Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[The Internet]

8 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

At the start of lockdown people were calling the police because their neighbours were leaving the house more than once a day 

 

Were they? 

[redjambo]

21 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

At the start of lockdown people were calling the police because their neighbours were leaving the house more than once a day 

 

Do you call the police if someone is playing loud music because you suspect them of having a party? 

 

Relying on people snooping is very state like imo

 

If that's true, those people were idiots too.

 

Look, if you were to hear a blood-curdling scream from the house next door, and you thought something was wrong, or if you saw someone outside nicking a car, you would consider calling the police (I hope so, anyway). So, it's not a question of "snooping", it's a question of us all having different cut-off points where we will or will not report something we see. That's just ordinary life. The principal question I suppose is one of "Do I think that what I have witnessed is a threat to any individuals or to society as a whole" (fly-tipping is a good example of the latter). Some people, like the ones you mentioned above, might take it too far but, in their defence, perhaps they were just scared by this new virus that had hit us.

 

I personally did call the police once because someone was having an all-out party, it was 2am, they wouldn't answer their fecking door, and the noise of the party was bouncing straight off the factory wall behind us and into all the other flats. I was completely fed up (and the music they were playing was gash ). My tolerance is quite high too.

 

I don't know what I would do if I lived in one of the three affected areas. If the noise wasn't too great, I probably wouldn't care less. But we're all different.

 

There is no other way that the police can police the law though, as far as I can see. Contrary to the Stasi, we *haven't* been asked to spy on our neighbours. However, if someone does report a gathering then the police may decide to attend and, under certain circumstances, may take action. You would hope that the fact that this might happen might at least have some sort of deterrent value but who knows.

Edited September 2, 2020 by redjambo

[Francis Albert]

19 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

7 more people to try and stay socially distanced. 

But the rule/law applies equally to a one bedroom flat or bed sit as to a 5 bedroom 3 reception room house.

It is daft. 

 

[Fxxx the SPFL]

2 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Is that definitely down to the virus or is it the locations that the virus is active? I'm not sure it is safe enough to be running riot in hospitals and care homes just yet, nor among those that get care in our communities.  

 

Look it's great news if it is mutating to a less dangerous virus, lets hope that's how this plays out and we can get going again very soon.

Hopefully it is BD the economy now has to take priority otherwise there will be no hope, no light at the end of the tunnel for those out of work. i have a mother in law in a nursing home and my father in law (88) still lives at home suffering from Alzheimer's he has carers but they can't watch him 24/7 and he been on walkabout during COVID all round Stockbridge up Frederick St didn't understand social distancing how he's never tested positive we'll never know. i don't want anything to happen to them and controversial as it is the economy now comes first imo.

[Nucky Thompson]

15 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

Were they? 

The police had to come out on TV and ask people not to do it as their lines were getting jammed. They even gave some examples like 'my neighbour has went jogging twice today instead of once'

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Policed by neighbours snooping. 

 

You only have to look at this thread to see the sort of nosey, interfering, do-goody-good, drones who live amongst us, FA.

 

The sort that would be on the blower if you were hiding Jews in the attic when the government took a dislike to them.

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

But the rule/law applies equally to a one bedroom flat or bed sit as to a 5 bedroom 3 reception room house.

It is daft. 

 

 

What would you suggest? Differing guidelines depending on the square footage of your residence?

 

I thought you were someone who was in favour of simpler legislation. Unless you are intentionally being contrary, you surely must see that there has to be a balance between legislating to try to prevent the spread of coronavirus, and trying to keep such legislation as simple as possible.

[Don Dan]

 

Cheap steroids save lives in severe cases

Studies show cheap steroids can save the lives of patients who are critically ill with Covid-19. The findings confirm the results of an earlier trial, which has already led to steroids being used widely for Covid patients in intensive care. The new results show eight lives would be saved for every 100 patients treated. The researchers said the findings were impressive, but stressed steroids were not a coronavirus cure. Read about the progress on treatments here.

[AlphonseCapone]

10 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

 

Cheap steroids save lives in severe cases

Studies show cheap steroids can save the lives of patients who are critically ill with Covid-19. The findings confirm the results of an earlier trial, which has already led to steroids being used widely for Covid patients in intensive care. The new results show eight lives would be saved for every 100 patients treated. The researchers said the findings were impressive, but stressed steroids were not a coronavirus cure. Read about the progress on treatments here.

 

Came on to post about that too. Some more good news. 

 

BBC News - Coronavirus: Cheap steroids save lives from severe Covid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53612397

 

Folk can peruse the article above in between the grassing chat and NS being an evil tyrant. 

[graygo]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

It has been explained that pubs and other such public venues are much more controllable as regards social distancing and anti-coronavirus measures than are indoor gatherings in folks' houses.

 

But don't let that prevent you from ranting on... 

 

So if pubs are much more controllable what was the point closing the pubs down in Aberdeen for weeks on end? Also why the travel ban and not being able to meet folk indoors? 

What is happening in the west makes sense but only if you ignore the measures taken in Aberdeen because they made none.

[Governor Tarkin]

6 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Folk can peruse the article above in between the grassing chat and NS being an evil tyrant. 

 

Where's the fun in that? 😡

[JackLadd]

I see the foreign student gravy train still booming despite online classes only being announced (get them visa'd up before announcing that one). These for profit university's are a pernicious influence needing trimmed back.

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

I see the foreign student gravy train still booming despite online classes only being announced (get them visa'd up before announcing that one). These for profit university's are a pernicious influence needing trimmed back.

What do you mean exactly? That student visas are continuing to be issued to foreign students? Surely that can’t be happening. 

[JackLadd]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

What do you mean exactly? That student visas are continuing to be issued to foreign students? Surely that can’t be happening. 

 

Of course it is. It's the biggest source of non EU immigration into the UK and they ain't shutting that door.

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, **** the SPFL said:

i agree with your comments i am doing the same,  my daughter is a Haematologist based in one of Scotland's hospitals and involved in the blood analysis/testing she and colleagues are of the opinion that the virus is definitely not as virulent as it was in March although still very contagious they are only seeing a minimal increase in hospital admissions. I'm 63 now and don't want to catch it but if i do i hopefully will only show mild symptoms if any.

Thanks for sharing, ****theSPFL. Yes, that's good news if your daughter and her front line colleagues are of that opinion. It follows on from what some Italian medics were saying a while back. It's just a pity the media don't report the evidence based good news and, instead, headline the utterings of scientific modellers and their hypothetical projections. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, JackLadd said:

 

Of course it is. It's the biggest source of non EU immigration into the UK and they ain't shutting that door.

 

Just now, JackLadd said:

 

Of course it is. It's the biggest source of non EU immigration into the UK and they ain't shutting that door.

Hadn’t thought about it until o read your post. Surely to **** the government should be discouraging this. Mind boggling. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Brian Dundas said:

I very much hope things continue as they are and things can return too normal, I can't wait to get back to the football and it wouldn't be the same if we couldn't hug random strangers after scoring against Hibs.  Lets hope it is becoming safer for everyone.

 

As to the International Travel, I can understand what they are trying to do, but it can be very difficult for individuals affected by it. We went to Greece and decided to stay away from everyone on our return anyway as a precaution.

Yes, it would be great to get back to those days again. Having said that, beating Hibs at Hampden, behind closed doors,  next month will still be an acceptable 2nd best👍. 

You got back from Greece just in time though but, yes, I agree, I would do the same if you didn't have to quarantine.  Still do the shopping at quiet times but miss out on indoor hospitality for a couple of weeks.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

So if pubs are much more controllable what was the point closing the pubs down in Aberdeen for weeks on end? Also why the travel ban and not being able to meet folk indoors? 

What is happening in the west makes sense but only if you ignore the measures taken in Aberdeen because they made none.

 

That's actually an interesting point. Evidence showed that the cluster in Aberdeen was due to transmission in pubs (quite a number of them too) and other hospitality-based locations. The Government had no idea how many people were infected but, since many pub-goers were infected or at risk, it made more sense to prevent the pub-goers from spreading it further in other pubs. Basically, the idea was to take the pub-goer element out of the equation for a while. Also, on a lesser level, I suppose the Council needed to go round and check that locations had properly put their coronavirus procedures in place and this couldn't be done overnight.

 

I think the decision might have been different if the 5th of August hadn't thrown up 30 infections (it doesn't seem a lot now, but it was at the time when the whole of Scotland had produced less infections per day for 6 weeks or so) and if it had only affected 1 or 2 pubs. As it happened, local lockdown was instigated on the 6th. Remember that the pub element was only part of the lockdown instigated in Aberdeen - aspects such as leisure travel, visiting other households, etc. were also curtailed.

 

On the contrary, the cluster in Glasgow appears to come from the folk who attended indoor parties and other events. The idea is therefore to focus on this set of folk by reducing their activities.

 

So, the common theme in both clusters is "Stop the subset of the population who appear to be the cause of the cluster from doing their thing for a while" and ramp up contact tracing to try and nip it in the bud.

 

I appreciate that we'll never know how Aberdeen would have fared without a local lockdown, but the infection stats coming out of Aberdeen at the moment are definitely illustrative of success (at one point we were talking 20-30 infections a day, the last few days have been 1, 4, 1, 1, 2, 2). The Tayside cluster appears to have been brought very much under control too, which is great to see.

 

[JackLadd]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

 

Hadn’t thought about it until o read your post. Surely to **** the government should be discouraging this. Mind boggling. 

Spoiler

 

 

It's a nonsense. And in Scotland they want bailed out for £190m to keep the same gig going. £190m to run online classes for their huge fgn student pops that could be sitting at a laptop in their own country. Exposes it what it is though.

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

That's actually an interesting point. Evidence showed that the cluster in Aberdeen was due to transmission in pubs (quite a number of them too) and other hospitality-based locations. The Government had no idea how many people were infected but, since many pub-goers were infected or at risk, it made more sense to prevent the pub-goers from spreading it further in other pubs. Basically, the idea was to take the pub-goer element out of the equation for a while. Also, on a lesser level, I suppose the Council needed to go round and check that locations had properly put their coronavirus procedures in place and this couldn't be done overnight.

 

I think the decision might have been different if the 5th of August hadn't thrown up 30 infections (it doesn't seem a lot now, but it was at the time when the whole of Scotland had produced less infections per day for 6 weeks or so) and if it had only affected 1 or 2 pubs. As it happened, local lockdown was instigated on the 6th. Remember that the pub element was only part of the lockdown instigated in Aberdeen - aspects such as leisure travel, visiting other households, etc. were also curtailed.

 

On the contrary, the cluster in Glasgow appears to come from the folk who attended indoor parties and other events. The idea is therefore to focus on this set of folk by reducing their activities.

 

So, the common theme in both clusters is "Stop the subset of the population who appear to be the cause of the cluster from doing their thing for a while" and ramp up contact tracing to try and nip it in the bud.

 

I appreciate that we'll never know how Aberdeen would have fared without a local lockdown, but the infection stats coming out of Aberdeen at the moment are definitely illustrative of success (at one point we were talking 20-30 infections a day, the last few days have been 1, 4, 1, 1, 2, 2). The Tayside cluster appears to have been brought very much under control too, which is great to see.

 

 

All fair enough on the face of it but still doesn't make sense to stop people visiting others indoors but allow them to meet up in pubs. Like Aberdeen, the government have no idea how many are infected so why allow them to go to pubs. 

[Governor Tarkin]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You got back from Greece just in time though but, yes, I agree, I would do the same if you didn't have to quarantine.  Still do the shopping at quiet times but miss out on indoor hospitality for a couple of weeks.

 

All the right-minded kids have been playing it this safe all along, Enzo. 

With a continuation of the common sense that the vast majority of the population have been showing we will see the back of this yet.

Happier times lay ahead, mate.👍

[redjambo]

26 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

So if pubs are much more controllable what was the point closing the pubs down in Aberdeen for weeks on end? Also why the travel ban and not being able to meet folk indoors? 

What is happening in the west makes sense but only if you ignore the measures taken in Aberdeen because they made none.

 

Sorry, graygo, I realise that I didn't answer all of your question.

 

Why the ban in Aberdeen on travel and meeting other folk inside? I reckon simply because it was the first cluster. Things had been going remarkably smoothly for almost 2 months, infection-wise, and it looked as if we had a handle on things. Then suddenly Aberdeen shot up. It was always going to be the case that the first cluster was going to be treated with an overabundance of caution. In the future, as we go along, with each cluster that arises, I imagine that the reaction will be more refined and focused, hopefully learning from each cluster.

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Brighton Jambo said:

My wife has a work event tomorrow in a colleagues garden.  It will be more than three households but won’t be going into the house.  Looking at the guidance we think it’s fine but does anyone know for definite?

 

thanks 

I honestly wouldn’t care a shiny one bud. 
That’s me though I’m a selfish twit. 

[graygo]

8 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

So, the common theme in both clusters is "Stop the subset of the population who appear to be the cause of the cluster from doing their thing for a while" and ramp up contact tracing to try and nip it in the bud.

 

I appreciate that we'll never know how Aberdeen would have fared without a local lockdown, but the infection stats coming out of Aberdeen at the moment are definitely illustrative of success (at one point we were talking 20-30 infections a day, the last few days have been 1, 4, 1, 1, 2, 2). The Tayside cluster appears to have been brought very much under control too, which is great to see.

 

 

Not so much "stop the subset of the population who appear to be the cause of the cluster from doing their thing for a while" more "stop them and anyone else who happen to live in the same council area."

 

Was that a success in Aberdeen? Might the cases have dwindled away without any intervention?

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

All fair enough on the face of it but still doesn't make sense to stop people visiting others indoors but allow them to meet up in pubs. Like Aberdeen, the government have no idea how many are infected so why allow them to go to pubs. 

 

I know you may not like this answer, but over and above the arguments that have been made about the safety of licensed premises nation-wide, which hopefully has been improved significantly since the Aberdeen cluster, perhaps the Government is trying to take a more focussed approach on this one to see how it works. In other words, they hope that their improved experience of contact tracing will mean that they can nip this in the bud without more stringent measures. So, it's a bit of an experiment. Whether it works or not, they will have learned a great deal about how to deal with future clusters of this kind. However, if that is the case, then they will be necessarily waiting with their finger on the lockdown trigger in case the infection figures and tracing data show that this more nuanced approach isn't working. Which is probably why they warned us that further restrictions might happen in the 3 NHS areas in question.

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I honestly wouldn’t care a shiny one bud. 
That’s me though I’m a selfish twit. 

That’s the spirit.

😃

[graygo]

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Sorry, graygo, I realise that I didn't answer all of your question.

 

Why the ban in Aberdeen on travel and meeting other folk inside? I reckon simply because it was the first cluster. Things had been going remarkably smoothly for almost 2 months, infection-wise, and it looked as if we had a handle on things. Then suddenly Aberdeen shot up. It was always going to be the case that the first cluster was going to be treated with an overabundance of caution. In the future, as we go along, with each cluster that arises, I imagine that the reaction will be more refined and focused, hopefully learning from each cluster.

 

An over reaction then?  That was the point I was trying to get to. I got the full on moan from my sister who lives in Aberdeen and I kind of agreed with her.

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Not so much "stop the subset of the population who appear to be the cause of the cluster from doing their thing for a while" more "stop them and anyone else who happen to live in the same council area."

 

Was that a success in Aberdeen? Might the cases have dwindled away without any intervention?

 

We'll never know. I doubt it to be honest, although a simple closing of the pubs might have worked.

 

It's the reason why the Government probably needs to take slightly different approaches with each cluster. They need to learn where the restrictions "sweet spot" is so that they can focus more swiftly and accurately on each cluster as it arises, and they won't know that unless they try different things.

[Captain Canada]

 

In England 7.7 per million of the population are occupying a hospital bed. However, in Scotland 46.8 per million are in a hospital bed with Covid – a rate that is nearly nine times higher.

According to Scottish government’s Coronavirus (COVID-19) definitions, the number of patients in hospital with suspected COVID-19 “may include people who are in hospital for other reasons but have previously tested positive for COVID-19.” 

 

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/is-scotland-overcounting-the-number-of-patients-in-hospital-beds/

[Back to 2005]

Deaths of patients on NHS waiting lists in Scotland doubled during the lockdown, an investigation has revealed.

Surgeons have warned that hospitals must never again be forced to cancel all planned procedures, after figures showed 381 people died in the queue for operations between April and June.

 

More victims of lockdown policy.

(From the Times)

 

 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

13 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I honestly wouldn’t care a shiny one bud. 
That’s me though I’m a selfish twit. 

You said it 

[jack D and coke]

9 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Not so much "stop the subset of the population who appear to be the cause of the cluster from doing their thing for a while" more "stop them and anyone else who happen to live in the same council area."

 

Was that a success in Aberdeen? Might the cases have dwindled away without any intervention?

It looks like we’re just not going to ever know what the virus will do without intervention. We’re going to have to look elsewhere to see as our lives are kept constantly in check. 

[jack D and coke]

Just now, Natural Orders said:

You said it 

God dam it I wanted you to say it😬

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

An over reaction then?  That was the point I was trying to get to. I got the full on moan from my sister who lives in Aberdeen and I kind of agreed with her.

 

Probably, but given the circumstances it was an understandable one, imo. Not much consolation to folk from Aberdeen, granted. They just happened to be hit by the first post-general lockdown cluster, and the first cluster with a significant community-based transmission component was always going to be an "all hands to the deck" job. Now that the Government knows how effective that "extreme" approach was, they can try different approaches, scaling the measures down and focussing them better. That's the theory anyway

[Nucky Thompson]

2 minutes ago, Captain Canada said:

 

In England 7.7 per million of the population are occupying a hospital bed. However, in Scotland 46.8 per million are in a hospital bed with Covid – a rate that is nearly nine times higher.

According to Scottish government’s Coronavirus (COVID-19) definitions, the number of patients in hospital with suspected COVID-19 “may include people who are in hospital for other reasons but have previously tested positive for COVID-19.” 

 

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/is-scotland-overcounting-the-number-of-patients-in-hospital-beds/

I noticed that a few weeks ago that Scotland seemed to have a much higher hospital rate but were doing a lot better in ICU and death rates than the rest of the UK. I found it a bit strange

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Deaths of patients on NHS waiting lists in Scotland doubled during the lockdown, an investigation has revealed.

Surgeons have warned that hospitals must never again be forced to cancel all planned procedures, after figures showed 381 people died in the queue for operations between April and June.

 

More victims of lockdown policy.

(From the Times)

 

 

How absolutely tragic and outrageous is this? Poor, poor people. 

[graygo]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

We'll never know. I doubt it to be honest, although a simple closing of the pubs might have worked.

 

It's the reason why the Government probably needs to take slightly different approaches with each cluster. They need to learn where the restrictions "sweet spot" is so that they can focus more swiftly and accurately on each cluster as it arises, and they won't know that unless they try different things.

 

Cheers red, good to hear another viewpoint to help me get my head round things 

 

I just know that if there is an outbreak where I live and it was traced to pubs and clubs but they locked us down like in Aberdeen I'd be raging. I suppose if it was down to half a dozen house parties and I was then banned from visiting family then I'd also be pissed off.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

What would you suggest? Differing guidelines depending on the square footage of your residence?

 

I thought you were someone who was in favour of simpler legislation. Unless you are intentionally being contrary, you surely must see that there has to be a balance between legislating to try to prevent the spread of coronavirus, and trying to keep such legislation as simple as possible.

Simple? 8 from 3 households or 15 from.2. Something else if  in the garden.

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

22 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

All the right-minded kids have been playing it this safe all along, Enzo. 

With a continuation of the common sense that the vast majority of the population have been showing we will see the back of this yet.

Happier times lay ahead, mate.👍

Hope you're right Guv. 👍

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I noticed that a few weeks ago that Scotland seemed to have a much higher hospital rate but were doing a lot better in ICU and death rates than the rest of the UK. I found it a bit strange

 

Yeah, me too. I assumed, perhaps naïvely, that we had just made a better job at keeping seriously ill Covid patients alive but that they were having to stay for very long periods in hospital to recover. It would certainly be an interesting question for some media person to ask at the next SG news conference.

[Back to 2005]

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

What is going on...

[Back to 2005]

10 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

What is going on...

I find it all very sinister. 

[Nucky Thompson]

That's mental for Australia considering they haven't seen the numbers that Europe has.

25,000 total cases and 663 deaths.

 

I see they are having their first recession in 30 years

[AlphonseCapone]

22 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

 

Isn't completely accurate though is it;

 

https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/stage-4-restrictions-summary-covid-19#what-is-changing-under-stage-4-restrictions

 

[Back to 2005]

6 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Isn't completely accurate though is it;

 

https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/stage-4-restrictions-summary-covid-19#what-is-changing-under-stage-4-restrictions

 

Which bit isn't accurate?. Presume you have read it all.

[AlphonseCapone]

3 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Which bit isn't accurate?. Presume you have read it all.

 

Confinment indoors for 23 hours for a start. 

 

How much did you read of the link to check your source before posting? 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

Neymar and a couple other PSG players got the COVID. 

 

Good.

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

Not really he feels fine.

Just like everyone who hasn't got health conditions or is very old

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Not really he feels fine.