Budge update on Sporting Director role

[sadj]

12 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Some on here make it sound like they're hopelessly devoted to him. His detractors are matched post for post by his defenders.

 

I know why I want him out, completely (the reasons are clear so don't deflect by asking why) but why do you, and others, want him in? 

 

His shortcomings, failures and incompetence are front and central and visible to the naked eye.

 

His virtues and usefulness aren't. 

 

 

Thats where the big problem and disconnect between both sides are really. The passion of Hearts fans is something we should be proud of but we can also on both sides fail to see everything because of it.

[portobellojambo1]

1 minute ago, sadj said:

which comments? Havent seen that. I agree that Naysmiths role should be part time or should have other duties (it may already). If its video analysis then that is undoubtably a strong point of AM so to say he wouldn’t be good is wrong. That doesn’t mean he would be good at the same time. 

 

Are we talking here about video analysis of teams we are due to play shortly after the analysis has been caried out or are we talking about video analysis of players trying to sell themselves to the clubs through glossy video promotions put together by their agents (as the latter has failed miserably for us). The best place to get a feeling about a football player is by a scout watching them playing over a period of time, against a number of different opposition teams, to get a full picture.

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Blackshades said:

I put I riccarton and it bloody changes to what it likes .really should read things twice before sending 😂😂

👍

[sadj]

14 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

The two coaches he wanted to bring with him and who aren't yet here will hopefully arrive soon Geoff. And I think at that point the coaches, such as Fox and Daly, will leave the club. The fact that Levein and McPhee will be sharing the duties of recruitment in the short term, and I hope it a very short term, is very worrying to me, other than it may well signal the departure of John Murray from the club. They, in fact all three, were involved in the arrival of the players who for the last 2 years near enough neither Levein nor McPhee has been able to manage successfully from the position of manager/temporary manager. Going forward any scouts we have should be going out and looking at players (i.e. we revert away from the implementation under the project of many players being signed on the back of watching 10/15 minute videos) on the request of the manager, those where good reports come back should only be signed on the basis of a decision by the manager and the existing administration staff can deal with drafting up any and all paperwork that needs completed. I don't care what anyone says, the position of Director of Football has proven to be a failure and a club our size doesn't need a Sporting Director.

failure at Hearts or in general?

 

To say a club our size doesn’t need one is just trying to go back to the 80s and 90s its a position common across the football world and a model that many successful clubs our size and smaller will also have

[sadj]

1 minute ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

Are we talking here about video analysis of teams we are due to play shortly after the analysis has been caried out or are we talking about video analysis of players trying to sell themselves to the clubs through glossy video promotions put together by their agents (as the latter has failed miserably for us). The best place to get a feeling about a football player is by a scout watching them playing over a period of time, against a number of different opposition teams, to get a full picture.

i was assuming it was video analysis of teams Geoff was referencing

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, sadj said:

its called the not JJ job today after his sportsound appearance..... Never thought i’d lose even 0.0000001% of the love and respect i have for that man.....

I didn’t hear sportsound - what did JJ say that’s so upset you?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

10 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I did too, don’t worry. It would’ve been seen as positive too if Barry Anderson or his Editor hadn’t chosen to go down that path with the headline. If they left that tiny paragraph in the article with no headline or tag line bringing attention to it you would’ve only had a few people here saying “did anyone notice in the article it said... surely this can’t mean...?” Most wouldn’t have noticed, just like most haven’t actually read the article but jumped to conclusions from the headline I’d imagine.

 

It was the very definition of clickbait headline (was quite surprised to see an EEN journo go out of his way to claim it wasn't on Twitter). All  online headlines are written to generate clicks as that's how you get to the article. However, a clickbait headline deliberately misleads people, for example by leaving out key information - in this case the word "temporary" - or by putting words in people's mouths (in this case Budge didn't actually use the phrase "share sporting director duties", she just said some of the stuff they'd be doing until an SD comes in) . So, while not factually wrong, it reads like an announcement of a permanent appointment, which it's not = clickbait. And the headline writer.editor knew exactly what he was doing and the response the article would generate which also = clickbait.

Edited December 11, 2019 by ToqueJambo

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

She also said managing key relationships eg Man City. You surely don’t think she should have  read out the full job descriptions yesterday do you ? 

Man City is a key relationship because we're giving Meshino game time?

 

And no, I wasn't asking her to read out job descriptions or the like. That said, most people are transposing the director of football role (a role with responsibility for the whole football department) and moving that into the sporting director role on the assumption that the jobs are comparable. Personally, I don't think they are comparable.

[soonbe110]

15 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

The two coaches he wanted to bring with him and who aren't yet here will hopefully arrive soon Geoff. And I think at that point the coaches, such as Fox and Daly, will leave the club. The fact that Levein and McPhee will be sharing the duties of recruitment in the short term, and I hope it a very short term, is very worrying to me, other than it may well signal the departure of John Murray from the club. They, in fact all three, were involved in the arrival of the players who for the last 2 years near enough neither Levein nor McPhee has been able to manage successfully from the position of manager/temporary manager. Going forward any scouts we have should be going out and looking at players (i.e. we revert away from the implementation under the project of many players being signed on the back of watching 10/15 minute videos) on the request of the manager, those where good reports come back should only be signed on the basis of a decision by the manager and the existing administration staff can deal with drafting up any and all paperwork that needs completed. I don't care what anyone says, the position of Director of Football has proven to be a failure and a club our size doesn't need a Sporting Director.

Good post Porty. Murray is retiring, he us only part-time anyway. Stendels coaches will be coming in. All recruitment will be approved by Stendel. 
we do need an SD imo because the job is too big for one person these days. I want Stendel on the training ground and watching opponents not negotiating with agents and screening hundreds of players. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Man City is a key relationship because we're giving Meshino game time?

 

And no, I wasn't asking her to read out job descriptions or the like. That said, most people are transposing the director of football role (a role with responsibility for the whole football department) and moving that into the sporting director role on the assumption that the jobs are comparable. Personally, I don't think they are comparable.

 

It's been extensively covered how we've been building relationships with clubs like Man City, and why.

[soonbe110]

7 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

Don't know why. Hannover 96, on the other hand...... 

sorry meant to post 1896 in response to 1986. Long day. 

[portobellojambo1]

Just now, sadj said:

failure at Hearts or in general?

 

To say a club our size doesn’t need one is just trying to go back to the 80s and 90s its a position common across the football world and a model that many successful clubs our size and smaller will also have

 

Any comments I make sadj I tend to limit to what happens at our club as it is us I sit and watch playing every weekend and the occasional midweek when such fixtures come around. The position or positions may well work at some clubs, the fact I don't think the one of the two positions I mentioned worked at our club could potentially only suggest that it was the wrong person carrying out the role.

[soonbe110]

5 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

Are we talking here about video analysis of teams we are due to play shortly after the analysis has been caried out or are we talking about video analysis of players trying to sell themselves to the clubs through glossy video promotions put together by their agents (as the latter has failed miserably for us). The best place to get a feeling about a football player is by a scout watching them playing over a period of time, against a number of different opposition teams, to get a full picture.

Video analysis of most recent game, individual players, opposition, training sessions etc 

[Thomaso]

40 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Have only heard that on here. Vast majority are just happy we have a new first team manager. 

The vast majority are delighted we have a new manager (me included) that doesn’t prevent them from wanting Levein out.

[sadj]

2 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

I didn’t hear sportsound - what did JJ say that’s so upset you?

The utter disdain toward the club and Stendel was apparent on the programme and JJ didn’t imo even try to stand up for the club from a position he could of. It has pissed me off , i know AB had discussions with him and Walter Smith amongst others so for her to have reached out to him and him to let them attack her Stendel anf the club is bery very disappointing imo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

The vast majority are delighted we have a new manager (me included) that doesn’t prevent them from wanting Levein out.

 

Levein is out. At the end of his contract. It's done. Settled. Can you not move on?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It's been extensively covered how we've been building relationships with clubs like Man City, and why.

That's good. Meanwhile, let's imagine Man City complain about the game time Meshino is getting. How does the SD respond to that when they have no first team influence (apparently)?

[sadj]

2 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

Any comments I make sadj I tend to limit to what happens at our club as it is us I sit and watch playing every weekend and the occasional midweek when such fixtures come around. The position or positions may well work at some clubs, the fact I don't think the one of the two positions I mentioned worked at our club could potentially only suggest that it was the wrong person carrying out the role.

absolutely no argument there porty it has imo not been the position but the fit of the people and having one person carry out all the roles in a football world where that is to me not conducive to success

[soonbe110]

4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Man City is a key relationship because we're giving Meshino game time?

 

And no, I wasn't asking her to read out job descriptions or the like. That said, most people are transposing the director of football role (a role with responsibility for the whole football department) and moving that into the sporting director role on the assumption that the jobs are comparable. Personally, I don't think they are comparable.

They are not comparable, far from it. The Man City relationship is interesting and could develop. Meschino is first step. 

[BackOfTheNet]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It was the very definition of clickbait headline (was quite surprised to see an EEN journo go out of his way to claim it wasn't on Twitter). All  online headlines are written to generate clicks as that's how you get to the article. However, a clickbait headline deliberately misleads people, for example by leaving out key information - in this case the word "temporary" - or by putting words in people's mouths (in this case Budge didn't actually use the phrase "share sporting director duties", she just said some of the stuff they'd be doing until an SD comes in) . So, while not factually wrong, it reads like an announcement of a permanent appointment, which it's not = clickbait.

Yup, spot on. I saw the headline, read the article and saw it for what it was. Really disappointed so many on here had the opposite reaction.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

That's good. Meanwhile, let's imagine Man City complain about the game time Meshino is getting. How does the SD respond to that when they have no first team influence (apparently)?

 

This thing of clubs sending players up with some sort of required game time is some sort of made up in the pub myth isn't it? Is there any evidence - actual evidence - that this happens. Surely everyone's sensible side would say if he's playing badly he can be dropped.

[Rods]

Budge has made yet another PR mistake with these comments. She has gave the press yet another soundbite that could split our support unfortunately it is working on some.

 

She should have said we cleared up the Levein situation some weeks ago and said lets talk about the future.

[sadj]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

That's good. Meanwhile, let's imagine Man City complain about the game time Meshino is getting. How does the SD respond to that when they have no first team influence (apparently)?

now you are being obtuse. Meshino is already here. Moving forward any incoming player in that circumstance it would be agreed with the manager if it was a case of x amount of game time will be required. Its really not as complex as you are trying to make it

[sadj]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

This thing of clubs sending players up with some sort of required game time is some sort of made up in the pub myth isn't it? Is there any evidence - actual evidence - that this happens. Surely everyone's sensible side would say if he's playing badly he can be dropped.

it does happen but in my experience its not quite as rigid as people here are trying to make out

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

He isn’t acting DoF or anything. She said she has asked him and McPhee to split the responsibilities of the Sporting Director role that she is currently trying to fill. She wants to take as much workload off Stendel as she possibly can so that he can focus on first team. We don’t have an SD at the moment, we don’t have acting SD’s at the moment, we don’t have joint SD’s at the moment. The DoF role has been abolished at Hearts. Hope that clarifies things for you. 

Read my previous post on this title thing.

To repeat, some on here were suggesting the arrangement to keep Levein on was “normal”.

My point was that as far as I am aware there has never been a time when a Club sacked their Head Coach, then retained him at the Club in a senior role (no title 👍) in an advisory capacity. 

It is anything but “normal”.

Hope that clarifies things for you.

[soonbe110]

2 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

That's good. Meanwhile, let's imagine Man City complain about the game time Meshino is getting. How does the SD respond to that when they have no first team influence (apparently)?

He tells them tough shit. Don’t think we would ever take a player and guarantee his club game time. At least I hope we never would. Don’t think a club like City would expect us to just give him game time in any case 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

This thing of clubs sending players up with some sort of required game time is some sort of made up in the pub myth isn't it? Is there any evidence - actual evidence - that this happens. Surely everyone's sensible side would say if he's playing badly he can be dropped.

Meshino has played a part (start or sub) since he has been at the club. Just saying.

[Thomaso]

5 minutes ago, sadj said:

The utter disdain toward the club and Stendel was apparent on the programme and JJ didn’t imo even try to stand up for the club from a position he could of. It has pissed me off , i know AB had discussions with him and Walter Smith amongst others so for her to have reached out to him and him to let them attack her Stendel anf the club is bery very disappointing imo

So JJ didn’t slag off the Club then?

[Gordon Ramsay]

28 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

“Austin will be doing part of that job and Craig will be doing another part of it. They could continue in that. If I find somebody I think will be absolutely perfect for taking on what in my mind is the sporting director’s role, then Austin, myself and Craig will have to sit down and talk about it.”

 

it’s there in black and white. She is clearly not ruling out keeping this set up permanently. 

Why would the man who has just been sacked for being one of, if not, the worst manager in our history be anywhere the discussions for our new SD? 

 

What's more is he is actually getting a wee shot at doing it with his gimpy pal too 😂

 

Honestly Craig must go home every night and piss himself laughing at the gig he's got at Hearts. He's got her buttoned up the back. 

[Thomaso]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Levein is out. At the end of his contract. It's done. Settled. Can you not move on?

It would be much better if Levein would just move on - right out the door.

[soonbe110]

2 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

Read my previous post on this title thing.

To repeat, some on here were suggesting the arrangement to keep Levein on was “normal”.

My point was that as far as I am aware there has never been a time when a Club sacked their Head Coach, then retained him at the Club in a senior role (no title 👍) in an advisory capacity. 

It is anything but “normal”.

Hope that clarifies things for you.

He isn’t in a senior role. He is helping the owner out on a few projects, duties as he runs down his contract. She specifically said he was working on youth level stuff. 

[soonbe110]

3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Meshino has played a part (start or sub) since he has been at the club. Just saying.

Justifiably based on performances. 

[kila]

8 minutes ago, Rods said:

Budge has made yet another PR mistake with these comments. She has gave the press yet another soundbite that could split our support unfortunately it is working on some.

 

She should have said we cleared up the Levein situation some weeks ago and said lets talk about the future.

 

If we start winning again no one will care

[soonbe110]

2 minutes ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

Why would the man who has just been sacked for being one of, if not, the worst manager in our history be anywhere the discussions for our new SD? 

 

What's more is he is actually getting a wee shot at doing it with his gimpy pal too 😂

 

Honestly Craig must go home every night and piss himself laughing at the gig he's got at Hearts. He's got her buttoned up the back. 

First paragraph kills your argument. Just not factually accurate. 
second para is insulting. 
third para is even more insulting. 

[Thomaso]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

He isn’t in a senior role. He is helping the owner out on a few projects, duties as he runs down his contract. She specifically said he was working on youth level stuff. 

She also said “I won’t hesitate asking Craig for advice”

He was involved in the recruitment process of Stendel, accompanied her to Man City and you have to be naive to believe he doesn’t have Budge’s ear behind the scenes at Tynecastle.

[Bull's-eye]

3 minutes ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

Why would the man who has just been sacked for being one of, if not, the worst manager in our history be anywhere the discussions for our new SD? 

 

What's more is he is actually getting a wee shot at doing it with his gimpy pal too 😂

 

Honestly Craig must go home every night and piss himself laughing at the gig he's got at Hearts. He's got her buttoned up the back. 

 

You said he was in Ann Budges bed earlier so in your own mind you answered your own question.

[Rods]

Just now, kila said:

 

If we start winning again no one will care

 

Totally agree

 

 

[kimosavi]

3 hours ago, JamboAl said:

WTF are you slavering about?

Irony now  🤷‍♂️

 

Hatrick plus another 

[Francis Albert]

10 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Levein is out. At the end of his contract. It's done. Settled. Can you not move on?

But he patently isn't out and there is no guarantee he will be at the end of his current contract.

I think the odds on him.outlasting Stendel  are not too long.

[Gordon Ramsay]

5 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

First paragraph kills your argument. Just not factually accurate. 
second para is insulting. 
third para is even more insulting. 

Its all correct. 

 

The only thing that is 'insulting' is Craig Levein still hanging around the football club. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Gordon Ramsay

[kimosavi]

6 minutes ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

Why would the man who has just been sacked for being one of, if not, the worst manager in our history be anywhere the discussions for our new SD? 

 

What's more is he is actually getting a wee shot at doing it with his gimpy pal too 😂

 

Honestly Craig must go home every night and piss himself laughing at the gig he's got at Hearts. He's got her buttoned up the back. 

I reckon if craig told Ann the sky was pink with yellow polcadots she'd take his word for it 

[Taffin]

I still don't get why she announced this in this fashion on the back of some long awaited good news.

 

Why not just say 'im delighted to have got Daniel in and I will continue my search for a SD and appoint on in due course. In the interim AM will be picking up some of the duties.'

 

There was absolutely no need whatsoever to go into such detail and mention Levein. It's just created a shitstorm for no reason. 

 

I apologise for covering ground that I did on page 1 but I just can't fathom how a successful business woman is so shit at PR.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Taffin

[The Real Maroonblood]

44 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Some on here make it sound like they're hopelessly devoted to him. His detractors are matched post for post by his defenders.

 

I know why I want him out, completely (the reasons are clear so don't deflect by asking why) but why do you, and others, want him in? 

 

His shortcomings, failures and incompetence are front and central and visible to the naked eye.

 

His virtues and usefulness aren't. 

 

 

Love is blind.

[portobellojambo1]

12 minutes ago, sadj said:

absolutely no argument there porty it has imo not been the position but the fit of the people and having one person carry out all the roles in a football world where that is to me not conducive to success

I really don't have any problem with the right sort of people being in place if by them being in place they provide benefit to the club. There is an old saying which goes along the lines of too many cooks spoil the broth. And in my case, in terms of watching/supporting HMFC the broth to me represents the team, and what it is producing. And if a situation is created where too many supporting roles of any sort are damaging the broth I'd be disappointed. As far as I'm aware, there is a senior manager overseeing the academy, Riccarton etc, similar management in place for the catering/hospitality side of the business, senior management within the retail side of the business, and administration staff who can, strangely enough carry out all the admin/paperwork roles. If the first team can get by with a manager managing the team, assisted by the two coaches I believe he wants to eventually have at Tynecastle then that would do me just fine. I'm not a great believer in creating jobs for suits just for the sake of it.

[Marooned Abroad]

I almost feel that some on here are wishing it would continue to go wrong so they can play Chief Executive with our team.
We've made the key move - the appointment of a new Manager. AB has made it quite clear the CL/AMcP combo is  a temporary fix for financial reasons - unless it works, in which case she will reconsider. Does that not just make sense?

Shouldnt we all be leaving it at that and getting behind Stendel and Co? That’s what I’ll be doing anyway. 

 

[robbo1874]

As long as his staff do come in ASAP IMO.

Will it be Stendel who identifies players and either CL or AM try to get them? 

I'd like to think DS would have input other than having the final say.

Hopefully some of the existing squad will blossom under his coaching .

 

[Hansel]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I still don't get why she announced this in this fashion on the back of some long awaited good news.

 

Why not just say 'im delighted to have got Daniel in and I will continue my search for a SD and appoint on in due course. In the interim AM will be picking up some of the duties.'

 

There was absolutely no need whatsoever to go into such detail and mention Levein. It's just created a shitstorm for no reason. 

 

I apologise for covering ground that I did on page 1 but I just can't fathom how a successful business woman is so shit at PR.

Agreed. 

 

Whether or not it bothers you that Levein is still at the club, there was no reason to mention him given that the majority of our fans want him away completely.

 

Its opened up old wounds at a time when these wounds should be healing.

 

Personally I'm not bothered he is involved but she should have taken into account the fans (the many fans) who want him out.

If we continue our poor run under Stendel then these fans will continue to blame Levein (and Macphee probably) for meddling/undermining the manager.

[Beast Boy]

Back when we found out Budge was taking over and bringing Levein in, I was really pleased. That’s because I was aware of the job he had done at Dundee United whilst a DoF and I liked his outlook on such things, as I understood them. 
 

The management side of things I was fairly optimistic on too, but he seems to have lost his touch there, and it’s disappointing to admit it, but the results speak for themselves and he had plenty time to turn things around but failed.

 

His work for the remainder of his contract will be closer to that of a DoF than a manager, and he won’t have any influence on the first team set up, tactics or choice of personnel. I’m happy with that. Both Austin and he have qualities and I think it’s sensible to utilise those whilst they are both still being paid by the club.

 

Onwards and upwards.

[tolcross lad]

What are McPhee and Levein going to do all day?We even have a Loans manager now.Its bonkers .

[Guest ToqueJambo]

20 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I still don't get why she announced this in this fashion on the back of some long awaited good news.

 

Why not just say 'im delighted to have got Daniel in and I will continue my search for a SD and appoint on in due course. In the interim AM will be picking up some of the duties.'

 

There was absolutely no need whatsoever to go into such detail and mention Levein. It's just created a shitstorm for no reason. 

 

I apologise for covering ground that I did on page 1 but I just can't fathom how a successful business woman is so shit at PR.

 

Because people, including journalists and pundits, wanted "clarificashun". I said earlier I don't know why she bothers trying to keep fans informed. She just gets pelters no matter what she says, for saying it in a slightly wrong way, or using the wrong word, or doing it a day early. It's ridiculous. Roll on Saturday.

 

And the article itself isn't controversial. It's the deliberately misleading headline most people seem to be reacting to.

Edited December 11, 2019 by ToqueJambo