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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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IronJambo
3 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Maybe read why he posted it first. Or just go SNP bad like the 2 loonies on here

I read it. He's basically said it was irrelevant. 

 

Edit: that aside, it doesn't really demonstrate a lot. The figures are very muchy muchy with the odd spike.

Edited by IronJambo
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29 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

People will vote for what they believe in, it's how democracy works. But it feels like a lot more people are voting with their hearts than their heads and that worries me.

I've thought about quite a bit over the last 15-16 years, there is no other viable option. For me the status quo and Devolution has not solved any of the issues. 

 

26 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

So you're saying that the poll you posted has no relevance to today? Odd you would post it to demonstrate anything in that case.

:vrface:

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13 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

I read it. He's basically said it was irrelevant. 

 

Edit: that aside, it doesn't really demonstrate a lot. The figures are very muchy muchy with the odd spike.

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Hunky Dory
4 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

 

There's the issue infecting all of British politics. Single issue blinkers.

 

Be it Brexit or Indy2 or whatever, people can't see past that one issue and see the bigger picture. If the SNP did a better job of running this country, you'd see a much, much bigger support for Indy. As it stands, there are enough people who see through that one issue and don't vote for them because all they have is empty rhetoric.

 

"Look at the potential Scotland has".

 

Or, just a thought, you could do better for this country yourselves and more people would believe in this potential you keep speaking of.

 

 

Much like the narrative of "SNP bad = BritNat" that is constantly banded about then.


Do you realize “do a better job of running the country” sounds hollow and empty? Nothing more that a lazy unionist soundbite snagged straight out of the telegraph.

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Last few polls on Indy over 50%

returning 80% of MPs

EU pretty much saying if we want it we're in. 

 

Can I assume that this is denial then?

 

Fact is that despite being in power since 2007 SNP have grown in strength. This is a nonsense line being peddled by a British backed media. I suppose Cummings plan for keeping us is to tell us how the SNP are fading despite all evidence to the contrary. 


Ridiculous. 

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frankblack
7 minutes ago, OTT said:

EU pretty much saying if we want it we're in. 

 

That isn't remotely true, is it.  Other than having a pop at the UK government for Brexit negotiations by buttering up Scotland and humoring the SNP, they aren't giving you any promises or guarantees.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-would-be-tough-on-membership-after-scottish-independence-martin-schulz-says-t5ntpc89x

 

The pathetic stunt the SNP played by paying someone to beam onto their building won't have helped their cause either.

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Phil Dunphy
1 hour ago, Hunky Dory said:


Do you realize “do a better job of running the country” sounds hollow and empty? Nothing more that a lazy unionist soundbite snagged straight out of the telegraph.


I don’t read the Telegraph. Or the Daily Mail. Or Express. Or any of the red tops. Or the National. 
 

But thanks for trying to patronise me. I’ll ignore you, along with the rest of your ilk though. Cheerio. 
 

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Not all Hearts fans are unionists ya jungle dweller, of course they're not! Away sort out your own region's problems. 


Telling me to go back where I came from, eh? Is that civic Nationalism I detect? :laugh:

 

You're a ****ing embarrassment. Even by the low standards you clearly set yourself, you’re a complete welt. 

Edited by Phil Dunphy
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1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

That isn't remotely true, is it.  Other than having a pop at the UK government for Brexit negotiations by buttering up Scotland and humoring the SNP, they aren't giving you any promises or guarantees.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-would-be-tough-on-membership-after-scottish-independence-martin-schulz-says-t5ntpc89x

 

The pathetic stunt the SNP played by paying someone to beam onto their building won't have helped their cause either.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/02/donald-tusk-eu-would-be-enthusiastic-if-scotland-applied-to-rejoin

 

'Tusk: EU would be enthusiastic if Scotland applied to rejoin'.

 

Its absolutely ridiculous to try and argue otherwise whilst prominent EU officials are stopping short of saying its a certainty. This is as good an answer you are ever going to get around such circumstances. 

 

If we get independence and apply for EU membership we will get it. Ludicrous fear-mongering to suggest otherwise. 

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"Dear EU would you like 10% of the UK back?"

 

"naw we're fine thanks, we have tons of applicants already"

 

:gok:

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manaliveits105

Out of today’s EEN 

1 patient waits 5 hours for ambulance questions asked of snp

2 Cancer hospital put back another 5 years questions asked of snp

3 Poor exam results questions asked of snp

one nights paper ffs

they are a shambles 

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Roxy Hearts
1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:


I don’t read the Telegraph. Or the Daily Mail. Or Express. Or any of the red tops. Or the National. 
 

But thanks for trying to patronise me. I’ll ignore you, along with the rest of your ilk though. Cheerio. 
 


Telling me to go back where I came from, eh? Is that civic Nationalism I detect? :laugh:

 

You're a ****ing embarrassment. Even by the low standards you clearly set yourself, you’re a complete welt. 

I'm glad I annoy you. I'm happy for anyone to live in Scotland but it's a bit rich commenting on our civic nationalism when there are larger problems elsewhere. Maybe Ireland will be united after all. 

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Hunky Dory
1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:


I don’t read the Telegraph. Or the Daily Mail. Or Express. Or any of the red tops. Or the National. 
 

But thanks for trying to patronise me. I’ll ignore you, along with the rest of your ilk though. Cheerio. 
 


Telling me to go back where I came from, eh? Is that civic Nationalism I detect? :laugh:

 

You're a ****ing embarrassment. Even by the low standards you clearly set yourself, you’re a complete welt. 


The true face of unionism. Bitter, angry, no substance, incapable of debate, and never presenting a positive case.

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Enzo Chiefo
2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I'm glad I annoy you. I'm happy for anyone to live in Scotland but it's a bit rich commenting on our civic nationalism when there are larger problems elsewhere. Maybe Ireland will be united after all. 

So, the same single issue fanatics support separating Scotland , uniting Ireland and joining the EU. Off the scale bizarre with a common anti- English thread running through it. I've got news for you...we are not, by your, or Sturgeon's definition, an equal partner in the UK. Nor are we entitled to be. We are 8% of the population and we have a per capita share of power in Westminster but receive £2k per head extra in public spending. That maybe doesn't resonate among the core support in Dundee or Glasgow but if they want to have a go at a pilot exercise in full fiscal autonomy in those 2 cities then I'm all for it.

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Dawnrazor
3 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:


The true face of unionism. Bitter, angry, no substance, incapable of debate, and never presenting a positive case.

To fair that can be pointed at both sides of the indie 'debate" on here.

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Roxy Hearts
2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

So, the same single issue fanatics support separating Scotland , uniting Ireland and joining the EU. Off the scale bizarre with a common anti- English thread running through it. I've got news for you...we are not, by your, or Sturgeon's definition, an equal partner in the UK. Nor are we entitled to be. We are 8% of the population and we have a per capita share of power in Westminster but receive £2k per head extra in public spending. That maybe doesn't resonate among the core support in Dundee or Glasgow but if they want to have a go at a pilot exercise in full fiscal autonomy in those 2 cities then I'm all for it.

What a lot of utter garbage. 2 trillion English debt......... 

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Dawnrazor
1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

What a lot of utter garbage. 2 trillion English debt......... 

British debt no?

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Enzo Chiefo
4 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

What a lot of utter garbage. 2 trillion English debt......... 

English debt???  Really? Covered by English tax payers , true, but generated disproprionately by Scotland. You don't wslk away from that without becoming a pariah state.

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7 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Out of today’s EEN 

1 patient waits 5 hours for ambulance questions asked of snp


I saw that sensationalist piece. Bloke triaged by call handlers, put down on the priority list as nothing imminently wrong with him other than pain exacerbated by a previous condition.

Uproar as he was only given a trolley in A&E and not a bed (A&E is all trolleys, not beds).
The bloke had to wait hours in A&E but was mentioned to have not broken any bones or any lasting physical concerns, so he’d obviously been assessed, potentially even an x-Ray. Hardly as if he’d just been left waiting untreated.

Wife took him home, and he got a script for pain relief from his GP. 

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Roxy Hearts
3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

English debt???  Really? Covered by English tax payers , true, but generated disproprionately by Scotland. You don't wslk away from that without becoming a pariah state.

If we are such a burden, let us go! Take some debt too with the assets. 

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Dawnrazor
2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

English. What debt has Scotland accrued? 

As part of the UK the debt is as much Scotlands.

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Just now, Dawnrazor said:

As part of the UK the debt is as much Scotlands.

9% is Scotland's, 83% is England's.

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Dawnrazor
2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

9% is Scotland's, 83% is England's.

Yes, but there is debt.

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Roxy Hearts
1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

As part of the UK the debt is as much Scotlands.

What did they spend it on? I demand a breakdown of facts and budgets that have been allocated also where all my tax has been sent? That's what the rabid unionists ask. I demand, I demand etc. etc... 

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Dawnrazor
1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

What did they spend it on? I demand a breakdown of facts and budgets that have been allocated also where all my tax has been sent? That's what the rabid unionists ask. I demand, I demand etc. etc... 

So where does the money spent in Scotland come from? 

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Enzo Chiefo
5 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

If we are such a burden, let us go! Take some debt too with the assets. 

Who mentioned being a burden? I agree, assets and debts are equally shared. If I were Boris, I would offer Sturgeon full fiscal autonomy on a trial basis and let's see how it goes. Incidentally,  if anyone can  come up with a coherent reason why the island of Ireland should unite and GB should separate, I would love to hear it.

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6 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Yes, but there is debt.

Of course. And there is assets too. But when it comes down to it, it's all about democracy. Scotland needs to chose it's own government to suit its size. Imo.

Edited by ri Alban
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Roxy Hearts
4 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

So where does the money spent in Scotland come from? 

Tell me, I want to know? I can't get the government to let me know. 

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6 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

So where does the money spent in Scotland come from? 

From Scotland.

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Enzo Chiefo
13 minutes ago, gjcc said:


I saw that sensationalist piece. Bloke triaged by call handlers, put down on the priority list as nothing imminently wrong with him other than pain exacerbated by a previous condition.

Uproar as he was only given a trolley in A&E and not a bed (A&E is all trolleys, not beds).
The bloke had to wait hours in A&E but was mentioned to have not broken any bones or any lasting physical concerns, so he’d obviously been assessed, potentially even an x-Ray. Hardly as if he’d just been left waiting untreated.

Wife took him home, and he got a script for pain relief from his GP. 

He had to wait 5 - FIVE - hours for an ambulance in the first place. Had that happened in England, the twisted wee First Minister would be spitting out her customary bile.

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Enzo Chiefo
Just now, ri Alban said:

From Scotland.

Part of it comes from Scotland ....but we raise £800 per head less in tax and receive £1.2k more in public spending. Every penny raised in Scotland is sent ito Westminster and every penny + £10bn comes back. I,'m looking to become independent from my Credit Card if anyone wants to take on a similar arrangement?

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4 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

He had to wait 5 - FIVE - hours for an ambulance in the first place. Had that happened in England, the twisted wee First Minister would be spitting out her customary bile.

Why?

NHS is fully devolved and always has been.

First Minister wouldn't say a thing about NHS England failings.

 

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Dawnrazor
Just now, Cade said:

Why?

NHS is fully devolved and always has been.

First Minister wouldn't say a thing about NHS England failings.

 

She does refer to it when questioned on Scottish waiting times.

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5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Part of it comes from Scotland ....but we raise £800 per head less in tax and receive £1.2k more in public spending. Every penny raised in Scotland is sent ito Westminster and every penny + £10bn comes back. I,'m looking to become independent from my Credit Card if anyone wants to take on a similar arrangement?

If you believe Gers. Scotland raises over £70b. £40b comes back, WM spends the rest.

 

7 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Not all of it as you know.

England spend on the never never aswell. What's the big deal.

Edited by ri Alban
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Just now, Dawnrazor said:

She does refer to it when questioned on Scottish waiting times.

She doesn't criticise the NHS England, she only uses performance comparison.

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Dawnrazor
1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

If you believe Gers.

 

England spend on the never never aswell. What's the big deal.

Im not saying its a big deal, just that Scotland has debt.

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Roxy Hearts
4 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Part of it comes from Scotland ....but we raise £800 per head less in tax and receive £1.2k more in public spending. Every penny raised in Scotland is sent ito Westminster and every penny + £10bn comes back. I,'m looking to become independent from my Credit Card if anyone wants to take on a similar arrangement?

Stated by whom and derived from which data sources? I want Westminster to tell me Scotland's finances. Not propaganda. Ffs. 

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Dawnrazor
1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

She doesn't criticise the NHS England, she only uses performance comparison.

Come on! 

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Enzo Chiefo
1 minute ago, Cade said:

Why?

NHS is fully devolved and always has been.

First Minister wouldn't say a thing about NHS England failings.

 

Tune in to FMQs on  Thursdays and she reqularly refers any critics of our NHS to performance in Labour run Wales ot Toaaarrrry run England. Ask her which PM's policy facilitated her parents to buy their council house and I suspect she would be lost for words. 

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Dawnrazor
Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

Stated by whom and derived from which data sources? I want Westminster to tell me Scotland's finances. Not propaganda. Ffs. 

I could see if i can get you Boris's phone number?

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2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Im not saying its a big deal, just that Scotland has debt.

More's the Pity we didn't copy Norway. But hey hi, they're still a good 60 years left to do so, if we just grow a pair. I'm sure most of our Allies will be pleased for us and do what they can to help us re-establish ourselves.

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Enzo Chiefo
12 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Stated by whom and derived from which data sources? I want Westminster to tell me Scotland's finances. Not propaganda. Ffs. 

The GERS figures are commissioned by the Scottish govt. Which part of Scotland do you think is this thriving, innovative hub that is being held back by nasty Boris and his Toaaarry party?  If we had a proper devolved government here rather than the swivel-eyed , single issue protest party that is in power, it would be negotiating with the UK govt about the benefits of coming out of the Common Fisheries Policy and the other myriad powers that are being repatriated after leaving the EU.

Edited by Enzo Chiefo
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jack D and coke
11 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The GERS figures are commissioned by the Scottish govt. Which part of Scotland do you think is this thriving, innovative hub that is being held back by nasty Boris and his Toaaarry party?  If we had a proper devolved government here than the swivel-eyed , single issue protest party that is in power, e would be negotiating with the UK govt about the benefits of coming out of the Common Fisheries Policy and the other myriad powers that are being repatriated after leaving the EU.

So you think we’re getting control of our waters again aye? What are the fishing rights going to bring you personally? You realise how small a part of the uk economy it is in comparison to say the financial services? We keep them out of our waters the city of London gets a doing. Who do you reckon will give?

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Enzo Chiefo
7 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

So you think we’re getting control of our waters again aye? What are the fishing rights going to bring you personally? You realise how small a part of the uk economy it is in comparison to say the financial services? We keep them out of our waters the city of London gets a doing. Who do you reckon will give?

London is big enough to deal with threats from Barnier and his ilk. The bottom line is that the EU and individual countries are 2 different entities. It is a cartel that hammers poorer countries, outwith the bloc, with huge tarriffs on their goods.  The EU is a busted  flush and it's agressive rhetoric towards the UK is down to the fact that it knows we are only the first. Other countries will follow and the entire project will disintegrate. Maggie Thatcher was the architect of the Single Market but she wouldn't have envisaged the gradual erosion of sovereignty that would follow.

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Dawnrazor
2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

London is big enough to deal with threats from Barnier and his ilk. The bottom line is that the EU and individual countries are 2 different entities. It is a cartel that hammers poorer countries, outwith the bloc, with huge tarriffs on their goods.  The EU is a busted  flush and it's agressive rhetoric towards the UK is down to the fact that it knows we are only the first. Other countries will follow and the entire project will disintegrate. Maggie Thatcher was the architect of the Single Market but she wouldn't have envisaged the gradual erosion of sovereignty that would follow.

56% of the Dutch polled would leave, rumblings in France and Italy too.

I'd be all in favour of the original idea, but it's morphed out of all recognition. 

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jack D and coke
6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

London is big enough to deal with threats from Barnier and his ilk. The bottom line is that the EU and individual countries are 2 different entities. It is a cartel that hammers poorer countries, outwith the bloc, with huge tarriffs on their goods.  The EU is a busted  flush and it's agressive rhetoric towards the UK is down to the fact that it knows we are only the first. Other countries will follow and the entire project will disintegrate. Maggie Thatcher was the architect of the Single Market but she wouldn't have envisaged the gradual erosion of sovereignty that would follow.

All sounds good mate. I think you’re wrong though. 
We’ll see I guess. 

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Enzo Chiefo
10 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

All sounds good mate. I think you’re wrong though. 
We’ll see I guess. 

Exactly JD. Just my opinion and I respect yours and others. Time will tell.

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