Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, Thunderstruck said:

No, I’m not. Scotland’s National Clinical Director is telling you that. 
 

If you had read the post correctly, you would have seen that I was referencing the statement by the Clinical Director that the claim was “rubbish”. I sure he wouldn’t have said as much on radio without being sure of his facts. 

 

 

 

Really. This is the guy who initially supported the herd immunity notion and who told people there was no risk in attending a mass gathering. The FM in her briefing said that since that statement from Leitch they had more information and wanted to "seek assurances" from the UK health secretary.

 

 I have to point out to you though that if you quote Leitch and then tell us that he has "exploded" a "myth" then in normal discourse that would mean that you agree with him. In effect you are saying "that the PPE suppliers are not prioritising England".  You may not have used the same words as he did but you have expressed exactly the same sentiment and that was what my comment meant. 

[Cade]

Sunak coming out the Boris nonsense.

Still banging on about "levelling up" and "super charging" the economy, in the face of the worst global downturn since the Great Depression

 

[Victorian]

I don't watch the briefing now.    It's settled into a zero information / zero scrutiny charade.    

[J.T.F.Robertson]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

Trump's "Expert council" on when to relax all restrictions and re-start daily life:

 

Ivanka Trump

Jared Kushner

Mark Meadows

Larry Kudlow

Wilbur Ross

Robert Lightizer

Steven Mnuchin

 

Number of medical experts: 0

 

 

Number of malleable sycophants ......... 

 

[Victorian]

Started watching the BBC news and there's a fair bit of coverage about the economy.    

[JudyJudyJudy]

I mainly watch Channel 4 news . Its less hysterical than the state news ( BBC).  Yes theres seems to be a ramping up about the " economy" .  The narrative for the next few weeks to prepare for relaxing the lockdown.  Clearly it will be a massive error. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 hours ago, redjambo said:

Today's Scottish figures show the least folk in ICU with coronavirus since 4 April.

shush....dont want to upset the doom and gloom merchants on this....

[Shanks said no]

from BBC

 

More than one in five deaths in England and Wales is linked to coronavirus, figures show.

The Office for National Statistics data showed the virus was mentioned on 3,475 death certificates in the week ending 3 April.

It helped push the total number of deaths in that week to more than 16,000 - a record high and 6,000 more than expected at this time of year.

Normally the number of deaths falls as winter ends.

This is because there is less flu circulating.

 

 

EDIT

These figures seem a bit odd to me, looking at worldometer I am only seeing around 2,600 dead that week, and that is the whole of the UK. Following that through the UK government are  reporting less than half the deaths.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by The Frenchman Returns

[Irufushi]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

Wonder how many people are dead in their homes and haven’t been found.  

What a cheery thought 😂

[graygo]

19 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

from BBC

 

More than one in five deaths in England and Wales is linked to coronavirus, figures show.

The Office for National Statistics data showed the virus was mentioned on 3,475 death certificates in the week ending 3 April.

It helped push the total number of deaths in that week to more than 16,000 - a record high and 6,000 more than expected at this time of year.

Normally the number of deaths falls as winter ends.

This is because there is less flu circulating.

 

 

EDIT

These figures seem a bit odd to me, looking at worldometer I am only seeing around 2,600 dead that week, and that is the whole of the UK. Following that through the UK government are  reporting less than half the deaths.

 

 

 

Does the ONS data not include all deaths rather than just the NHS figures that they use in the briefings?

[Francis Albert]

25 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I mainly watch Channel 4 news . Its less hysterical than the state news ( BBC).  Yes theres seems to be a ramping up about the " economy" .  The narrative for the next few weeks to prepare for relaxing the lockdown.  Clearly it will be a massive error. 

Equally it may be a massive error to prolong lock down for too long. This is the key current policy issue so of course it is increasingly being discussed.

 

[milky_26]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Does the ONS data not include all deaths rather than just the NHS figures that they use in the briefings?

yes, the ons ones are all deaths and include where covid 19 is mentioned on the death cert. the briefings ones are the nhs reported ones from i think just hospitals

[Shanks said no]

It is probably just me misreading the data but on 28th March there were 1,018 dead and by 3rd April 3,605 (source worldometer)

 

BBC saying 3,475 in that week, so outside hospitals about add 800, which is believable, but why has the weekly total risen by 6,000, are there another 2K plus coronavirus cases unrecorded in that week?

 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

33 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I mainly watch Channel 4 news . Its less hysterical than the state news ( BBC).  Yes theres seems to be a ramping up about the " economy" .  The narrative for the next few weeks to prepare for relaxing the lockdown.  Clearly it will be a massive error. 

 

Will it? If we were continually 2 weeks behind Italy when it was going badly surely we are 2 weeks behind in being able to begin a structured and gradual re-opening the economy. Italy (and Spain as it happens the two worst hit countries in Europe) started gradual build ups today. So surely early May would keep us on track.

[milky_26]

3 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

It is probably just me misreading the data but on 28th March there were 1,018 dead and by 3rd April 3,605 (source worldometer)

 

BBC saying 3,475 in that week, so outside hospitals about add 800, which is believable, but why has the weekly total risen by 6,000, are there another 2K plus coronavirus cases unrecorded in that week?

 

 

the worldometer figures will most likely only use the daily briefing data provided by DHSC. the ONS figures do not definitively state all deaths with covid 19 on the death cert were from covid 19. the additional figures will be deaths not in the hospital in places such as care homes 

[Shanks said no]

1 minute ago, milky_26 said:

the worldometer figures will most likely only use the daily briefing data provided by DHSC. the ONS figures do not definitively state all deaths with covid 19 on the death cert were from covid 19. the additional figures will be deaths not in the hospital in places such as care homes 

There appears to be a built in lag between the figures, accounting for the 2K

Figure 2: The cumulative number of deaths involving COVID-19 in England using different data sources, up to 3 April 2020

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/articles/comparisonofweeklydeathoccurrencesinenglandandwales/uptoweekending3april2020

[graygo]

25 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Will it? If we were continually 2 weeks behind Italy when it was going badly surely we are 2 weeks behind in being able to begin a structured and gradual re-opening the economy. Italy (and Spain as it happens the two worst hit countries in Europe) started gradual build ups today. So surely early May would keep us on track.

 

I don't know about Italy but to say the re-opening of Spain is gradual is a bit of an understatement. A friend who lives there posted this on her FB page earlier today.

 

ps. Not saying that you were implying otherwise.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by graygo

[Seymour M Hersh]

4 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

I don't know about Italy but to say the re-opening of Spain is gradual is a bit of an understatement. A friend who lives there posted this on her FB page earlier today.

 

ps. Not saying that you were implying otherwise.

 

 

 

That's exactly what I was thinking about. It'll have to be slow and measured. 

[vegas-voss]

30 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Will it? If we were continually 2 weeks behind Italy when it was going badly surely we are 2 weeks behind in being able to begin a structured and gradual re-opening the economy. Italy (and Spain as it happens the two worst hit countries in Europe) started gradual build ups today. So surely early May would keep us on track.

Spain opening this up with regard to folk going back to work will be a key one to follow.Are they doing it too soon ? certainly gives us a bit of insight of things work out ok or not.

[vegas-voss]

7 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

I don't know about Italy but to say the re-opening of Spain is gradual is a bit of an understatement. A friend who lives there posted this on her FB page earlier today.

 

ps. Not saying that you were implying otherwise.

 

 

That's a big difference in how it was being reported.Much more sensible

[Thunderstruck]

2 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

Really. This is the guy who initially supported the herd immunity notion and who told people there was no risk in attending a mass gathering. The FM in her briefing said that since that statement from Leitch they had more information and wanted to "seek assurances" from the UK health secretary.

 

 I have to point out to you though that if you quote Leitch and then tell us that he has "exploded" a "myth" then in normal discourse that would mean that you agree with him. In effect you are saying "that the PPE suppliers are not prioritising England".  You may not have used the same words as he did but you have expressed exactly the same sentiment and that was what my comment meant. 

 

I’m not sure what Leitch’s views on ‘Herd Immunity’ have to do with the PPE myth. I’m sure his qualifications put him in a more authoritative position to comment than either of us.

 

It was a myth, it was baseless, without evidence and, at best, a misunderstanding. There have been many myths peddled during this outbreak, some malicious, some from misunderstanding. There are also myths perpetrated by those who wish to further a pet political aim or cause. I enjoy seeing such myths popped, burst, exploded, debunked or shot down in flames; we have enough to deal with without such malicious nonsense which is disrespectful those fighting (and dying) in a battle to save lives. 

 

Leitch was able to do that this morning and we should all be grateful for the clarification. 

 

Some see these myths and believe them implicitly.

Some see these myths and want them to be true, need them to be true.

Others enquire and research before reaching judgement.

 

I hope to always be in the latter group.

[sadj]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

I don't know about Italy but to say the re-opening of Spain is gradual is a bit of an understatement. A friend who lives there posted this on her FB page earlier today.

 

ps. Not saying that you were implying otherwise.

 

 

Was speaking to a mate in Madrid half an hour ago and she says its insane there and they cannot go out unless its for the above reasons you have mentioned.

[ramrod]

1 hour ago, vegas-voss said:

Spain opening this up with regard to folk going back to work will be a key one to follow.Are they doing it too soon ? certainly gives us a bit of insight of things work out ok or not.

Looks like the full lockdown will be continued for another 2 weeks then relaxed slightly . 

My work is being prepared for return the week beginning 27th April ( social distancing measures etc ) and full employee return week beginning 4th May . 

I doubt they would have shared this information with us unless they'd been in contact with other business leaders / govt officials. 

[GinRummy]

39 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Looks like the full lockdown will be continued for another 2 weeks then relaxed slightly . 

My work is being prepared for return the week beginning 27th April ( social distancing measures etc ) and full employee return week beginning 4th May . 

I doubt they would have shared this information with us unless they'd been in contact with other business leaders / govt officials. 

How would your work know? Is it a huge corporation with links to politicians?

[ramrod]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

How would your work know? Is it a huge corporation with links to politicians?

Nah just a production factory with a couple of hundred employees. 

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Nah just a production factory with a couple of hundred employees. 

I think you could be open now if social distancing were observed, without any loosening of restrictions. 
 

I just think if the info you suggested was out there it would have leaked to the press by now. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by GinRummy

[Dawnrazor]

When will the government stop paying the furloughed workers? 

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

When will the government stop paying the furloughed workers? 

They’ve not said. Was initially 3 months backdated to start of March but they said they’d extend it if need be. 

[ramrod]

11 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I think you could be open now if social distancing were observed, without any loosening of restrictions. 

Possibly but we were open right up to the Monday full lockdown was announced and closed on govt advice . 

Couldn't see us being allowed back to work under full lockdown restrictions as we're def not essential to the economy. 

Lools like we're going back on the 4th May if things don't deteriorate I could be wrong but I couldn't see it being under full lockdown restrictions. Time will tell I suppose . Hopefully we're on the right track  or expected to be quite soon . 

Edited April 14, 2020 by ramrod

[Greedy Jambo]

I love kebabs man. 

[JackLadd]

I am starting to doubt the line that the appalling wet markets were the source, more likely the dodgy Wuhan lab that was studying coronaviruses in bats. Appears the US was warned repeatedly in 2018 about the shocking state of this facility and risk of pandemic coming from it. Chinese are covering it all up right now and hindering investigations into what the real source was. Absolutely shocking stuff.

[neilnunb]

Trump going to town on the WHO 😁

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

I’m not sure what Leitch’s views on ‘Herd Immunity’ have to do with the PPE myth. I’m sure his qualifications put him in a more authoritative position to comment than either of us.

 

It was a myth, it was baseless, without evidence and, at best, a misunderstanding. There have been many myths peddled during this outbreak, some malicious, some from misunderstanding. There are also myths perpetrated by those who wish to further a pet political aim or cause. I enjoy seeing such myths popped, burst, exploded, debunked or shot down in flames; we have enough to deal with without such malicious nonsense which is disrespectful those fighting (and dying) in a battle to save lives. 

 

Leitch was able to do that this morning and we should all be grateful for the clarification. 

 

Some see these myths and believe them implicitly.

Some see these myths and want them to be true, need them to be true.

Others enquire and research before reaching judgement.

 

I hope to always be in the latter group.

 

Firstly there is no PPE myth. That is entirely your invention as far as i can see. 

 

Leitch's views on Herd 'Immunity' are relevant because despite him telling the press in an interview that this was how the Virus would be defeated as far as i can see it was never Scottish government policy. There was and still is considerable doubt as to whether herd immunity is possible anyway.

 

He also told the public it would be safe to attend a Lewis Capaldi concert on the grounds that mass events were only being cancelled because they diverted emergency staff and not because mass events were likely to increase the transmission of the disease. These are two myths perpetrated by Leitch which are damaging to the fight against the virus. His statement this morning relating to PPE is another thoughtless contribution clarifying nothing IMO. It occurred to me that the FM did not take his comments well either as she sought reassurance from the UK gov on the matter. Some might wonder why it took the FM so long to sack the former CMO might it be because she did not want Leitch to replace her? Leitch may have qualifications and these have undoubtedly put him in a more "authoritative position" as you suggest but it is decision making based on knowledge, understanding, facts and events that should determine outcomes not qualifications. Leitch, like his predecessor has shown himself to be wanting in the absolute basics.

 

You claim that the notion that PPE supplies were being prioritised for the English NHS was "baseless" and "without evidence". The trouble with that though is that there was evidence and a lot of it. That came in the form of Scottish care homes attempting to buy PPE form English based suppliers but being unable to do so because they  were not registered with NHS England. They knew this because that information was attached to the online order form see Mark Mclaughlin's or Chris Musson's twitter feeds. If you look at the Gompels site you will see that the company are apologising for not being able to supply Scotland and Wales. https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2145700/ppe-distributor-at-the-heart-of-a-cross-border-storm-defends-decision-to-send-anti-coronavirus-kit-to-english-care-homes/

 

You may be right though that this thing is a misunderstanding but it most definitely is not a myth. Myths are invented stories and ironically that's what you have done here. You are trying to make out that this possible PPE diversion was made up by somebody with a political agenda when in fact that is not the case at all. You are tho one who has invented a story and you are the one with the political agenda. If only you had enquired and researched properly you would have known what had transpired. 

[CavySlaveJambo]

Trump stopped funding the WHO because he thinks they have been complacent over the spread of SARS-CoV2. 
 

[Pans Jambo]

42 minutes ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

Trump stopped funding the WHO because he thinks they have been complacent over the spread of SARS-CoV2. 
 

Trump not aware of “Pot Kettle Black” saying then?

[CavySlaveJambo]

Ok he called it collusion and then said China did a good job of controlling Coronavirus when no one believes their actual case figures. 

[graygo]

47 minutes ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

Trump stopped funding the WHO because he thinks they have been complacent over the spread of SARS-CoV2. 
 

 

First time I've ever seen it called that, had to Google it.

Ignorance on my part obviously but I'm sure I'm not alone in that, can I ask why you called it that other than that you are very informed?

No offence intended CSJ.

[Zico]

1 hour ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

Trump stopped funding the WHO because he thinks they have been complacent over the spread of SARS-CoV2. 
 

He is a ****ing idiot. US were the WHO’s number one funder until they held back on $100m of payments. China are number two which means any info the WHO provides excludes Taiwan, HK and anything else the Chinese don’t want out there (as has happened already due to the withheld payments). His isolationist bullshit was obvious and longer term with NATO etc but it’s now going to kill people. Soon and in his own country. ****ing hell. 

[graygo]

Just had a quick look at how much each country pays to WHO and for 2920 the figures are -

USA $115million

China $55million

UK $22million

 

Total payments are $489million

 

Not quite the figures I've heard Trump trumpeting but still a fair whack out of Who's budget.

[ri Alban]

4 hours ago, graygo said:

Just had a quick look at how much each country pays to WHO and for 2920 the figures are -

USA $115million

China $55million

UK $22million

 

Total payments are $489million

 

Not quite the figures I've heard Trump trumpeting but still a fair whack out of Who's budget.

Roger and Pete must be minted.

[Hasselhoff]

17 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

That is indeed my understanding. Some people on here seem to be better informed than us though.

Do you equally condemn the SNP fanzine, The National, for publishing that “Westminster tells vital PPE supply firms to send stock to England, but not to deal with Scotland or Wales”?

 

How do they know WM did this?

[ri Alban]

6 minutes ago, Hasselhoff said:

Do you equally condemn the SNP fanzine, The National, for publishing that “Westminster tells vital PPE supply firms to send stock to England, but not to deal with Scotland or Wales”?

 

How do they know WM did this?

One company is still claiming this. So I'll take it as true.

[Tommy Brown]

Whether you like Piers Morgan or not, he doesnt shirk trying to get answers.

 

He has Helen Whateley MP, Care Minister absolutely rocked.

 

He's haranguing her for laughing. Great interview

[Hasselhoff]

3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

One company is still claiming this. So I'll take it as true.

can you show me a link showing a company say that Westminster has told them that? 

[ri Alban]

On 13/04/2020 at 16:12, Tommy Brown said:

Trying not to be a dick here.

 

Is there fares available, I would have thought drivers were finding fares way down as we go on. Seems to me, a wrong place to go looking for work.

Sorry Tommy I missed this. Seems the money is in the back shift. 

[ri Alban]

5 minutes ago, Hasselhoff said:

can you show me a link showing a company say that Westminster has told them that? 

On  radio Scotland news. I'm sure you can find it if you try.

[Hasselhoff]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

On  radio Scotland news. I'm sure you can find it if you try.

 

ok, I’ll give you a link then 

 

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2145700/ppe-distributor-at-the-heart-of-a-cross-border-storm-defends-decision-to-send-anti-coronavirus-kit-to-english-care-homes/
 

This has direct quotes from the company that is being referred to throughout. 

[The Mighty Thor]

12 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

Whether you like Piers Morgan or not, he doesnt shirk trying to get answers.

 

He has Helen Whateley MP, Care Minister absolutely rocked.

 

He's haranguing her for laughing. Great interview

She'll not enjoy watching that again. 

 

He absolutely rag dolled her. 

 

Its moments like her laughing, clearly uncomfortable with getting hammered, that come back to haunt them. 

 

He did the same to Theresa Coffey who knew the answer to nothing, despite being put forward as a minister. 

 

 

[dobmisterdobster]

9 hours ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

Trump stopped funding the WHO because he thinks they have been complacent over the spread of SARS-CoV2. 
 

 

It's all politics. By doing this he is forcing his opponents into defending the WHO and the Beijing dictatorship.

[Montgomery Brewster]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/52282117/italy-s-coronavirus-lockdown-puts-restaurants-out-of-business
 

This is grim news and could be a taste of things to come for us here in Scotland

Edited April 15, 2020 by Montgomery Brewster