U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Which is another factor in my 'he has no chance' if people just come out and vote statement. These people who threw away a vote on a candidate who cannot win are surely convinced that this time there can be no such nonsense.

They have to remove this obvious maniac before he does something the country may never recover from. I truly feel he's crazy enough to go down like Hitler.

By January 1945 and in fact even earlier than that it was obvious to everyone that the allies had won the war. The rational course was to negotiate a surrender to prevent first their country being over-run by the Soviets and secondly prevent it being utterly destroyed.

There was no surrender till the Soviets were barely a mile from the bunker in Berlin because Hitler had decided long before that he was not going to survive the defeat. The final pointless destruction costing at least a million lives was nothing but giving him a final few months of life.

Trump also is crazy, if it looks like he's going down who knows what he's capable of. And currently Biden is holding a steady lead in the polls which is driving Trump into even crazier mode.

He cannot win if everyone comes out to vote, so for one thing he will strive to suppress as many voters as possible. I feel he may even attempt to cancel the election using the pandemic as an excuse.

Sort of the equivalent of Hitler refusing to surrender when all was clearly lost. Ordered the destruction of all German infrastructure and industry to take the German people down with him. An order Albert Speer sanely and luckily for the Germans refused to implement.

If there's a real chance of Trump being jailed which apparently there is he's capable of anything before he goes down. The current riots are nothing in comparison to the mayhem he could unleash as he denies he lost the coming election as we all know he will if it does indeed go against him. 

 

I think there is the very real possibility that dozens maybe even hundreds of armed to the teeth Trump supporters ringing the White House to defend their man, because Trump will not go quietly, he will never accept defeat, he will never believe that he's lost, he'll claim all manner of shenanigans have went on, that's he's been cheated out of the presidency, that's it's a coup by the deep state and his crazies will believe it all.

[Cade]

If the election result is not a Democrat landslide, Trump will have to be forcibly removed from the White House, strapped to a trolley like Hannibal Lecter.

Which will be amusing.

 

It's vital that everybody on the streets this week also turn out to the ballot box and put a cross in the blue box otherwise it's all for nothing.

Yes, this is despite Biden being not much better than the current imbecile in the Oval Office.

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Cade

[Tennant's 6's]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Most of the people you refer to are likely uninterested in voting.  Only 55% of eligible voters cast a ballot last time.

 

It's said that a low turnout benefits Republicans (I don't know why), which is presumably the reason Republicans try to make voting as awkward as possible.

Not only uninterested, but systematically removed from voter rolls, a lot of the time without the people even being aware. 

Gregg Palast wrote a great book on the Ballot Bandits, orchestrated by the GOP, but DNC go along with it..

The 2 party paradigm working nicely 

[Tennant's 6's]

33 minutes ago, Cade said:

If the election result is not a Democrat landslide, Trump will have to be forcibly removed from the White House, strapped to a trolley like Hannibal Lecter.

Which will be amusing.

 

It's vital that everybody on the streets this week also turn out to the ballot box and put a cross in the blue box otherwise it's all for nothing.

Yes, this is despite Biden being not much better than the current imbecile in the Oval Office.

 

Biden would probably be worse,  looks like he's got early on set dementia. He's as corrupt as they come, doing the bidding of the donor class.

Trump is just a crass version of charismatic obama, or goofy bush or suave Clinton.

Nothing changes. What's that quote,  'trump is US policy without the make up'

[Maple Leaf]

3 minutes ago, Tennant's 6's said:

Biden would probably be worse,  looks like he's got early on set dementia. He's as corrupt as they come, doing the bidding of the donor class.

Trump is just a crass version of charismatic obama, or goofy bush or suave Clinton.

Nothing changes. What's that quote,  'trump is US policy without the make up'

 

I've posted before on this thread, that I just shake my head in disbelief that Trump and Biden are the two best candidates that the American political system can produce.

 

Biden really needs to pick his running mate carefully ... another elderly white man would be jaw-dropping to me.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

I've posted before on this thread, that I just shake my head in disbelief that Trump and Biden are the two best candidates that the American political system can produce.

 

Biden really needs to pick his running mate carefully ... another elderly white man would be jaw-dropping to me.

The UK equivalent was Johnson and Corbyn.

Horrendous choice.

[Tennant's 6's]

3 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

I've posted before on this thread, that I just shake my head in disbelief that Trump and Biden are the two best candidates that the American political system can produce.

 

Biden really needs to pick his running mate carefully ... another elderly white man would be jaw-dropping to me.

Well it seems like the DNC have got all the 'squad' in line now. Really disappointed that Tulsi gabbard endorsed that old fool, and bernie just seems weak. 

Ralph Nader would have been great, Jesse Ventura would be interesting. 

But those who don't toe the line and take corporate $ seem to be weeded out unfortunately 

[Governor Tarkin]

Some pretty full on Saville allegations being circulated about Trump on twitter. 

[Justin Z]

[kila]

There is a lot of data out there on the internet waiting to be harvested and linked - the sort of thing Facebook does.

 

Like @Barack says, Anonymous might be onto something here. The Panama Papers leak was massive in size, and to correlate to other data would require massive computing power. Not a problem if you're a hacker group.

 

The dots are slowly being joined... I just hope it leads to something big and for the better.

 

This is the sort of thing you'd see in a Mr Robot episode.

[Justin Z]

https://twitter.com/GravelInstitute/status/1267175597840781312

 

 

[Unknown user]

9 hours ago, Barack said:

Anonymous have flat out called him out for child rape/trafficking. They've implicated people like Naomi Campbell.

 

And they've got receipts.

 

Without proof I'll take them with a pinch of salt after they helped him get voted in the last time.

 

[Jeff]

34 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Without proof I'll take them with a pinch of salt after they helped him get voted in the last time.

 

 

There's documents but they could easily have been doctored.

 

Would not shock me if true though.

[Unknown user]

51 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

There's documents but they could easily have been doctored.

 

Would not shock me if true though.

 

Me neither, I just don't trust a group that doesn't know who sets it's ideology or who leads it. They got taken for mugs last time and ran with all the Hillary stuff, helping that dick get voted in. Cynical money led them last time but then they're naive bairns, blindly loyal to a blank face and easily manipulated by anyone who gets to a person of influence in the group. 

[Maple Leaf]

Rioters in Washington got close to the White House, so Trump and his family were moved to an underground bunker for about an hour.  

 

Hollywood could develop a script like this, but who'd believe it?  The President of the USA being moved to a bunker because of a possible threat from American citizens. This is the same guy who refuses to wear a mask because he thinks it makes him look like a wimp!

 

 

[Justin Z]

8 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

Rioters in Washington got close to the White House, so Trump and his family were moved to an underground bunker for about an hour.  

 

Hollywood could develop a script like this, but who'd believe it?  The President of the USA being moved to a bunker because of a possible threat from American citizens. This is the same guy who refuses to wear a mask because he thinks it makes him look like a wimp!

 

Unfortunately, unlike the last fascist America helped kick the ass of, Trump emerged from his bunker.

[I P Knightley]

20 hours ago, Barack said:

Anonymous have flat out called him out for child rape/trafficking. They've implicated people like Naomi Campbell.

 

And they've got receipts.

Is this linked to the fact that "Madeline McCann" is top trending on Twitter this morning?

 

5 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

Rioters in Washington got close to the White House, so Trump and his family were moved to an underground bunker for about an hour.  

 

Hollywood could develop a script like this, but who'd believe it?  The President of the USA being moved to a bunker because of a possible threat from American citizens. This is the same guy who refuses to wear a mask because he thinks it makes him look like a wimp!

 

 

I've worn anti-pollution/pollen masks while cycling and can testify that the face gets a bit sweaty behind them. I can only imagine how I'd look taking one off when my face had been painted orange.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

Some of the people apparently in the little black book listed on cnn. Includes CEO at my work.

 

https://www.ccn.com/from-chris-tucker-to-dustin-hoffman-the-anonymous-epstein-leak-will-shock-you/

 

[milky_26]

39 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Some of the people apparently in the little black book listed on cnn. Includes CEO at my work.

 

https://www.ccn.com/from-chris-tucker-to-dustin-hoffman-the-anonymous-epstein-leak-will-shock-you/

 

minor point that is not cnn, it is ccn

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

25 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

minor point that is not cnn, it is ccn

Well spotted, I was outside on phone when I posted it. Sunlight playing havoc with my screen.

 

[JFK-1]

On 31/05/2020 at 13:33, Maple Leaf said:

It's said that a low turnout benefits Republicans (I don't know why), which is presumably the reason Republicans try to make voting as awkward as possible.

 

That always puzzled me too but apparently it's a real thing. It's discussed in this video.
 

 

[Boof]

Let's say, hypothetically (please!), somehow Trump gets re-elected, gets sworn in and then is unable to complete his term of office and Pence has to take over (I'm assuming Pence will be his VP again - haven't checked if he's running mate).

 

So Pence serves 3.75 years as POTUS.

 

Is he then permitted to stand for two elected terms of office as POTUS or has he used up one of them by becoming it upon Trump's removal from office (whatever form that takes)?

[Dawnrazor]

3 minutes ago, Boof said:

Let's say, hypothetically (please!), somehow Trump gets re-elected, gets sworn in and then is unable to complete his term of office and Pence has to take over (I'm assuming Pence will be his VP again - haven't checked if he's running mate).

 

So Pence serves 3.75 years as POTUS.

 

Is he then permitted to stand for two elected terms of office as POTUS or has he used up one of them by becoming it upon Trump's removal from office (whatever form that takes)?

I can't help but think the riots and looting will play into his hands and strengthen his core vote.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

16 minutes ago, Boof said:

Let's say, hypothetically (please!), somehow Trump gets re-elected, gets sworn in and then is unable to complete his term of office and Pence has to take over (I'm assuming Pence will be his VP again - haven't checked if he's running mate).

 

So Pence serves 3.75 years as POTUS.

 

Is he then permitted to stand for two elected terms of office as POTUS or has he used up one of them by becoming it upon Trump's removal from office (whatever form that takes)?

You genuinely think Trump won’t be re-elected?!?

[Boof]

2 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

You genuinely think Trump won’t be re-elected?!?

 

I genuinely haven't a ****ing clue. Thinking as a rational person I can't for the life of me see why anyone would vote for him...but plenty do.

 

But that has no relevance to my question.

 

Can someone serve 2 and a bit terms as POTUS i.e. one bumped up from VP and 2 elected in their own right or 1+1?

[Maple Leaf]

21 minutes ago, Boof said:

Let's say, hypothetically (please!), somehow Trump gets re-elected, gets sworn in and then is unable to complete his term of office and Pence has to take over (I'm assuming Pence will be his VP again - haven't checked if he's running mate).

 

So Pence serves 3.75 years as POTUS.

 

Is he then permitted to stand for two elected terms of office as POTUS or has he used up one of them by becoming it upon Trump's removal from office (whatever form that takes)?

 

He can finish the partial term, then run for re-election twice.  That means, in your example, he can serve as POTUS for 11.75 years.

 

[Justin Z]

20 minutes ago, Boof said:

Let's say, hypothetically (please!), somehow Trump gets re-elected, gets sworn in and then is unable to complete his term of office and Pence has to take over (I'm assuming Pence will be his VP again - haven't checked if he's running mate).

 

So Pence serves 3.75 years as POTUS.

 

Is he then permitted to stand for two elected terms of office as POTUS or has he used up one of them by becoming it upon Trump's removal from office (whatever form that takes)?

 

@Maple Leaf That's not right.

 

In your example, @Boof, Pence would have used up one of them because he was in office for more than two years per the 22nd Amendment.

 

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of President more than once.

[Boof]

2 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

He can finish the partial term, then run for re-election twice.  That means, in your example, he can serve as POTUS for 11.75 years.

 

 

Thank you. {edit} and to Justin too

 

And 

 

So up to 10 years...?

Edited June 1, 2020 by Boof

[Maple Leaf]

6 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

You genuinely think Trump won’t be re-elected?!?

 

It doesn't matter what people think.  Things change quickly in politics, so 6 months is a long time.

 

So many things are uncertain here on June 1.  The economy is a mess, but that can change.  Unemployment numbers are sky-high, but that can change.  The virus has killed over 100,000 Americans, Trump has mishandled the pandemic, but will people remember that in November?  etc etc.

[Maple Leaf]

3 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

@Maple Leaf That's not right.

 

In your example, @Boof, Pence would have used up one of them because he was in office for more than two years per the 22nd Amendment.

 

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of President more than once.

 

Ignore me @Boof.  I defer to @Justin Z.

 

[Horatio Caine]

30 minutes ago, Boof said:

Let's say, hypothetically (please!), somehow Trump gets re-elected, gets sworn in and then is unable to complete his term of office and Pence has to take over (I'm assuming Pence will be his VP again - haven't checked if he's running mate).

 

So Pence serves 3.75 years as POTUS.

 

Is he then permitted to stand for two elected terms of office as POTUS or has he used up one of them by becoming it upon Trump's removal from office (whatever form that takes)?

Does anybody know what the point is of Pence?  Apart from following Trump around like a wee dog.

[Justin Z]

Just now, Horatio Caine said:

Does anybody know what the point is of Pence?  Apart from following Trump around like a wee dog.

 

You've just described it exactly.

 

 

An Embarrassing Story of Pence's Unrequited Love for Trump

 

Nicholas describes Pence as “gushing” and frequently “taking pains to ensure that Trump has no cause to turn on him.” The VP is Trump’s No. 1 ally, even in private White House meetings, where he’s loath to disagree with his boss. Nicholas relays one incident following a meeting in which former White House chief economic adviser Gary Cohn raised objections to Trump’s comments following the 2017 white nationalist rally in Charlottesville.

In front of the president, Pence said nothing to back up Cohn. After the meeting broke up, he climbed the flight of stairs to Cohn’s office and told him he’d been right, people familiar with the matter said. “I’m proud of you,” he told Cohn — a declaration that might have had more meaning had it been made in Trump’s presence.

Brave.

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, Horatio Caine said:

Does anybody know what the point is of Pence?  Apart from following Trump around like a wee dog.

 

When it comes to commentary about the office of vice president of the United States, no statement is more repeated than John Nance Garner's observation that the office "is not worth a bucket of warm spit."

 

Pence doesn't even live up to that standard.

[JJ93]

His statement was very good.

 

Typical BBC to talk about it as if he said something else.

[JJ93]

9 minutes ago, Barack said:

He's actually gone and done it.

 

He's brought the country to the brink of anarchy with one statement.

 

 

Hardly...

[JJ93]

1 hour ago, Boof said:

 

I genuinely haven't a ****ing clue. Thinking as a rational person I can't for the life of me see why anyone would vote for him...but plenty do.

 

But that has no relevance to my question.

 

Can someone serve 2 and a bit terms as POTUS i.e. one bumped up from VP and 2 elected in their own right or 1+1?

Not a massive fan of his but his policies were far better than Clinton's. Some people will fall for personality politics, others care about policies etc...

[Unknown user]

17 minutes ago, JJ93 said:

Not a massive fan of his but his policies were far better than Clinton's. Some people will fall for personality politics, others care about policies etc...

Yeah, build a stupid wall, they'll pay for it, and **** healthcare.

Away and bollocks. 

[JJ93]

9 minutes ago, Barack said:

If any Governor requests troops to be mobilized(which they'd have to be ****ing nuts to) against Americans under the pretence of The Insurrection Act of 1807, the Country will go ****ing mental.

 

It's not just my personal opinion. Just read online, from any rational, non-partisan person.

 

Tear-gas peaceful protest out of a park, for a photo-OP outside a church? That's not normal.

Anarchy is the absence of authority - that's my point. Yeah was pretty weird that he did that but he does love attention!

[Tazio]

Posing with a bible i. His hand to make sure he keeps people onside. It’s a miracle it didn’t burst into ****ing flames when he picked it up. 

[JJ93]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Yeah, build a stupid wall, they'll pay for it, and **** healthcare.

Away and bollocks. 

Obamacare was a nightmare. As is the FDA. Neither is the answer.

[JJ93]

It's quite worrying how people get so angry over his personality but can't name any of his policies (other than the wall).

 

Not a fan of his but there is much more to politics than the personality of the individual in quesiton.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, JJ93 said:

Obamacare was a nightmare. As is the FDA. Neither is the answer.

Millions losing access to affordable healthcare is the nightmare. The answer to something bad isn't make it worse, which it undoubtedly is now.

[JackLadd]

What a nut he is. Battered those kids out the way to hold up a bible photo op. 

[Norm]

Are we sure his real name isn't Wormwood? 

[Shanks said no]

As stage managed events go it was pretty spectacular, it was obvious about 20 minutes before kick off what the score was going to be. As a popular TV host and celebrity quite a coup, as POTUS it was jaw droppingly outrageous.

 

Now we move onto injury time.

[Unknown user]

Crazy times 

[Tazio]

19 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

Are we sure his real name isn't Wormwood? 

Shudder

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, JJ93 said:

His statement was very good.

 

Typical BBC to talk about it as if he said something else.

 

The actual **** are you talking about?

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, JJ93 said:

Not a massive fan of his but his policies were far better than Clinton's. Some people will fall for personality politics, others care about policies etc...

 

Fair enough @JJ93. 

 

I despise the man because of who he is, but I'm certainly interested in hearing about the policies of his that you like.  This is not a "gotcha" attempt by me ... I genuinely can't think of any good Trump policies.

[Pasquale for King]

On 31/05/2020 at 16:33, JFK-1 said:

Can we stop pretending Trump is fit to be president?

 

At various times over the past three and a half years, many of us have asked what would happen if President Trump truly went over the edge or if his behavior became so frightening that his unfitness for the most powerful position on Earth could no longer be denied.

 

But the human capacity for denial is apparently almost infinite. Let’s review what our president has been up to in the past few days:

 

With the death toll from covid-19 about to top 100,000, Trump has offered almost nothing in the way of tributes to the dead, sympathy for their families, or acknowledgement of our national mourning.

By all accounts he is barely bothering to manage his administration’s response to the pandemic, preferring to focus on cheerleading for an economic recovery he says is on its way, even as he feeds conspiracy theories about the death toll being inflated. This weekend, he went golfing.

In a Twitter spasm on Saturday and Sunday, Trump retweeted mockery of former Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams’s weight and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s (D-Calif.) looks, along with a tweet calling Hillary Clinton a “skank.”

Eager to start a new culture war flare-up, he urged churches to open and gather parishioners in a room to breathe the same air, threatening that he would “override” governors whose shutdown orders still forbade such gatherings. The president has no such power.

 

He all but accused talk show host Joe Scarborough of murdering a young woman who died in 2001 in the then-congressman’s district office, bringing untold torture to her family from the conspiracy theorists who will respond to his accusation.

 

He has repeatedly insisted that the upcoming election is being “rigged” because states run by both Republicans and Democrats are making it easier to vote by mail, seeking to delegitimize a vote that has yet to occur, despite the substantial evidence that mail voting advantages neither party.

The truth is that Trump is not much more despicable of a human being than he has always been; it’s just that standard Trumpian behavior becomes more horrifying when it occurs during an ongoing national crisis. It is reality that changed around him, and he was incapable of responding to it.

 

We all know this. In public, Republicans may say that the real villain in the pandemic is China, or that all those deaths — and the tens of thousands yet to come — were inevitable, or that it is essential to get the economy moving. But they know as well as the rest of us do what a catastrophic failure Trump has been.

 

They must own the moral choice they now make. In 2016, they said Trump would grow serious and sober once he was faced with the awesome responsibilities of the office. There was little reason at the time to think it would happen, but it was at least possible.

 

No one can say that now. Not only do we know who Trump is, we know who he will always be. And we know that reelecting him will be disastrous in a hundred ways.

 

If you gave many Republicans in Washington truth serum, they’d say, “Of course he’s unfit to be president. Of course he’s corrupt, of course he’s incompetent, of course he’s the most dishonest person ever to step into the Oval Office. But I can live with that, because him being reelected means Republicans keep power, we get more conservative judges and we get all the policies we favor.”

 

That is the choice they’re making. We all know it, even if they’ll never say it out loud.

 

I’m not sure how I’d feel or what I’d do if was faced with a similar choice as a liberal, because it’s impossible to imagine a liberal version of Trump becoming the nominee of the Democratic Party — or even what a liberal version of Trump would look like. But we can see how Democrats grappled recently with their own questions about former vice president Joe Biden and the compromises they might have to make about him.

 

When a woman named Tara Reade alleged that Biden had sexually assaulted her in the early 1990s when she worked in his Senate office, the response among those who wish to see Trump defeated in November was complicated, to say the least. Some criticized Biden, some questioned Reade’s story and some remained agnostic pending further information.

 

And some, showing a forthrightness Republicans have not been willing to muster, said that even if they came to believe Reade’s story was true, they’d still vote for Biden, not just because Trump has been credibly accused of sexual misconduct by no fewer than two dozen women, but also because even if Biden turned out to be guilty, it would still be unfortunate but necessary to choose him over the most dangerously unfit president in American history.

 

In the days since, so many questions have been raised about Reade’s story that she has few defenders left; her own lawyer dropped her as a client. That has left Democrats breathing a sigh of relief, as they seem to have been excused from making a painful but necessary choice. Nevertheless, they grappled, candidly and publicly, with what it would mean for them if Reade were telling the truth.

 

The Republicans who support Trump have seldom done that, perhaps because there is no way to do so without acknowledging how morally indefensible that support has been. And as we approach another election, they’ll tell themselves that Trump isn’t as bad as he looks, or that Joe Biden is a monster, or that all that matters is winning.

 

In the future, when we look back on this dark period, we should resist the temptation to focus solely on Trump himself. To do so would be to excuse those who know exactly what he is but pretend they can work to keep him in office and remain unsullied. They cannot, and their moral culpability becomes clearer every day.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/25/can-we-stop-pretending-trump-is-fit-be-president/

Thanks for that.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Pasquale for King