The rise and fall of The SNP.

[coconut doug]

4 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

There's an article about Robert Peston's predictions about the negative impacts of independence in a program being pulled by BBC Scotland due to the predicted fall out from Salmond. 

 

You might think if they had their facts right they would be able to keep the public informed, that's their job after all.

 

If they were to highlight the negatives about Indy you would hardly be surprised if Salmond challenged it and surely any decent journalist would be prepared to make a robust defence of his arguments.

 

As far as i can see Salmond has done nothing. They pulled the programme because of a fear of Salmond. JAG interprets this non action by Salmond as manipulation of the BBC. Seems to me they are manipulating themselves.

 

Just maybe "fear of Salmond" means not a very good programme.

[felix]

3 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Do you mean this?

 

Yes. What was actually in his report that was pulled ?

Or maybe he just "f*cked things up..  reporting false storeies" , like he admits to in the link you posted ?

[felix]

17 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Do you mean this?

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by felix
multiple post

[felix]

16 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Do you mean this?

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by felix
multiple post

[felix]

16 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Do you mean this?

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by felix
multiple post

[felix]

15 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Do you mean this?

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by felix
multiple post

[felix]

14 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Do you mean this?

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by felix
multiple post

[felix]

10 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Do you mean this?

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by felix

[Dawnrazor]

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

You might think if they had their facts right they would be able to keep the public informed, that's their job after all.

 

If they were to highlight the negatives about Indy you would hardly be surprised if Salmond challenged it and surely any decent journalist would be prepared to make a robust defence of his arguments.

 

As far as i can see Salmond has done nothing. They pulled the programme because of a fear of Salmond. JAG interprets this non action by Salmond as manipulation of the BBC. Seems to me they are manipulating themselves.

 

Just maybe "fear of Salmond" means not a very good programme.

Possibly, or maybe the Peston was right??

[coconut doug]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

Possibly, or maybe the Peston was right??

 

I don't doubt Preston but i don't think that's Alex Salmond's (He already has plenty) or the SNP's problem. I also don't think you can call it manipulation either.

 There were all manner of claims and distortions in the Indy debate made by a wide variety of people and organisations including the BBC so what was the problem with this one? Peston doesn't tell us because his problem is with the BBC and not Salmond or the SNP.

[Dawnrazor]

8 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

I don't doubt Preston but i don't think that's Alex Salmond's (He already has plenty) or the SNP's problem. I also don't think you can call it manipulation either.

 There were all manner of claims and distortions in the Indy debate made by a wide variety of people and organisations including the BBC so what was the problem with this one? Peston doesn't tell us because his problem is with the BBC and not Salmond or the SNP.

Yep, possibly 👍

[Ainsley Harriott]

What a blessing Corona has been for the SNP it has provided the perfect excuse for failing to deliver indy ref 2 and the early closer of schools will nicely mask next years PISA ratings. Jammy Gits.

[Space Mackerel]

10 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

What a blessing Corona has been for the SNP it has provided the perfect excuse for failing to deliver indy ref 2 and the early closer of schools will nicely mask next years PISA ratings. Jammy Gits.

SNP up to 53%, unlucky. 😊

[ri Alban]

10 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

What a blessing Corona has been for the SNP it has provided the perfect excuse for failing to deliver indy ref 2 and the early closer of schools will nicely mask next years PISA ratings. Jammy Gits.

Gie it a rest. The Coronavirus or any other for that matter is not a God send for anyone. It's pure evil and people are dying, so ...

Edited March 20, 2020 by ri Alban

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

SNP up to 53%, unlucky. 😊

Where? 

[manaliveits105]

In cloud cuckoo land 

The octopus trial has put the nawbags back up to 55% 

[Space Mackerel]

14 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Where? 

BBC and STV webz pages. 

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

BBC and STV webz pages. 

Links?

[East Lothian Jambo]

On 15/03/2020 at 21:40, Zlatanable said:

Do you mean this?

 

“A couple of days before the Scottish independence referendum in 2014, and just ten minutes before going to air on the Ten O’Clock news, a piece I had made on the economic implications of Scottish independence was pulled, on the orders of the corporation’s most senior executives, who feared the ire of Alex Salmond.”

Peston, BBC Economics Editor at the time, added: “The least edifying aspect of the incident is that the assorted bosses subsequently rang me to distance themselves from the decision, just in case it leaked and became a cause celebre.” https://inews.co.uk/news/media/robert-peston-bbc-scottish-independence-alex-salmond-explained-2260741

 

 

Sounds about right 

 

[Space Mackerel]

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

Links?

They’re deleted now. Just like when 6 million marched in Edinburgh last year. 
 

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

8 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

They’re deleted now. Just like when 6 million marched in Edinburgh last year. 
 

 

You make up some amount of P*sh

[Dawnrazor]

9 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

They’re deleted now. Just like when 6 million marched in Edinburgh last year. 
 

 

🤣 aye, ok 👍

[Brighton Jambo]

I’m feel guilty for indulging in political debate at this time but this is the thread to do it I guess.  
 

I also accept that as always this might be wishful thinking in my part but one question that keeps getting asked is what are the benefits/plus sides of being in the union?

 

if and when we get through this the value of being part of this union will have been more strongly reinforced than at any time since the Second World War.  Making a case to split that union will be harder than it has ever been.

 

this is the ultimate but unwanted game changer, turns out when it really matters we are better together.  

[Space Mackerel]

1 hour ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

You make up some amount of P*sh

 

17 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

🤣 aye, ok 👍

 

I got the info off Effie McDeans blog.

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

 

I got the info off Effie McDeans blog.

😥 aye, ok 👍

[Space Mackerel]

11 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I’m feel guilty for indulging in political debate at this time but this is the thread to do it I guess.  
 

I also accept that as always this might be wishful thinking in my part but one question that keeps getting asked is what are the benefits/plus sides of being in the union?

 

if and when we get through this the value of being part of this union will have been more strongly reinforced than at any time since the Second World War.  Making a case to split that union will be harder than it has ever been.

 

this is the ultimate but unwanted game changer, turns out when it really matters we are better together.  

 

In that case we should re-join the EU?

[Brighton Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

In that case we should re-join the EU?

Yes certainly, I was always a remainer.

 

The Difference is we have already voted to leave the EU. the people of Scotland haven’t yet decided to do the same from the UK.  It won’t happen now

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

That's an uncanny likeness of Sturgeon 🤣🤣

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

That's an uncanny likeness of Sturgeon 🤣🤣

Plenty more of him online looking like a dafty.

 

[jambogaza]

1 hour ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I’m feel guilty for indulging in political debate at this time but this is the thread to do it I guess.  
 

I also accept that as always this might be wishful thinking in my part but one question that keeps getting asked is what are the benefits/plus sides of being in the union?

 

if and when we get through this the value of being part of this union will have been more strongly reinforced than at any time since the Second World War.  Making a case to split that union will be harder than it has ever been.

 

this is the ultimate but unwanted game changer, turns out when it really matters we are better together. 

 

I don't agree.

 

The face of the movement is Nicola Sturgeon and she will in all likelihood be re-elected next year as FM. Incidentally, she has been outstanding over the past few weeks and that won't have gone unnoticed by the electorate.

 

This isn't the time for political debate but the independence debate will still be on the agenda next year, intensified by a likely SNP win at Holyrood.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by jambogaza

[Brighton Jambo]

1 hour ago, jambogaza said:

 

I don't agree.

 

The face of the movement is Nicola Sturgeon and she will in all likelihood be re-elected next year as FM. Incidentally, she has been outstanding over the past few weeks and that won't have gone unnoticed by the electorate.

 

This isn't the time for political debate but the independence debate will still be on the agenda next year, intensified by a likely SNP win at Holyrood.

 

 

I agree not the time.  But if you mean face of independence movement I agree, if you mean face of tackling this issue then absolute rubbish.

 

the prime minister is on our screens every day addressing the whole nation.

 

and if not him, Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance have been far more visible and so has the chancellor who has taken actual actions.  

[jambogaza]

3 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I agree not the time.  But if you mean face of independence movement I agree, if you mean face of tackling this issue then absolute rubbish.

 

the prime minister is on our screens every day addressing the whole nation.

 

and if not him, Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance have been far more visible and so has the chancellor who has taken actual actions.  

 

Yes for clarity, face of independence movement.

[Space Mackerel]

3 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I agree not the time.  But if you mean face of independence movement I agree, if you mean face of tackling this issue then absolute rubbish.

 

the prime minister is on our screens every day addressing the whole nation.

 

and if not him, Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance have been far more visible and so has the chancellor who has taken actual actions.  

 

Has it gone un-noticed to yourself that the vast majority of Scots and a fair few percentage of the English think Johnson is an absolute grade A ****wit? 

 

Did you hear about Operation Last Gasp?

 

 

[Brighton Jambo]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Has it gone un-noticed to yourself that the vast majority of Scots and a fair few percentage of the English think Johnson is an absolute grade A ****wit? 

 

Did you hear about Operation Last Gasp?

 

 

Do you Know what, I’m ashamed of myself for getting political given everything.  I was tired and hungover (from drinking in house don’t worry) and was being grumpy.  
 

I am going to avoid all political comments until this is all over.  
 

then we can get back to slaughtering each other as per normal 

[Space Mackerel]

1 hour ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Do you Know what, I’m ashamed of myself for getting political given everything.  I was tired and hungover (from drinking in house don’t worry) and was being grumpy.  
 

I am going to avoid all political comments until this is all over.  
 

then we can get back to slaughtering each other as per normal 

That’s alright pal. I’ve been guilty of a few drunken or overly sarcastic posts. 
 

Im right up for slaughtering people on here, especially the hard of thinking. 
 

Get well soon. 💪

 

[Justin Z]

On 15/03/2020 at 13:10, Space Mackerel said:

Has the SNP fallen yet? 😃

 

[Beast Boy]

Are we currently experiencing a rise or fall? I lose track.

[Beast Boy]

6 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

As it says on the tin, The Rise and Fall of the SNP. 

We are in the fall of the SNP just now. 

That was over a month ago though, and the evidence for the claim was a bit shaky at best. Wondered if maybe we had started a rise again since then.

[Pans Jambo]

On 16/03/2020 at 01:58, Zlatanable said:

I have spent a lot of time feeling guilty about our interaction here @coconut doug

 

You were quite correct. Yet I wasn't that wrong. And neither were you. 

 

I am not aiming to make people feel bad. I am aiming to confront thinking in the minds of people in Scotland. 

 

I am ok with myself, cos I am not cheating people, for selfish reasons, in the cause of stupidity and ignorance. 

 

 

You will need a bigger platform than this to “confront thinking in the minds of people in Scotland”.

 

The SNP are as popular as they have been if not more despite whatever infighting there may or may not be going on just now. If you look at the tories as an example, a huge chunk of their MP’s left, then Boris sacked more but despite their horrific record in public office they swept up in England. Part of that is because nobody wanted to vote for Corbyn down there.

 

SNP is the same. Theyre the only show in town in Scotland.
Who would even admit to voting for Jackson Carlaw FFS?

Folk would rather get caught interfering with a farm animal IMO.

 

I will vote SNP until we get Indy. They will likely splinter after that anyway so as a party they will be a side show like the tories in Scotland IMO but not until then.

 

The SNP are a means to an end and no amount of perceived infighting will change folks minds on that.

 

The SNP will sweep the board next elections. Again.

[Space Mackerel]

Must be time for about the 8th SNP civil war in approx 3 years now surely? 😁😁😁

[jambos are go!]

My GUESS about what is going is that there is one faction led by Sturgeon who is backing away from full blown Independence towards a stronger devolved settlement. Then there is another faction wanting to go full steam ahead for full independence. Salmon is at least a prominent figure and possible figurehead for this faction.

 

Could be wrong. Should be fun.

[ri Alban]

4 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

My GUESS about what is going is that there is one faction led by Sturgeon who is backing away from full blown Independence towards a stronger devolved settlement. Then there is another faction wanting to go full steam ahead for full independence. Salmon is at least a prominent figure and possible figurehead for this faction.

 

Could be wrong. Should be fun.

Nicola should stand down, then.(She does seem to comfortable being FM). The SNP is for Independence not devolution. The SDP? Well the original wasn't much cop either. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by ri Alban

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Nicolas should stand down, then. The SNP is for Independence not devolution. The SDP? Well the original was much cop either. 

I think it’s time she did anyway. Not anything to do with her stance either way but it’s time for a fresh face. 

[jambogaza]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Nicolas should stand down, then. The SNP is for Independence not devolution. The SDP? Well the original was much cop either. 

 

Sturgeon is a gradualist but to suggest she doesn't want independence anymore is, again, wishful/delusional thinking by some.

 

The UK government is the face of this crisis but Sturgeon is also getting a lot more air time and is being seen as a safe pair of hands. The Tories and SNP will both benefit from this in the end, I think. Sturgeon will be re-elected FM as who else would you trust in that role?

 

That will mean an independence referendum at some point, but the arguments for separating will need careful consideration again across the movement now that the goal posts have been changed by the pandemic. Who is best placed to pick up the pieces of this crisis when it is over and under what conditions - for years to come?

[ri Alban]

28 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I think it’s time she did anyway. Not anything to do with her stance either way but it’s time for a fresh face. 

I like Keith Brown. The only SNP politician that has said"It's independence, not the SNP your voting for in a referendum" or words to that affect.

And he said the white paper was an SNP perspective, Scotland will choose the path we actually go down.

Edited March 24, 2020 by ri Alban

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

I like Keith Brown. The only SNP politician that has said"It's independence, not the SNP your voting for in a referendum" or words to that affect.

And he said the white paper was an SNP perspective, Scotland will choose the path we actually go down.

I think it just needs all freshened up the same voices start to wear people down. Brown isn’t too bad although you don’t hear an awful lot from him. I’ll reserve judgement on him. 
Tommy Shephard and Phillipa Whitford need brought much closer to the front too for me. Just seem decent and genuine. 
Id have a place for Angus Robertson too those three aren’t as confrontational as someone the likes of Blackford who makes me cringe my tits off half the time in the HoP. 

[East Lothian Jambo]

7 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

You will need a bigger platform than this to “confront thinking in the minds of people in Scotland”.

 

The SNP are as popular as they have been if not more despite whatever infighting there may or may not be going on just now. If you look at the tories as an example, a huge chunk of their MP’s left, then Boris sacked more but despite their horrific record in public office they swept up in England. Part of that is because nobody wanted to vote for Corbyn down there.

 

SNP is the same. Theyre the only show in town in Scotland.
Who would even admit to voting for Jackson Carlaw FFS?

Folk would rather get caught interfering with a farm animal IMO.

 

I will vote SNP until we get Indy. They will likely splinter after that anyway so as a party they will be a side show like the tories in Scotland IMO but not until then.

 

The SNP are a means to an end and no amount of perceived infighting will change folks minds on that.

 

The SNP will sweep the board next elections. Again.

Might be a long wait on that front 

[ri Alban]

9 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I think it just needs all freshened up the same voices start to wear people down. Brown isn’t too bad although you don’t hear an awful lot from him. I’ll reserve judgement on him. 
Tommy Shephard and Phillipa Whitford need brought much closer to the front too for me. Just seem decent and genuine. 
Id have a place for Angus Robertson too those three aren’t as confrontational as someone the likes of Blackford who makes me cringe my tits off half the time in the HoP. 

I agree, but I do like Blackford, but his trolling of WM isn't in the same class as the Greatest living Scotsman.

[jambos are go!]

2 hours ago, jambogaza said:

 

Sturgeon is a gradualist but to suggest she doesn't want independence anymore is, again, wishful/delusional thinking by some.

 

The UK government is the face of this crisis but Sturgeon is also getting a lot more air time and is being seen as a safe pair of hands. The Tories and SNP will both benefit from this in the end, I think. Sturgeon will be re-elected FM as who else would you trust in that role?

 

That will mean an independence referendum at some point, but the arguments for separating will need careful consideration again across the movement now that the goal posts have been changed by the pandemic. Who is best placed to pick up the pieces of this crisis when it is over and under what conditions - for years to come?

I don't think the huge splits in the S NP can be explained by minor differences of opinion on timing.