Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[jackal]

I would love to know what our basic wage is in comparison to other clubs. Now we know our basic is higher than most its no surprise other teams can furlough players or defer payment rather than ask them to take wage cuts. How much are these players taking home after pay cut? I bet its still more than players at other teams.

I understand the reason for AB making the basic wage higher but it hasnt helped us one bit and seems some players dont care one bit and just want their cash. It just shows there is no point in pampering players and trying to be fair when some just turn round and boot you in the balls.

I wouldnt say any player we have signed is so special they needed a higher basic just to play for us.

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

12 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Thats why you thank the ones who have chosen to do the right thing. Let everyone else join the dots. 

 

Naisy & Clevid have done the right thing so far. Seems there are 20 that are refusing/ wanting deferrals so its a fair shout to throw a dart and you'll probably be right on whose being a shithead about it. 

 

Total summer clear out pls. Don't want to see another one of these shysters take a penny more from the club.  

If the 20 player thing is true, that’s the majority of the first team squad.   Very disappointing it true.

[OTT]

11 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

Not fair on those that are weighing things up right now though so we'll need to wait.

 

Really don't think they should be weighing anything up. 

 

Most supporters will have been stuck on furlough by their employers - many of which have no interest in topping up the 20% they will lose out on. For some godforsaken reason we decided on high basic low incentives - the club has been unbelievably good to these players and almost none of them appear willing to do the decent thing off their own back. 

 

Nobody else is getting the choice to defer wages in any other industry/ profession, or opt to go on furlough. This decision is being made for most people. In most cases the 20% your losing through this is lost - gone. These shitehouses still feel entitled to their full 100% which will be collected through the fans who are losing 20% of their already significantly lower wages. 

 

Lets actually be real for a moment. These players are earning easily a minimum of £2k p/w. They aren't going to lose their houses, cars, not be able to put food on the table. The only sacrifice their being asked to make is to maybe not be able to go on holiday to Dubai next year.

 

Its actually disgusting and a little bit of pressure on the ones that do actually have a shred of decency might be whats needed. 

[Koolkeith]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Ann saying putting players on higher basic wage is the fairer thing to do. 

No wonder they haven’t tried a leg if they a get a higher wage and lower win bonus. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

27 minutes ago, HMFC01 said:

She didn't say 1 mill she said "the best part of 1 million".  When I heard it I thought (why can't these/she gits not just be accurate).  35k over 500k is the best part of a mill, geez.  I was thinking it was closer maybe 750k there-abouts.  

 

Thanks for pointing out correct fact though, leaves us to wonder less.

Glad you’re not my accountant!

[ramrod]

I'm surprised players like Haring or Souttar haven't came out and said they're accepting a pay cut , they're been getting money  for doing **** all for the best part of a year . 

[Malinga the Swinga]

I see Liverpool coming under criticism from their own staff as well as  ex players like Carragher. Really is frustrating when clubs such as them and Spurs take advantage of a scheme set up to help businesses survive the downturn. 

 

Before anyone jumps in, I know we are doing the same but don't think we have same turnover as these clubs. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, ramrod said:

I'm surprised players like Haring or Souttar haven't came out and said they're accepting a pay cut , they're been getting money  for doing **** all for the best part of a year . 

Souttar about half of his time here, Haring more than that. Not their fault obviously but you are correct.

[Pasquale for King]

23 minutes ago, jackal said:

I would love to know what our basic wage is in comparison to other clubs. Now we know our basic is higher than most its no surprise other teams can furlough players or defer payment rather than ask them to take wage cuts. How much are these players taking home after pay cut? I bet its still more than players at other teams.

I understand the reason for AB making the basic wage higher but it hasnt helped us one bit and seems some players dont care one bit and just want their cash. It just shows there is no point in pampering players and trying to be fair when some just turn round and boot you in the balls.

I wouldnt say any player we have signed is so special they needed a higher basic just to play for us.

 

We won’t have across the board basic wage as such, here’s our average wage as of February (if you trust the link that’s been quoted everywhere and never proven wrong,obviously).

[Pasquale for King]

22 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

If the 20 player thing is true, that’s the majority of the first team squad.   Very disappointing it true.

Just, 38 first team players including alleged PHM like Berra.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I see Liverpool coming under criticism from their own staff as well as  ex players like Carragher. Really is frustrating when clubs such as them and Spurs take advantage of a scheme set up to help businesses survive the downturn. 

 

Before anyone jumps in, I know we are doing the same but don't think we have same turnover as these clubs. 

To be fair, Jordan Henderson seems to be at the forefront of organising something amongst all the PL players, not just his club.

 

I agree re these mega rich clubs furloughing non playing staff doesn’t sit right but you have to blame their owners for that, not the players.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Just, 38 first team players including alleged PHM like Berra.

That’s a ridiculous amount!  Especially when you consider Aston Villa won a league title using only 14 players all season!

[Last Laff]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

Investors implies they’ll want something back. Their investment plus interest for example. Or shares and a say. Our benefactors are more like FoH contributors. Big difference.

Yes there is a big difference, as in the benefactors are putting millions in without wanting a return.  That’s a massive advantage over investors so I’ve no idea why she’s going on about not having investors like other clubs When trying to justify why there are wage cuts and not deferrals when we have fully benefitted from millions of £ from a mystery benefactor.

[Last Laff]

1 hour ago, luckydug said:

Perhaps the benefactors dont fancy the idea of wasting money just to placate a bunch of wasters ? 

Neither would investors though which is what she’s saying Aberdeen and Hibs have. 

[luckydug]

1 minute ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

Not fair on those that are weighing things up right now though so we'll need to wait.

Wouldn't be surprised if it's not resolved and shit hits the fan when pay cheques are due. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Wouldn't be surprised if it's not resolved and shit hits the fan when pay cheques are due. 

Hopefully👍

[Guest ToqueJambo]

13 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Yes there is a big difference, as in the benefactors are putting millions in without wanting a return.  That’s a massive advantage over investors so I’ve no idea why she’s going on about not having investors like other clubs When trying to justify why there are wage cuts and not deferrals when we have fully benefitted from millions of £ from a mystery benefactor.

 

Yes, which is a good thing. And not only that but she told how she has rejected a number of investors so we can remain fan owned.

 

You seem to have a problem with differentiating between the past and present. 

 

Aberdeen have just taken in money from investors to help see them through. They will want something back (otherwise they are benefactors). They are not and don't plan to be fan owned. 

 

Our benefactors put money in at various times over the last few years to help pay for specific things. They have not asked for anything in return. So we remain fan owned.

 

They are not putting money in right now that we know of but might well if it's needed to save the club. I'm assuming, like most fans, they don't have much appetite for chipping in just so players can continue to get all their money now or later.

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

19 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Neither would investors though which is what she’s saying Aberdeen and Hibs have. 

 

Clearly those investors are happy with paying full wages, just deferring them, including Cormack and Gordon! Mad if you ask me.

 

Worth pointing out that Aberdeen are postponing/cancelling their stadium plans. If this had hit when they were on the hook for that.... that's the difference between the responsible way Budge has got things done for us, and the willingness of other clubs, like Aberdeen, to go into enormous debt and/or to sell their club and future to the likes of Gordon.

Edited April 4, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[jackal]

27 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

We won’t have across the board basic wage as such, here’s our average wage as of February (if you trust the link that’s been quoted everywhere and never proven wrong,obviously).

I understand that wont be exact but if that includes bonuses its bad enough but if that doesnt include bonuses thats a shocking amount. As I said earlier I wonder how much they are being offered in comparison to other teams first team players from Aberdeen or Hibs.

Its all very well saying yes we will defer wages but if they are getting 1k a week compared to us payink 2.5k a week on average you cant expect to defer that.

I think clubs will add a minimum pay for these things in future contracts god forbid it happens again.

I understand AB wanting to give evryone a secure footing as she done with the living wage but it now shows there is no point in trying to please some players. Basic pay needs to be brought back and a higher l payments made for players injured who cant get bonus payments.

[luckydug]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Yes, which is a good thing. And not only that but she told how she has rejected a number of investors so we can remain fan owned.

 

You seem to have a problem with differentiating between the past and present. 

 

Aberdeen have just taken in money from investors to help see them through. They will want something back (otherwise they are benefactors). They are not and don't plan to be fan owned. 

 

Our benefactors put money in at various times over the last few years to help pay for specific things. They have not asked for anything in return. So we remain fan owned.

 

They are not putting money in right now that we know of but might well if it's needed to save the club. I'm assuming, like most fans, they don't have much appetite for chipping in just so players can continue to get all their money now or later.

 

Good explanation. 

I particularly agree with your last paragraph. 

When this wages thing is sorted and players are either accepting the cuts or have been dealt with as per article 12

then I'm sure the club will get plenty help from the fans who can afford to chip in. 

That's the deal though imo not a penny until we know the players are doing their bit. 

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, jackal said:

I understand that wont be exact but if that includes bonuses its bad enough but if that doesnt include bonuses thats a shocking amount. As I said earlier I wonder how much they are being offered in comparison to other teams first team players from Aberdeen or Hibs.

Its all very well saying yes we will defer wages but if they are getting 1k a week compared to us payink 2.5k a week on average you cant expect to defer that.

I think clubs will add a minimum pay for these things in future contracts god forbid it happens again.

I understand AB wanting to give evryone a secure footing as she done with the living wage but it now shows there is no point in trying to please some players. Basic pay needs to be brought back and a higher l payments made for players injured who cant get bonus payments.

I think if players are injured then they should have a basic like the rest of us do we when we can’t physically work, the real world might well be around the corner for everyone in football and a not a moment too soon.

She mentioned deferrals again today and why we want to cut players wages, which seems the sensible thing to do. I think when she spoke about the wage structure being different for must clubs she must have some insight, the evidence seems to show that our team are the softest team in the league.

[Mikey1874]

35 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That’s a ridiculous amount!  Especially when you consider Aston Villa won a league title using only 14 players all season!

 

Celtic and Hearts both have played 35 or 36 players this season 

[Hungry hippo]

53 minutes ago, ramrod said:

I'm surprised players like Haring or Souttar haven't came out and said they're accepting a pay cut , they're been getting money  for doing **** all for the best part of a year . 

 

I expect they will agree to it but you wouldn't expect everyone to announce their decisions on an individual basis. Naismith would have been asked to make his decision public given he is a leader figure in the hope it would inspire others to follow.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

44 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That’s a ridiculous amount!  Especially when you consider Aston Villa won a league title using only 14 players all season!

 

Injuries are a factor here. Not sure what Celtic's excuse for playing nearly as many. More games maybe.

[Squirt]

26 minutes ago, jackal said:

I understand that wont be exact but if that includes bonuses its bad enough but if that doesnt include bonuses thats a shocking amount. As I said earlier I wonder how much they are being offered in comparison to other teams first team players from Aberdeen or Hibs.

Its all very well saying yes we will defer wages but if they are getting 1k a week compared to us payink 2.5k a week on average you cant expect to defer that.

I think clubs will add a minimum pay for these things in future contracts god forbid it happens again.

I understand AB wanting to give evryone a secure footing as she done with the living wage but it now shows there is no point in trying to please some players. Basic pay needs to be brought back and a higher l payments made for players injured who cant get bonus payments.

I remember when Boyce signed, the manager of Burton Albion came out and said when he told them what Hearts were offering it just blew them out the water completely and there was no point even trying to negotiate because they wouldn’t get close. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Squirt
Burton Albion, not Burnley!

[jackal]

12 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think if players are injured then they should have a basic like the rest of us do we when we can’t physically work, the real world might well be around the corner for everyone in football and a not a moment too soon.

She mentioned deferrals again today and why we want to cut players wages, which seems the sensible thing to do. I think when she spoke about the wage structure being different for must clubs she must have some insight, the evidence seems to show that our team are the softest team in the league.

Maybe the injury payment wouldnt be a good idea but we have to get away from this high basic. It has shown you get nothing extra by trying to be nice and maybe players would be able to budget like the rest of us.

Fair enough defer if your basic is low but even then I bet it is still more than most people will earn.

[blairdin]

I don't know if anybody knows this but chucking it out there. 

 

What's the potential impact on the players/player contracts if the league is concluded and we're relegated - are relegation clauses in the contracts fairly standard? Is it a release or a wage reduction?

 

If any players be in danger of being released if we're relegated, then I can understand a reflectance to accept a pay reduction at this time. 

 

[HMFC01]

I think unless you're looking at the individual contracts yourself you wont fully know what to expect. 

 

I think if there is a relegation clause with an option for another to club to take them for free then it's for free.  Unless the contracts are concluded before it's activated then it would still be free.  

 

That makes sense to me.  That's from playing Football manager 😀  I think from the said game you could set transfer values as well but not sure if that's possible in the real world.

[ramrod]

8 minutes ago, blairdin said:

I don't know if anybody knows this but chucking it out there. 

 

What's the potential impact on the players/player contracts if the league is concluded and we're relegated - are relegation clauses in the contracts fairly standard? Is it a release or a wage reduction?

 

If any players be in danger of being released if we're relegated, then I can understand a reflectance to accept a pay reduction at this time. 

 

Looking at how incompetent Levein has been with signings and contracts I wouldnt be surprised in the least if he's managed to shaft the club re relegation clauses as well 

[Last Laff]

51 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Clearly those investors are happy with paying full wages, just deferring them, including Cormack and Gordon! Mad if you ask me.

 

Worth pointing out that Aberdeen are postponing/cancelling their stadium plans. If this had hit when they were on the hook for that.... that's the difference between the responsible way Budge has got things done for us, and the willingness of other clubs, like Aberdeen, to go into enormous debt and/or to sell their club and future to the likes of Gordon.

I’m not sure I agree with the responsible approach from Budge.  It’s clearly not happened yet with the squad at this time.  She also said there was very little choice because of the way she has the wage structure. 

[Pasquale for King]

27 minutes ago, jackal said:

Maybe the injury payment wouldnt be a good idea but we have to get away from this high basic. It has shown you get nothing extra by trying to be nice and maybe players would be able to budget like the rest of us.

Fair enough defer if your basic is low but even then I bet it is still more than most people will earn.

Absolutely, it would teach them how to budget which they will need to learn at some point. Why some of them think they should be the only people not working and on full pay is unbelievable.

[JamboAl]

5 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

I’m not sure I agree with the responsible approach from Budge.  It’s clearly not happened yet with the squad at this time.  She also said there was very little choice because of the way she has the wage structure. 

You don't.

In fact you don't agree with anything she does.

[Pasquale for King]

20 minutes ago, HMFC01 said:

I think unless you're looking at the individual contracts yourself you wont fully know what to expect. 

 

I think if there is a relegation clause with an option for another to club to take them for free then it's for free.  Unless the contracts are concluded before it's activated then it would still be free.  

 

That makes sense to me.  That's from playing Football manager 😀  I think from the said game you could set transfer values as well but not sure if that's possible in the real world.

I sincerely hope any relegation clauses don’t rely on someone taking them off our hands for us to get rid of them 🙈.

[HMFC01]

Ha!  Good point.  That's just about sickened me! 

 

I am not sure if they can be just let go as a free agent.  Like i pointed out before, you need to be looking at the contract to know.

[Pasquale for King]

31 minutes ago, blairdin said:

I don't know if anybody knows this but chucking it out there. 

 

What's the potential impact on the players/player contracts if the league is concluded and we're relegated - are relegation clauses in the contracts fairly standard? Is it a release or a wage reduction?

 

If any players be in danger of being released if we're relegated, then I can understand a reflectance to accept a pay reduction at this time. 

 

Is it raining where you are? Dry in Gorgie.

 

It seems all contracts have relegation clauses, and in Scotland a clause about suspending wages it would seem.

 

Its a good point about the players being worried about being relegated and released, but they’re pretty much at fault for that. If you or I perform badly we will be sacked, as I’ve said the real world is somewhere these guys might just be experiencing in the near future.

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, HMFC01 said:

Ha!  Good point.  That's just about sickened me! 

 

I am not sure if they can be just let go as a free agent.  Like i pointed out before, you need to be looking at the contract to know.

Yeah pretty much, is there a pay off for example or a reduction in wages if they stay. I suppose if we go down you’ve got to hope we can keep hold of the important guys.

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

We won’t have across the board basic wage as such, here’s our average wage as of February (if you trust the link that’s been quoted everywhere and never proven wrong,obviously).

I don't trust the link.

End of.

[Fozzyonthefence]

46 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Injuries are a factor here. Not sure what Celtic's excuse for playing nearly as many. More games maybe.

Having shite players and other players not playing as well as they should be is a much bigger factor than injuries.  

[Fozzyonthefence]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Is it raining where you are? Dry in Gorgie.

 

It seems all contracts have relegation clauses, and in Scotland a clause about suspending wages it would seem.

 

Its a good point about the players being worried about being relegated and released, but they’re pretty much at fault for that. If you or I perform badly we will be sacked, as I’ve said the real world is somewhere these guys might just be experiencing in the near future.

Yet, after a horrendous year and a half almost, all they had to do was beat St Mirren and they would probably be safe from relegation.

 

Most of these players don’t deserve to walk into another job.  Not as professional footballers anyway.

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Yet, after a horrendous year and a half almost, all they had to do was beat St Mirren and they would probably be safe from relegation.

 

Most of these players don’t deserve to walk into another job.  Not as professional footballers anyway.

Yeah pretty much, I think their fitness was an issue. Good against Rangers, then Hibs, leggy v Mwell and hopeless v St Midden in the space of 11 days. I think if we’d offered them a big bonus to win in Paisley it might’ve seen a victory. All speculation of course before anyone jumps down my throat. 
I really can’t see us surviving if the games have to be played, with this squad.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Guest ToqueJambo]

31 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

I’m not sure I agree with the responsible approach from Budge.  It’s clearly not happened yet with the squad at this time.  She also said there was very little choice because of the way she has the wage structure. 

 

You think going into debt and/or selling to a foreign owner with unknown motivations is the way ahead for a club like ours? Bold.

 

I think Aberdeen, us and Hibs will come out of this in pretty solid shape, but the other two will have greatly reduced cash reserves and fan donations all spent in their effort to continue to pay players their full salaries. And their budget will be reduced the first season back due to having to pay deferred wages.

 

We, however, will not be on the hook for millions in wages payable to players who may not even be under contract to us anymore. We'll be able to pick up with whatever is left of the squad and a decent number of young players with first team experience and build from there. That's assuming we don't end up having to defer wages, which I hope is the case.

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[HMFC01]

31 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah pretty much, is there a pay off for example or a reduction in wages if they stay. I suppose if we go down you’ve got to hope we can keep hold of the important guys.

 

Going by Fitba' manager again.  You had option to have a % wage drop if relegated.  No idea about a pay-off.  I think only 2 players have commented about wanting to stay at hearts Naisy  and Clevid.

 

In the game when a player wanted a relegation release clause it was  mostly for players that are too good for your club or thought a lot of them selves (dis-loyal).  Also though it's to protect your club going into admin' as well, so the bit you mentioned about a standard contract has a rele' release seems fair.  Also the Article 12 bit helps clubs as well.

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, HMFC01 said:

 

Going by Fitba' manager again.  You had option to have a % wage drop if relegated.  No idea about a pay-off.  I think only 2 players have commented about wanting to stay at hearts Naisy  and Clevid.

 

In the game when a player wanted a relegation release clause it was  mostly for players that are too good for your club or thought a lot of them selves (dis-loyal).  Also though it's to protect your club going into admin' as well, so the bit you mentioned about a standard contract has a rele' release seems fair.  Also the Article 12 bit helps clubs as well.

If we’ve negotiated a release clause for both sides in the managers contract then hopefully we have with the players. If we have to start again like we did in 2014 then so be it. 

[blairdin]

43 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Is it raining where you are? Dry in Gorgie.

 

It seems all contracts have relegation clauses, and in Scotland a clause about suspending wages it would seem.

 

Its a good point about the players being worried about being relegated and released, but they’re pretty much at fault for that. If you or I perform badly we will be sacked, as I’ve said the real world is somewhere these guys might just be experiencing in the near future.

 

Ha ha, dry here! 

 

Just to be clear, I'll shed no tears for any of those imposters who find themselves free if the worst happens and we are relegated. They're at fault and then some. 

[HMFC01]

Yeah that 2  sided contract is an interesting 1.  You have on 1 side the club protecting them selves from admin' and then the other wanting to be a free agent perhaps.  Yeah hope we can keep the ones Stendel mentioned about experience.

 

Back to the first point.  The club might've wanted to keep their options open also if they thought the manager was pants.

Edited April 4, 2020 by HMFC01

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, blairdin said:

 

Ha ha, dry here! 

 

Just to be clear, I'll shed no tears for any of those imposters who find themselves free if the worst happens and we are relegated. They're at fault and then some. 

Yeah me neither mate.

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, HMFC01 said:

Yeah that 2  sided contract is an interesting 1.  You have on 1 side the club protecting them selves from admin' and then the other wanting to be a free agent perhaps.  Yeah hope we can keep the ones Stendel mentioned about experience.

 

Back to the first point.  The club might've wanted to keep their options open also if they thought the manager was pants.

Yeah there’s no criticism from me, much like a lot of what Stevdel brings it reeks of professionalism and just common sense.

[soonbe110]

5 hours ago, Gorillajam said:

Next manager where?

Us

[Mikey1874]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p088pj8s

 

28.14 for Ann Budge today 

[HMFC01]

Yeah I just went over it again. 

 

She was sounding a bit stretched and unsure at times about the contract issues.  Soon as they mentioned us possibly getting relegated, she pepped up and sounded more staunch and strong in her point that they wont get away with-out legal action.  

 

I am still angry about the wasters getting paid and still wanting a deferral.  Even though they don't have to get paid.  Sickens me!  Complete cheek going to the PFA, seems like they don't trust the club.  PFA got a cheek asking for account records as well.  Still no apology from the SPFA for letting Anne take the brunt of the article 12 abuse.  Might have missed that last one, but don't think they did.