Craig Levein: A Psychological Explanation

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

You joined this forum in late 2017. In one of your very first posts to me, you randomly mentioned Norwich and hibs.net. Subsequent posts of yours have employed all sorts of labels and attacks used against me by others many years ago. 

 

For someone who supposedly only joined late last year, you have an impossible level of knowledge of my past, which can only be explained by you having actually been on here for many many many years.

 

Your attacks on me for being an overseas fan are - hint hint - particularly ironic. 

 

Overseas? Like Chad for example?

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, Bez said:

 

Overseas? Like Chad for example?

 

You might say that. I couldn't possibly comment.  

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

Just now, shaun.lawson said:

 

You joined this forum in late 2017. In one of your very first posts to me, you randomly mentioned Norwich and hibs.net. Subsequent posts of yours have employed all sorts of labels and attacks used against me by others many years ago. 

 

For someone who supposedly only joined late last year, you have an impossible level of knowledge of my past, which can only be explained by you having actually been on here for many many many years.

 

Your attacks on me for being an overseas fan are - hint hint - particularly ironic. 

 

I don't believe I have ever mentioned Norwich. Numerous people have mentioned you like to post on hibs.Net. 

 

I have seen a number of questions put to you about stuff you made up in the past. You seem to avoid answering said questions. You can believe its just me that thinks you're a fantasist if you want. It's not. 

 

I am overseas? You're deluded. Seek help. 

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Bez said:

 

Overseas? Like Chad for example?

Chad the country or a person named Chad?

[jambovambo]

1 minute ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

I started a thread on a football forum. Shame on me. And then, when others demanded information about my past Spanish Inquistion-style, I was slagged off for initially not answering them, because I hate it when threads become about me.

 

It's not me who turns them into that. It's others. 

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Frank1874 said:

Chad the country or a person named Chad?

 

Jesus man! Subtlety not your strong point, eh?

[Haken]

30 minutes ago, Frank1874 said:

 

What does your post mean?

I wonder why someone who is not a 'traditional' supporter would go to the bother of posting about their chosen team on two forums.  Attention, perhaps?

[Rudy T]

8 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Nope. Clearly indicating I would expect him to have not allowed this nonsense to have happened in the first place. Otherwise, what was the point of him and the coaches? 

 

Not to have allowed it by doing what???

[Victorian]

Other markets available upon request.

 

6/4  Successful unmasking.

[jambovambo]

2 minutes ago, Frank1874 said:

Chad the country or a person named Chad?

 

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, jambovambo said:

Not something I ever thought I would read

 

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Bez said:

 

Jesus man! Subtlety not your strong point, eh?

???

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

 

I don't believe I have ever mentioned Norwich.

 

Liar.

 

You posted that within days of my return here. I haven't posted on hibs.net since 2008. Pull the other one matey. You've been on here a long, long, long time. 

 

[shaun.lawson]

1 minute ago, Rudy T said:

 

Not to have allowed it by doing what???

 

By talking to his coaches. By watching what was going on. By leading, because that's his job. 

 

Now, if his coaches didn't realise what was going on either, that makes it even worse. 

[Victorian]

2/5  Successful unmasking.     

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Liar.

 

You posted that within days of my return here. I haven't posted on hibs.net since 2008. Pull the other one matey. You've been on here a long, long, long time. 

 

Not sure what that proved - sir vlad has been on here since April ?

[Hendricks]

1 minute ago, Haken said:

I wonder why someone who is not a 'traditional' supporter would go to the bother of posting about their chosen team on two forums.  Attention, perhaps?

 

 

I wonder why a 'traditional' supporter () would care that someone who improves the quality of debate on his teams forum would care enough to bother that he was posting!  The need to attempt to silence those with a different (and far more coherent) perspective, perhaps?

[Victorian]

1/6  Return of the 'Lawsier'.

[Beast Boy]

Just now, shaun.lawson said:

 

Liar.

 

You posted that within days of my return here. I haven't posted on hibs.net since 2008. Pull the other one matey. You've been on here a long, long, long time. 

 

 

Interesting... Is he perhaps ‘English’? Random stab in the dark... @Frank1874 you can take that either way too Chief!

 

This is far better stuff Shaun. You should post way more of this kinda thing, and leave the essays alone for a bit.

 

[jambovambo]

Shaun ... you’re now on 378 replies and the 8th page of them. 

 

Isnt that what you wanted?

Edited April 24, 2018 by jambovambo

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Not sure what that proved - sir vlad has been on here since April ?

 

What it proves, as plenty of other posts of his prove (through the specific labels with which he attacks me), is he somehow knows about things to do with me that happened long long ago. Despite only registering here in November 2017.

 

His attacks on Mothy have been part of the same thing. He's on here to troll others. He does this by using information he's gleaned on us by being part of this forum for many many years.

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, jambovambo said:

Shaun ... you’re now on 378 replies and the 8th page of them. 

 

Isnt that what you wanted?

 

Stay on topic please... Now, about SVoR’s true identity...  

[doctor jambo]

Just now, jambovambo said:

Shaun ... you’re now on 378 replies and the 8th page of them. 

 

Isnt that hat what you wanted?

Not really - we moved from his faux intelligentsia to nanny grooming DVD and a South African swimming Olympian 

its like cleudo on acid

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, jambovambo said:

Shaun ... you’re now on 378 replies and the 8th page of them. 

 

Isnt that what you wanted?

 

Not remotely. Though mind you: I've yet to meet anyone who posts on any forum anywhere and doesn't want anyone to read what they say. 

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

4 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Liar.

 

You posted that within days of my return here. I haven't posted on hibs.net since 2008. Pull the other one matey. You've been on here a long, long, long time. 

 

 

I stand corrected. I'll have read it on here. Its rather simple. 

 

And you calling someone a liar? How's your dvd collection? Still in touch with your nanny? 

 

You do realise the board most likely has measures in place to stop multiple accounts? You bash on tho. 

[Alex Kintner]

4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Not really - we moved from his faux intelligentsia to nanny grooming DVD and a South African swimming Olympian 

its like cleudo on acid

 

Did I miss the nanny grooming DVD discussion?

Edited April 24, 2018 by Frank1874

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

How's your dvd collection? Still in touch with your nanny? 

 

"Registered: November 2017".

 

I rest my case m'lud. 

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

 

I stand corrected. I'll have read it on here. Its rather simple. 

 

And you calling someone a liar? How's your dvd collection? Still in touch with your nanny? 

 

You do realise the board most likely has measures in place to stop multiple accounts? You bash on tho. 

What’s the nanny DVD thing all about?

[Beast Boy]

Just now, shaun.lawson said:

 

What it proves, as plenty of other posts of his prove (through the specific labels with which he attacks me), is he somehow knows about things to do with me that happened long long ago. Despite only registering here in November 2017.

 

His attacks on Mothy have been part of the same thing. He's on here to troll others. He does this by using information he's gleaned on us by being part of this forum for many many years.

 

We are certainly not natural bedfellows but I could not agree more. 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

13 minutes ago, Hendricks said:

There appears to be absolutely nothing that Levein should be held accountable for. Glad thats been cleared up by those who care more about his failing career than they do about the best interests of Heart of Midlothian Football Club. 

Robbie confirmed that Levein and his old reliable mucker Murray, identify 3 or 4 players in a particular position. They obviously rate each of these players or they wouldn't shortlist them. Martin, Oshaniwa, Anderson...they were handpicked by CL and I'M. The  coach preferences them and CL negotiates with agents. The coach has the final say.  If CL and JM shortlisted players that they had doubts about or didn't rate then they were knowingly damaging the business and should be sacked on the spot. Hope that clears up the DOF role for Levein's cyber pals.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Nice work. ?

 

"I'll have read it on here". ? Should be pretty easy to check if there was a post between November and March that mentioned Lawson and Norwich. 

[Big Slim Stylee]

29 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

I know who you are, I know who you arrrrre...

 

Sir Vladimir of Romanov, I know who you are. 

 

 

Honestly man, fecking grow up ?

[colinmaroon]

15 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

I’d have preferred it in Spanish. 

 

 

Or the Gaelic, for the same reason I love watching Alba - can't understand a word they're saying, apart from Hearts and nonnie!

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

3 minutes ago, Frank1874 said:

What’s the nanny DVD thing all about?

 

Two separate things mate, he hasn't explained them fully. From what I understand (others will have to fill in the blanks that read this stuff in the past)

 

The boring one lied about having something on dvd a Wales game I believe. He also claims to have shagged his nanny many moons ago. I'm sure he will be along to explain soon. 

[Rudy T]

13 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

By talking to his coaches. By watching what was going on. By leading, because that's his job. 

 

Now, if his coaches didn't realise what was going on either, that makes it even worse. 

 

So stepping in!?

 

I've already told you the coaches did do something.  One in particular...but you ignored that.

[sadj]

25 minutes ago, Hendricks said:

There appears to be absolutely nothing that Levein should be held accountable for. Glad thats been cleared up by those who care more about his failing career than they do about the best interests of Heart of Midlothian Football Club. 

How on earth is that what people are saying. You’ve gone off the deep end you were at least having a reasoned debate. That however is not what anyone is saying at all.

[shaun.lawson]

3 minutes ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

From what I understand

 

 

Thinks he's Chick Young now as well.  

[Hendricks]

9 minutes ago, sadj said:

How on earth is that what people are saying. You’ve gone off the deep end you were at least having a reasoned debate. That however is not what anyone is saying at all.

 

 

Numerous people are excusing anything and everything. I'd suggest you read their posts, many of which are in fairness pretty incoherent, on the multiple recent threads. One of the points in the OP in the "Will this marriage end in divorce" thread suggested our support is divided for one reason and one reason only; Craig Levein's presence. That is becoming more and more evident. Until he is removed our club will not see the support pulling in the same direction, that much is very clear. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Hendricks

[shaun.lawson]

6 minutes ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

 

Honestly man, fecking grow up ?

 

Believe it or not, having a poster registering specifically for the purpose of trolling other members isn't very pleasant. I doubt you'd like it if it ever happened to you either. It's creepy and weird. 

 

And can I just get this right. Others are now referring to nannies and DVDs - and I'm the one who needs to grow up? In the immortal words of a legendary poster, it's some caper, the JKB. 

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

2 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

Thinks he's Chick Young now as well.  

 

You just glossed over the rest of the post? No denial anyway. 

 

 

[sadj]

22 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

I started a thread on a football forum. Shame on me. And then, when others demanded information about my past Spanish Inquistion-style, I was slagged off for initially not answering them, because I hate it when threads become about me.

 

It's not me who turns them into that. It's others. 

 

 

Threads turn into Shaun threads due in part to how you post , both intentionally and unintenionally. 

 

Yes today you were asked about certain things cause some are trying to understand your reasoning for choosing Hearts and why people should give yoU credibility. I was asked a question by a poster the other day why I had certain opinions I gave them a frank and straightforward answer while still saying everyone is entitled to an opinion as they come from different levels of passion , understanding , knowledge or in some cases sanity.

 

 

 

 

[Alex Kintner]

10 minutes ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

 

Two separate things mate, he hasn't explained them fully. From what I understand (others will have to fill in the blanks that read this stuff in the past)

 

The boring one lied about having something on dvd a Wales game I believe. He also claims to have shagged his nanny many moons ago. I'm sure he will be along to explain soon. 

 

 

what’s the other forum thing about?

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

Just now, Frank1874 said:

 

 

what’s the other forum thing about?

 

No idea, just seen it mentioned here. Wouldn't surprise me. And he calls other people trolls. 

[shaun.lawson]

3 minutes ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

 

No idea, just seen it mentioned here. 

 

 Yeah, right. 

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

2 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 Yeah, right. 

 

You seem upset shaun. Why not sit back and watch a dvd. Oh wait, eh maybe not. 

 

 

[dc-jambo]

Not always agreeing with Shaun, as I said, but he sure manages to provoke and expose the biggest chancers on JKB. In this thread’s case: the people who are on here to defend Sunday’s abominable performance. 

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

1 minute ago, dc-jambo said:

Not always agreeing with Shaun, as I said, but he sure manages to provoke and expose the biggest chancers on JKB. In this thread’s case: the people who are on here to defend Sunday’s abominable performance. 

 

Oh come on, some of us were just about to forget about that and now you've reminded us. 

 

Shame on you. 

[Bazzas right boot]

[sadj]

1 hour ago, dc-jambo said:

Not always agreeing with Shaun, as I said, but he sure manages to provoke and expose the biggest chancers on JKB. In this thread’s case: the people who are on here to defend Sunday’s abominable performance. 

Whos defended Sundays performance on this thread?

[Hearts1975]

21 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

Before I start, I just want to reassure the good people of Kickback that I don't have a psychologist friend named Ben, nor will there be some dramatic entreaty to tune in next time complete with EastEnders drumroll at the end of this post. This is entirely my own theory, based on studying Craig Levein's long career. 

 

A lot of Hearts fans are plainly bewildered by how we're currently playing, especially away from home. The complaint about the Rangers game isn't that we lost; it's that we didn't even try to win. We played as if paralysed by fear: bizarre, given how fragile our opponents were. That very fear has characterised so many displays on our travels. It stems from the manager - and there's a reason for it.

 

This is someone who was a world class central defender. The best player many Hearts fans have ever had the privilege to see. He'd surely have gone on to become famous as one of the best defenders in the world had it not been for appalling misfortune with injury, which destroyed his career. People might object to my use of this word, but I regard it as a genuine personal tragedy.

 

Despite that, he still came excruciatingly close to glory as a player. Consider: as a mere 21-year-old light years ahead of his time, he was an integral part of a side just 7 lousy minutes from an astonishing, heroic league title - which might well have gone on to claim the double too. But he missed the final league game through illness: which some still blame him for to this day. It's perfectly possible that on some irrational level, he might even blame himself. 1986: the annus horribilis he went on to be defined by, especially given he picked up his first serious knee injury later that same year. 

 

Then, as part of the squad, he went on to either lose or watch his teammates lose semi-final after semi-final: five in total. By the time we finally smashed through that infuriating glass ceiling against Aberdeen in 1996, he was no longer part of Jim Jefferies' plans, and retired the following season. Whereupon only a year later, we won our first trophy in 36 years, and wee Robbo at last got the medal he and so many others (Levein foremost among them) desperately deserved.

 

For Craig, it was on to management. First, at Cowdenbeath, where he did a brilliant job, and left them on track for promotion, which they went on to secure. Then to Hearts: where he again did a brilliant job in horribly trying circumstances. Back-to-back 3rd place finishes were remarkable; the performances in Bordeaux and Braga, tremendous. Then, a few months into 04/5, he left for Leicester... and only the following season, we won the Scottish Cup again. With a squad whose core had developed under him.

 

After failing badly at Leicester, and doing a brief turn for Raith Rovers, he turned around Dundee United's fortunes magnificently. Before him, they'd been atrocious for a decade. Under him, they were strong, solid contenders for best of the rest. But yet again, his chronic bad luck struck. Twice they lost out on 4th place on the last day (on the latter occasion, with European football at stake too). Against Rangers in the League Cup Final - the only final he's ever reached as a manager - United were excellent, had a stonewall penalty turned down, led twice, were within first 6 minutes, then (in extra time) 8 minutes of winning... and lost. On penalties.

 

The following season, they returned to the semis, met Celtic, and extraordinarily, lost 11-10... on penalties. Rubbing salt into gaping wounds, the man who missed the decisive pen was none other than Willo Flood, who'd join Celtic only days later. 

 

Somehow, United rebounded from this, got even stronger, and were well on course for 3rd place when their manager left for the Scotland job. Then, lo and behold: in their very first Cup campaign after Levein left, they won only their second Scottish Cup ever, with a squad entirely assembled by him. The third time a team he either played for or managed won the Cup so soon after his departure; the second time it ended a significant drought in so doing.

 

It's not just that he lost two gutpunchers on penalties as a manager, so many semi-finals as a player, suffered final day heartbreak as player and manager, and was robbed by illness of the chance to win the title with us. It's not just that injury wrecked his brilliant career; or that like Hearts in '86, the 1990 Scotland side - whose final game he was ruled out of - were only minutes from making history at his only major tournament either. It's all of this, plus the success of Cowdenbeath, Hearts (twice) and United almost immediately after he left. 

 

Try to imagine being in his shoes. How would you feel after so much heartbreak, so much ill fortune, the vast majority of which was beyond your control? You'd be devastated, and would probably feel you were cursed. But much more importantly, the sheer trauma of all this would, very likely, scar you so much internally that it'd make you terrified. 

 

In life, trauma of whatever kind affects very many people. The most common reaction is it makes us scared: of relationships, of taking risks, of getting our constantly bruised heart broken. So we try to avoid risks, we play it safe - not realising that in doing so, we're sabotaging our own chances of the story ever changing. We see this in sport too: in tennis or snooker players who've lost crucial matches from miles ahead, and panic when in the same position again; and among football players (Exhibit A: England penalty takers) or managers whose team, for whatever reason, just keep on hitting the post.

 

So it's been with Levein. What was 4-6-0 in Prague based on if not pure fear? What have his tactics since retaking the Hearts job been based on, but again, pure fear? The thrashing of Celtic only happened because injuries forced him to take risks and remove the shackles; our equaliser at Motherwell in the Cup only happened because, trailing at half time after an embarrassing first half, he had to make positive changes. But at 1-1, with the hosts there for the taking in the biggest game of the season, he froze; and instead of going for the throat, allowed fate to take its course and again give him and us a gigantic boot in the balls.

 

This is someone I consider to be, almost certainly, the unluckiest individual working in British football - but whose fear emanating from that begats such a negative approach that it guarantees failure... and hence, his downfall. I feel desperately sorry for him - but in footballing terms, he's a broken man. As, I dare say, would anyone else be after enduring all of this.

 

The facetious conclusion from the above is: if we want to win next year's Scottish Cup, sacking him now would practically guarantee it. The other conclusion is: it's ruined him. I bear no ill will or malice towards Craig Levein at all; he's been a fantastic servant for this club, and deserves so much more than he's constantly got. But it's precisely because he's just as human as all the rest of us that, I'm afraid, all the disappointments, all the letdowns, have inevitably caught up with him. And that's why it's time to say: thanks for the memories Craig, all the best, but goodbye.

Shaun - I hadn't read many of your posts before, obviously you have been on this forum a long time, a lot longer than me personally, but I want to debate the point that you make and for a few specific reasons

 

I emigrated last year to the other side of the planet hence joining this forum - I had my ST and went to a lot of away games as well, week in week out. I obviously had heard of kickback but when I was going to the games didn't have the desire to join at the time, as I was seeing what was happening week in week out. I personally have become addicted to this place as its hard enough moving away from friends and family without missing my beloved club and the games week in, week out. Desperately trying to find streams to games every week - getting up at 3am in the mornings, sweating that I cant pick up a decent stream to each game without it crashing, its a mental torture in all honesty. However, its good reading different points of view and having reasoned debate and hearing good points being raised and only by being on here

 

For me there is 4 groups on this forum. I think a lot of supporters have an emotional tie to CL, in the sense that and we all know that he was probably one of the finest players ever to grace the maroon in a generation, so when you see any personal attacks from poster to poster, this normally comes about when you see any personal attacks on the man himself, which rightly or wrongly is understandable. These same posters will defend him through thick and thin, and again, who can blame them - he is a hearts legend and that will never change. The opposite end is you then have posters who just don't want or like him managing the club because of a perceived attitude that CL has to games in the sense that they think he sets us up, primarily not to lose rather than win - In their eyes, he is far to conservative because of a perceived attitude toward the game in general. Then you have those that want him to get the summer, get the necessary players in and make a decision after this point and depending on how well we do going into next season, and thinking that we are sacrificing short term success for long term success. The final group like to come on and stir shite whenever they can and they have as much affiliation to Hearts as most of us do to Neil Lennon's arse - unfortunately. However, and excluding the unfortunates group, out of                 Group A Stay           Group B/ Go         Group C/ Give him the summer                         who is actually right? - History may tell us, anything else is speculation at this point in time

 

The first point is that your theory, and definitely interesting in parts, has a preclusion that CL life and actual events has formed or shaped his thinking or tactical beliefs within the game. He has had a lot of hardship , for sure, and yes - you are right in the sense that mentally this could have affected him as it could have affected us all - but this is based on your theory right? - My Uncle, who played football, knew CL very very well - he didn't particularly like him as a person but respected him for his decisiveness and not being swayed by what others thought - Brings me back to the point - people who are scarred or scared of the future will tend to lean on others for opinions as they have formed self doubt, as my Uncle said to me, this never happened with Levein - he was the exact opposite. Point 2 - You mentioned his management career to date - Hearts twice, Dundee Utd, Leicester and Scotland - This doesn't sound like someone who is inhibited or mentally has been affected by fear - Takes a lot of guts and ambition to keep progressing like this even when you are taking knocks along the way - again, doesn't appear that inhibition is in play. Point 3, and for me the key point is this - CL has and always has been a high level thinker in the game and even before the actual events which shaped his life - If he had tasted the personal success in his playing career or won a trophy in his management career would he think differently than he does now ? - I think in all honesty, the answer is no - he wouldn't  - Taking a National Side is different from building a club structure within a club side so I understand to a degree what happened in his time with Scotland, mistakes happened, but something different happened within his time with the club sides, exc Leicester and for the reasons that I gave  

 

Finally, and going back to the groups of posters I'm in the give him the summer camp - A lot of posters think this is a mentally deranged thought process and who can blame them given our recent performances - I can understand completely. One of the key things about CL for me is this, he isn't the type of manager you can hand a bunch of players to and will get the best out of them immediately. I see him as more of a builder, a strategic thinker, where he builds up his team through time - selecting the right type of players to do the job. This is probably one of the annoyances at the moment with signings - we are already 2 signings, possibly 3 in, Mclean, Mulraney and Oochy (spelling is terrible) and we are now doomed in a lot of peoples eyes. I remember when Valois, De Vries and Fuller were signed - No one even knew who they were - plucked from obscurity and look what happened. I'm not going to argue out who's team it was, who signed the players etc - and under Robbie/Cathro - that's been and gone. I'm judging Levein solely on the signings which he has made and since Christmas and not before and to date they have been good, all be it Danny needs to improve but may just need a good pre season. Don't get me wrong, my one overall criticism with CL is that he may overthink things at times, take more risks etc, but you could also argue that people don't think things through enough - argument goes both ways

 

As you alluded to with your post and when he was given time with Hearts, first time round, and Utd look what he left in place?. A structure from top to bottom that was built to be taken forward - By rights, I think that was the problem at Leicester - English football these days is get it right immediately or you are out - unfortunately he couldn't do it quickly enough - This isn't CL's game - Anyone who thinks he will bring instant success needs their own head read - If you look at the history and the facts, everything successful that he built in the past points toward the fact that he doesn't do it overnight, but that it takes time,  but his track record with us (1st time round) is that he can, and if given time he will. These are facts and I personally would rather follow the facts than some physiological theory that his life conditioning has affected him in some adverse way and this is impacting on our performances on the field. Yes, we cant wait forever on us improving and i'm sure it is getting to cometh the hour, cometh the man type stuff, and if our performances and results don't improve he has to make way, and quickly. We are key players short in parts of the team and he needs to bring these players in.

 

I'm just concerned currently that due to the desire for immediate and improved success and watching our verministic friends gain a wee bit of short term success in the same period that we see this as an ideal time to see fit to pull the trigger on our own longer term project, and potentially to soon, and something that if we did keep in place will deliver what we need, and the structure of bringing in top talent from the academy and selling on when the time is right giving us a long term sustainable successful model on and off the park. If we have got this wrong, then we have got it wrong - its ripped up and moved on to Plan B whatever that maybe. Word of caution, if we rip it up right now and before next season we potentially pull the plug on something that history will never have the benefit of defining - this is my own dilemma and why I choose not to