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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Civilisation is just a clearing in the forest.The forest can take it back anytime it likes. 

This has been a real eye opener. Our economies etc mean jack shit and look how quickly its imploding too. 
 

The economy's always meant nothing and the Tories have always put it before human beings on the bottom rung.

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Has anyone read the replies under Nicola Sturgeon’s and the Scottish Government’s tweets? Absolutely horrendous that people are using this current global crisis to make irrelevant political pot-shots. I honestly don’t know what is wrong with some people.

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Ah, only seems like yesterday that we were having Separatists state with absolute certainty that the European Union was a more effective, relevant, compassionate and progressive union, than the one shared by the four Island Nations of the United Kingdom.

 

Let's see how that message lands with free thinking Scots at the end of this. 

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54 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Has anyone read the replies under Nicola Sturgeon’s and the Scottish Government’s tweets? Absolutely horrendous that people are using this current global crisis to make irrelevant political pot-shots. I honestly don’t know what is wrong with some people.

It's called unionism. Their comments are getting more and more deranged as they see their precious union fade into history

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Roxy Hearts
35 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Ah, only seems like yesterday that we were having Separatists state with absolute certainty that the European Union was a more effective, relevant, compassionate and progressive union, than the one shared by the four Island Nations of the United Kingdom.

 

Let's see how that message lands with free thinking Scots at the end of this. 

"Free thinking" Scots want independence. Other Scots are Brits and want to remain subservient. 

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manaliveits105
37 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Ah, only seems like yesterday that we were having Separatists state with absolute certainty that the European Union was a more effective, relevant, compassionate and progressive union, than the one shared by the four Island Nations of the United Kingdom.

 

Let's see how that message lands with free thinking Scots at the end of this. 

Indeed a Kingdom United 

 

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The White Cockade

Not the time for it really as we should all be concentrating on beating this virus but

Does anybody really think that the British State would roll out all the big guns to fight off the

chance of Scottish Independence every time there is a referendum  / vote if they pay over the odds to subsidise Scotland?

Really?

It is because the opposite is true

It is a well known fact that the Establishment ran a dirty tricks campaign to sabotage the 1979 Devolution Referendum as they

were terrified of losing the oil revenue

When this failed a late move to change the rules of the vote was implemented so that even though more than 50% voted Yes

there was no devolution as 40% of total electorate had not voted Yes

A rule that was a one off just to scupper this vote

People can believe in the Union or Independence as that is their right but to claim that the UK/England are subsidising Scotland is ludicrous or they wouldn't be so desperate to retain the status quo

When the Union was first "arranged" in 1707 the main driving force was for Scotland to take on a percentage of England's national debt sugar coated

with some short term help in relation to the state Scotland was in after the Darien disaster

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1 hour ago, jambogaza said:

 

Indeed, that is evidence. The OP has not produced a single shred of factual evidence other than his internal thoughts.

To be fair to the OP - he produced some figures a couple of pages ago - 4 weeks after starting the thread - showing support for the SNP fell slightly  in 2017 (against 2015's landslide) and then rose again at the 2019 elections.

Support has been rising again, against the Brexit backdrop - so all told; not the best thread title in terms of statistics..

Suspect the thread was wishful thinking from the OP , probably anticipating implosion after the Salmond trial..

 

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Space Mackerel
1 hour ago, jambogaza said:

 

Indeed, that is evidence. The OP has not produced a single shred of factual evidence other than his internal thoughts.


I think his thoughts are more his personal wishes and pleas. 
 

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1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

I think his thoughts are more his personal wishes and pleas.

 

  

On 13/03/2020 at 17:07, Zlatanable said:

This thread is called ' the rise and fall of The SNP'.

 

I specifically called this thread that, because to me, The SNP have had a rise, and currently, are in freefall.

 

 

:gok:

 

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1 hour ago, felix said:

To be fair to the OP - he produced some figures a couple of pages ago - 4 weeks after starting the thread - showing support for the SNP fell slightly  in 2017 (against 2015's landslide) and then rose again at the 2019 elections.

Support has been rising again, against the Brexit backdrop - so all told; not the best thread title in terms of statistics..

Suspect the thread was wishful thinking from the OP , probably anticipating implosion after the Salmond trial..

 

 

I think the fall out from the trial will come but the public isn't as engaged in this as people think. Had he been imprisoned, that would have blown up the whole thing up and had more of an impact. Still believe Sturgeon will find her way through this.

 

The electorate broadly speaking trust Sturgeon and she reaches beyond the core support. Genuinely, who else would you have as FM?

 

The challenge for the SNP and the independence movement is making the case for independence post Covid 19 and in the backdrop of Brexit.

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jambos are go!
1 hour ago, The White Cockade said:

Not the time for it really as we should all be concentrating on beating this virus but

Does anybody really think that the British State would roll out all the big guns to fight off the

chance of Scottish Independence every time there is a referendum  / vote if they pay over the odds to subsidise Scotland?

Really?

It is because the opposite is true

It is a well known fact that the Establishment ran a dirty tricks campaign to sabotage the 1979 Devolution Referendum as they

were terrified of losing the oil revenue

When this failed a late move to change the rules of the vote was implemented so that even though more than 50% voted Yes

there was no devolution as 40% of total electorate had not voted Yes

A rule that was a one off just to scupper this vote

People can believe in the Union or Independence as that is their right but to claim that the UK/England are subsidising Scotland is ludicrous or they wouldn't be so desperate to retain the status quo

When the Union was first "arranged" in 1707 the main driving force was for Scotland to take on a percentage of England's national debt sugar coated

with some short term help in relation to the state Scotland was in after the Darien disaster

Have you heard of or read the GERS figured showing we receive a lot more than we put in?? Or is that another conspiracy??

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Space Mackerel
1 minute ago, jambos are go! said:

Have you heard of or read the GERS figured showing we receive a lot more than we put in?? Or is that another conspiracy??

 

Do you scrounge off your mates every time you go out for a drink?

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On 25/03/2020 at 19:14, Roxy Hearts said:

Barnett is our own money!

Eh? 

Could you give us break down of where all the tax comes from in the UK. I know its difficult for this financial year so 2028-19 will do.

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Space Mackerel
8 minutes ago, H2 said:

Eh? 

Could you give us break down of where all the tax comes from in the UK. I know its difficult for this financial year so 2028-19 will do.

 

You give me £60 and I'll give you £40 back. You live in a high rise flat and I give you a lawnmower once a year as a gift.

 

I couldn't really afford the lawnmower so I have added the interest on the payments on to your debt.

Edited by Space Mackerel
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Roxy Hearts
10 minutes ago, H2 said:

Eh? 

Could you give us break down of where all the tax comes from in the UK. I know its difficult for this financial year so 2028-19 will do.

UK won't tell us what our true figures are! That's the point and I can't tell the future so maybe ask a unionist about 2028 as they have all the answers! 

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10 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

UK won't tell us what our true figures are! That's the point and I can't tell the future so maybe ask a unionist about 2028 as they have all the answers! 

Have you sent a freedom of information question?

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2 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Indeed a Kingdom United 

 

 

Absolutely. This choosing the wrong side where Europe is concerned is becoming a bit of a habit for Scottish Nationalists.

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16 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

You give me £60 and I'll give you £40 back. You live in a high rise flat and I give you a lawnmower once a year as a gift.

 

I couldn't really afford the lawnmower so I have added the interest on the payments on to your debt.

PMSL, That's what you lot do, avoid the question.

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Space Mackerel
1 minute ago, H2 said:

PMSL, That's what you lot do, avoid the question.

 

No, its how it works. In simple layman's terms. You're choosing self denial.

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2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

No, its how it works. In simple layman's terms. You're choosing self denial.

LOL - that's your out of this world perception, now feel free to answer the question, which I know and you know doesn't give the answer you want.

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Roxy Hearts
13 minutes ago, H2 said:

Have you sent a freedom of information question?

Why don't you ask for one? I couldn't care less. I will accept Scotland as a barren wasteland! 

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Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

Why don't you ask for one? I couldn't care less. I will accept Scotland as a barren wasteland! 

It's not me that needs the information. I'm content with the status quo.

If you don't care, why make a comment?

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coconut doug
54 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Absolutely. This choosing the wrong side where Europe is concerned is becoming a bit of a habit for Scottish Nationalists.

 

I've no idea what you have been talking about. Perhaps you should explain why you think Indy supporters have chosen "the wrong side" Are the Eu our enemy now?

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Space Mackerel
7 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

I've no idea what you have been talking about. Perhaps you should explain why you think Indy supporters have chosen "the wrong side" Are the Eu our enemy now?

 

More ramblings from someone with a Spanish made up internet name. You would think he/she would be naming them self something along the lines of Bob or Paul being so British.

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coconut doug
Just now, Space Mackerel said:

 

More ramblings from someone with a Spanish made up internet name. You would think he/she would be naming them self something along the lines of Bob or Paul being so British.

 

I want to know what he is talking about. Has the EU done us a bad turn?

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Space Mackerel
Just now, coconut doug said:

 

I want to know what he is talking about. Has the EU done us a bad turn?

 

Barnier gave Boris the corona lurgy according to one right wing pro EU Sunday rag today. That might be the posters beef.

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4 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

Mods, please change title - The Rise and Rise of the SNP.

 

:rofl:

 

image.png.0e52542871072fc4c1db2aad540b37e2.png

 

And this one, especially for the OP. Please be sure to quote it. :lol:

 

image.png.70030a8d38b14936a7a68ccbd6628719.png

 

:kirklol:

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coconut doug
4 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Barnier gave Boris the corona lurgy according to one right wing pro EU Sunday rag today. That might be the posters beef.

 

Looks like he's not going to tell us anyway.

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Space Mackerel
6 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Looks like he's not going to tell us anyway.

 

Wiping away the tears and snotters with these.

 

Hanky Display Everyday Unit - NJ Products : NJ Products

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Roxy Hearts
1 hour ago, H2 said:

It's not me that needs the information. I'm content with the status quo.

If you don't care, why make a comment?

It's the sanctimonious nonsense the unionists spew that bothers me. Their patronising, ill-informed, condescending attitude towards other Scots is why I care. I used to believe in the UK but not anymore, now that the sewer of British politics has been flushed out for all to see! We need some sort of new partnership at least. 

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8 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

We need some sort of new partnership at least. 

 

Almost like some sort of organisation where the countries are all independent members for their mutual benefit, a kind of "commonwealth", perhaps.

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1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

More ramblings from someone with a Spanish made up internet name. You would think he/she would be naming them self something along the lines of Bob or Paul being so British.

Piss off. 
 

that’s been the lads nickname since we were nippers.

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Space Mackerel
15 minutes ago, Boris said:

Piss off. 
 

that’s been the lads nickname since we were nippers.

 

Charming 😕

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2 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

It's the sanctimonious nonsense the unionists spew that bothers me. Their patronising, ill-informed, condescending attitude towards other Scots is why I care. I used to believe in the UK but not anymore, now that the sewer of British politics has been flushed out for all to see! We need some sort of new partnership at least. 

It's better than the alternative.

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jambos are go!
2 hours ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

Unionists are perplexed, but that's what happens when your main source for politics is the MSM.

What's your main source for politics?

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30 minutes ago, weehammy said:

MSM??? Straight from the Trump playbook. You’ll be on about the ‘deep state’ next.

 

Because some fascist ideologue popularised an unthinking version of crying "fake news" at everything he doesn't like, that doesn't mean proper, critical skepticism of media and other forms of information dissemination is invalid.


Indeed, that would be a non sequitur and also poisoning the well.

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28 minutes ago, weehammy said:

In the UK which sources other than the ‘main stream media’ would you recommend for honest reporting? A spectrum from the Guardian to the DailyMail are all ‘main stream’ though their editorial policies differ. You are using a very broad philosophical argument to defend a poster who is obviously a zealot and a bit of a nutter!

 

And that would be ad hominem. :wink:

 

In seriousness, not being from the UK, I don't think my opinion on the subject of which news sources are trustworthy is worth much. I have studied at university the conglomeration of media and the reduction of voices within the major media space here (in the US), and it would appear to me that similar has happened in Britain, but I'd only be speculating.

 

Still, regardless of whether your assertion about the poster is right, it doesn't excuse a lapse in reasoning.

 

Edited by Justin Z
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jambos are go!
3 hours ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

Whatever it is, it's more reliable than the one you used when pulling that 30 billion figure out of nowhere on Wednesday.

So you thought that hearing on MSN reporting that that the UK Chancellor had devised a package worth around 340 Billion quid to support British Workers Wages was a mirage or fake news. And me suggesting that Scotland would get over 30 Billion of that was pulled from nowhere. Really!!!

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jack D and coke
10 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

So you thought that hearing on MSN reporting that that the UK Chancellor had devised a package worth around 340 Billion quid to support British Workers Wages was a mirage or fake news. And me suggesting that Scotland would get over 30 Billion of that was pulled from nowhere. Really!!!

Gove already suggesting more austerity to pay for it too. 
You go on like Britain is the only country in the world capable of helping their citizens. 
Scotland helping its population is no different from Britain helping its population. 

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jambos are go!
27 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Gove already suggesting more austerity to pay for it too. 
You go on like Britain is the only country in the world capable of helping their citizens. 
Scotland helping its population is no different from Britain helping its population. 

I'm going on about the financial facts being disputed to suit an uninformed political judgement and have made no inference that Britain is the only country  helping its population because I know that is not true.

 

You are just trying to divert from a inconvenient truth about stupid  jibes at me.

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jack D and coke
14 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

I'm going on about the financial facts being disputed to suit an uninformed political judgement and have made no inference that Britain is the only country  helping its population because I know that is not true.

 

You are just trying to divert from a inconvenient truth about stupid  jibes at me.

But you’re suggesting Scotland couldn’t or wouldn’t and you have absolutely zero to back that up. 
 

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jambos are go!
21 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

But you’re suggesting Scotland couldn’t or wouldn’t and you have absolutely zero to back that up. 
 

Where did I suggest that?? More diversion?

Edited by jambos are go!
Typo
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