U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[gjcc]

25 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Correct. It took white nationalist rioters directly and violently confronting police, using pepper spray and physical force on them, to get the police to finally respond against them with merely equal force.

Contrast this to how police behaved just in Oregon, as they repeatedly used pepper spray, tear gas, rubber bullets and flash grenades against BLM protesters in the summer, time and again. Protesters who actively wished to avoid confrontation with police, so they could participate in the marching, chanting, praying at vigils, etc., that were the keystone of their protests, 93% of which were peaceful nationwide.

The uk is miles behind where it should be in racial inequality, but feck me the US take it to the next level every single time. It’s institutional.

 

Land of the free*, home of the oppressed. 
 

 

*as long as you are white, male and preferably affluent. 

[Justin Z]

43 minutes ago, gjcc said:

The uk is miles behind where it should be in racial inequality, but feck me the US take it to the next level every single time. It’s institutional.

 

Land of the free*, home of the oppressed. 
 

*as long as you are white, male and preferably affluent. 

 

One woman even tried to scale the building, she was on the ledge of a window. Two troopers “insisted” she climb down. Insisted. She wasn't shot in the back, she wasn't beaten, she wasn't hit with pepper spray or tear gas. She got a strong word of warning.

 

They don't even hide it.

[Lovecraft]

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

9 minutes ago, Lovecraft said:

 

[RobboM]

39 minutes ago, Lovecraft said:

 

Can't get too excited about this As soon as the words "federal investigation" get mentioned surely these are likely to be counted out by a likely Trump presidential pardon?

[Cade]

Did somebody say "emails"?

 

[Sharpie]

Just while brewing my morning coffee watched Lara Trump expound on Fox that there was cheating on the election . The view I would normally take on something like this is she's nuts and go drink the coffee.  This morning it causes me some concern because that whole Trump group are continuing this  not nonsense as common sense requires but dangerous anarchy. In recent days I have heard the words martial action, used men, like Mike Flynn the proponent of this move, men like Barr getting his arse out of there as fast as possible, men like Nunes continuing the myth of stolen election, and Fox News who in most reasonable societies would be shunned for allowing the promotion and presenting the views of what can only be considered by reasonable thinkers as subversive,revolutionary statements on the public wavelengths. Lately I have heard comments about the state of Trumps mental health, right on here myself and others have opined this condition over a period of time. Other posts about recent actions by the Proud Boys are so similar to actions by other groups in the thirties. For someone like myself proud of the service one spent their career in, police attitude and perceived loyalties do sadly come under justified scrutiny. I  concede that my mental state at this time is one of despair, but I really do despair of what it looks like  the near future in the United States is going to bring. January 20th 2021 is going to be a day of extreme importance to America and indeed the World.

 

[Justin Z]

The reincarnation of the Dalai Lama? Check.

 

Ongoing stimulus at least equal to the previous one? No can do. $600 it is.

 

[ri Alban]

He's a bellend. 

Veto of aid

Pardons

And he thinks he's going to continue as president for 4 years. I'd rather he shuts his face and fecks off. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

He's a bellend. 

Veto of aid

Pardons

And he thinks he's going to continue as president for 4 years. I'd rather he shuts his face and fecks off. 

It’s like watching a spoof.

Edited December 23, 2020 by The Real Maroonblood

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

It’s like watching a spoof.

Not much longer til the cuffs go on. 

[Cade]

Pardons 4 defense contractors who were jailed for a civilian massacre in Iraq.

 

They fired into an unarmed crowd with sniper rifles, machine guns and feckin grenade launchers, killing 14 and wounding dozens.

 

Y'know, an actual WAR CRIME.

 

One of them was sentenced to life, the other three were sentenced to 30 years.

But they're out now.

 

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

11 minutes ago, Cade said:

Pardons 4 defense contractors who were jailed for a civilian massacre in Iraq.

 

They fired into an unarmed crowd with sniper rifles, machine guns and feckin grenade launchers, killing 14 and wounding dozens.

 

Y'know, an actual WAR CRIME.

 

One of them was sentenced to life, the other three were sentenced to 30 years.

But they're out now.

 

 

 

Well I thought I’ve saw it all with this sub human piece of shit.

[Justin Z]

Cool.

Joe Biden’s Love of Austerity Cut the Stimulus Bill in Half

 

Biden endorsing an initiative to slash the stimulus bill in half “gave Democrats confidence to pull back on their demands” for a much more robust rescue package at a time when America faces rising food insecurity and poverty. His enthusiastic lauding of the final bill underscores the role he played.

. . .

Notably, Biden’s austerity ideology was not aimed at the $671 billion military spending package that was tacked onto the COVID rescue bill, which also included billions for Trump’s Space Force and new weapons systems. Instead, austerity was targeted at the part of the omnibus legislation that was supposed to help people whose lives have been destroyed by the pandemic.

 

And now Democrats have been hit from the left—again—by Trump. $2,000 checks.

 

They're going to get absolutely steamrollered in 2022 and 2024.

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Justin Z

[redjambo]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

Pardons 4 defense contractors who were jailed for a civilian massacre in Iraq.

 

They fired into an unarmed crowd with sniper rifles, machine guns and feckin grenade launchers, killing 14 and wounding dozens.

 

Y'know, an actual WAR CRIME.

 

One of them was sentenced to life, the other three were sentenced to 30 years.

But they're out now.

 

This isn't justice. Clemency should only be given in cases where there appears to have been a miscarriage of justice or where strong compassionate grounds exist, imo. It's disgusting. It breaks the rule of law. The President should stick to pardoning turkeys.

[Sharpie]

7 hours ago, ri Alban said:

He's a bellend. 

Veto of aid

Pardons

And he thinks he's going to continue as president for 4 years. I'd rather he shuts his face and fecks off. 

 

It wouldn't be so bad if he was only thinking of four years, his aim is to be President for life, and when he goes as a result of conclusion of life one of his family to take over. With his once expressed feelings about his daughter I suspect it would be her to inherit.

[westbow]

26 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

This isn't justice. Clemency should only be given in cases where there appears to have been a miscarriage of justice or where strong compassionate grounds exist, imo. It's disgusting. It breaks the rule of law. The President should stick to pardoning turkeys.

Another use is to lessen the severity of convictions. Obama used his clemency powers to grant 330 commutations on his last full day in office. He also issued more commutations, whilst in office, than the last 13 presidents combined. They were generally for correcting mandatory and lengthy sentences dished out during the "war on drugs". No idea if Trump continued with this.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, westbow said:

Another use is to lessen the severity of convictions. Obama used his clemency powers to grant 330 commutations on his last full day in office. He also issued more commutations, whilst in office, than the last 13 presidents combined. They were generally for correcting mandatory and lengthy sentences dished out during the "war on drugs". No idea if Trump continued with this.

 

Good point, westbow. Commutations might also be in order for any inmates imprisoned for unjustly long periods in jurisdictions using the three strikes system.

[westbow]

15 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Good point, westbow. Commutations might also be in order for any inmates imprisoned for unjustly long periods in jurisdictions using the three strikes system.

He has also had a few surprise pardons: Alice Johnson, Susan B.Anthony, Gov. Rod Blagojevich (Dem), Jack Johnson. Loads of cronies, some deserving others definitely not.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

I suppose those Blackwater murderers will spend the rest of their lives waiting for Al Quaeda to deliver justice?

[Sharpie]

Its funny these Pardons come up, I read in the paper the other day there was an execution after a sentence passed seventeen years ago.

 I am neither a strong advocate for or against capital punishment, but I would suggest from my simple view that length of time Death Row can only be described as cruel and unusual punishment with the threat of execution in the accused's mind. I had also read that Trump was pushing to have executions carried out yet he Pardons a convicted murderer.

[Cade]

Biden has pledged to abolish the death penalty for federal crimes.

The USA has not carried out any federal executions for 17 years.

Donald J Trump is killing as many as possible purely out of spite.

[ri Alban]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

Biden has pledged to abolish the death penalty for federal crimes.

The USA has not carried out any federal executions for 17 years.

Donald J Trump is killing as many as possible purely out of spite.

Why are said  people on death row? 

[Justin Z]

 

 

I honestly don't know what I was expecting voting for one of the guys who built the cages. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[Tazio]

Charles Kushner sounds like a real sweetheart. Sets his brother in law up with a prostitute he has hired, has it filmed, then presents it to his sister. Quite willing to destroy his sister’s marriage as revenge for her and her husband being willing to talk to the authorities. 
Sounds like young Jared is a natural fit in the Trump family unit. 

[Sharpie]

23 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Why are said  people on death row? 

Generally for murder I would think. They have been tried found guilty by a Court of their peers and been given the maximum sentence. The problem I have with the sentence is the length of time, generally caused by appeals that is taken to carry out the execution. No doubt some of the people involved totally deserve the execution, but in a case I mentioned recently seventeen years is too long.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Sharpie

[ri Alban]

8 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

Generally for murder I would think. They have been tried found guilty by a Court of their peers and been given the maximum sentence. The problem I have with the sentence is the length of time, generally caused by appeals that is taken to carry out the execution. No doubt some of the people involved totally deserve the execution, but in a case I mentioned recently seventeen years is too long.

17 years more alive. 

[John Gentleman]

14 hours ago, Tazio said:

Charles Kushner sounds like a real sweetheart. Sets his brother in law up with a prostitute he has hired, has it filmed, then presents it to his sister. Quite willing to destroy his sister’s marriage as revenge for her and her husband being willing to talk to the authorities. 
Sounds like young Jared is a natural fit in the Trump family unit. 

It's appalling, isn't it? Does the USA even pretend to be a democracy bedrocked in the rule of law? These 'pardons', at the whim of a presidents as they're about to relinquish office, beggar belief to my 'Westminster' eyes. No PM in this tradition would get away with this. No wonder the US is classified as a 'flawed' democracy. If this shitshow of 'democracy' is the beacon for the rest of the world, I'll run with monarchial/Westminster until someone invents something better.

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

It's appalling, isn't it? Does the USA even pretend to be a democracy bedrocked in the rule of law? These 'pardons', at the whim of a presidents as they're about to relinquish office, beggar belief to my 'Westminster' eyes. No PM in this tradition would get away with this. No wonder the US is classified as a 'flawed' democracy. If this shitshow of 'democracy' is the beacon for the rest of the world, I'll run with monarchial/Westminster until someone invents something better.

It’s a disgrace.

The UK to a lesser extent just awards peerages and knighthoods.

[Mikey1874]

On 23/12/2020 at 10:51, Justin Z said:

Cool.

Joe Biden’s Love of Austerity Cut the Stimulus Bill in Half

 

Biden endorsing an initiative to slash the stimulus bill in half “gave Democrats confidence to pull back on their demands” for a much more robust rescue package at a time when America faces rising food insecurity and poverty. His enthusiastic lauding of the final bill underscores the role he played.

. . .

Notably, Biden’s austerity ideology was not aimed at the $671 billion military spending package that was tacked onto the COVID rescue bill, which also included billions for Trump’s Space Force and new weapons systems. Instead, austerity was targeted at the part of the omnibus legislation that was supposed to help people whose lives have been destroyed by the pandemic.

 

And now Democrats have been hit from the left—again—by Trump. $2,000 checks.

 

They're going to get absolutely steamrollered in 2022 and 2024.

 

 

Also some lesser known parts of the package

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

What I don't understand, is why can't Biden reverse Trump's pardon's using an executive order, especially pre-emptive pardon's.

It just seems crazy to me that any president can pardon someone before their alleged crimes are public knowledge.

[The Real Maroonblood]

8 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

What I don't understand, is why can't Biden reverse Trump's pardon's using an executive order, especially pre-emptive pardon's.

It just seems crazy to me that any president can pardon someone before their alleged crimes are public knowledge.

Basket case country is not used often enough to describe the USA.

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Also some lesser known parts of the package

 

 

Why have you put citizens $600. How much is it in total? 

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Why have you put citizens $600. How much is it in total? 

 

Each

[ri Alban]

9 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Each

So? $196, 800,000,000

Edited December 25, 2020 by ri Alban

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

51 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Why have you put citizens $600. How much is it in total? 

at 275,000,000 adults thats $165,000.000.000 but if raised to $2000 each then nearly $500 Trillion all those foreign aid budgets listed only make $5 trillion of which many are about trade and political support.

[trotter]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

So $196,800,000,000

Its not for the entire population, rather only those that qualify (adults either unemployed or earning below a specific wage bracket i believe). My missus won't get it for example. She didn't get the last one either. 

[Sharpie]

Large explosion in Nashville.  A motor home was blown up, damaging property no lives lost Police say it was a deliberate action, police were already attending due to a report that shots were fired. No suspects, Trump has been contacted, and sends Gods blessings to all involved, will be kept aware of what was going on. I am aware it is not technically a Trump thread but given the times and actions by some Trump activists there is some reason to contemplate it may transpire to be relevant to the President and some of his acolytes.

[Rodger Mellie]

1 hour ago, trotter said:

Its not for the entire population, rather only those that qualify (adults either unemployed or earning below a specific wage bracket i believe). My missus won't get it for example. She didn't get the last one either. 

As far as I’m aware most US Citizens and Legal Permanent Residents are eligible to receive the payment. I think there are exceptions including married couples with combined earnings over $174000, those with no social security number and those not known to the IRS. Both my wife and I were in employment and received the $1200 payment last time.

[trotter]

38 minutes ago, Rodger Mellie said:

As far as I’m aware most US Citizens and Legal Permanent Residents are eligible to receive the payment. I think there are exceptions including married couples with combined earnings over $174000, those with no social security number and those not known to the IRS. Both my wife and I were in employment and received the $1200 payment last time.

Just spoke to the missus to confirm, she wasn't eligible as she earns over 80k last time. Thats been dropped to 75k this time so she still won't get it. 

 

The point I was making is that RAs number assumed the entire population would receive it, they don't, so the total number isn't quite as horrible. Still a big number though...

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, trotter said:

Just spoke to the missus to confirm, she wasn't eligible as she earns over 80k last time. Thats been dropped to 75k this time so she still won't get it. 

 

The point I was making is that RAs number assumed the entire population would receive it, they don't, so the total number isn't quite as horrible. Still a big number though...

 

I'm not an American so don't have a finger in the apple pie, but personally I would like to see a larger amount given to folk with lower incomes (e.g. minimum income) to whom it will really make a difference. 600$ to someone who earns 75k is nothing. But that would probably be seen as "socialist".

[Cade]

 

 

[JFK-1]

10 hours ago, John Gentleman said:

It's appalling, isn't it? Does the USA even pretend to be a democracy bedrocked in the rule of law?

 

The Republicans have abandoned any pretence of being remotely interested in democracy as Sam Harris expertly breaks down in this talk.
 

 

[trotter]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

I'm not an American so don't have a finger in the apple pie, but personally I would like to see a larger amount given to folk with lower incomes (e.g. minimum income) to whom it will really make a difference. 600$ to someone who earns 75k is nothing. But that would probably be seen as "socialist".

Exactly. I had this very conversation with a couple of mates two nights ago at dinner. The general consensus is that even if they raise it to the $2k that Trump wants, it's still essentially nothing. I don't mean to sound flippant, but when you add up the cost of living, especially with a family, $2k will last you about a week.

 

A much better way to spend that pot of money would be to guarantee rent for those that are truly struggling. That way they can use what money they do have coming in to live on without having to worry about the bailiffs coming to the door. This is an unprecedented problem that simply occassionally throwing money at won't solve. Unfortunately America, or a large part of it, doesn't understand the difference between 'help' and 'socialism/communism' (which they see as the same thing). I got into it with some dick a while back about how he thought the UK was a socialist country and how socialist programs don't work. He was enjoying his rant until i politely reminded him that the VA system in the US is a government funded socialist aid system. "Yeah, but that's different..." He was an arsehole, but that's a story for another day.

 

Me and the missus are both lucky in that we still have relatively well paid jobs, a lot of people don't have that luxury. If I recieved a check tomorrow, I would cash it and immediately give the money to people I know who actually need it. That's not socialism, that's called basic ******* human decency

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, trotter said:

Exactly. I had this very conversation with a couple of mates two nights ago at dinner. The general consensus is that even if they raise it to the $2k that Trump wants, it's still essentially nothing. I don't mean to sound flippant, but when you add up the cost of living, especially with a family, $2k will last you about a week.

 

A much better way to spend that pot of money would be to guarantee rent for those that are truly struggling.

 

An excellent idea.

[Rodger Mellie]

2 hours ago, trotter said:

Just spoke to the missus to confirm, she wasn't eligible as she earns over 80k last time. Thats been dropped to 75k this time so she still won't get it. 

 

The point I was making is that RAs number assumed the entire population would receive it, they don't, so the total number isn't quite as horrible. Still a big number though...

That’s interesting that your wife was deemed ineligble. My wife did receive the payment and she earned over a 100k at the time of the payment 🤷she’s under the impression she will be eligible for the next check too. 

[John Gentleman]

52 minutes ago, Rodger Mellie said:

That’s interesting that your wife was deemed ineligble. My wife did receive the payment and she earned over a 100k at the time of the payment 🤷she’s under the impression she will be eligible for the next check too. 

Do people actually receive 'physical' checks (cheques)?

[Rodger Mellie]

1 hour ago, trotter said:

Exactly. I had this very conversation with a couple of mates two nights ago at dinner. The general consensus is that even if they raise it to the $2k that Trump wants, it's still essentially nothing. I don't mean to sound flippant, but when you add up the cost of living, especially with a family, $2k will last you about a week.

 

A much better way to spend that pot of money would be to guarantee rent for those that are truly struggling. That way they can use what money they do have coming in to live on without having to worry about the bailiffs coming to the door. This is an unprecedented problem that simply occassionally throwing money at won't solve. Unfortunately America, or a large part of it, doesn't understand the difference between 'help' and 'socialism/communism' (which they see as the same thing). I got into it with some dick a while back about how he thought the UK was a socialist country and how socialist programs don't work. He was enjoying his rant until i politely reminded him that the VA system in the US is a government funded socialist aid system. "Yeah, but that's different..." He was an arsehole, but that's a story for another day.

 

Me and the missus are both lucky in that we still have relatively well paid jobs, a lot of people don't have that luxury. If I recieved a check tomorrow, I would cash it and immediately give the money to people I know who actually need it. That's not socialism, that's called basic ******* human decency

Good post. We used our payments  to support my wife’s parents (her dad  is currently unemployed due to Covid and her mum is unable to work), and give monthly donations to various charities. Discussing socialism with some Americans is very frustrating (I include my in laws in that). I work in a hospital and once some people hear my accent and twig I’m from the UK, they get ripped into the NHS. It’s nigh on impossible trying to reason with them regarding the benefits of the NHS over private healthcare. I guess they watch the US news and see all the fake NHS horror stories and take them as gospel. 

[Rodger Mellie]

2 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

Do people actually receive 'physical' checks (cheques)?

Yes, some people do. Ours got deposited straight into our bank account as a payment by the IRS. Glad I didn’t get the Cheque with the dafties name on it!

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, trotter said:

Just spoke to the missus to confirm, she wasn't eligible as she earns over 80k last time. Thats been dropped to 75k this time so she still won't get it. 

 

The point I was making is that RAs number assumed the entire population would receive it, they don't, so the total number isn't quite as horrible. Still a big number though...

I just put the entire population, in hope I'd get an exact figure in return. The op had an exact total for everything else except the political point scoring $600. Even if it's $1T, that's some amount compared to the list they used as propaganda.