Injuries

[JamboAl]

20 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Interesting that Alexis Sanchez isn’t going back to Utd to be treated for an injury that’s likely to keep him out for three months. We’re we not told it’s standard protocol?

Aye that's very interesting.

Your point is...?

[mitch41]

Has Any Physiotherapist left Hearts Academy because Hearts are advertising for one ?

[thewiseone]

20 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Has Any Physiotherapist left Hearts Academy because Hearts are advertising for one ?

Not sure but another waste of a wage.

Far better approaches to injury out there but think the traditional approach is a must according to players insurance policy and clubs membership to sfa rules etc- somebody might enlighten me? 

Wouldn't want Hearts to bend the rules!

[GinRummy]

23 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

Not sure but another waste of a wage.

Far better approaches to injury out there but think the traditional approach is a must according to players insurance policy and clubs membership to sfa rules etc- somebody might enlighten me? 

Wouldn't want Hearts to bend the rules!

 

What sort of new approaches are there?

[thewiseone]

Not new approaches but older ones.

Far better was in reference to such practice as acupuncture for instance.

[GorgieRules22]

2 hours ago, mitch41 said:

Has Any Physiotherapist left Hearts Academy because Hearts are advertising for one ?

That many injuries we need another one.

[GinRummy]

30 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

Not new approaches but older ones.

Far better was in reference to such practice as acupuncture for instance.

 

👍 

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, thewiseone said:

Not new approaches but older ones.

Far better was in reference to such practice as acupuncture for instance.

So you mean different approaches?

Can you elaborate and say which ones we use at present and which ones we should use?  This will be help if Mrs Budge, CL and Karen Gibson read it.

Do we use acupuncture?

Edited October 14, 2019 by JamboAl

[thewiseone]

No I meant better approaches.

No I can't elaborate.

It will be of no help to Mrs Budge ,CL and Karen Gibson.

No idea but guess not.

Anything else I can help you with?

[JamboAl]

5 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

No I meant better approaches.

No I can't elaborate.

It will be of no help to Mrs Budge ,CL and Karen Gibson.

No idea but guess not.

Anything else I can help you with?

I never thought for a minute you would be able to do so.

[thewiseone]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

I never thought for a minute you would be able to do so.

And what's your point Mr Al, point scoring?

[JamboAl]

4 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

And what's your point Mr Al, point scoring?

Not at all.  I was just anxious to share the knowledge you had and hoped the club would benefit too.

[thewiseone]

5 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Not at all.  I was just anxious to share the knowledge you had and hoped the club would benefit too.

I think there is contractual and insurance medical protocols that clubs have to abide by for legal reasons, I am hoping somebody with legal/ medical knowledge of this situation will actually inform us.

However there are plenty of things that can be adopted to benefit the players, their health and well being, meaning they are likely to perform better and recover and LEARN through their injury mishaps.

Its clear to me this isn't being addressed by those in charge, a deriliction of duty to their employees.

Take Souttar for instance injury, repair injury repair, in jury repair here we have one of Scotland's brightest talents who has the potential to be burnt out by the time he's 26, yet the club's sole focus is fix and repair, are they not aware that this pattern can be and has to be broken for the benefit of Souttar and Hearts.

 

When you know these things it's responsible of me to try to make others aware.

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, thewiseone said:

Not new approaches but older ones.

Far better was in reference to such practice as acupuncture for instance.

 

 

To repair broken bones? 

Hamstring tears? 

 

Maybe for maintenance and rest but not for repair, surely? 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Smith's right boot

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, GorgieRules22 said:

That many injuries we need another one.

I think it might be to do with the women’s team meaning we need another pair of hands for the academy players. It is all to the pumps at the minute I would imagine though. 

[thewiseone]

Don't think you are quite getting this, it's a slow process for you I understand.

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, thewiseone said:

I think there is contractual and insurance medical protocols that clubs have to abide by for legal reasons, I am hoping somebody with legal/ medical knowledge of this situation will actually inform us.

However there are plenty of things that can be adopted to benefit the players, their health and well being, meaning they are likely to perform better and recover and LEARN through their injury mishaps.

Its clear to me this isn't being addressed by those in charge, a deriliction of duty to their employees.

Take Souttar for instance injury, repair injury repair, in jury repair here we have one of Scotland's brightest talents who has the potential to be burnt out by the time he's 26, yet the club's sole focus is fix and repair, are they not aware that this pattern can be and has to be broken for the benefit of Souttar and Hearts.

 

When you know these things it's responsible of me to try to make others aware.

What should they be doing that they're not doing?

How do you know what they are doing,( apart from your amateur guesswork)?

[thewiseone]

7 hours ago, JamboAl said:

What should they be doing that they're not doing?

How do you know what they are doing,( apart from your amateur guesswork)?

I look at what's happening, why can't you see it.

Its not difficult to see and understand the real issues, however to be in this position you will have to have awareness, something I can't give you.

 

[Vlad Magic]

15 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

I look at what's happening, why can't you see it.

Its not difficult to see and understand the real issues, however to be in this position you will have to have awareness, something I can't give you.

 

 

Much pish you talk, in large quantities it is.

[Pasquale for King]

8 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

I was recently speaking to someone at club ref loan and injuries. 
 

They stated to me it depends on club and injury and confidence in medical staff, travel times, injury etc (That’s not a dig a hearts before those who struggle with basic comprehension get all upset😂) 

 

So for example we had a loan player and Cowdenbeath and he got injured. We would want them back as our medical staff are better trained and can make a decision on best course and it’s 30min down road. However, say we had someone at Man City their would be a belief it’s cool to leave them there suitable medical staff, time of travel etc.

 

It seems it’s very much down to individual circumstances, clearly clubs speak to each other to agree best course of action. 
 

 

Absolutely, my point ages ago was that when Mitchell was here he didn’t go down to get his injury looked at. Levein declared he would be fit for the weekend, they took him down and he was operated on before the weekend. Since then they’ve taken their players back down immediately.

[thewiseone]

13 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

 

Much pish you talk, in large quantities it is.

Thank you for your in put, perhaps the next time though you engage your brain.Its wonderful try it!

[GinRummy]

Any more word on who is due back this weekend?

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, thewiseone said:

I look at what's happening, why can't you see it.

Its not difficult to see and understand the real issues, however to be in this position you will have to have awareness, something I can't give you.

 

I'll ask you again

 

What should they be doing that they're not doing?

How do you know what they are doing,( apart from your amateur guesswork)?

 

Forget all your ducking and diving.  Just give a straighr answer or admit you're on an excremental high.

[thewiseone]

I know what they are doing isn't working because to me it's obvious from the results we see before us.

 

Can you see this or are you too in denial?

 

Its not what they " should be doing", it's what they " can be doing". 

There's a bigger picture to the scenario which currently effects Hearts, and their players, or do you think  that injuries just happen?

 

 

 

 

[JamboAl]

Just now, thewiseone said:

I know what they are doing isn't working because to me it's obvious from the results we see before us.

 

Can you see this or are you too in denial?

 

Its not what they " should be doing", it's what they " can be doing". 

There's a bigger picture to the scenario which currently effects Hearts, and their players, or do you think  that injuries just happen?

 

 

 

 

OK, so you don't really know.  You're guessing in accordance with your agenda.

[thewiseone]

9 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

OK, so you don't really know.  You're guessing in accordance with your agenda.

No I don't have an agenda.

I'm not guessing either!

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, thewiseone said:

No I don't have an agenda.

I'm not guessing either!

Right, so you're not guessing.

What then is your evidence?

Now please, no more ducking and diving.  Just tell us what you know.

[thewiseone]

Why are you so determined to seek evidence? Try focusing on the signs. 

 

Hearts have been masters of your approach- stats, have played their part in driving us to the situation we see before us, evidence , I think you are a little confused between how you want things to work and how they actually do- your second name isnt Levein is it?

 

I'd be here all day if I chose to tell you all I know.

[brux]

On 09/10/2019 at 18:37, soonbe110 said:

It was a fracture. Not as bad as broken. 

Not true, a break is a fracture which is the proper term. You get different types of fracture which can take longer to heal, for instance a spiral fracture can be more complicated or an open wound fracture can take longer. Walkers fracture was a straight forward one with no displacement, a lot quicker to heal.

[Unknown user]

28 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

Why are you so determined to seek evidence?

 

I'll just leave that there

[JamboAl]

32 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

Why are you so determined to seek evidence? Try focusing on the signs. 

 

Hearts have been masters of your approach- stats, have played their part in driving us to the situation we see before us, evidence , I think you are a little confused between how you want things to work and how they actually do- your second name isnt Levein is it?

 

I'd be here all day if I chose to tell you all I know.

Why are you so determined not to back up what you claim - because it's sh*te!

You clearly have an agenda and you're posting blindly with pure nasty guesswork.

Is that right?

[Jim Panzee]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

Why are you so determined not to back up what you claim - because it's sh*te!

You clearly have an agenda and you're posting blindly with pure nasty guesswork.

Is that right?

JamboAl....or should I call you "Grasshopper".....you're meant to "use the force".....no I mean, paint the fence....wax the car.....whatever. close your eyes and FEEL the badness eminating from Craig Levein! can't you see what's in people's heads in front of your own eyes?!

 

I say again. I love this place.....it's got some great posters on here

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, Jim Panzee said:

JamboAl....or should I call you "Grasshopper".....you're meant to "use the force".....no I mean, paint the fence....wax the car.....whatever. close your eyes and FEEL the badness eminating from Craig Levein! can't you see what's in people's heads in front of your own eyes?!

 

I say again. I love this place.....it's got some great posters on here

That obviously came from some deep intelligent thinking.  Nurse!

[Jim Panzee]

10 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

That obviously came from some deep intelligent thinking.  Nurse!

Nurse - give the wiseone 50mls.....if that doesn't work - hit him with the Elephant gun!

[thewiseone]

No it really isn't and the sort of things I am referring to are human aspects that can't really be measured.

For instance how would you measure,

Confidence, sense of worth, feeling valued, enthusiasm, freedom of expression, creativity?

These aspects of you and me are so important to our overall functioning more so in a football team setting than a lot of other sports.

Hearts and their present coaches show little of these traits. When I watch the team I see little evidence  of these or have I got this wrong as well?

In fact they seem to be generating /doing the very opposite. 

Confidence is seeping out of the team with each passing game, even CL said this.

Enthusiasm, just ask the fans how enthusiastic they are to turn up on match day, some lifelong fans turning their backs, now ask yourself how enthusiastic you would be playing in such a way, humping, huffing and puffing then turn it to the players, what evidence do you see of enthusiasm in and around the team.Our own fans even call it hoofball!

Then we look at expression, those that have aired views have been shipped out, listen to CL before and after games this will tell you all you need to know about expression or lack of which is presently encouraged.

Sense of worth ask - Vanacech, how he felt when he was publicly humiliated, just one aspect done in full view of the paying customer what goes on behind closed doors who knows.

Then you have a constant monitoring of stats of players measured are km ran, speed distance etc. Where focus is put on and probably rewards given to those who do most , who work the hardest.

A trait us Scots seem to glorify in, you get gubbed  but you worked hard, never gave up blah,blah.

Then we come to a sense of worth, players of limited ability to a degree that's why there with us being asked to play left back, right back, midfeld and forward who knows where the feck next week. These guys have got to know there is no one at the club who is a good a right winger as them, how important they are, to the team, how vital they are, it's like Walter Kidd, never endowed with great skill but knew his position, knew what was expected of him and made his position his own til he eventually became almost the first name on the team sheet, he knew his worth to the cause, do you see that within this presently.

Then you have to peice all this together and connect the dots and understand that injury is merely a communication of the disharmony and dissatisfaction these guys are feeling from the methods and tactics generated at coaching level.

That's why Al the man, evidence is futile, proof non existent, knowing, realisation, and wisdom by the bucket load!

[Jim Panzee]

4 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

No it really isn't and the sort of things I am referring to are human aspects that can't really be measured.

For instance how would you measure,

Confidence, sense of worth, feeling valued, enthusiasm, freedom of expression, creativity?

These aspects of you and me are so important to our overall functioning more so in a football team setting than a lot of other sports.

Hearts and their present coaches show little of these traits. When I watch the team I see little evidence  of these or have I got this wrong as well?

In fact they seem to be generating /doing the very opposite. 

Confidence is seeping out of the team with each passing game, even CL said this.

Enthusiasm, just ask the fans how enthusiastic they are to turn up on match day, some lifelong fans turning their backs, now ask yourself how enthusiastic you would be playing in such a way, humping, huffing and puffing then turn it to the players, what evidence do you see of enthusiasm in and around the team.Our own fans even call it hoofball!

Then we look at expression, those that have aired views have been shipped out, listen to CL before and after games this will tell you all you need to know about expression or lack of which is presently encouraged.

Sense of worth ask - Vanacech, how he felt when he was publicly humiliated, just one aspect done in full view of the paying customer what goes on behind closed doors who knows.

Then you have a constant monitoring of stats of players measured are km ran, speed distance etc. Where focus is put on and probably rewards given to those who do most , who work the hardest.

A trait us Scots seem to glorify in, you get gubbed  but you worked hard, never gave up blah,blah.

Then we come to a sense of worth, players of limited ability to a degree that's why there with us being asked to play left back, right back, midfeld and forward who knows where the feck next week. These guys have got to know there is no one at the club who is a good a right winger as them, how important they are, to the team, how vital they are, it's like Walter Kidd, never endowed with great skill but knew his position, knew what was expected of him and made his position his own til he eventually became almost the first name on the team sheet, he knew his worth to the cause, do you see that within this presently.

Then you have to peice all this together and connect the dots and understand that injury is merely a communication of the disharmony and dissatisfaction these guys are feeling from the methods and tactics generated at coaching level.

That's why Al the man, evidence is futile, proof non existent, knowing, realisation, and wisdom by the bucket load!

now this I get. basically boiling down to confidence and we sometimes see new managers (a new voice, new way of working) turn this around. it's also why some players go to a new club and look world beaters compared to their last club.....or turn from world beaters to very poor when joining a new club.

 

that said....I thought we were talking about injuries?

[JamboAl]

2 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

now this I get. basically boiling down to confidence and we sometimes see new managers (a new voice, new way of working) turn this around. it's also why some players go to a new club and look world beaters compared to their last club.....or turn from world beaters to very poor when joining a new club.

 

that said....I thought we were talking about injuries?

He's all over the place.

He wants to beef about the club but he doesn't know what he wants to beef about.

 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, thewiseone said:

No it really isn't and the sort of things I am referring to are human aspects that can't really be measured.

For instance how would you measure,

Confidence, sense of worth, feeling valued, enthusiasm, freedom of expression, creativity?

These aspects of you and me are so important to our overall functioning more so in a football team setting than a lot of other sports.

Hearts and their present coaches show little of these traits. When I watch the team I see little evidence  of these or have I got this wrong as well?

In fact they seem to be generating /doing the very opposite. 

Confidence is seeping out of the team with each passing game, even CL said this.

Enthusiasm, just ask the fans how enthusiastic they are to turn up on match day, some lifelong fans turning their backs, now ask yourself how enthusiastic you would be playing in such a way, humping, huffing and puffing then turn it to the players, what evidence do you see of enthusiasm in and around the team.Our own fans even call it hoofball!

Then we look at expression, those that have aired views have been shipped out, listen to CL before and after games this will tell you all you need to know about expression or lack of which is presently encouraged.

Sense of worth ask - Vanacech, how he felt when he was publicly humiliated, just one aspect done in full view of the paying customer what goes on behind closed doors who knows.

Then you have a constant monitoring of stats of players measured are km ran, speed distance etc. Where focus is put on and probably rewards given to those who do most , who work the hardest.

A trait us Scots seem to glorify in, you get gubbed  but you worked hard, never gave up blah,blah.

Then we come to a sense of worth, players of limited ability to a degree that's why there with us being asked to play left back, right back, midfeld and forward who knows where the feck next week. These guys have got to know there is no one at the club who is a good a right winger as them, how important they are, to the team, how vital they are, it's like Walter Kidd, never endowed with great skill but knew his position, knew what was expected of him and made his position his own til he eventually became almost the first name on the team sheet, he knew his worth to the cause, do you see that within this presently.

Then you have to peice all this together and connect the dots and understand that injury is merely a communication of the disharmony and dissatisfaction these guys are feeling from the methods and tactics generated at coaching level.

That's why Al the man, evidence is futile, proof non existent, knowing, realisation, and wisdom by the bucket load!

Great post, and he doesn’t accept facts either so you’re wasting your time,

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Great post, and he doesn’t accept facts either so you’re wasting your time,

 

No, it's a hat full of utter bollocks. 

 

"Then you have to peice all this together and connect the dots and understand that injury is merely a communication of the disharmony and dissatisfaction these guys are feeling from the methods and tactics generated at coaching level."

 

The majority of our injuries are contact injuries and all the pseudoscience claptrap in the world won't change that.

 

I'm an optimist, I believe in addressing the world positively, I get the importance of good vibes, but it won't prevent bones from breaking ffs.

[JamboAl]

18 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Great post, and he doesn’t accept facts either so you’re wasting your time,

It might be a great post but what has it to do with injuries?

He's trying to turn it into another CL  rant which explains why you think it's great.

Edited October 15, 2019 by JamboAl

[Brighton Jambo]

2 hours ago, thewiseone said:

No it really isn't and the sort of things I am referring to are human aspects that can't really be measured.

For instance how would you measure,

Confidence, sense of worth, feeling valued, enthusiasm, freedom of expression, creativity?

These aspects of you and me are so important to our overall functioning more so in a football team setting than a lot of other sports.

Hearts and their present coaches show little of these traits. When I watch the team I see little evidence  of these or have I got this wrong as well?

In fact they seem to be generating /doing the very opposite. 

Confidence is seeping out of the team with each passing game, even CL said this.

Enthusiasm, just ask the fans how enthusiastic they are to turn up on match day, some lifelong fans turning their backs, now ask yourself how enthusiastic you would be playing in such a way, humping, huffing and puffing then turn it to the players, what evidence do you see of enthusiasm in and around the team.Our own fans even call it hoofball!

Then we look at expression, those that have aired views have been shipped out, listen to CL before and after games this will tell you all you need to know about expression or lack of which is presently encouraged.

Sense of worth ask - Vanacech, how he felt when he was publicly humiliated, just one aspect done in full view of the paying customer what goes on behind closed doors who knows.

Then you have a constant monitoring of stats of players measured are km ran, speed distance etc. Where focus is put on and probably rewards given to those who do most , who work the hardest.

A trait us Scots seem to glorify in, you get gubbed  but you worked hard, never gave up blah,blah.

Then we come to a sense of worth, players of limited ability to a degree that's why there with us being asked to play left back, right back, midfeld and forward who knows where the feck next week. These guys have got to know there is no one at the club who is a good a right winger as them, how important they are, to the team, how vital they are, it's like Walter Kidd, never endowed with great skill but knew his position, knew what was expected of him and made his position his own til he eventually became almost the first name on the team sheet, he knew his worth to the cause, do you see that within this presently.

Then you have to peice all this together and connect the dots and understand that injury is merely a communication of the disharmony and dissatisfaction these guys are feeling from the methods and tactics generated at coaching level.

That's why Al the man, evidence is futile, proof non existent, knowing, realisation, and wisdom by the bucket load!

6 months ago I wouldn’t have agreed with you.  But in that time my other club, Brighton, dismissed the beloved Chris Hughton, an all time club legend as manager, and replaced him with a relatively unknown manager in Graham Potter.  A lot of fans were split as Hughton had done what he was expected to do and kept us up.  

 

The difference in the first few games had been staggering.  Essentially the same players but they play with a confidence, energy  and freedom that was unthinkable under CH who had them playing with fear and with so much rigidity,  players interchange positions at will, the possession and chances created are through the roof.  Also young players are coming through and really contributing.  

 

I was one who was so torn over CH leaving after his achievements but the improvement and feel good factor in only 8 league games has been amazing.  As importantly the fans who were split are now 100% united.  

 

The parallels are clearly there with CL and now I have seen what is possible in such a short period of time I am convinced that is what we need, a change and a fresh impetus.  Even with the same players the right manager could transform our fortunes.  

Edited October 15, 2019 by Brighton Jambo

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

6 months ago I wouldn’t have agreed with you.  But in that time my other club, Brighton, dismissed the beloved Chris Hughton, an all time club legend as manager, and replaced him with a relatively unknown manager in Graham Potter.  A lot of fans were split as Hughton had done what he was expected to do and kept us up.  

 

The difference in the first few games had been staggering.  Essentially the same players but they play with a confidence, energy  and freedom that was unthinkable under CH who had them playing with fear and with so much rigidity,  players interchange positions at will, the possession and chances created are through the roof.  Also young players are coming through and really contributing.  

 

I was one who was so torn over CH leaving after his achievements but the improvement and feel good factor in only 8 league games has been amazing.  As importantly the fans who were split are now 100% united.  

 

The parallels are clearly there with CL and now I have seen what is possible in such a short period of time I am convinced that is what we need, a change and a fresh impetus.  Even with the same players the right manager could transform our fortunes.  

 

He's talking about injuries though

[GinRummy]

9 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

It might be a great post but what has it to do with injuries?

He's trying to turn it into another CL  rant which explains why you think it's great.

it is a good post though. Just in the wrong place. Threads go off topic quite regularly tbf

[Brighton Jambo]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

He's talking about injuries though

Yeah I just ignored that part as I didn’t agree.  The parallels over stagnation versus reinvigoration though are stark.  

[thewiseone]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

He's talking about injuries thoug

Smithee, Smithee, Smithee, hope your village has got a replacement!

[thewiseone]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

it is a good post though. Just in the wrong place. Threads go off topic quite regularly tbf

Not at all this thread is about injuries, it's bang on the money!

[thewiseone]

15 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

It might be a great post but what has it to do with injuries?

He's trying to turn it into another CL  rant which explains why you think it's great.

Hardly a rant big Al, you should swap places with Smithee when he's awY!

[Tasavallan]

I quite like the way major sport in the US use the Sick Roster.  When a player is determined to be "sick" by a doctor he goes on to the sick list and the manager can bring in a fresh player as a replacement.  Of course in the US major teams have lower league affiliates connected to the club where players can be promoted from to maintain the squad numbers. 

 

It would never work in British football.

[Rudy T]

We’re missing Naismith Souttar and Harring from last season. Harring because he was thrown in injured and Naismith because he was rushed back. 

 

Levein had enough games last season without these players to work out how to put out a winning team. Add in he’s had Hickey Meshino Whelan Halkett Damour Washington and Walker and he’s managed 1 league and 1 cup win in 90 minutes.

 

Take out Washington Walker and Halkett who are now injured he still has a better team than last year however we’re worse than we were.

 

Injuries have provided a massive smoke screen for Levein in his manipulation of Ann Budge.

 

The bottom line is he cannot put a team out to win football matches on a consistent basis because he has no idea how to motivate or structure a team when things change.

[JamboAl]

14 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

Smithee, Smithee, Smithee, hope your village has got a replacement!

Your village doesn't appear to need a replacement.

BTW I live in a city.