U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Also, I gave Pence too much credit. He brought in a "Christian rabbi" to do the prayers at a campaign event.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/rafaelshimunov/status/1057062637320790017

 

I'd still take him over Trump but a move that tone deaf isn't an accident.

[ri Alban]

13 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

My definition of religious extremism is perhaps a bit wider than yours.

As is perhaps to be expected from an atheist.

Atheists are also religious extremists. 

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, alfajambo said:

 

 

Do own guns? 

[Geoff the Mince]

Anyone believing Fox or CNN is a feckin clown . 

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Atheists are also religious extremists. 

No-one has said all religious people are extremist. You suggest atheists are by definition extremists (surely though irreligious or anti-religious). While atheists can certainly be extremist (see the former Communist regime in Russia and the still active suppression of the muslim religion in Xianjang in China) I think it fair to say that more of the current conflicts in the world derive from religious rather than atheist extremism. and that atheist terrorists and atheist extreme politicians have been relatively thin on the ground. Perhaps with the exception of one biggie - Donald F Trump, who I think worships no-one but himself.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Francis Albert]

10 hours ago, peter_hmfc said:

 

Interesting point on the "Media's Hypocrisy". FOX News and Trump always insist that other networks purposely ignore incidents that don't help their "narrative" (such as Islamic terrorist attacks) yet after the Squirrel Hill shooting a few days ago, CNN gave extensive coverage to it whilst FOX focused on Trump holding a rally in Illinois.

 

Hypocrisy by FOX surely?

FOX hypocritical? Hold the front page!

[Cade]

Donny trying to stop birthright citizenship.

"It was always told to me you need a constitutional amendment," 

"Guess what, you don't."  

"You can definitely do it with an act of congress, but now they're saying I can do it just with an executive order,"  

"Now how ridiculous, we're the only country in the world where a person comes in, has a baby, and the baby is essentially a citizen of the United States for 85 years with all of those benefits. It's ridiculous, it's ridiculous and it has to end."

 

4th Amendment of the US constitution says:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

 

So good luck with that latest mad plan, you racist old arsehole.

[doctor jambo]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

Donny trying to stop birthright citizenship.

"It was always told to me you need a constitutional amendment," 

"Guess what, you don't."  

"You can definitely do it with an act of congress, but now they're saying I can do it just with an executive order,"  

"Now how ridiculous, we're the only country in the world where a person comes in, has a baby, and the baby is essentially a citizen of the United States for 85 years with all of those benefits. It's ridiculous, it's ridiculous and it has to end."

 

4th Amendment of the US constitution says:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

 

So good luck with that latest mad plan, you racist old arsehole.

Not sure why the rage Cade

The essence of what he says is not unreasonable

That an illegal immigrant could , whilst in a country illegally, have a child in that country with another illegal immigrant,  bypass the immigration laws of that country .

You could hop off a boat 9 months gone, give birth and automatically get the right to stay?

Its hard on the illegals, for sure, but they have absolutely no right to be there.

You could turn the Mexican border towns into maternity units if that is what you want- any south americans at 9 months gestation going their holidays in the US and staying for good!

[Maple Leaf]

9 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Atheists are also religious extremists. 

 

That's a point that can be discussed, and there have been threads on JKB where such a discussion has taken place.

 

But this thread is about Donald Trump, and a case can be made that Trump's actions and speeches have encouraged religious extremism in the USA.

 

For example, according to the Anti-Defamation League, anti-Semitic incidents in the USA have increased by 57% since Trump was elected.  I would be willing to wager a fair amount that those incidents were committed by Christians or Muslims, and none were committed by atheists.  I would also wager a fair amount that the large majority of the perpetrators, especially the Christians, would be Trump supporters.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

4 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

No-one has said all religious people are extremist. You suggest atheists are by definition extremists (surely though irreligious or anti-religious). While atheists can certainly be extremist (see the former Communist regime in Russia and the still active suppression of the muslim religion in Xianjang in China) I think it fair to say that more of the current conflicts in the world derive from religious rather than atheist extremism. and that atheist terrorists and atheist extreme politicians have been relatively thin on the ground. Perhaps with the exception of one biggie - Donald F Trump, who I think worships no-one but himself.

 

I don't think I would call atheists in general religious extremists, and most whom I know are perfectly lovely people. But there are definitely some religious bigots among atheists -- anti-Muslim atheists seem to be all the rage right now.

 

In terms of people who commit terror in the name of atheism, folks always seem to forget about the Khmer Rouge and their attempt to violently eradicate religion from Cambodia. China during the Cultural Revolution was no picnic either.

 

Conflicts erupt over power -- always have. When religion (or the suppression their of) becomes complicit in repression, wars get fought in the name of religion. But I'm unaware of any conflict, including ones like the Crusades and the Inquisition, where religion was't tied up in a deeper political conflict.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

5 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

That's a point that can be discussed, and there have been threads on JKB where such a discussion has taken place.

 

But this thread is about Donald Trump, and a case can be made that Trump's actions and speeches have encouraged religious extremism in the USA.

 

For example, according to the Anti-Defamation League, anti-Semitic incidents in the USA have increased by 57% since Trump was elected.  I would be willing to wager a fair amount that those incidents were committed by Christians or Muslims, and none were committed by atheists.  I would also wager a fair amount that the large majority of the perpetrators, especially the Christians, would be Trump supporters.

 

This was before Trump, but it was a xenophobic, anti-religious attack. The perpetrator was aggressively anti-religious.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Chapel_Hill_shooting

 

I happen a lot of the details of this one because it happened very close to my home town. There may be more recent ones.

 

I don't know much about the Pittsburgh shooter but the online "alt-right" community that is currently churning out so much anti-Semitic stuff (often coded in the language of "anti-globalist" but pretty obviously about Jews) is not particularly Christian. Some of the biggest white nationalist groups, who remain virulently anti-Semitic, have quit Christianity and its wishy-washy love they neighbor message and sort of re-invented a kind of Odin worship. Others have adopted the trappings of Gaelic or Celtic symbology, but again, effectively invented a new racist religion from whole cloth.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

4 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Not sure why the rage Cade

The essence of what he says is not unreasonable

That an illegal immigrant could , whilst in a country illegally, have a child in that country with another illegal immigrant,  bypass the immigration laws of that country .

You could hop off a boat 9 months gone, give birth and automatically get the right to stay?

Its hard on the illegals, for sure, but they have absolutely no right to be there.

You could turn the Mexican border towns into maternity units if that is what you want- any south americans at 9 months gestation going their holidays in the US and staying for good!

 

It would be bad enough in the best of times, but the timing on this is absolutely horrific.

 

Birthright citizenship was enshrined in the 14th Amendment which ended slavery and granted full citizenship to people who were enslaved. It was also seen as a major point of safety for Jews fleeing the Holocaust, that if their children were born in America, they would be full citizens, even if their parents were immigrants.

 

In-migration rates remains at levels well below the huge influx in the late 19th and early 20th century. The US did okay in the period following that. We could take a few more.

[Francis Albert]

27 minutes ago, Ugly American said:

 

It would be bad enough in the best of times, but the timing on this is absolutely horrific.

 

Birthright citizenship was enshrined in the 14th Amendment which ended slavery and granted full citizenship to people who were enslaved. It was also seen as a major point of safety for Jews fleeing the Holocaust, that if their children were born in America, they would be full citizens, even if their parents were immigrants.

  

In-migration rates remains at levels well below the huge influx in the late 19th and early 20th century. The US did okay in the period following that. We could take a few more.

Since America, like most countries including the UK, operated a highly restrictive immigration policy in the years leading up to the Holocaust (by the time it got fully underway it was of course too late) the 14th Amendment did very little to help Jews trying to flee Nazi Germany. Tight restrictions on immigration to the USA were introduced in the 1920s, nearly a century before Trump, and have remained in place since under all administrations, none of which have shown much interest in "taking a few more".

Edited October 30, 2018 by Francis Albert

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, Ugly American said:

 

I don't think I would call atheists in general religious extremists, and most whom I know are perfectly lovely people. But there are definitely some religious bigots among atheists -- anti-Muslim atheists seem to be all the rage right now.

 

In terms of people who commit terror in the name of atheism, folks always seem to forget about the Khmer Rouge and their attempt to violently eradicate religion from Cambodia. China during the Cultural Revolution was no picnic either.

 

Conflicts erupt over power -- always have. When religion (or the suppression their of) becomes complicit in repression, wars get fought in the name of religion. But I'm unaware of any conflict, including ones like the Crusades and the Inquisition, where religion was't tied up in a deeper political conflict.

You're right, It's all about power, and fear protects that power. Whether that's thro God or anti God extremism. 

It's been going since man grow a conscious mind. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

David Ward a former ICE agent claimed on Fox News that some of the migrants in the so called 'caravan' have diseases such as Smallpox, Leprosy, TB etc etc.

 

Smallpox ffs wasn't that eradicated something like 30-40 years ago, yet Fox News in a statement later on air didn't repudiate or clarify the smallpox claim, in fact they didn't mention smallpox at all they only mentioned Leprosy & TB, so there will be folks who will believe that some in this 'caravan' will be infected with smallpox.

 

Both video's can be found in the link below.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-guest-claims-migrant-caravan-will-infect-americans-with-leprosy-host-issues-correction/

 

And we thought project fear was bad in the UK, at least we haven't been threatened with smallpox.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Jambo-Jimbo

[Watt-Zeefuik]

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Since America, like most countries including the UK, operated a highly restrictive immigration policy in the years leading up to the Holocaust (by the time it got fully underway it was of course too late) the 14th Amendment did very little to help Jews trying to flee Nazi Germany. Tight restrictions on immigration to the USA were introduced in the 1920s, nearly a century before Trump, and have remained in place since under all administrations, none of which have shown much interest in "taking a few more".

 

The contraction of immigration in the 1920s was one of many spasms of nativism in our history -- the period immediately before it featured some of the highest immigration rates in history, along with some of the most dramatic economic growth, during which the US changed from a relative backwater to an economic powerhouse. These spasms of nativism have always come when the character of immigrants changed -- Irish, Eastern and Southern Europeans, Jews, Chinese, and now Latin Americans. They've always been ugly -- the current one is unusual only in its severity, not in its character.

 

It is absolutely a shame on the Roosevelt administration and the Hoover and Harding administrations that came before it that immigration restrictions were so tight, and that Congress refused to raise the quotas, largely due to anti-Semitism. In the wake of the Holocaust (yes, I should have been more specific) immigration policy was loosened considerably, particularly with regards to refugees fleeing political violence and unrest. Immigration was loosened considerably, particularly with regards to refugees, during the 40s, 50s, 60s, and especially in 1980. Hence your last sentence is almost entirely inaccurate.

 

The passage of NAFTA in particular disrupted the Mexican economy and created a surge of migration headed northwards. In particular, this coincided with the adoption of the bizarre Green Card lottery system, which put the immigration system in to a ridiculously bureaucratic and often corrupt limbo. The dysfunctionality of the system, established under Reagan and wrestled over ever since, effectively created the demand for the entire underground system by which people now come into the country undocumented. It's in desperate need of reform and that is nothing new under Trump. What is new under Trump is his call to end the long-standing family exception, birthright citizenship (which he can't, he's just faking right now for the election), refugee allowances, and asylum seekers. All of those are measures, far more impactful than the insanely stupid but ultimately just wasteful border wall idea, that go far beyond what any administration or legislature has done, indeed, since the 1920s.

[Mark M]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

You're right, It's all about power, and fear protects that power. Whether that's thro God or anti God extremism. 

It's been going since man grow a conscious mind. 

 

Not all religions or ideologies help the power crazy or complement the psychos equally though. You'd be hard pressed to make a Jain or Baha'i or even Ahmadiya Muslim go Pol Pot on a country's ass.  Actual religions of peace.

[Maple Leaf]

56 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

David Ward a former ICE agent claimed on Fox News that some of the migrants in the so called 'caravan' have diseases such as Smallpox, Leprosy, TB etc etc.

 

Smallpox ffs wasn't that eradicated something like 30-40 years ago, yet Fox News in a statement later on air didn't repudiate or clarify the smallpox claim, in fact they didn't mention smallpox at all they only mentioned Leprosy & TB, so there will be folks who will believe that some in this 'caravan' will be infected with smallpox.

 

Both video's can be found in the link below.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-guest-claims-migrant-caravan-will-infect-americans-with-leprosy-host-issues-correction/

 

And we thought project fear was bad in the UK, at least we haven't been threatened with smallpox.

 

You're right about smallpox. It has been eradicated from the population and doesn't exist any more except in a couple of labs. 

 

 I'm surprised that Trump TV didn't throw in The Black Death as well.

[Mark M]

6 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

That's a point that can be discussed, and there have been threads on JKB where such a discussion has taken place.

 

But this thread is about Donald Trump, and a case can be made that Trump's actions and speeches have encouraged religious extremism in the USA.

 

For example, according to the Anti-Defamation League, anti-Semitic incidents in the USA have increased by 57% since Trump was elected.  I would be willing to wager a fair amount that those incidents were committed by Christians or Muslims, and none were committed by atheists.  I would also wager a fair amount that the large majority of the perpetrators, especially the Christians, would be Trump supporters.

 

A good microcausm of anti semitism can be found on college campuses. Plenty of athiests in this rogues gallery.  It details some bizarre bed fellows too.

 

https://canarymission.org

[Jambo-Jimbo]

29 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

You're right about smallpox. It has been eradicated from the population and doesn't exist any more except in a couple of labs. 

 

 I'm surprised that Trump TV didn't throw in The Black Death as well.

 

There's still time yet.

[Unknown user]

20 minutes ago, Mark M said:

 

A good microcausm of anti semitism can be found on college campuses. Plenty of athiests in this rogues gallery.  It details some bizarre bed fellows too.

 

https://canarymission.org

 

Microcosm doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

That aside, what a shitty source that is, unable or unwilling to distinguish between anti-semitism, anti-zionist and just disagreeing with things that Israel and/or israeli organisations do.

 

I checked three random people, this is an example;

 

Marina Hansen is a member of Jewish Voice Peace at Columbia University (Columbia) and Barnard College (JVP Columbia).

On November 18, 2015, Hansen co-authored an article with fellow Columbia student Max Fineman that attacked the pro-Israel group Aryeh for embracing IsraAid, an Israeli organization that provides global humanitarian aid.

In the article, Hansen and Fineman politicized IsraAids work and claimed that "there can be no such thing as an “apolitical" celebration of Israel" until the “Palestinian refugee crisis" — which they blamed solely on Israel— is solved. Hansen and Fineman also falsely accused Israel of denying humanitarian aid to Palestinians and charged Aryeh with “hypocrisy" for celebrating Israel’s assistance to Syrian refugees in Jordan and Europe.

The same day, Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP), Columbia (CSJP) members held a demonstration on campus, displaying posters that declared: "Celebrating Israel is celebrating Apartheid." The placards also misrepresented that that Israel was created in 1948 “through the expulsion of 750,000 Palestinians … and that Israel maintains itself today “through ethnic cleansing ...expulsion and Jewish only settlements."

Hansen is a sophomore at Columbia.

 

That's anti-semitic?

Please!

[Mark M]

38 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Microcosm doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

That aside, what a shitty source that is, unable or unwilling to distinguish between anti-semitism, anti-zionist and just disagreeing with things that Israel and/or israeli organisations do.

 

I checked three random people, this is an example;

 

 

 

 

That's anti-semitic?

Please!

 

It does, you're wrong. And look, an article using microcosm in the same way while highlighting the pernicious Zionist trope at the same time.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/apr/04/thecampusmenace

Edited October 30, 2018 by Mark M

[Unknown user]

11 minutes ago, Mark M said:

 

It does, you're wrong. And look, an article using microcosm in the same way while highlighting the pernicious Zionist trope at the same time.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/apr/04/thecampusmenace

No it doesn't, but that's not really the point anyway.

What a shitty source you offered up.

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, Ugly American said:

 

The contraction of immigration in the 1920s was one of many spasms of nativism in our history -- the period immediately before it featured some of the highest immigration rates in history, along with some of the most dramatic economic growth, during which the US changed from a relative backwater to an economic powerhouse. These spasms of nativism have always come when the character of immigrants changed -- Irish, Eastern and Southern Europeans, Jews, Chinese, and now Latin Americans. They've always been ugly -- the current one is unusual only in its severity, not in its character.

 

It is absolutely a shame on the Roosevelt administration and the Hoover and Harding administrations that came before it that immigration restrictions were so tight, and that Congress refused to raise the quotas, largely due to anti-Semitism. In the wake of the Holocaust (yes, I should have been more specific) immigration policy was loosened considerably, particularly with regards to refugees fleeing political violence and unrest. Immigration was loosened considerably, particularly with regards to refugees, during the 40s, 50s, 60s, and especially in 1980. Hence your last sentence is almost entirely inaccurate.

 

The passage of NAFTA in particular disrupted the Mexican economy and created a surge of migration headed northwards. In particular, this coincided with the adoption of the bizarre Green Card lottery system, which put the immigration system in to a ridiculously bureaucratic and often corrupt limbo. The dysfunctionality of the system, established under Reagan and wrestled over ever since, effectively created the demand for the entire underground system by which people now come into the country undocumented. It's in desperate need of reform and that is nothing new under Trump. What is new under Trump is his call to end the long-standing family exception, birthright citizenship (which he can't, he's just faking right now for the election), refugee allowances, and asylum seekers. All of those are measures, far more impactful than the insanely stupid but ultimately just wasteful border wall idea, that go far beyond what any administration or legislature has done, indeed, since the 1920s.

Thanks for acknowledging, albeit rather obliquely,  that your claim that Article 14 had any significant impact in giving comfort to Jews trying to flee Nazi Germany was plain wrong, given that the extremely tight controls imposed by in the 20s and 30s made it pretty irrelevant.

For my part I accept that I was wrong in suggesting later administrations did not welcome more immigrants - indeed the 80s and early 90s saw a return to mass immigration. The Clinton administration was the first to reverse that and impose tighter controls, though  not to the extent that applied in the 20s and 30s.

[ri Alban]

9 hours ago, Mark M said:

 

Not all religions or ideologies help the power crazy or complement the psychos equally though. You'd be hard pressed to make a Jain or Baha'i or even Ahmadiya Muslim go Pol Pot on a country's ass.  Actual religions of peace.

I thought the same thing about Buddhists. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

18 hours ago, Ugly American said:

 

I don't think I would call atheists in general religious extremists, and most whom I know are perfectly lovely people. But there are definitely some religious bigots among atheists -- anti-Muslim atheists seem to be all the rage right now.

 

In terms of people who commit terror in the name of atheism, folks always seem to forget about the Khmer Rouge and their attempt to violently eradicate religion from Cambodia. China during the Cultural Revolution was no picnic either.

 

Conflicts erupt over power -- always have. When religion (or the suppression their of) becomes complicit in repression, wars get fought in the name of religion. But I'm unaware of any conflict, including ones like the Crusades and the Inquisition, where religion was't tied up in a deeper political conflict.

Anti Muslim atheists? Bollocks. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

I thought the same thing about Buddhists. 

They're exactly the same as every other religion. 

 

[Unknown user]

16 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Anti Muslim atheists? Bollocks. 

I know a few of them, why's that so strange?

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

I know a few of them, why's that so strange?

 

My experience of atheists is they're anti all religions. The anti Muslims I'm aware of are almost certainly Christians (I don't know any Jews). 

[Unknown user]

13 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

My experience of atheists is they're anti all religions. The anti Muslims I'm aware of are almost certainly Christians (I don't know any Jews). 

As I say, I know a few, more than I'm comfortable with truth be told. 

Now it could be that these people are anti everything, but they're not talking about that, islam is the very public bogey man.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

As I say, I know a few, more than I'm comfortable with truth be told. 

Now it could be that these people are anti everything, but they're not talking about that, islam is the very public bogey man.

I don't disagree people see Islam as an enemy.

 

However, think it's a bit rich for a believer, from a country where it is very much frowned upon to be an atheist, making accusations about anti Muslim atheists. 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

I don't disagree people see Islam as an enemy.

 

However, think it's a bit rich for a believer, from a country where it is very much frowned upon to be an atheist, making accusations about anti Muslim atheists. 

 

That's between you and UA, I think it's perfectly reasonable to talk of anti-islam atheists myself, they clearly exist. 

[Bindy Badgy]

19 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

You're right about smallpox. It has been eradicated from the population and doesn't exist any more except in a couple of labs. 

 

 I'm surprised that Trump TV didn't throw in The Black Death as well.

 

The Black Death would have been somewhat believable as it still exists outside of labs.

 

https://www.livescience.com/40003-plague-still-afflicts-world.html

 

Quote

 

According to the new study, which tallied the reported cases of plague around the world between 2000 and 2009, more than 20,000 people became infected during that time. People contracted the disease via rodents, bad camel meat and sick herding dogs, the report said. Cases in Libya and Algeria re-emerged after decades of absence.

 

The biggest burden was in Africa: in Congo 10,581 people contracted plague, followed by Madagascar with 7,182 cases and Zambia with 1,309 cases.

 

"These events, although showing progress, suggest that plague will persist in rodent reservoirs mostly in African countries burdened by poverty and civil unrest, causing death when patients fail to receive prompt antimicrobial treatment," the authors wrote in their paper.

 

 

[Maple Leaf]

47 minutes ago, Stokesy said:

 

The Black Death would have been somewhat believable as it still exists outside of labs.

 

https://www.livescience.com/40003-plague-still-afflicts-world.html

 

 

 

Don't you be giving Fox news any ideas. 

[milky_26]

17 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Don't you be giving Fox news any ideas. 

i'm amazed they haven't claimed that they are all carrying the deadly dihyrdrogen monoxide 

[Mark M]

11 hours ago, ri Alban said:

I thought the same thing about Buddhists. 

 

Buddhism teaches compassion and seeing attachment and desire as the main problems but it doesn't teach unlimited pacifism . That said, WW2 Japan was largely Shinto influenced and Sri Lanka and Burma persecution of Tamil and Muslims  is collective punishment and persecution by brutal military Govts.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

20 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

i'm amazed they haven't claimed that they are all carrying the deadly dihyrdrogen monoxide 

 

I have it on good authority that thousands of them are carrying litres and litres of Hydroxic Acid which they plan to dump in the USA.

 

Quick tweet the POTUS and warn him of this impending doom, I'd do it myself but I'm not on twitter.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

19 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Thanks for acknowledging, albeit rather obliquely,  that your claim that Article 14 had any significant impact in giving comfort to Jews trying to flee Nazi Germany was plain wrong, given that the extremely tight controls imposed by in the 20s and 30s made it pretty irrelevant.

For my part I accept that I was wrong in suggesting later administrations did not welcome more immigrants - indeed the 80s and early 90s saw a return to mass immigration. The Clinton administration was the first to reverse that and impose tighter controls, though  not to the extent that applied in the 20s and 30s.

 

I stated my claim badly. I acknowledge that. I should have said "the wake of the Holocaust." That you misunderstood it was my fault.

 

The tightening of immigration rules happened first under Reagan and then again under GWB. But most of this was Congressional anyway, which means the President only has a limited amount of input.

 

Clinton expanded the guest worker program and clashed consistently with the post-1994 Gingrich/GOP-controlled House over it.

 

Some of the biggest stretches of immigration were in the 1970s, as the US accepted refugees from SE Asia in particular, because we made the mess there.

 

To a great degree we've made the mess in Central America and should accept more refugees from there, rather than further tightening controls.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

10 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Anti Muslim atheists? Bollocks. 

 

I could be mistaken, but I *think* Richard Dawkins is an atheist.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/richard-dawkins-allahu-akhbar-church-bells-criticism-religion-a8451141.html

 

Sam Harris might be one too.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/apr/03/sam-harris-muslim-animus

[Watt-Zeefuik]

22 hours ago, Mark M said:

 

A good microcausm of anti semitism can be found on college campuses. Plenty of athiests in this rogues gallery.  It details some bizarre bed fellows too.

 

https://canarymission.org

 

It's a funny thing -- most people realize that if one criticizes the actions of the government of the UK, it's not a religious attack on Anglican Protestantism. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

A Republican congressional candidate, Dr. Nick Stella of Illinois is warning people that a vote for his Democratic opponent could lead to a return of foreclosures, unemployment and economic recession, he includes a photo of a fairly rundown area to emphasize his point.

 

Only wee small problem is that the photo is of Jaywick Sands which is a small seaside village in Essex, UK, and the photo is several years old as well.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-46047494

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/31/uk/republican-outrages-uk-village-intl/index.html

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Jambo-Jimbo

[Unknown user]

42 minutes ago, Ugly American said:

 

It's a funny thing -- most people realize that if one criticizes the actions of the government of the UK, it's not a religious attack on Anglican Protestantism. 

Offering that site as a source displays either a real lack of good faith (score a point at all costs!), an inability to read and understand information, or that you've obtained a list of websites to cite from somewhere. 

It's not dissimilar to those who cited infowars in the lead up to the US election tbh, I'd be mortified if I'd offered that to back myself up. 

[Mark M]

3 hours ago, Smithee said:

Offering that site as a source displays either a real lack of good faith (score a point at all costs!), an inability to read and understand information, or that you've obtained a list of websites to cite from somewhere. 

It's not dissimilar to those who cited infowars in the lead up to the US election tbh, I'd be mortified if I'd offered that to back myself up. 

 

4 hours ago, Ugly American said:

 

It's a funny thing -- most people realize that if one criticizes the actions of the government of the UK, it's not a religious attack on Anglican Protestantism. 

 

You'd have a point if the Anglican story at all resembled that of the Jews.

 

And Smithee, every single source on that site details the campus hatred (profs and students alike) for a tiny, miraculous state that happens to be the only place in the Middle East that doesn't treat women and gays like farm animals. Clearly there's no institutionalised leftist anti semitism in higher education though as they are equally vocal about far bigger occupations like Tibet or the monstrosity of another post WW2 creation called Pakistan. Oh wait, they're not. 

 

And I seriously doubt you're capable of feeling mortified.

[niblick1874]

 

 

 

 

 

I can post dozens of clips from those telling everyone that Trump makes Hitler look good when it comes to his immigration policies while also having said the same thing as Trump is saying now. Snake oil salesmen that have murdered millions. Have you figured it out? Europe didn't. America has.

 

UA, You want to post more?

 

While I am at it, Trump can go **** himself if he doesn't shape up. He left the shit bits in place when it comes to NAFTA. Strike two.

 

  

[Unknown user]

20 minutes ago, Mark M said:

 

 

You'd have a point if the Anglican story at all resembled that of the Jews.

 

And Smithee, every single source on that site details the campus hatred (profs and students alike) for a tiny, miraculous state that happens to be the only place in the Middle East that doesn't treat women and gays like farm animals. Clearly there's no institutionalised leftist anti semitism in higher education though as they are equally vocal about far bigger occupations like Tibet or the monstrosity of another post WW2 creation called Pakistan. Oh wait, they're not. 

 

And I seriously doubt you're capable of feeling mortified.

 

Yeah yeah, divert divert divert. That website is a piece of shit and if you can't see or acknowledge the obvious flaws you're just not worth taking seriously.

 

By the way "I seriously doubt you're capable of feeling mortified"

Wtf man, surely you can ad hominem better than that! I've been kicked harder by a caterpillar - 4/10 and that's me being generous

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, Mark M said:

 

 

You'd have a point if the Anglican story at all resembled that of the Jews.

 

And Smithee, every single source on that site details the campus hatred (profs and students alike) for a tiny, miraculous state that happens to be the only place in the Middle East that doesn't treat women and gays like farm animals. Clearly there's no institutionalised leftist anti semitism in higher education though as they are equally vocal about far bigger occupations like Tibet or the monstrosity of another post WW2 creation called Pakistan. Oh wait, they're not. 

 

And I seriously doubt you're capable of feeling mortified.

 

See, here's the funny thing. I'm a graduate student on an American campus. (Right now I'm working on my dissertation so I'm only there once a month or so, but I'll be teaching again next term.) Before that, I've been a grad student on a different campus, and in between I've done IT work on a campus.

 

This whole thing about rampant anti-Semitism on American campuses? It's garbage. It's totally made up.

 

Or rather, it's real, but you're accusing the wrong people.

 

You want to know what campus anti-Semitism looks like? We're scarcely a year after these people paraded past the building where I teach shouting, "JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US," beat several people, killed one and injured other in a deliberate vehicular homicide, and otherwise left threatening anti-Semitic messages all around town.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/14/scenes-from-charlottesvilles-violent-unite-the-right-rally.html

 

And they LOVE Trump. And in return, he calls them "fine people."

 

Those are the people that my Jewish friends who live in Charlottesville are afraid of. Not a bunch of campus BDS folks.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

13 hours ago, Ugly American said:

 

I could be mistaken, but I *think* Richard Dawkins is an atheist.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/richard-dawkins-allahu-akhbar-church-bells-criticism-religion-a8451141.html

 

Sam Harris might be one too.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/apr/03/sam-harris-muslim-animus

Like I say, they don't just single out Islam. 

[Sidelight]

A new study by the Louis D. Brandeis Centre for Human Rights Under Law and Trinity College shows that American colleges and universities are not ivory towers of tolerance regarding Jews, but hotspots of anti-Semitism where 54 percent of all students report that they have either experienced or witnessed an anti-Semitic incident during the past year. A comparable survey of UK Jewish college students actually showed slightly lower levels of anti-Semitic incidents. According to the U.S. survey, Jews ages 18-29 are more than five times as likely to be called offensive names as are Jews over 65 years of age. The vast majority of anti-Jewish behaviour comes from fellow students; only 3 percent of Jewish students attribute their exposure to anti-Semitism to administrators, and 6 percent to faculty.

The full report by DR. Harold Brackman - published by the SWC is linked below.

http://www.wiesenthal.com/atf/cf/%7B54d385e6-f1b9-4e9f-8e94-890c3e6dd277%7D/ANTI-SEMITISM_ON_CAMPUS-A_CLEAR_AND_PRESENT_DANGER-6-12-2015.PDF

 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, alfajambo said:

A new study by the Louis D. Brandeis Centre for Human Rights Under Law and Trinity College shows that American colleges and universities are not ivory towers of tolerance regarding Jews, but hotspots of anti-Semitism where 54 percent of all students report that they have either experienced or witnessed an anti-Semitic incident during the past year. A comparable survey of UK Jewish college students actually showed slightly lower levels of anti-Semitic incidents. According to the U.S. survey, Jews ages 18-29 are more than five times as likely to be called offensive names as are Jews over 65 years of age. The vast majority of anti-Jewish behaviour comes from fellow students; only 3 percent of Jewish students attribute their exposure to anti-Semitism to administrators, and 6 percent to faculty.

 

The full report by DR. Harold Brackman - published by the SWC is linked below.

 

http://www.wiesenthal.com/atf/cf/%7B54d385e6-f1b9-4e9f-8e94-890c3e6dd277%7D/ANTI-SEMITISM_ON_CAMPUS-A_CLEAR_AND_PRESENT_DANGER-6-12-2015.PDF

 

 

 

Anti semitism exists, this is a fact. But...

 

That link is another opinion piece with a glossy presentation and a few examples of anti semitism and simply doesn't show rampant anti semitism on campus. 

 

The author, Brackman, has been busted cobbling together sentences from different parts of a book (The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews Vol 1) to put together a quote that suited his needs. He even admitted to it. He's not credible. He'll manipulate and misrepresent to suit his message. 

 

Brackman has claimed that Jewish involvement in the US slave trade was negligible, despite the rest of the Jewish world acknowledging that southern jews were almost unanimous in their support for and use of slavery, just like a lot of other groups, and that a fairly insignificant percentage of northern jews were abolishonists.

He actually acknowledged this years later too - "Jews were about twice as likely to be slave owners as the average white Southerner."

He's not credible. He'll lie to suit his message. 

 

 

In short, the guy's a busted flush, the type of kiddy on academic that Fox love and turn to. 

 

Now I'm not anti-jew. If someone were to put forward a decent, genuinely academic, source with checkable facts and figures I'd be much more inclined to listen, but putting this type of thing forward actually hurts your argument rather then backing you up.

 

Intolerance is on the rise, it's bad and we need to fix it, and it's fuelled by a number if things, including misinformation masquerading as academia.

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

Anti semitism exists, this is a fact. But...

 

That link is another opinion piece with a glossy presentation and a few examples of anti semitism and simply doesn't show rampant anti semitism on campus. 

 

The author, Brackman, has been busted cobbling together sentences from different parts of a book (The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews Vol 1) to put together a quote that suited his needs. He even admitted to it. He's not credible. He'll manipulate and misrepresent to suit his message. 

 

Brackman has claimed that Jewish involvement in the US slave trade was negligible, despite the rest of the Jewish world acknowledging that southern jews were almost unanimous in their support for and use of slavery, just like a lot of other groups, and that a fairly insignificant percentage of northern jews were abolishonists.

He actually acknowledged this years later too - "Jews were about twice as likely to be slave owners as the average white Southerner."

He's not credible. He'll lie to suit his message. 

 

 

In short, the guy's a busted flush, the type of kiddy on academic that Fox love and turn to. 

 

Now I'm not anti-jew. If someone were to put forward a decent, genuinely academic, source with checkable facts and figures I'd be much more inclined to listen, but putting this type of thing forward actually hurts your argument rather then backing you up.

 

Intolerance is on the rise, it's bad and we need to fix it, and it's fuelled by a number if things, including misinformation masquerading as academia.

 

And including a President who said that there were good people on both sides in Charlottesville.  That statement was sweet music in the ears of the white supremacists.