Class of 75 Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 26 minutes ago, JamboX2 said: Think Boris was trying to avoid me getting my fingers burnt again. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 38 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: It's equally arguable that they might not have much wealth or skills. I agree slightly with the long game. I do believe, and it's only my opinion, that independence is inevitable as time passes, just feel all the movement since 1999 is in that direction, and as you say, people of my generation and below tend to be very pro independence. The momentum is very likely in that direction but people need to be patient. If independence happens at some point, a very important part of the process is to get the losing side on board with the new state and get their weight behind it. A narrow win will mean anger and bitter division. I think you're a very good, fair minded and balanced poster, but many people on both sides are not, symptomatic of the modern Social Media era World of opposite sides of an argument showing total contempt for one another, a la Brexit v anti Brexit down here, Trumpers v Anti Trumpers in America with a rapidly shrinking moderate middle ground. We seem to live in a binary World these days and it's far from limited to the Independence Issue. You're spot on about it not being a land of milk and honey. The early transitional years would probably be tough with tax increases and spending cuts needed to balance the books, and the likely launching of a new currency. But that it could be done I'm not in doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 hour ago, SwindonJambo said: The momentum is very likely in that direction but people need to be patient. If independence happens at some point, a very important part of the process is to get the losing side on board with the new state and get their weight behind it. A narrow win will mean anger and bitter division. I think you're a very good, fair minded and balanced poster, but many people on both sides are not, symptomatic of the modern Social Media era World of opposite sides of an argument showing total contempt for one another, a la Brexit v anti Brexit down here, Trumpers v Anti Trumpers in America with a rapidly shrinking moderate middle ground. We seem to live in a binary World these days and it's far from limited to the Independence Issue. You're spot on about it not being a land of milk and honey. The early transitional years would probably be tough with tax increases and spending cuts needed to balance the books, and the likely launching of a new currency. But that it could be done I'm not in doubt. I agree, I'd feel very uncomfortable with a narrow victory, especially something along the same margin as the Brexit result but would I go as far as including a 60% minimum type rule for it to carry, I'd need to think harder. Steven Pinker was on QT last night and covered something that I found interesting. I'm paraphrasing heavily so it might not be perfect, but essentially he said there are generally two ways people tend to deal with issues or things going wrong. The first is essentially recognising that the world is complex, that our lack of knowledge on a lot of things, will inevitably lead to mistakes and problems, but the people involved in making the decisions aren't acting out of badness, they are doing what they think is right but many issues are complex and mistakes will happen, we need to learn and improve. The second is viewing the world as good guys versus bad guys. The good guys assume that when things go wrong, it's because of intentional decisions by the bad guys, they know what they are doing but they don't care etc. The good guys feel they need to defeat the bad guys to prevail. And a big problem is all sides tend to think they are the good guys. He essentially argued for whatever reason, the world seems to be viewing everything through the good/bad guy perspective and that's part of why everything feels so polarised. I completely agree. I think it will be people like my nephew (he's almost 3) who'll really appreciate the benefits of being independent. Folk like me will need to go through some struggle at first, but ultimately, in my opinion, it will be worth it (I've used this analogy before, independence is like leaving your parents for the first time, you suddenly find you need to worry about money a lot more, things are more expensive than you realised, it'll take time to get properly on your own two feet, but you get to make decisions you never did before, you decide on the house rules, and eventually things get easier. And ultimately, you'd be very unlikely to ever choose to go back despite the initial harship). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Custard Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 7 hours ago, Who_put_the_ball_in... said: I can’t wait to see wee nippys face after she loses indyref 2 Or 3. Or 4. Or 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class of 75 Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 4 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said: I understand why you'd be annoyed. I agree it's disrespectful to burn any countries flag, regardless of feelings towards that country because the flag is a symbol, usually, of the entire country which will include a whole range of people you agree or disagree with. But with that said, I still fundamentally disagree with you bringing Hearts into this discussion. Cool, glad you agree. The assets wouldn't be insignificant either. I'm not a Scotland should independent for a land of milk and honey type BTW so I appreciate there would need to be serious conversations about not only the debt acquired from the UK, but also the current deficit we run, which will involve changes to tax or decrease of services as simple measures, but opportunities for increasing trade etc will be possible too. My position is simply none of this is insurmountable and I believe Scotland should be the decision maker in how we manage those finances, and all other matters. I try to take arguments as they come, but I don't always succeed. I appreciate that we both are very unlikely to change our opinions on independence as both our views I think are based on political outlooks rather than economics ? No worries mate ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 10 hours ago, Class of 75 said: They are one and the same. The 2 world wars involved the Empire which us Scots did quite well out of. Not really. It wasn't the old empire which was a different thing when we were conquering and murdering. I prefer each nation in this dysfunctional Union to fly their own flag instead of the UF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 No thanks,mostly because of the complete lack of a sustainable plan for our future and partly because of the "independence at any cost brigade".Only my opinion mind, before the NATzi's jump all over me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, stevie said: No thanks,mostly because of the complete lack of a sustainable plan for our future and partly because of the "independence at any cost brigade".Only my opinion mind, before the NATzi's jump all over me! 1st sentence - aye fair enough, I can understand that. No qualms. Bolded word - ah you're a bit of a knob. Cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: 1st sentence - aye fair enough, I can understand that. No qualms. Bolded word - ah you're a bit of a knob. Cool. Point proven,many thanks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Just now, stevie said: Point proven,many thanks? Aye sound. Call folk an alternative version of Nazis because you disagree with them. You're a top lad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Alternative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, stevie said: Alternative? Tell you what, why don't you explain the term NATzi to me Stevie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 15 minutes ago, stevie said: No thanks,mostly because of the complete lack of a sustainable plan for our future and partly because of the "independence at any cost brigade".Only my opinion mind, before the NATzi's jump all over me! Dearie, dearie me. We need independence to escape this type of attitude. What plans do Westminster have apart from destruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 51 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: Tell you what, why don't you explain the term NATzi to me Stevie? National facist,fanatical fantacists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Independence at any cost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 10 minutes ago, stevie said: National facist,fanatical fantacists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 2 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said: Actually worse than any dafty Indy supporter. Mind blowing. How is it that Scotland is utterly incapable of anything? What is it they see that’s inherently wrong with us? With them ffs?! A useless country, worth absolutely nothing unless under England’s apron and anyone that doesn’t see things that way is a facist and a fantasist. A sad state of affairs tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Tax increases - spending cuts - new currency - hud me back where do I sign Don’t be stupid be a smarty Come and join the Natsy Party Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 32 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said: Tax increases - spending cuts - new currency - hud me back where do I sign Don’t be stupid be a smarty Come and join the Natsy Party So you joined Nigel's party after voting leave, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 9 hours ago, jack D and coke said: Actually worse than any dafty Indy supporter. Mind blowing. How is it that Scotland is utterly incapable of anything? What is it they see that’s inherently wrong with us? With them ffs?! A useless country, worth absolutely nothing unless under England’s apron and anyone that doesn’t see things that way is a facist and a fantasist. A sad state of affairs tbh. They are probably intentionally trolling. I mean the alternative is they use terms likes NATzi and Krankie on a serious basis, and if so, ****ing hell, we're dealing with IQs close to single digits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 On 31/05/2019 at 09:43, Class of 75 said: Yes but your comments work both ways. If someone is disrespectful of my flag I have every right to comment. Can you imagine a proud US citizen not getting angry when their flag is burned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 3 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said: They are probably intentionally trolling. I mean the alternative is they use terms likes NATzi and Krankie on a serious basis, and if so, ****ing hell, we're dealing with IQs close to single digits. It not just that, they surmise that Scotland are scrounging from WM and independence supporters are scroungers. When in fact, if this was true, then it would be Unionists who are actually scroungers. Anyway, Co75 talking about the onion John has reminded me I need to purchase bogroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 16 hours ago, stevie said: National facist,fanatical fantacists. Like Labour, Tory and Libs? Farage, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Corbyn, Swinson etc? A bigger bunch of britnat fools, goons and idiots you'll ever meet. Those who follow are suspect in their mental capacities. I'll take my chances with the people living and working in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 20 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said: Like Labour, Tory and Libs? Farage, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Corbyn, Swinson etc? A bigger bunch of britnat fools, goons and idiots you'll ever meet. Those who follow are suspect in their mental capacities. I'll take my chances with the people living and working in Scotland. Its replies like yours which ultimately show why you will never win an Independence Referendum. Petty name calling and personal abuse plus a bunch of racist fanatics always sell your cause short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 2 hours ago, frankblack said: Its replies like yours which ultimately show why you will never win an Independence Referendum. Petty name calling and personal abuse plus a bunch of racist fanatics always sell your cause short. Aye, as if it would change your mind. I don't want these people any where near governing Scotland. Petty name calling like Krankie and nippy? I'm not racist also can't stand Kelly, Davidson, Carlaw, Rennie etc. Subservient crawlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said: Aye, as if it would change your mind. I don't want these people any where near governing Scotland. Petty name calling like Krankie and nippy? I'm not racist also can't stand Kelly, Davidson, Carlaw, Rennie etc. Subservient crawlers. I'm not calling you a racist, just pointing out that a fair number of English hating bigots follow the SNP. Just pointing out that this Britnat pish you and your paranoid chums keep spouting is as embarrassing as others posted above. You won't be taken seriously continually playing the grievance card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, frankblack said: You won't be taken seriously continually playing the grievance card. I've never really understood the grievance angle. When Davidson bangs on about opposing referenda, that's a grievance to her isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, frankblack said: I'm not calling you a racist, just pointing out that a fair number of English hating bigots follow the SNP. Just pointing out that this Britnat pish you and your paranoid chums keep spouting is as embarrassing as others posted above. You won't be taken seriously continually playing the grievance card. I wouldn't say paranoid but there's plenty of proof out there that certain parts of the establishment do Scotland a disservice. I don't play the grievance card as I try to view things without tartan tinted glasses. There are bigots on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, frankblack said: I'm not calling you a racist, just pointing out that a fair number of English hating bigots follow the SNP. Just pointing out that this Britnat pish you and your paranoid chums keep spouting is as embarrassing as others posted above. You won't be taken seriously continually playing the grievance card. English isn't a race. And you are British Nationalists. No voting Brexiteering proves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, ri Alban said: English isn't a race. And you are British Nationalists. No voting Brexiteering proves it. I am Scottish and proud. I just think the SNP are not trustworthy and would ruin our country. As for your argument about race, I think if you used that defense in court you'd be in some bother. Edited June 1, 2019 by frankblack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Custard Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 hour ago, frankblack said: You won't be taken seriously continually playing the grievance card. The National should be renamed The Grievance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 2 hours ago, frankblack said: I'm not calling you a racist, just pointing out that a fair number of English hating bigots follow the SNP. Just pointing out that this Britnat pish you and your paranoid chums keep spouting is as embarrassing as others posted above. You won't be taken seriously continually playing the grievance card. Are you able to produce any evidence of English hating bigots that follow the snp? Can you explain and give examples of this grievance card you keep mentioning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 8 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said: They are probably intentionally trolling. I mean the alternative is they use terms likes NATzi and Krankie on a serious basis, and if so, ****ing hell, we're dealing with IQs close to single digits. Sadly, i think very few are trolling. They have almost got me convinced. If they are truly representative of our country then perhaps we have no business trying to create our own destiny. Far better to let our superiors do it for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 12 hours ago, coconut doug said: Are you able to produce any evidence of English hating bigots that follow the snp? Here are just a few: https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-independence/edinburgh-indyref2-campaigner-says-sinn-fein-inspired-england-get-out-banner-was-not-racist-1-4917094/amp https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11079296/Anti-English-racists-terrorising-the-No-campaign-in-Scotland.html Then there is the JK Rowling situation with nationalist bigots bombarding her with personal abuse. While not racist, the same thing happened to Neil Oliver for expressing his opinions on Independence. Even on here, an familiar antipodean poster wanted ethnic cleansing of the English to wipe out the No voters. 12 hours ago, coconut doug said: Can you explain and give examples of this grievance card you keep mentioning? It is in every speech they make blaming Westminster for everything and anything. Its time they took responsibility for their own actions or inaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 3 hours ago, frankblack said: Here are just a few: https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-independence/edinburgh-indyref2-campaigner-says-sinn-fein-inspired-england-get-out-banner-was-not-racist-1-4917094/amp https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11079296/Anti-English-racists-terrorising-the-No-campaign-in-Scotland.html Then there is the JK Rowling situation with nationalist bigots bombarding her with personal abuse. While not racist, the same thing happened to Neil Oliver for expressing his opinions on Independence. Even on here, an familiar antipodean poster wanted ethnic cleansing of the English to wipe out the No voters. It is in every speech they make blaming Westminster for everything and anything. Its time they took responsibility for their own actions or inaction. I accept both governments make mistakes. It's difficult trying to listen to Davidson and her ilk blaming the SNP when she knows full well it's her party that is at fault. Scotland is being bled dry of its resources. Why can't we be given energy, economics etc and let us create our own plans instead of waiting for next mess to come along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 5 hours ago, frankblack said: Here are just a few: https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-independence/edinburgh-indyref2-campaigner-says-sinn-fein-inspired-england-get-out-banner-was-not-racist-1-4917094/amp https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11079296/Anti-English-racists-terrorising-the-No-campaign-in-Scotland.html Then there is the JK Rowling situation with nationalist bigots bombarding her with personal abuse. While not racist, the same thing happened to Neil Oliver for expressing his opinions on Independence. Even on here, an familiar antipodean poster wanted ethnic cleansing of the English to wipe out the No voters. It is in every speech they make blaming Westminster for everything and anything. Its time they took responsibility for their own actions or inaction. The English? They didn't betray Scotland, why would anyone want what you alleged. Oh and if I said anything like that, even in jest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 20 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said: I wouldn't say paranoid but there's plenty of proof out there that certain parts of the establishment do Scotland a disservice. I don't play the grievance card as I try to view things without tartan tinted glasses. There are bigots on both sides. Stop engaging frankie the liar mate. You’ll feel better?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said: I accept both governments make mistakes. It's difficult trying to listen to Davidson and her ilk blaming the SNP when she knows full well it's her party that is at fault. Scotland is being bled dry of its resources. Why can't we be given energy, economics etc and let us create our own plans instead of waiting for next mess to come along? That all sounds a bit whatabootery. That is precisely what I was getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 1 minute ago, jack D and coke said: Stop engaging frankie the liar mate. You’ll feel better?? Seem to have hit a raw nerve here. What a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, frankblack said: Seem to have hit a raw nerve here. What a shame. Jack just telling the truth, but you wouldn't know what that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 5 hours ago, frankblack said: Here are just a few: https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-independence/edinburgh-indyref2-campaigner-says-sinn-fein-inspired-england-get-out-banner-was-not-racist-1-4917094/amp https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11079296/Anti-English-racists-terrorising-the-No-campaign-in-Scotland.html Then there is the JK Rowling situation with nationalist bigots bombarding her with personal abuse. While not racist, the same thing happened to Neil Oliver for expressing his opinions on Independence. Even on here, an familiar antipodean poster wanted ethnic cleansing of the English to wipe out the No voters. It is in every speech they make blaming Westminster for everything and anything. Its time they took responsibility for their own actions or inaction. This is very revealing Frank and shows how you and others are manipulated by the media. Your claim was that there are a fair number of English hating bigots that follow the SNP cannot be substantiated using the links you provide. In fact the two individuals have absolutely nothing to do with the SNP. The fact that you think that they have should demonstrate to you just how much your thinking has been distorted by the media. Both articles are very poorly written with a clear agenda of characterising all Indy supporters in a very negative way and I’m afraid you’ve fallen victim to their propaganda. The JK Rowling accusation is interesting too. I remember that she was corresponding in the friendliest of ways with possibly the most misogynistic and threatening Unionist poster. You might remember Brian Spanner. In any case you offered no evidence that anybody that follows the SNP abused her. As for the antipodean poster, I was not aware that he advocated ethnic cleansing unless that meant disenfranchising them in any future vote though I would accept and have done so before that many of his posts were anti-English. I often wondered if he was trolling as I couldn’t take some of his posts seriously, maybe that was the point. I wonder what he is doing now, perhaps he could tell us if he really meant all these things he said? Don’t you find it strange that the SNP has a group called English for yes and that so many English people have posted on social media over the years to say that they have changed their minds and that they have been welcomed into the SNP. I don’t think you have done well her to find two people with the most extreme views and try to attach them to the SNP when clearly there is no link. As for your notion of grievance, again you provide no examples, perhaps you think you don’t need to as it is a statement often repeated on here but rarely substantiated. What i see is that levels of funding have decreased across all of the UK due to austerity budgets and those of us with different perspectives are entitled to challenge or complain about it. Generally though the SNP are boasting about their achievements in Health, Education, Infrastructure improvements and others, and reminding people that if they had full control they could do much better. That’s not grievance, it is a belief that an increasing number of Scots hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, frankblack said: That all sounds a bit whatabootery. That is precisely what I was getting at. That's not whatabootery, that's only hearing and seeing what you and I mean you fb, want to believe. I don't see any grievance, I see Scots as wanting something different and we are being denied it as usual by an obstructive Westminster and their lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, coconut doug said: This is very revealing Frank and shows how you and others are manipulated by the media. Your claim was that there are a fair number of English hating bigots that follow the SNP cannot be substantiated using the links you provide. In fact the two individuals have absolutely nothing to do with the SNP. The fact that you think that they have should demonstrate to you just how much your thinking has been distorted by the media. Both articles are very poorly written with a clear agenda of characterising all Indy supporters in a very negative way and I’m afraid you’ve fallen victim to their propaganda. The JK Rowling accusation is interesting too. I remember that she was corresponding in the friendliest of ways with possibly the most misogynistic and threatening Unionist poster. You might remember Brian Spanner. In any case you offered no evidence that anybody that follows the SNP abused her. As for the antipodean poster, I was not aware that he advocated ethnic cleansing unless that meant disenfranchising them in any future vote though I would accept and have done so before that many of his posts were anti-English. I often wondered if he was trolling as I couldn’t take some of his posts seriously, maybe that was the point. I wonder what he is doing now, perhaps he could tell us if he really meant all these things he said? Don’t you find it strange that the SNP has a group called English for yes and that so many English people have posted on social media over the years to say that they have changed their minds and that they have been welcomed into the SNP. I don’t think you have done well her to find two people with the most extreme views and try to attach them to the SNP when clearly there is no link. As for your notion of grievance, again you provide no examples, perhaps you think you don’t need to as it is a statement often repeated on here but rarely substantiated. What i see is that levels of funding have decreased across all of the UK due to austerity budgets and those of us with different perspectives are entitled to challenge or complain about it. Generally though the SNP are boasting about their achievements in Health, Education, Infrastructure improvements and others, and reminding people that if they had full control they could do much better. That’s not grievance, it is a belief that an increasing number of Scots hold. TL;DR Try paragraphs. Btw - I referred to SNP supporters not the politicians. I gave you some links and if you don't want to accept them I don't really care. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said: That's not whatabootery, that's only hearing and seeing what you and I mean you fb, want to believe. I don't see any grievance, I see Scots as wanting something different and we are being denied it as usual by an obstructive Westminster and their lot. Scotland isn't being obstructed - it voted to remain in the UK a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 1 minute ago, frankblack said: Scotland isn't being obstructed - it voted to remain in the UK a few years ago. I didn't stop Theresa May trying to get her Brexit Bill passed more than once. Mistakes can be made and rectified that's what should happen in a Modern Democracy rather than being dictated to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 Both sides have arseholes, no side is any worse than the other. The common theme is humans, not nationalist or unionist. Literally every cause in the world, even the most noble, has some followers who are arseholes and hate other people, again, that's just humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 25 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: Both sides have arseholes, no side is any worse than the other. The common theme is humans, not nationalist or unionist. Literally every cause in the world, even the most noble, has some followers who are arseholes and hate other people, again, that's just humans. I would agree with that. The sad thing is that when we get to the next Holyrood elections, it is going to be a bitter partizan fight with the arseholes on both sides out in force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, frankblack said: I would agree with that. The sad thing is that when we get to the next Holyrood elections, it is going to be a bitter partizan fight with the arseholes on both sides out in force. They always shout the loudest which is what leads to the idea that there a lot of them when I don't really think that's the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 28 minutes ago, frankblack said: Scotland isn't being obstructed - it voted to remain in the UK a few years ago. It's just a matter of time until that's put right. As I said years ago, the SNP were rushed into 2014. But now, when Scotland will have all the facts of being part of the UK (come Halloween), The Tories think they can stop democracy, yet it's ok for the Tories to chop and change their minds every couple of years, but Scotland, naw, 1 time and then it's lockdown. What's Scotland worth to the UK, Frank, Really. It's all down to rUK's defences, innit. Scotland's true reach which you don't see on the telly. Right up past Shetland, which itself is about 50 miles long. What do you think Frank? There must be some reason, rUK want to keep a hold of this shitie wee sponging nation, fulla alkies, scroungers and benefit cheats. Cause as we're told, the oil has run oot, it'll stop raining, but we'll not have any sun, oh and the wind, well... That doesnae want to push round our windmills if we want full democracy. So Frank, what is it? What is it that they need, except cannon fodder. As for equating hating WM rule as hating the English, that's up to you. I think everyone should be allowed to vote, but if it's good enough to help swing leave, it should NOT (Underlined) be seen as any sort of different, if I suggest likewise. After all, the EU citizens won't be voting in Indyref2, most likely. Anyway, enjoy yourself. I know I will, very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ri Alban said: It's just a matter of time until that's put right. As I said years ago, the SNP were rushed into 2014. But now, when Scotland will have all the facts of being part of the UK (come Halloween), The Tories think they can stop democracy, yet it's ok for the Tories to chop and change their minds every couple of years, but Scotland, naw, 1 time and then it's lockdown. The UK government has a mandate from the people, reinforced by the Indy referendum. Quote What's Scotland worth to the UK, Frank, Really. It's all down to rUK's defences, innit. Scotland's true reach which you don't see on the telly. Right up past Shetland, which itself is about 50 miles long. What do you think Frank? Shetland isn't particularly happy with the way Holyrood governs it, much like you complain about Westminster governing Scotland. Population wise our population thins out in the areas you mention - I don't get what point you are making? Quote There must be some reason, rUK want to keep a hold of this shitie wee sponging nation, fulla alkies, scroungers and benefit cheats. Cause as we're told, the oil has run oot, it'll stop raining, but we'll not have any sun, oh and the wind, well... That doesnae want to push round our windmills if we want full democracy. So Frank, what is it? What is it that they need, except cannon fodder. As I said above we wanted to remain part of the UK, not the other way about. Quote As for equating hating WM rule as hating the English, that's up to you. I think everyone should be allowed to vote, but if it's good enough to help swing leave, it should NOT (Underlined) be seen as any sort of different, if I suggest likewise. After all, the EU citizens won't be voting in Indyref2, most likely. Anyway, enjoy yourself. I know I will, very soon. The election system is set out in advance. It is what it is and would need a vote to change it. Edited June 2, 2019 by frankblack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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