Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[William H. Bonney]

42 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

What can they do if they offer the vaccine but people refuse it?

They won't make it mandatory 

I think certain things we do in the future will require proof of vaccination. In particular, travelling abroad. You can’t stop people living their lives here but if you want to board a plane, prove you’re vaccinated. 
 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, Furious Styles said:

I think certain things we do in the future will require proof of vaccination. In particular, travelling abroad. You can’t stop people living their lives here but if you want to board a plane, prove you’re vaccinated. 
 

 

It's a very small step from having to prove you have a negative covid result before you can board a plane to having to prove you've had the vaccine to board the plane.

 

I also think that travel insurance will ask whether you've had the vaccine and if you haven't you'll either be refused or have to pay a lot more.

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

No, plenty of people, including on this thread, are wanting (sometimes demanding) tougher and more draconian measures. 

Exactly what I said 

[Weakened Offender]

19 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

No, plenty of people, including on this thread, are wanting (sometimes demanding) tougher and more draconian measures. 

 

They're not really though, are they? You're just reaching out to the morons now. 

[redjambo]

Scottish numbers: 10 January 2021

Summary

• 1,877 new cases of COVID-19 reported [+8]
• 20,968 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results – 10.0% of these were positive [-5,384; +1.3%]
• 3 new reported deaths of people who have tested positive (noting that Register Offices are now generally closed at weekends) [-90]
• 123 people are in intensive care with recently confirmed COVID-19 [+14]
• 1,598 people are in hospital with recently confirmed COVID-19 [+2]

[Enzo Chiefo]

Devi Sridhar now talking as if the vaccine is just a small part of the plan, that we can't just "open up in the summer " and we should be preparing for NEXT winter, to avoid another lockdown😄.

We are constantly told 1 in 30, 1 in 20 in London have the virus and this has been the pattern for weeks now, surely,if that's the case and adding the first wave, we must be well on the way to herd immunity?? There will be no excuse for opening up the economy after the 4 priority groups have been vaccinated. The economy, mental health, people's right to liberty etc will far outweigh any benefit or desire to control a virus that will have little or no impact on most people's health.  The governments should start to rein in those scientists who are starting to enjoy their spell of fame and TV appearances just a bit much. Sorry, Devi pet, it's back to the day job for you shortly. Normal life will resume

 

 

[Robbofan99]

4 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

They're not really though, are they? You're just reaching out to the morons now. 

You really are an obnoxious , contrary , argumentative  and divisive prick on this . Every other comment from you is ridiculing someone or their views . Then being arrogant enough to believe that your views are the supreme view .  “ Weak “ what a well chosen user name 

[redjambo]

Per-100,000 case rates around the boards today:

 

Scotland 34 [=]

 

Dumfries & Galloway 57 [+27], Greater Glasgow 45 [+4], Lanarkshire 42 [-4], Tayside 40 [+6].

 

Ayrshire 38 [+8], Borders 34 [-4], Fife 32 [+4], Grampian 32 [-2], Forth Valley 24 [-5], Highland 21 [-9], Lothian 21 [-5], Shetland 13 [+4].

 

Orkney 0 [-13], Western Isles: 0 [-11].

[Robbofan99]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Devi Sridhar now talking as if the vaccine is just a small part of the plan, that we can't just "open up in the summer " and we should be preparing for NEXT winter, to avoid another lockdown😄.

We are constantly told 1 in 30, 1 in 20 in London have the virus and this has been the pattern for weeks now, surely,if that's the case and adding the first wave, we must be well on the way to herd immunity?? There will be no excuse for opening up the economy after the 4 priority groups have been vaccinated. The economy, mental health, people's right to liberty etc will far outweigh any benefit or desire to control a virus that will have little or no impact on most people's health.  The governments should start to rein in those scientists who are starting to enjoy their spell of fame and TV appearances just a bit much. Sorry, Devi pet, it's back to the day job for you shortly. Normal life will resume

 

 

She’s another boot who is loving the tv exposure like Bauld , Leitch et al . Yes she needs to reign in her views as it can only cause anxiety for people . She’s another mouth piece for the snp 

[redjambo]

29 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

No, plenty of people, including on this thread, are wanting (sometimes demanding) tougher and more draconian measures. 

 

Does wanting a better enforcement of the measures that we already have, while at the same time appealing to everyone to do their bit in protecting the health of their fellow citizens count?

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, Robbofan99 said:

She’s another boot who is loving the tv exposure like Bauld , Leitch et al . Yes she needs to reign in her views as it can only cause anxiety for people . She’s another mouth piece for the snp 

Yip. We've had our fill of their views and advice and come to our own conclusions. We've passed the common sense threshold. What does she think happens to jobs, businesses,  leisure, travel , children's education, exams and future prospects?? I don't expect her to have a grasp of real life and behaviours but it's still insane that she and her ilk are so consumed with a feckin virus that they can't see past the end of their nose.

[Robbofan99]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yip. We've had our fill of their views and advice and come to our own conclusions. We've passed the common sense threshold. What does she think happens to jobs, businesses,  leisure, travel , children's education, exams and future prospects?? I don't expect her to have a grasp of real life and behaviours but it's still insane that she and her ilk are so consumed with a feckin virus that they can't see past the end of their nose.

Exactly no consideration  given to those suffering severe Hardship etc due to covid responses . Typically self attitude of the lock down zealots 

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, Robbofan99 said:

Exactly no consideration  given to those suffering severe Hardship etc due to covid responses . Typically self attitude of the lock down zealots 

Unaffected themselves of course. The University will pay her salary regardless. She wants to take the blinkers off and go out and get some fresh air.

[Robbofan99]

11 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Does wanting a better enforcement of the measures that we already have, while at the same time appealing to everyone to do their bit in protecting the health of their fellow citizens count?

Oh stop with your hippie rhetoric . It comes over as very passive aggressive . He is right there are posters on this not at all interested on the impact of of covid restrictions on some people but just never stop going on about it more harsh and punitive restrictions . And if u Do reply please no smiley face emoji at the end as that’s another one of your passive aggressive traits I’ve noticed . 

[Robbofan99]

6 minutes ago, Barack said:

I'm selfishly hoping for Hancock's targets to be met. We could all do with a holiday, if affordable. I'll be paying for a test upto 72 hours before travelling, if I still have to.

 

That's not until September, so I should be ok. But if the top 4 categories are done, or near as possible by Valentine's Day, then restrictions should be well on the way to relaxing nationwide come May.

 

Hopefully Biden pulls the finger out, & gets America sorted enough in time for my return in November too.😎

 

 

 

 

 

Don’t bet on restrictions being lifted . Once a Govt realises it’s people can bf easily controlled they will not want To give up those powers 

[Beni]

38 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

i have answered your question as your initial query was very fair in fact I answered it also because it’s not impossible someone else may have raised a similar query

 

This was my question.

 

3 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

 

could you provide the raw data your 50000 flu deaths (in an outlying year) are based on? 

 

And given your post below that 48000/50000 excess flu deaths are easily verified on Google, it should be easy for you to provide a link to the raw data.

 

12 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

1999/2000 excess flu deaths 48,000 from the government website - at no stage did I say or infer that was an average figure

 

i think it was above 50,000 in a recent year

 

not  a dodgy statistic in any way mate that’s a mistake by yourself - as I say feel free to google it   

 

However despite claiming that the raw data is out there

 

2 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

the raw data is out there rather than that i’ll provide an explanation which you can agree with or otherwise - the years I was referring to were 1999/2000 and 2017/18 and the numbers are termed excess winter deaths as you may already know from your google search

 

the reason I used them were for context and to compare like with like

 

the commentary in those years is that they were dominated buy heavy flu strain poor flu vaccine and the nhs being overwhelmed (bbc reporting about people spending nights on trolleys etc)

 

so flu played a direct direct part in the mortality a contributory part in the mortality (but not necessarily on the death certificate and wider part in helping to overwhelm the nhs ie not dissimilar to the debates around covid deaths

 

you will see on this page I mentioned to another poster about this flu reference too in that is used interchangeably with excess winter deaths - Carl heneghan for example referring to 50,000 flu deaths in the Financial Times

 

the original comparison was all those covid and covid (from covid and with score I’d etc) deaths the reporting of which has been highly debated on one side and the excess winter deaths ie flu deaths and flu related deaths on the other side - all are outlier years - I think that’s a fair comparison

 

the original question was would lockdown have an impact on these years - if you believe lockdown has some impact (almost everyone I think) then the answer to this is yes - the amount of impact is debatable and you will see I have deliberately referred to less than the half lives being potentially saved

 

now know one is perfect including me given my barded reply in response to ri’s barbed reply but then red dives in

 

all that’s required is a do you mean of flu or with flu type question - is that an appropriate comparison to from covid with covid and all the resulting things wrapped-up in the reporting and the effect of the nhs being overwhelmed

 

as do you think restrictions etc should be considered for future years is there a threshold number of lives you would keep them for like where saving even 40% could result in 20,000 lives saved?

 

maybe 3 weeks in December or something? don’t cancel Christmas but promote a form off social distancing and shielding etc?

 

You've yet to come up with it.

If it's out there and easily found on Google, can you please provide it?

 

It looks like you're getting confused between winter deaths and flu deaths, and having got on your high horse when challenged by other posters you're finding it a bit difficult to admit your mistake and climb back down. There's a lot of stats out there so it's easy to lose track.

[Shanks]

36 minutes ago, Furious Styles said:

I think certain things we do in the future will require proof of vaccination. In particular, travelling abroad. You can’t stop people living their lives here but if you want to board a plane, prove you’re vaccinated. 
 

There’s a whole host of people with various reasons that they can’t take the vaccine.  They allowed on the plane? 
 

 

[Robbofan99]

4 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Unaffected themselves of course. The University will pay her salary regardless. She wants to take the blinkers off and go out and get some fresh air.

Aye like I said selfish boot 

[Robbofan99]

3 minutes ago, Shanks said:

There’s a whole host of people with various reasons that they can’t take the vaccine.  They allowed on the plane? 
 

 

No Its their brave new world I’m afraid . 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Robbofan99

[William H. Bonney]

1 minute ago, Shanks said:

There’s a whole host of people with various reasons that they can’t take the vaccine.  They allowed on the plane? 
 

 

not my decision. 

[Pasquale for King]

44 minutes ago, Furious Styles said:

I think certain things we do in the future will require proof of vaccination. In particular, travelling abroad. You can’t stop people living their lives here but if you want to board a plane, prove you’re vaccinated. 
 

I agree but the evidence of how liberal they’ve been with testing of people in and out of the U.K. up until now shows they won’t do this. 
But you may well need to show you’ve had it if you want to fly to places with far stricter restrictions on flights in and out. 

[Serge]

20 minutes ago, Robbofan99 said:

She’s another boot who is loving the tv exposure like Bauld , Leitch et al . Yes she needs to reign in her views as it can only cause anxiety for people . She’s another mouth piece for the snp 

Smoking hot though!

 

[Shanks]

2 minutes ago, Furious Styles said:

not my decision. 

Just you said ‘you think’ folk will need to prove they have had a vaccine to get on a plane.  Was just curious but looks like you haven’t really thought about it at all.  
 

 

[Auldbenches]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

He blocked me on Twitter . He’s a fud . Upper class  white privileged  arse . I questioned him about his view of why there aren’t many working class actors rising through the ranks now ( variety of reasons ) but mainly due to financial reasons ( uni fees ) but also the old boys network and nepotism . His dad is James Fox and his uncle Edward , both mostly known for playing upper class twits   . He argued that this was not the case . .? Obviously the acting has dried up so he’s desperate to get a platform of some sort now 

He basically used that question time appearance to brand himself as some sort of bohemian Farage/Hopkins when he is really just a spoilt brat who wants the right to offend anyone.   

I hope his quest for free speech costs him a boot up the arse.  

Is it obligatory for the offspring of those who have made it to act like they do?  

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

The U.K. currently has 6.4% of Covid cases in the world with 0.87 of the population. They did promise a World beating response. 
https://www.worldometers.info/

Edited January 10, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[William H. Bonney]

5 minutes ago, Shanks said:

Just you said ‘you think’ folk will need to prove they have had a vaccine to get on a plane.  Was just curious but looks like you haven’t really thought about it at all.  
 

 

What I think and what governments do are two different things. 
I think of you can’t for some medical reason have the vaccine you may be required to isolate for a certain period of time upon arrival on holiday. Which will of course put people of. 
Again, just my opinion. Of which I’ve thought about. 

[redjambo]

21 minutes ago, Robbofan99 said:

Oh stop with your hippie rhetoric . It comes over as very passive aggressive . He is right there are posters on this not at all interested on the impact of of covid restrictions on some people but just never stop going on about it more harsh and punitive restrictions . And if u Do reply please no smiley face emoji at the end as that’s another one of your passive aggressive traits I’ve noticed . 

 

Would you prefer that I were more active aggressive?

[Fire_At_The_Disco]

This new info re trades

 

https://www.bikbbi.org.uk/news/scotland-updated-advice-for-tradespeople-2/?fbclid=IwAR2VEgqk2-P8m0JxFJOUXXPx71g_oxsFyXPzBXdhn0EC5ry1Qy4mwFSGSWs

[Jambo-Jimbo]

12 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I think shanks is mistaken when he says people will not be able to take the vaccine, there are loads of different ones in development. 

 

Moving forward's I can see future covid vaccines catering for people with certain allergies, in much the same way as the flu jab is formulated for different people who are allergic to eggs and whatever else.  Of course there will still be the odd one or two who can't take it at all, but they will be few and far between I'd imagine.

[redjambo]

Today's per-capita 7-day case rates around the councils.

 

			7-day per-100,000 cases
Council Area	Tier	Previous	Today	Yesterday				8 Jan	7 Jan	6 Jan	5 Jan	...	20 Dec
Scotland			278	288	-10			293	298	297	297	...	98
Inverclyde	4	2	438	456	-18			501	568	581	578	...	59
Dumfries & Galloway	4	1	421	468	-47			527	551	532	536	...	32
Renfrewshire	4	3	419	439	-20			449	439	430	415	...	116
North Lanarkshire	4	3	413	417	-4			417	416	419	402	...	119
Glasgow City	4	3	361	357	+4			356	344	327	316	...	129
Dundee City	4	3	350	360	-10			384	392	390	382	...	113
North Ayrshire	4	3	341	338	+3			335	337	331	321	...	175
South Lanarkshire	4	3	322	322	0			308	304	300	278	...	120
East Ayrshire	4	3	320	338	-18			366	382	378	366	...	153
Scottish Borders	4	1	313	401	-88			416	435	440	432	...	85
Falkirk	4	2	305	315	-10			314	301	300	270	...	60
Aberdeen City	4	3	289	281	+8			300	298	284	277	...	163
Perth and Kinross	4	3	289	260	+29			269	269	254	219	...	126
East Dunbartonshire	4	3	285	283	+2			284	307	290	265	...	70
Aberdeenshire	4	3	277	288	-11			295	291	265	259	...	88
Angus	4	2	267	260	+7			258	259	231	231	...	37
South Ayrshire	4	3	266	259	+7			268	268	234	214	...	98
East Renfrewshire	4	3	265	278	-13			331	372	372	365	...	101
West Dunbartonshire	4	3	254	241	+13			242	258	241	251	...	120
Clackmannanshire	4	3	250	241	+9			246	229	213	194	...	148
Edinburgh City	4	3	224	224	0			230	237	242	239	...	109
Fife	4	3	221	219	+2			224	222	212	195	...	97
Highland	4/3	1	215	212	+3			241	237	213	186	...	17
Midlothian	4	3	205	200	+5			207	210	212	204	...	136
Stirling	4	3	168	169	-1			134	131	134	142	...	70
West Lothian	4	3	164	161	+3			165	179	177	175	...	83
East Lothian	4	3	145	154	-9			165	150	142	147	...	148
Moray	4	1	141	139	+2			143	145	125	123	...	13
Shetland Islands	3	1	105	131	-26			209	231	275	240	...	0
Argyll and Bute	4/3	2	76	82	-6			89	95	95	85	...	29
Na h-Eileanan Siar	3	1	19	19	0			41	49	49	49	...	22
Orkney Islands	3	1	13	9	+4			9	4	4	0	...	0

[The Mighty Thor]

52 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

What happened in the summer with restrictions once the deaths etc were down to zero?

One answer to that is they opened the schools and Uni's and here we are. 

[Footballfirst]

@redjambo Following on from your own efforts and that of Travelling Tabby I've used "Flourish" to generate a couple of graphs for Covid hospital and ICU bed occupancy which you can select by Health Board.  The data has come from the daily updates on the gov.scot website.

 

I'm just experimenting and learning how to use the basics just now but it looks like a useful platform to illustrate data and trends You might want to try it yourself. 

 

Hospital bed occupancy - https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/4918204/

ICU bed occupancy - https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/4913141/

Edited January 10, 2021 by Footballfirst

[Nucky Thompson]

8 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

One answer to that is they opened the schools and Uni's and here we are. 

Do you really believe that? 

From August to December, there was 5 positive cases at my daughters high school

[Dennis Reynolds]

3 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

@redjambo Following on from your own efforts and that of Travelling Tabby I've used "Flourish" to generate a couple of graphs for Covid hospital and ICU bed occupancy which you can select by Health Board.  The data has come from the daily updates on the gov.scot website.

 

I'm just experimenting and learning how to use the basics just now but it looks like a useful platform to illustrate data and trends You might want to try it yourself. 

 

Hospital bed occupancy - https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/4918204/

ICU bed occupancy - https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/4913141/

 

They're really good. Thanks.

[Footballfirst]

14 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

One answer to that is they opened the schools and Uni's and here we are. 

 

3 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Do you really believe that? 

From August to December, there was 5 positive cases at my daughters high school

 

If you look at the incidence over time, then you can see case numbers almost at zero at the end of June, they started to pick up slowly in early July (Hospitality started opening up and people went on holiday). 

 

The next uptick was in the first half of August driven by the Aberdeen pub cases. Following on from that in the 3rd/4th week of August we saw a spike from the Coupar Angus food processing factory outbreak.

 

However, that upturn continued now across the country as schools returned in the middle of August, then went up sharply again in the second half of September when students returned to college and universities.  We have never recovered from the community spread that followed.

 

 

[Footballfirst]

The figures I really would like to see are hospital admissions and ICU bed use by age group.  As the vaccination programme progresses, we will hopefully be able to see the raw numbers/percentages falling for the oldest age groups, assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin (or vial).

[Cade]

Doctors saying that cold&flu cases are down to a quarter of the 5-year average as people are socially distancing and the uptake of the flu jab is way up this year.

 

So flu is down when it's usually up.

 

So the big surge is down to covid and not just normal winter flu.

[The Mighty Thor]

24 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Do you really believe that? 

From August to December, there was 5 positive cases at my daughters high school

Yes. Yes I do.

Not so much the schools but we'll never know as there's still no routine mass testing. 

12 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

 

If you look at the incidence over time, then you can see case numbers almost at zero at the end of June, they started to pick up slowly in early July (Hospitality started opening up and people went on holiday). 

 

The next uptick was in the first half of August driven by the Aberdeen pub cases. Following on from that in the 3rd/4th week of August we saw a spike from the Coupar Angus food processing factory outbreak.

 

However, that upturn continued now across the country as schools returned in the middle of August, then went up sharply again in the second half of September when students returned to college and universities.  We have never recovered from the community spread that followed.

 

 

Again, like with the borders still being open, the lack of foresight that opening centres of mass gathering with zero mitigation would end up in a situation that cannot be controlled. 

Lunacy then, gross negligence now. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 hour ago, fancy a brew said:

 

This was my question.

 

 

And given your post below that 48000/50000 excess flu deaths are easily verified on Google, it should be easy for you to provide a link to the raw data.

 

 

However despite claiming that the raw data is out there

 

 

You've yet to come up with it.

If it's out there and easily found on Google, can you please provide it?

 

It looks like you're getting confused between winter deaths and flu deaths, and having got on your high horse when challenged by other posters you're finding it a bit difficult to admit your mistake and climb back down. There's a lot of stats out there so it's easy to lose track.

 

all those points have been addressed 

 

are you misunderstanding my recognition that flu deaths and excess winter deaths are not the same numbers but they are used interchangeably by for example Carl Heneghan at times in particular when comparing to covid as there are a lot of unknowns and approximations in both sides of the equation - do you understand that now mate? do u see where I’ve addressed it in the previous replies? you may of course disagree with the use of my numbers and terminology but I’ve explained my reasoning

 

you asked me to provide links to the data I have chosen not to but have addressed the point fully

 

if you want to debate the points as I said some of them are debatable then happy to do so - I’ve you want me to pretend that I think that excess flu deaths and excess winter deaths are exactly the same thing then I’m not going to do that - it is fully understandable from my previous reply that I recognise that they are different and I have explained why I have chosen to pair the terminology and the numbers I’ve used - you are welcome to debate why you believe that’s not the most appropriate for this comparison in the context of the original question

 

do you understand now? (although maybe not agree - which is fine too)

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Auldbenches said:

He basically used that question time appearance to brand himself as some sort of bohemian Farage/Hopkins when he is really just a spoilt brat who wants the right to offend anyone.   

I hope his quest for free speech costs him a boot up the arse.  

Is it obligatory for the offspring of those who have made it to act like they do?  

 

 

Yes classic case of poor little rich boy searching for an identity.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Are there government figures on the number of vaccinations being delivered? 

[Auldbenches]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Yes classic case of poor little rich boy searching for an identity.

You've summed him up better than I could with one sentence.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

39 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The figures I really would like to see are hospital admissions and ICU bed use by age group.  As the vaccination programme progresses, we will hopefully be able to see the raw numbers/percentages falling for the oldest age groups, assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin (or vial).

No they wont let u see them mate. Make me most people  less scared and anxious.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

You've summed him up better than I could with one sentence.  

👍😁

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Devi Sridhar now talking as if the vaccine is just a small part of the plan, that we can't just "open up in the summer " and we should be preparing for NEXT winter, to avoid another lockdown😄.

We are constantly told 1 in 30, 1 in 20 in London have the virus and this has been the pattern for weeks now, surely,if that's the case and adding the first wave, we must be well on the way to herd immunity?? There will be no excuse for opening up the economy after the 4 priority groups have been vaccinated. The economy, mental health, people's right to liberty etc will far outweigh any benefit or desire to control a virus that will have little or no impact on most people's health.  The governments should start to rein in those scientists who are starting to enjoy their spell of fame and TV appearances just a bit much. Sorry, Devi pet, it's back to the day job for you shortly. Normal life will resume

 

 

 

Knowing your fondness for the Daily Mail I can only assume this latest offering is inspired by the renowned professor Lockdown. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9130575/Neil-Ferguson-says-herd-immunity-achieved-UK-end-year.html  

 

I wonder who you think has been constantly telling us that "1 in 30, 1 in 20 in London have the virus" and that it has been the pattern for weeks. i think this is not correct. Here's the figures for the incidence of the disease as produced by the ONS. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/24december2020  for the week before xmas. Sure, the new strain has increased the infection rate but that is recent and there has not been a massive effect in Scotland, which means there is a greater potential in the future. Even allowing for that your statement appears to be nonsense, unless of course you can provide a source.

 

  Even if your figures were close to being credible for London they are nowhere near credible for Scotland where i live. I would object if policy affecting me in such a serious matter were to be in one non representative part of the country and applied to mine which is at the other end of the scale.

 

The herd immunity claim is not proved valid for this virus but of course you might know different. Many diseases constrained by herd immunity need levels of immunity above 90%. Currently the best guess for Scotland is that presently less than 1% are affected. England has had around 50% more infections than Scotland though and so if herd immunity does exist the lockdown relaxations that are likely to come with it would be likely to be much less effective in Scotland than England. We would be getting punished for better infection control and many Scots would die as a result. I can't imagine who you would want to blame if that happened.

 

Governments reining in scientists is funny though. Shutting down scientists expressing their opinions in favour of what? Gut feelings or the superior intellect and morality of our Etonian rulers. Almost all the scientists i have seen have been pretty good and given excellent and well reasoned advice and explanation, none more so than Jason and Devi.

 

The common sense position is of course to dig in for as long as possible in the hope that the vaccines help us. If they don't then the kind of points you are currently making will become more valid. 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Part of the daily numbers from tomorrow I think. Hancock on this morning said 2m and 200,000 a day atm. Still on target for 15th February for first groups. 

 

I was meaning more Scotland as Hancock will only be referring to England & Wales. 

[milky_26]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I was meaning more Scotland as Hancock will only be referring to England & Wales. 

Isn't it tomorrow that the SG start releasing the daily vaccination numbers

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, milky_26 said:

Isn't it tomorrow that the SG start releasing the daily vaccination numbers

 

Ah, I didn't realise that. Thanks milky.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Brian Dundas said:

That’s not the point I was making, my point was that we opened up when the virus was low, why would we not do it again?

 

You are of course correct.  Whitty said as much very recently.  Once it's been brought under control there will be a permanent,  residual amount of covid in the community.  Ongoing vaccinations,  population immunity and outbreak control protocols will ensure it doesn't run out of control.  At that stage we'll be set a level of illness and deaths that will have to be adopted as the so-called acceptable amount.  

 

As much of normality will be restored as quickly as it can be restored.  Hysteria about governments seizing the chance to permanently control and restrict society is off the chart delusion and paranoia.

 

Whitty was fairly optimistic with his forecast that the warmer months would see us return to near normality.  He's usually quite cautious do his thoughts tend to suggest there is a bright time ahead.  The chat about possible restrictions next winter is nothing more than sensible foresight.

 

All this utter shite about permanent totalitarianism and prohibition really shows up the hystericals for what they are.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

Currently the best guess for Scotland is that presently less than 1% are affected.

I though the virus was incredibly transmittable?   ..doesn't sound like it with those stats.