty or feeling for the club. The other staff are, usually, there for the long term, and at nothing like the wage costs of players.

I sincerely hope that any players who are insisting on deferral, when the club cannot predict future revenue streams from football, are not successful in achieving this, and leave the club as soon as possible.

Their attitude reminds me of a phrase that Ryan Stevenson said that JJ used when he first joined Hearts. “Do you realise where you are?”.
Hearts are bigger than any of them, and judging by their wage structure, they are well looked after in normal times.

Maybe too much.

[Mikey1874]

Just now, Squirt said:

 

I'm not hammering the players for signing the contracts, who wouldn't? What sticks out to me is that after having signed contracts, having been treated incredibly well, they refuse to reciprocate that gesture. Budge said herself the reason she wanted such a structure because she felt it was only right that a person knows how much money they will be paid each money. They return that gesture by not performing for any manager, not performing for the fans and then arguing that they should still be due their full wages.

 

Mercenaries here for a wage and nothing more. Whilst there will of course be a handful of players that I'm being unfair on, the picture being painted here is clear.

 

Good point

[The Mighty Thor]

7 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

That's 3 weeks running  he has called out that as a businessman he understands the business side of things.

 

And 3 weeks needing to be corrected business wise.

 

I have definitely heard on one of the 3 previous Saturday Sportsounds what furlough exactly means in terms if no working for employer.

 

He has been on them all.

 

Willie Miller is no stranger to business calamity. 

He probably applied this searing insight to his restaurant empire. 

Surprisingly it went the way of the dodo. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

I'd be delighted to give her some slack and praise her. I think that she is doing a decent job in the circumstances, and I do think that she sounded stressed in the Sportsound interview.  

 

However, I'd prefer that she didn't resort to spin or exaggeration and just stuck to giving the facts.

 

The club has been run with every £1 a prisoner for the last 3 or 4 years, with virtually every £1 spent as it has come in. That is why it has been so exposed in this crisis.  

 

I don't think conflating football debt with other things needing paid is that big a deal, or even if she made a mistake with recalling the exact "football debt" under pressure. I certainly didn't hear it as spin. Spin involves a lot of forethought and a certain level of deviousness. Sounds to me like she's just trying to keep things together.

 

Everyone is exposed in this crisis. Budge has run as as a club living within our means while still trying to live up to the very, very high expectations of our very, very demanding fanbase, or a large section of it.

 

Sadly the players signed by the managers she backed financially didn't live up to expectations, nor did half of the managers either. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Horatio Caine]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Willie Miller is no stranger to business calamity. 

He probably applied this searing insight to his restaurant empire. 

Surprisingly it went the way of the dodo. 

What kind of `small business` is he running now?

[john5698]

14 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Perhaps she means this:

 

Those requirements include FoH injecting £1m into the club as soon as BIDCO take control for working capital and plugging funding gaps, including the payment of £535,000 of football debts which must be cleared to keep their SFA licence.

 

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/latest-hearts-news/hearts-takeover-it-millionaire-bankrolls-deal-1545081

 

Can we not just give her a break and support her doing the best to keep a club going for us to support, instead of analysing every turn of phrase? She sounded quite under stress to me. 

exactly, too many on here ready to pounce on anything that can be misconstrued. 

[DETTY29]

I don't see any comments on here since Sportsound started so I hope haven't misheard.

 

It was mentioned Sky and BT have paid out all their dues to SPFL who haven't apportioned.

 

Two following up questions which would have been helpful.

 

1.Is this full and final or up to date?

 

2. Are there claw back clauses?

 

Amateurs.  

Edited April 4, 2020 by DETTY29

[luckydug]

12 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Perhaps she means this:

 

Those requirements include FoH injecting £1m into the club as soon as BIDCO take control for working capital and plugging funding gaps, including the payment of £535,000 of football debts which must be cleared to keep their SFA licence.

 

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/latest-hearts-news/hearts-takeover-it-millionaire-bankrolls-deal-1545081

 

Can we not just give her a break and support her doing the best to keep a club going for us to support, instead of analysing every turn of phrase? She sounded quite under stress to me. 

This ! 

The pedants and bean counters like their pound of flesh though. 

It was common knowledge that Hearts needed a million cash to get the club running again and that included football debts. One word out of place and the pedants and amateur accountants swoop. 

 

[DETTY29]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Willie Miller is no stranger to business calamity. 

He probably applied this searing insight to his restaurant empire. 

Surprisingly it went the way of the dodo. 

Can't make a success out a fish and chip shop cash business?

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Squirt said:

 

I'm not hammering the players for signing the contracts, who wouldn't? What sticks out to me is that after having signed contracts, having been treated incredibly well, they refuse to reciprocate that gesture. Budge said herself the reason she wanted such a structure because she felt it was only right that a person knows how much money they will be paid each month. They return that gesture by not performing for any manager, not performing for the fans and then arguing that they should still be due their full wages.

 

Mercenaries here for a wage and nothing more. Whilst there will of course be a handful of players that I'm being unfair on, the picture being painted here is clear.

Absolutely.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Willie Miller is no stranger to business calamity. 

He probably applied this searing insight to his restaurant empire. 

Surprisingly it went the way of the dodo. 

 

When he was Aberdeen manager he nearly got them relegated for the first time ever. When he was on Aberdeen's board they went from finishing 4th regularly to finishing 8th or 9th regularly. When he was their Director of Football, they finished 9th.

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

I don't see any comments on here since Sportsound started so I hope haven't misheard.

 

It was mentioned Sky and BT have paid out all their dues to SPFL who haven't apportioned.

 

Two following up questions which would have been helpful.

 

1.Is this full and final or up to date?

 

2. Are there claw back clauses?

 

Amateurs.  

 

Might have fulfilled the agreement on payment dates. 

 

Depends on contract for paying back. Might be a factor in money not being given to clubs. 

[Beast Boy]

Usual honest and direct approach from Ann Budge. It’s funny that people are always a bit surprised by this. I think what happens is there is so much utter guff waffled in between the statements and interviews, people eventually start to listen to the waffle, and forget about the actual content of the statements themselves. Then by the time she speaks again, everyone is again surprised at how honest and direct she is.

 

Over to the waffle-merchants now. Stage is yours...

Edited April 4, 2020 by Special Officer Doofy

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Can't make a success out a fish and chip shop cash business?

 

On the beachfront, in one of the richest cities in the country.

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

I don't see any comments on here since Sportsound started so I hope haven't misheard.

 

Sky and BT have paid out all their dues to SPFL who haven't apportioned.

 

Two following up questions which would have been helpful.

 

1.Is this full and final or up to date?

 

2. Are there claw back clauses?

 

Amateurs.  

Yeah it does seem a bit foolish, Canal + due £200m of £600m deal to Ligue 1 and reluctant to pay out. What I picked up was the SPFL/SFA haven’t paid out the money they’ve received yet, why is the question I would like them to answer. If it is in case of paying it back then I think should hand it out.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[pointon]

I wish she would name and shame those not prepared to take a cut

[Last Laff]

29 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Wouldn't have stopped them asking probing questions to Cormack. That was never going to happen though as Aberdeen above questioning.

What probing questions was there to ask Cormack? He was clear on all aspects. 

[luckydug]

22 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

I slaughtered her yesterday so only fair I come back on and say I was wrong and got the wrong end of the stick. 
 

My take: 

The players are suspended so the club is working to save them from article 12, not threatening them with it, was how I took what she said. Some players have agreed to cuts, varying in %, some are still mulling it over and some aren’t willing to speak about anything other than deferral. I’d imagine that’ll not be unique to hearts and it sounds like we are getting closer to a solution. Staff have been overwhelmingly supported by the club and everything we seem to be doing is more focused on keeping them in jobs rather than keeping the players happy, a stance I like. Not hoping for miracles or hoping to be kept a float by investment groups etc, working still

towards handing over the club to the fans debt free. 
 

She seemed to have acknowledged that this big wage small bonus set up probably isn’t the right approach. Preston right to acknowledge that she has backed every manager and the position we find ourselves in, in terms of huge squad etc isn’t her fault entirely. 
 

Interesting to hear them discussing the fact that we can’t expect players to train and stay fit during the furloughed period due to the legal stance of them being furloughed. I wondered if some clubs have missed this. 
 

I am not a huge fan of the open and honest, doing our dirty laundry in public policy that we have under Budge but fair play to her for sticking to it. Nothing is hidden from us and wether you agree fully with what and how she works, I don’t doubt for a second she does it for the good of us. 
 

Well done Budge. 

Like you my big bugbear is using the Govt scheme to top up players wages. 

If it is the case that they can't be furloughed while taking a wage then we are back to 50%. Amiright ? 

Anyway if AB is correct we have no obligation to give them anything 😁

[Last Laff]

17 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

First, why do you persist in painting having benefactors as a bad thing?

Second, maybe the benefactors, like the rest of us, have no interest in paying our players full wages while everyone else takes a haircut. Surely, having potential benefactors who can step in if things get really bad for us down the line is a good thing?

I don’t paint it as a bad thing at all. it’s a tremendous thing and has really helped the club.  
 

It’s being completely ignored though when saying there’s no investment. 

[Last Laff]

22 minutes ago, luckydug said:

She mentioned benefactors and fans contributions early on in the conversation. 

If you are looking for figures that's never going to happen. 

It’s a significant amount being put in from the benefactors though, it kind of eliminates pleading poverty because the club can’t get investment like Aberdeen or Hibs.  Especially when it’s been reported before that the benefactors have put money in to secure players on high wages in the past. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Last Laff

[gaza_1986]

10 minutes ago, pointon said:

I wish she would name and shame those not prepared to take a cut

Extremely unprofessional to do so. 

[soonbe110]

37 minutes ago, Crete said:

I have a lot of time for Mcinnes decent guy.

Next manager in all probability imo 

[JamboAl]

30 minutes ago, luckydug said:

She mentioned benefactors and fans contributions early on in the conversation. 

If you are looking for figures that's never going to happen. 

He's looking for anything to slaughter us with.

[soonbe110]

39 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

I slaughtered her yesterday so only fair I come back on and say I was wrong and got the wrong end of the stick. 
 

My take: 

The players are suspended so the club is working to save them from article 12, not threatening them with it, was how I took what she said. Some players have agreed to cuts, varying in %, some are still mulling it over and some aren’t willing to speak about anything other than deferral. I’d imagine that’ll not be unique to hearts and it sounds like we are getting closer to a solution. Staff have been overwhelmingly supported by the club and everything we seem to be doing is more focused on keeping them in jobs rather than keeping the players happy, a stance I like. Not hoping for miracles or hoping to be kept a float by investment groups etc, working still

towards handing over the club to the fans debt free. 
 

She seemed to have acknowledged that this big wage small bonus set up probably isn’t the right approach. Preston right to acknowledge that she has backed every manager and the position we find ourselves in, in terms of huge squad etc isn’t her fault entirely. 
 

Interesting to hear them discussing the fact that we can’t expect players to train and stay fit during the furloughed period due to the legal stance of them being furloughed. I wondered if some clubs have missed this. 
 

I am not a huge fan of the open and honest, doing our dirty laundry in public policy that we have under Budge but fair play to her for sticking to it. Nothing is hidden from us and wether you agree fully with what and how she works, I don’t doubt for a second she does it for the good of us. 
 

Well done Budge. 

👍👍

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

He's probably gone through about three tubs of KY Jelly and a box of Kleenex King Size by now. 

 

 

Tbf, in the past two weeks I knock "them" figures out the park. 

 

[luckydug]

14 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

It’s a significant amount being put in from the benefactors though, it kind of eliminates pleading poverty because the club can’t get investment like Aberdeen or Hibs.  Especially when it’s been reported before that the benefactors have put money in to secure players on high wages in the past. 

Perhaps the benefactors dont fancy the idea of wasting money just to placate a bunch of wasters ? 

[soonbe110]

31 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I don't think conflating football debt with other things needing paid is that big a deal, or even if she made a mistake with recalling the exact "football debt" under pressure. I certainly didn't hear it as spin. Spin involves a lot of forethought and a certain level of deviousness. Sounds to me like she's just trying to keep things together.

 

Everyone is exposed in this crisis. Budge has run as as a club living within our means while still trying to live up to the very, very high expectations of our very, very demanding fanbase, or a large section of it.

 

Sadly the players signed by the managers she backed financially didn't live up to expectations, nor did half of the managers either. 

👍

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

Jesus wept. My feckin dead hamster could sell fish suppers in that fleapit.

 

Sums up the baldy wank.

[Bazzas right boot]

12 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

How's yer eyesight ? 

 

 

40/40

[Guest ToqueJambo]

39 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

It’s a significant amount being put in from the benefactors though, it kind of eliminates pleading poverty because the club can’t get investment like Aberdeen or Hibs.  Especially when it’s been reported before that the benefactors have put money in to secure players on high wages in the past. 

Investors implies they’ll want something back. Their investment plus interest for example. Or shares and a say. Our benefactors are more like FoH contributors. Big difference.

Edited April 4, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Fozzyonthefence]

54 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah it does seem a bit foolish, Canal + due £200m of £600m deal to Ligue 1 and reluctant to pay out. What I picked up was the SPFL/SFA haven’t paid out the money they’ve received yet, why is the question I would like them to answer. If it is in case of paying it back then I think should hand it out.

Presumably haven’t paid it out yet as they haven’t determined the final league placing a yet.  And as suggested earlier,  there may be a chance of some claw back.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Fozzyonthefence

[The Roller]

50 minutes ago, gaza_1986 said:

Extremely unprofessional to do so. 

It’d be in fitting with said players performances for the last 2 years then.

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Presumably haven’t paid it out yet as they haven’t determined the final league placing a yet.  And as suggested earlier,  there may be a chance of some claw back.

They could give an interim payment of a certain amount to help clubs, it’s seems strange that it’s been it’s been paid out so early. The Raith chairman sounded a bit doubtful of clubs surviving this and I’m sure they welcome the money.There’s bound to be a good reason, it’s the SFA/SPFL after all . 

[Pasquale for King]

55 minutes ago, gaza_1986 said:

Extremely unprofessional to do so. 

She could thank the ones that have, it’s  still not been leaked to the Sun yet 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️.

[Mikey1874]

 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Last Laff said:

What probing questions was there to ask Cormack? He was clear on all aspects. 

Wasn't clear on the stadium, was he?

[Fozzyonthefence]

12 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

They could give an interim payment of a certain amount to help clubs, it’s seems strange that it’s been it’s been paid out so early. The Raith chairman sounded a bit doubtful of clubs surviving this and I’m sure they welcome the money.There’s bound to be a good reason, it’s the SFA/SPFL after all . 

They could have done but that would have involved making a decisive decision.  There’s noises now that they’re looking to call the league placings final as they are so the money may get distributed soon.  
 

I  didn’t hear Raith chairman.  I would have thought it would be easier for clubs that size as surely they can furlough all of their staff?  But I’m not sure how long the government will pay this for?

Edited April 4, 2020 by Fozzyonthefence

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

Wasn't clear on the stadium, was he?

Nope, but the Laff wouldn't pick up on that as doesn't suit agenda. Only criticise Hearts while bumming up the rest. Supported by two or three posters (or other logins) while ignored by rest. 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

They could have done but that would have involved making a decisive decision.  There’s noises now that they’re looking to call the league placings final as they are so the money may get distributed soon.  
 

I  didn’t hear Raith chairman.  I would have thought it would be easier for clubs that size as surely they can furlough all of their staff?  But I’m not sure how long the government will pay this for?

He was quite revealing about their situation, how they had crowdfunded £55k. They have used Furlough but seem to want to also pay the other 20% which doesn’t seem that great an idea. He also says they can’t sell season tickets or their new strips as they don’t know what league they will be in, they may have to do that though. He asked his supporters to look after themselves first and foremost. 
The SFA/SPFL must be under pressure to pay something to the clubs, I think Budge there’s another meeting arranged for Wednesday, she also laughed off the DR story about relegating us.

[Hungry hippo]

1 hour ago, pointon said:

I wish she would name and shame those not prepared to take a cut

 

All in good time. It's fair enough to allow the players time to consider the circumstances given the impact a wage reduction would have on anyone.

 

There will be a time in the not too distant future when a decision needs to be made. Given the players' contracts are apparently already effectively suspended I suppose it could drag on until their next pay is due but expect it is in everyone's interests to draw a line in the sand at some point in the near future.

 

[OTT]

1 hour ago, gaza_1986 said:

Extremely unprofessional to do so. 

 

Thats why you thank the ones who have chosen to do the right thing. Let everyone else join the dots. 

 

Naisy & Clevid have done the right thing so far. Seems there are 20 that are refusing/ wanting deferrals so its a fair shout to throw a dart and you'll probably be right on whose being a shithead about it. 

 

Total summer clear out pls. Don't want to see another one of these shysters take a penny more from the club.  

Edited April 4, 2020 by OTT

[luckydug]

8 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Nope, but the Laff wouldn't pick up on that as doesn't suit agenda. Only criticise Hearts while bumming up the rest. Supported by two or three posters (or other logins) while ignored by rest. 

He's just a ****ing pest. 

Spoiling the thread imo👇

[HMFC01]

2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Fact check - AB on Sportsound - Hearts did not have £1m of football debts when AB took over. It was approx £535k

 

From the CVA proposal: 

FoH (or its nominee) will assume responsibility for settling the outstanding "football debts" of HoM plc, which are understood to be in region of £535,000.

She didn't say 1 mill she said "the best part of 1 million".  When I heard it I thought (why can't these/she gits not just be accurate).  35k over 500k is the best part of a mill, geez.  I was thinking it was closer maybe 750k there-abouts.  

 

Thanks for pointing out correct fact though, leaves us to wonder less.

[Hungry hippo]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

 

Thats why you thank the ones who have chosen to do the right thing. Let everyone else join the dots. 

 

Not fair on those that are weighing things up right now though so we'll need to wait.

[Gorillajam]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Next manager in all probability imo 

Next manager where?