Japan 2019

[shaun.lawson]

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Anyway. 

 

The focus moves to Australia beating England. 

 

Eddie Jones' record favours Australia.

 

confused.com

 

It's still the Boks for the title for me, Brian.

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, graygo said:

 

Cheers. Hardly the embarrassment ri Alban claims it to be.

 

Not in any way. Tom English got it spot on before the game. He thought a Scotland win would be the biggest achievement by the rugby team in at least 20 years. Ever since the draw was made years ago, I'd never thought Scotland could win this game. Host nations in major tournaments are nightmarishly tough to stop; just ask the Spanish football team.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I don't think Japan will stay at 8 for very long as I don't see this team as the start of something long term for them Just the reverse in fact. Good luck to them as the bettered us on the day.

 

I do hope however it sees the end of Townsend (though I doubt it will). The other home nations all have antipodean coaches who have improved them all (especially Wales & Ireland). We had one who was also improving us out of all recent recognition but chose to let him go just so we could have a Scot in charge. You reap what you sow as they say. 

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

I don't think Japan will stay at 8 for very long as I don't see this team as the start of something long term for them Just the reverse in fact. Good luck to them as the bettered us on the day. 

 

As they were saying on TV Japan needs chance to compete with better teams more regularly.

 

Maybe get to join one of the 2 big annual tournaments. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Mikey1874

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

As they were saying on TV Japan needs chance to compete with better teams more regularly.

 

Maybe get to join one of the 2 big annual tournaments. 

 

Yep. Even though Japan are a northern hemisphere side, it has to be The Rugby Championship for them I think. Pronto. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

As they were saying on TV Japan needs chance to compete with better teams more regularly.

 

Maybe get to join one of the 2 big annual tournaments. 

 

Argentina took ages to be included but are very up and down even now. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Out of interest how were the groups decided? Were countries drawn out of a hat so to speak or is there a different method in the Rugby Word Cup. 

[Mikey1874]

8 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Out of interest how were the groups decided? Were countries drawn out of a hat so to speak or is there a different method in the Rugby Word Cup. 

 

Draw explained here. Basically rankings at May 2017 when draw was made. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Rugby_World_Cup

 

So we need to improve ranking for when next draw is made. It has been made as long as 3 years before. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Mikey1874

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Out of interest how were the groups decided? Were countries drawn out of a hat so to speak or is there a different method in the Rugby Word Cup. 

 

The draw was held 28 months in advance. They do it so far ahead because of package operators and ticketing arrangements. It's still insane though - as the seedings/pots are based on the world rankings at that time.

[Maroon Sailor]

10 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

I don't think Japan will stay at 8 for very long as I don't see this team as the start of something long term for them Just the reverse in fact. Good luck to them as the bettered us on the day.

 

I do hope however it sees the end of Townsend (though I doubt it will). The other home nations all have antipodean coaches who have improved them all (especially Wales & Ireland). We had one who was also improving us out of all recent recognition but chose to let him go just so we could have a Scot in charge. You reap what you sow as they say. 

 

Coaching was once a Scottish trait

 

Shankly, Stein, Ferguson, Telfer, McGeechan

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Draw explained here. Basically rankings at May 2017 when draw was made. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Rugby_World_Cup

 

So we need to improve ranking for when next draw is made. 

 

Cheers. So it was just our usual bad luck that got us drawn in the same group as the hosts. So typical. 

[rudi must stay]

4 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Coaching was once a Scottish trait

 

Shankly, Stein, Ferguson, Telfer, McGeechan

 

Still is

 

Anyway I reckon Townsend is the right man. He is a positive man who has in my opinion got the team behind him

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Coaching was once a Scottish trait

 

Shankly, Stein, Ferguson, Telfer, McGeechan

 

We once produced world class footballers to. So what,  it's about the present and the future. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, rudi must stay said:

 

Still is

 

Anyway I reckon Townsend is the right man. He is a positive man who has in my opinion got the team behind him

 

Even although we have clearly gone backwards since Cotter left? 

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Cheers. So it was just our usual bad luck that got us drawn in the same group as the hosts. So typical. 

 

Last time Australia, England and Wales were in same group because at time of draw Wales were lower ranking. 

 

But it was England that got knocked out. 

[shaun.lawson]

4 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Cheers. So it was just our usual bad luck that got us drawn in the same group as the hosts. So typical. 

 

As opposed to 2015, when Scotland, in Pot 3, got the plum draw of Samoa from Pot 2... and, as it turned out, a crap South Africa. England drew Australia and Wales and were eliminated.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Last time Australia, England and Wales were in same group because at time of draw Wales were lower ranking. 

 

But it was England that got knocked out. 

 

True enough I'd forgotten about that. Salad days! 

[shaun.lawson]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Last time Australia, England and Wales were in same group because at time of draw Wales were lower ranking. 

 

But it was England that got knocked out. 

 

Indeed. And that only happened in the first place because of a last minute Aussie try in Cardiff, against a Wales side who stupidly messed their seeding up by playing the game in the first place! 

 

Had Wales held on that day, they'd have drawn New Zealand and no-one else... and Argentina would've been in with Australia and England. And on how they and us played in 2015, they'd have had the pleasure of humiliating us instead.

[shaun.lawson]

My calls for next weekend (apologies to all four in advance):

 

England v Australia (only by 3 points or so though)

 

New Zealand v Ireland (total gut feeling, which I can only compare with the one I had before Chelsea v Barcelona all those years ago)

 

Wales v France (Wales treading water a bit, France completely under the radar)

 

Japan v South Africa (Boks go through after a humdinger of a game)

 

And the Boks to beat England in the final. 

[rudi must stay]

8 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Even although we have clearly gone backwards since Cotter left? 

 

We weren't going anywhere under Cotter. We peaked at that world cup, anyway our tactic was kick the ball straight to the other team then anyway. We followed up a good 6 nations by just escaping the wooden spoon with a win in Italy (hardly a scalp). I would rather have Townsend. Look at Twickenham, as the commentators said that was 'a miracle', but it wasn't he is a smart man who makes good changes and the players play for him 100%, I would argue maybe above themselves. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, rudi must stay said:

 

We weren't going anywhere under Cotter. We peaked at that world cup, anyway our tactic was kick the ball straight to the other team then anyway. We followed up a good 6 nations by just escaping the wooden spoon with a win in Italy (hardly a scalp). I would rather have Townsend. Look at Twickenham, as the commentators said that was 'a miracle', but it wasn't he is a smart man who makes good changes and the players play for him 100%, I would argue maybe above themselves. 

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree. 

[Maroon Sailor]

14 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

We once produced world class footballers to. So what,  it's about the present and the future. 

 

What do you mean so what ?

 

I was only just stating how things have changed ya feckin balloon

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, Maroon Sailor said:

 

What do you mean so what ?

 

I was only just stating how things have changed ya feckin balloon

 

Nice! That wasn't really clear in the post.

[rudi must stay]

7 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree. 

 

I see a plan there. More than the one that was under Cotter. I think the emergence of Laidlaw saved his bacon in that world cup

[Maroon Sailor]

5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Nice! That wasn't really clear in the post.

 

was once ?

 

As opposed to still is ?

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

was once ?

 

As opposed to still is ?

 

Well if you only want to look back fair enough. 

[Maroon Sailor]

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Well if you only want to look back fair enough. 

 

Think you've got the wrong end of the stick. We'll leave it there 

[Stephane Grappelli]

At least it's only rugby.

 

Hope all the annoying, braying tossers who infest the boozers near Murrayfield 3 or 4 times a year enjoyed it though.

[Brighton Jambo]

2 hours ago, rudi must stay said:

 

Exactly how I look at it. Good effort, we are going somewhere under Townsend, the team spirit is there

 

 

Ye we didn't make the most of the 20 minutes or so, didn't move it quite quick enough 

I can’t see how you can say scotland are going somewhere under Townsend.  Six nations was poor and then to be knocked out at the group stages of the World Cup means he has failed to achieve the minimum he should have.  Yes,  lost to a spirited Japan but the performance against Ireland was abject and the bonus point against Samoa was only achieved in last couple of minutes.  It’s been an abject World Cup and he must go.  

 

P.s.  I see above you recognise the twickenham performance.  All the reports suggest the players essentially revolted at half time and openly challenged his tactics.  That result was in spite of Townsend and not because of him.  

Edited October 13, 2019 by Brighton Jambo

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I can’t see how you can say scotland are going somewhere under Townsend.  Six nations was poor and then to be knocked out at the group stages of the World Cup means he has failed to achieve the minimum he should have.  Yes,  lost to a spirited Japan but the performance against Ireland was abject and the bonus point against Samoa was only achieved in last couple of minutes.  It’s been an abject World Cup and he must go.  

 

Yet to my amazement, the spin that's quickly emerging is "he's under pressure for the Six Nations and has to deliver there".

 

That's flat out barking mad. The World Cup towers over all other tournaments in importance - and is the end of a cycle. Sticking with him now would be stubbornness beyond all reason.

[jumpship]

4 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

England have to play Australia then New Zealand.

 

Wales have France then South Africa in way of final. 

Oh, I hadn't realised that... nah! England are f-ed.... 

 

Still hope one of the northern teams win..

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

It was a tough group. Ireland are Ireland and Japan are improving rapidly. The end of Townsend though? Don’t know how I feel about that. For all the promise it doesn’t feel like this is building towards anything

[jumpship]

Result is very disappointing. I honestly thought we would beat Japan.

 

There defence was f-ing rock solid. Battered us in the first half. Hog and Russell did not live up to the hype. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, jumpship said:

Result is very disappointing. I honestly thought we would beat Japan.

 

There defence was f-ing rock solid. Battered us in the first half. Hog and Russell did not live up to the hype. 

 

Russell is so hit and miss that he barely deserves his reputation. Hogg is quality but can’t be expected to perform like a genius in every game.

[shaun.lawson]

 

Told you so.  

 

Unbelievable levels of arrogance and ignorance. 

 

[shaun.lawson]

31 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It was a tough group. Ireland are Ireland and Japan are improving rapidly. The end of Townsend though? Don’t know how I feel about that. For all the promise it doesn’t feel like this is building towards anything

 

Scotland's record in this year's Six Nations was played 5, won 1 (against Italy, which barely even counts).

 

Their record at this World Cup in the only games that counted was played 2, lost 2, blown off the park for 75% of those games.

 

Promise? What promise?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, shaun.lawson said:

 

Scotland's record in this year's Six Nations was played 5, won 1 (against Italy, which barely even counts).

 

Their record at this World Cup in the only games that counted was played 2, lost 2, blown off the park for 75% of those games.

 

Promise? What promise?

 

There was promise once. There isn’t any more. I’d get rid.

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

There was promise once. There isn’t any more. I’d get rid.

 

Scotland also have the fairly recent experience of bizarrely giving their only other coach who led the team to first round elimination the benefit of the doubt. A year later, Andy Robinson was gone after losing at home to Tonga and taking the team to 12th in the world rankings.

 

Not a mistake that should be made again.

[Mikey1874]

I do give credit to the Scottish Rugby guys for fighting with World Rugby.

 

I think this game would have been postponed 3 days ago otherwise. 

 

Japan have got Scotland to thank for that too. 

[Captain Sausage]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

Russell is so hit and miss that he barely deserves his reputation. Hogg is quality but can’t be expected to perform like a genius in every game.

When was the last time Hogg had a standout game? He has been mediocre for 2+ years at international level.

 

Russell is infuriating, because the talent is clearly there. Our first try was great vision, he then almost gave Japan a try before a poor knock on call robbed him of a wonderful assist. 
 

Hopefully Kinghorn and Hastings kick on, because we need Hogg and Russell to be challenged for their number. 
 

Laidlaw is done. Price and Horne from now on. 
 

We have regressed significantly since Cotter left. I’d certainly be up for him returning at a point in the not to distant future. Townsend is clearly not the answer. 

 

[shaun.lawson]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

I do give credit to the Scottish Rugby guys for fighting with World Rugby.

 

I think this game would have been postponed 3 days ago otherwise. 

 

Japan have got Scotland to thank for that too. 

 

Hmm.

 

HMM.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/oct/13/japan-typhoon-rugby-world-cup

[Smack]

1 hour ago, Captain Sausage said:

When was the last time Hogg had a standout game? He has been mediocre for 2+ years at international level.

 

Russell is infuriating, because the talent is clearly there. Our first try was great vision, he then almost gave Japan a try before a poor knock on call robbed him of a wonderful assist. 
 

Hopefully Kinghorn and Hastings kick on, because we need Hogg and Russell to be challenged for their number. 
 

Laidlaw is done. Price and Horne from now on. 
 

We have regressed significantly since Cotter left. I’d certainly be up for him returning at a point in the not to distant future. Townsend is clearly not the answer. 

 

Hogg is a great. He is a marked man though. Agree about Russell and as for Laidlaw.... don't start me. 

[Thommo414]

1 hour ago, Captain Sausage said:

When was the last time Hogg had a standout game? He has been mediocre for 2+ years at international level.

 

Russell is infuriating, because the talent is clearly there. Our first try was great vision, he then almost gave Japan a try before a poor knock on call robbed him of a wonderful assist. 
 

Hopefully Kinghorn and Hastings kick on, because we need Hogg and Russell to be challenged for their number. 
 

Laidlaw is done. Price and Horne from now on. 
 

We have regressed significantly since Cotter left. I’d certainly be up for him returning at a point in the not to distant future. Townsend is clearly not the answer. 

 

I have been fed up with Greig Laidlaw for about 5/6 years. Don't rate his play at all. He can kick a ball which is fair enough but as captain, the amount of times he's decided to have a go at 3 points rather than a line out on the oppositions 5 is absolutely infuriating 

[Mikey1874]

37 minutes ago, Thommo414 said:

I have been fed up with Greig Laidlaw for about 5/6 years. Don't rate his play at all. He can kick a ball which is fair enough but as captain, the amount of times he's decided to have a go at 3 points rather than a line out on the oppositions 5 is absolutely infuriating 

 

From now with Price and Horne to move the ball quickly we can improve markedly. You just have so many more options if you can move the ball quickly. 

 

There is some potential in a fairly young team. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Cruyff Turn]

One positive from this is that Gregor Townsend will now be punted by the SRU. He’s been absolutely useless and has taken us backwards. He should never have been incharge for the last 6 Nations. 

[redjambo]

6 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

One positive from this is that Gregor Townsend will now be punted by the SRU. He’s been absolutely useless and has taken us backwards. He should never have been incharge for the last 6 Nations. 

 

I don't think he will. It will be admitting the mistake they made in hiring him (especially getting rid of Cotter in order to do so). Similar situation in a way to the one here. They'll give him the next 6N.

[Cruyff Turn]

11 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I don't think he will. It will be admitting the mistake they made in hiring him (especially getting rid of Cotter in order to do so). Similar situation in a way to the one here. They'll give him the next 6N.

Unbelievable if they keep him on. He’s made a complete arse off it. 

[Barasa]

Think a lot of the criticism for Laidlaw is harsh, although it's probably about time for him to step aside. Over the last 3 or 4 years he's been a solid, dependable scrum half. Yes he slows the game down a fair bit, but he is a world class goal kicker and gives us an element of control. Ali Price is as frustrating and hit-and-miss as the rest of the backs and although he's a totally different player to Laidlaw, I don't think he'd have made any discernible difference to the performances. Would like to see Horne get a good shot now, this world cup was probably just a year or two too early for him. 

[151]

Just getting into Rugby really, always been one of those "football only" types you know the ones who are so dismissive of Rugby.

 

However, watched a few games of this WC and have grown to enjoy it. I admire the players passion and like watching it. There's a few things that happen on the pitch that I cannot even begin to fathom the point of, and find it bizarre the amount of stoppages.

 

But I was gutted we went out earlier, really wanted to get behind someone and follow it.

[Seymour M Hersh]

6 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

Russell is so hit and miss that he barely deserves his reputation. Hogg is quality but can’t be expected to perform like a genius in every game.

 

Russell is an infuriating player. Capable of moments of absolute brilliance that no others in his position could manage but far too many lapses in judgement and poor decisions. I was hoping moving to a French team might mean less errors but does not appear to be the case yet.