Craig Levein: A Psychological Explanation

[Rudy T]

5 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

It's kind of embarrassing how Shaun gets targeted like this tbh. Decent, thought-provoking OP - the kind the board doesn't see enough of whether you agree with it or not - and he's set upon like a kid in the playground. 

 

How is it thought provoking, what does Shaun do that qualifies him to make this psychoanalysis which in short breaks down to nothing more than he lost a couple of semi finals, had an injury and teams he left won a cup with his team. Its simply another way to continue this tirade of abuse directed at the manager. The most laughable thing of all is he's going nowhere.

[Rudy T]

5 minutes ago, sadj said:

Have you ever been able to tap into his football mind. Theres many people in the game who have opinions or thoughts on past present and future. Iv played with many and met many more and none have I ever felt had an insight or thought process or ideas in regards to football like CL. Thats not just me to be respected in football continually is a difficult task its something he has achieved over a very long period of time. Longer than Lennon longer than Clarke which are two names constantly thrown about. 

 

Yes in relation to Hearts he may care to much but thats a different conversation

 

Exactly having spent time in his company on a few occasions it just makes this whole thread a joke. I'd seriously love Shaun and a few others to met Levein and see what their opinion is after that. To suggest he's past it or broken or whatever is being leveled at him is ridiculous.

[Heart of the Matter]

I enjoyed your post Shaun, but I don't agree that CL is necessarily risk averse in the way you conclude.

 

A risk averse DoF would not have recruited Ian Cathro to take charge of the club, given his complete lack of any experience of football management.  That was a huge gamble.

 

A risk averse manager wouldn't play 16 and 17 year-old newbies like Cochrane, McDonald, Brandon and others so early and so regularly in their careers.  It's less risky to select experienced pros, like Cowie and Bauben.

 

He has, in the past, signed players like Ricardo Fuller, and JL Valois who were exciting, off-the-cuff type footballers.  Signed some dross too, it has to be said.

 

I liked your 'amateur psychology' but, instead of being risk averse, I get the feeling that Craig Levein has turned into a systems thinker (maybe not not in the same way as Cathro is) and rigid adherence to systems can suppress creativity, kill flair and stop players expressing themselves and taking risks.

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

1 minute ago, Rudy T said:

 

How is it thought provoking, what does Shaun do that qualifies him to make this psychoanalysis which in short breaks down to nothing more than he lost a couple of semi finals, had an injury and teams he left won a cup with his team. Its simply another way to continue this tirade of abuse directed at the manager. The most laughable thing of all is he's going nowhere.

 

It's not a "tirade of abuse". I don't even dislike the guy. I feel sorry for him because of what I set out, and grateful to him for his very many years of service to the club. But what I set out explains why his tactical approach is so awful.

 

No other Scotland manager has ever played 4-6-0 with no out ball; only Craig Levein has. Was this evidence of his 'incredible football brain' too? No. It's evidence of a shitebag. Someone whose terror overwhelms him when it matters - for perfectly good reason, given everything I detailed in the OP.

[Hendricks]

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

Have you ever been able to tap into his football mind. Theres many people in the game who have opinions or thoughts on past present and future. Iv played with many and met many more and none have I ever felt had an insight or thought process or ideas in regards to football like CL. Thats not just me to be respected in football continually is a difficult task its something he has achieved over a very long period of time. Longer than Lennon longer than Clarke which are two names constantly thrown about. 

 

Yes in relation to Hearts he may care to much but thats a different conversation

 

 

So taking on board your comments and for a second believing you are seeing something that few others are, after all nobody at a bigger club side than Hearts has wanted take a chance on Levein out with his short and failed stint at Leicester i) why are his results totally mediocre? ii) why has he won nothing despite being this deep thinker? iii) why is he not coveted for bigger jobs given these skills you allege? 

 

Whilst I don't doubt that Levein has the intelligence to have studied the game and have strong opinions on many facets of it there is very little evidence that your gushing over him is anything but a personal regard for him. Professionally you will seriously struggle to back it up with anything of great substance. 

[Jimbinho]

9 hours ago, Gizmo said:

Absolute amateur hour shite.

Adversity often makes a person, Shaun. You really shouldn't be wasting pixels trying to further the pathetic "loser" mantra that CL's critics have tarred him with. Probably drawn from the same pool of self-entitled, knee-jerking ******* who hired a ****ing plane when our then head coach had us fighting at the top of the league. Of course I recognize that all Hearts fans want better but there are absolutely no guarantees in football, particularly for us long in the tooth fans who suffered some horrendous seasons, and encouraging this odd sense of entitlement, which comes with a nice big slab of criticism and picking player targets to vent our fury on during games, is utterly counter-productive.  

One thing Levein said years ago which struck a chord is that it used to be a "siege mentality, an US v THEM mentality at Tynecastle". Now it's one misplaced pass from a striker who has ran their arse off all match and they are subjected to a torrent of abuse and decried as lazy. 

Many exceptional sportsmen and women have not gained the success they deserved, for myriad reasons. I very much doubt Colin Montgomery wanders about the place to this day crying when he can't open a difficult bottle top and wailing "I'm a failure at everything". Craig may have regrets over the odd mistake that was costly or the thin sliver of luck (or in the Utd final, clear bias from McCurry) that can steal success away from you at the death, but that's it. 

If his mentality is as weak as you are trying to claim, then surely that would have permeated right through the club and our championship romp should have been a disaster, the rebuild of the footballing academy should be seeing weak, timid youngsters looking scared when they come on to the pitch.

It's none of those things. Levein builds his teams from the back and tries to instill discipline and resolve first and foremost. He's done that with us at home, that is not even up for debate. 

Away from home we simply lack players who can come up with a spark of inspiration to cut through 20 minutes of a team doggedly defending or, if we haven't got started as often happens in many away games - the away team struggles for possession and influence and then - wham - turns the game (the old firm used to be masters at this, absorbing the home team throwing everything at them for the first 15-20 minutes and wearing themselves out) for them and go on to win. We also lack pace which leaves us predictable and without a breakaway out-ball which is very important away from home.

The only question mark for me really is really does he still have that belligerent fire in his belly. If he does, and he makes smart decisions in the transfer market, he will have everything he needs to succeed having done the hard work off the field. Like most managers, he now has a close season, a transfer window and a fantastic platform. For those of us who believe/hope he still has it, we will see won't we. For those who don't, then surely they will at least be assured that this will be his one chance and that he will have absolutely no excuses if it goes wrong. 

 

Pretty much sums it up.

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, Hendricks said:

why is he not coveted for bigger jobs given these skills you allege? 

 

Indeed. The answer is because he's about a decade past it. 

[ShedBoy]

13 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Yes. We could try it and see, at least? 

??? I’ll give anything a whirl right now 

[sadj]

20 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

*sigh* I've told this story many times before. The reason I haven't done so yet again, until this post, is because I hate threads turning into Shaun threads. That was a highly justified complaint in the past - but I can't help people being fascinated/obsessed (delete as applicable) with me I suppose.

 

When we're kids, we choose football teams for all manner of reasons. In many cases, it's because of who our family support. In my case, that didn't apply, because no-one in my family followed football (albeit, my younger brother went on to follow Tottenham; my younger sister, Norwich, and she writes about women's football now). I also have a peculiar emotional make-up (TLDR: being an outsider suits me) which means it makes sense that I'd choose to follow two clubs who weren't local. In short, tribalism isn't my thing; but football certainly is.

 

I chose Norwich (memo to neilnunb: why would anyone post on the Norwich FB page? Like the Hearts FB page, it's full to the brim of clowns) and Hearts for very similar reasons. In Norwich's case, it was because, midway through 1988/9, they were in the title race alongside Arsenal - but patronised, ridiculed and otherwise ignored. It pissed me off. In Hearts' case, it was because, midway through 1991/2, we were in the title race alongside Rangers - but patronised, ridiculed and largely ignored. That pissed me off as well - so I chose Hearts too. Heck, the very reason I live where I do now is because my long, long fascination with Uruguay started when I attended England v Uruguay at Wembley in May 1990: my first ever England game. 

 

I've never pretended to be 'normal' (though what is 'normal' anyway?), nor anyone other than my own person. But having chosen Hearts and Norwich, it's been lifelong for me (with no difference in my affections towards either) ever since. Far and away my favourite time following Hearts - and the period when I went to most games - was between 1996 and 2000 under JJ. That was the era encompassing my gap year and uni, so I had much more free time; and as I didn't drink or smoke and had a railcard, I had plenty of cash to spend on the club too. That's why I write about that period so often.

 

Later, as I headed onto a PhD, my resources grew a lot thinner, so I didn't get to many games. Only a couple a season until 2006 or so; none since 2010; and I moved to this country in early 2012, and flights back to the UK are horribly expensive. And you can impose some arbitrary cut-off point if you want: "You're not allowed to comment because you haven't been to a game since x" - but I think that'd be pretty absurd. Not least because if it's to grow, the club needs all the fans it can get, wherever they're from.

 

It was quite funny seeing neilnunb questioning me earlier - because my first ever online exchange about Hearts was with him, after Dundee 1-0 Hearts at the end of October in 1998. I was worried - while he was absolutely raging! That was on the Hearts chat thing which was part of the old club website. I started posting on Kickback in early 2000; and if you search for JKB on the internet archive, there you'll find me and a bunch of other familiar names from later that year. 

 

It would be extremely strange - in fact, it'd be downright sectionable - for someone with no emotional attachment to Hearts to have written well over 40,000 posts about them (and many more before 2008) on an internet forum. If people find it odd that an Englishman brought up in Middlesex (and who, incidentally, only lived in Norwich for 3 years while at uni) should choose to follow Hearts, that's their look-out. In fact, all they're doing towards me is what I'm doing towards Levein: amateur psychoanalysis. 

Thank you , in amongst the wordplay there was a bit of info on your hearts background. I think thats what many asked for I don’t think anyone doubts your intellect or your right to post just possibly your reasons and why they should take any notice of your tbf ramblings on subjects. 

 

The thing I would say to that is if you ask most then Hearts chose them they didnt choose Hearts it was never an option. That will obv allow a certain level of non emotional deattachment which many of us arent afforded.

The only teams I have chosen to look out for are ones i played for or who were kind enough to give me help or a base to train and they i have no inclination to really put any effort into doing anything with as you do on here. 

 

 

[Beast Boy]

See this 4-6-0 thing... folk realise and remember that Naismith started that game, right? Do they honestly believe he was given instructions not to try and attack the goal? 

 

I just find it totally crazy that folk one minute accuse Levein of being a dinosaur who only likes playing big target men up top and then later decry 4-6-0 where we had a very small striker as our most advanced player and it was such a risky approach to a game.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Bez

[Rudy T]

1 minute ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

It's not a "tirade of abuse". I don't even dislike the guy. I feel sorry for him because of what I set out, and grateful to him for his very many years of service to the club. But what I set out explains why his tactical approach is so awful.

 

No other Scotland manager has ever played 4-6-0 with no out ball; only Craig Levein has. Was this evidence of his 'incredible football brain' too? No. It's evidence of a shitebag. Someone whose terror overwhelms him when it matters - for perfectly good reason, given everything I detailed in the OP.

 

Shaun, you knew fine well what the response would be so you can knock off the patronising response; you feel sorry for him.. stop yourself.

 

It was evidence he was prepared to try something different and yes we know fine well who introduced the system as you also will (if not google it).  To hold one game up as "evidence" is pathetic he had a 40+% win rate with Scotland which in recent times is better than most. Explain how 2-0 v Aberdeen and 4-0 v Celtic as examples make him a shitebag? 

[Hendricks]

5 minutes ago, sadj said:

 

See now that was a pointless retort , thats what winds me up with you. You can make good points at times and hold a discussion then you veer off into how can I slag CL. His IQ is neither here nor there nlr is how hes perceived as a person. His football brain and football IQ are far and away above anyone Iv met in the game or had the pleasure to talk football with. 

 

I was praising his intelligence and that he is an outlier, especially in Scotland in that regard. 

 

You clearly have a personal regard for Levein which clouds your judgement, such is life it happens to the best of us with people we meet and have an affection for. That said I'd love to see your list of who you have had discussions with given what you've said. I've also spoken to Craig Levein on numerous occasions in the past as well as far more prominent people in the football world, people with REAL achievement on their CV's so I'd dismiss out of hand your comments that he is some sort of progressive, all knowing genius. His career path, his results, his lack of tangible success and the fact nobody of note in the club game has wanted him to provide this "football IQ" would certainly back me up! 

[sadj]

7 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

Exactly having spent time in his company on a few occasions it just makes this whole thread a joke. I'd seriously love Shaun and a few others to met Levein and see what their opinion is after that. To suggest he's past it or broken or whatever is being leveled at him is ridiculous.

Indeed but thats also part of the whole board ideal. People have differing opinions they have varying levels of knowledge of the game or people or understanding of the whole goldfish bowl that is the football world. I do agree though many would have a differing opinion if they had the chance to meet him and talk football. Not just hearts but football

[sadj]

8 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

It's not a "tirade of abuse". I don't even dislike the guy. I feel sorry for him because of what I set out, and grateful to him for his very many years of service to the club. But what I set out explains why his tactical approach is so awful.

 

No other Scotland manager has ever played 4-6-0 with no out ball; only Craig Levein has. Was this evidence of his 'incredible football brain' too? No. It's evidence of a shitebag. Someone whose terror overwhelms him when it matters - for perfectly good reason, given everything I detailed in the OP.

See now youve gone from being eloquent and making sensible inroads and having a wise debate to abuse. Why? 

 

You are imo wrong due to my experience i said that. The 4-6-0 thing is a myth. Question Steven Naismith about it. Watch how Zenit play you’ll see similar tactical displays. Difference they have quality we lack. I dont mind many things but 4-6-0 pisses me off

[Hendricks]

2 minutes ago, Bez said:

See this 4-6-0 thing... folk realise and remember that Naismith started that game, right? Do they honestly believe he was given instructions not to try and attack the goal? 

 

Injust find it totallybcrazy that folk one minute accuse Levein of being a dinosaur who only likes playing big target men up top and then later decry 4-6-0 where we had a very small striker as our most advanced player.

 

 

For the record Naismith actually played on the left of midfield in that game. I was in Prague to witness it. He's been used in the same withdrawn role for Hearts on numerous occasions this season again handicapping his influence and meaning we haven't utilized him to the best of his ability. Go figure!

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Hendricks said:

 

 

For the record Naismith actually played on the left of midfield in that game. I was in Prague to witness it. He's been used in the same withdrawn role for Hearts on numerous occasions this season again handicapping his influence and meaning we haven't utilized him to the best of his ability. Go figure!

 

“Right Steven. You are playing left wing tonight. I want you to hug the touch line and ping in crosses.”

 

Something like that, aye Hendricks?

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, sadj said:

See now youve gone from being eloquent and making sensible inroads and having a wise debate to abuse. Why? 

 

You are imo wrong due to my experience i said that. The 4-6-0 thing is a myth. Question Steven Naismith about it. Watch how Zenit play you’ll see similar tactical displays. Difference they have quality we lack. I dont mind many things but 4-6-0 pisses me off

 

I’d love to hear what Naismith says about that night actually, mate. Could you paraphrase? ?

[Hendricks]

Just now, Bez said:

 

“Right Steven. You are playing left wing tonight. I want you to hug the touch line and ping in crosses.”

 

Something like that, aye Hendricks?

 

 

Nah, something like "be very compact, don't let them get round the outside of us, frustrate them, silence the crowd (even though it was 50% noisy Scots!) etc". Pinging in a cross would have been as much use as a chocolate fireguard given we had nobody in the box! 

[sadj]

6 minutes ago, Hendricks said:

 

I was praising his intelligence and that he is an outlier, especially in Scotland in that regard. 

 

You clearly have a personal regard for Levein which clouds your judgement, such is life it happens to the best of us with people we meet and have an affection for. That said I'd love to see your list of who you have had discussions with given what you've said. I've also spoken to Craig Levein on numerous occasions in the past as well as far more prominent people in the football world, people with REAL achievement on their CV's so I'd dismiss out of hand your comments that he is some sort of progressive, all knowing genius. His career path, his results, his lack of tangible success and the fact nobody of note in the club game has wanted him to provide this "football IQ" would certainly back me up! 

I have a personal regard for him? Not particularly , I view him from a professional point of view as I do many people in the game. Who iv discussed things with and who I havent is irrelevant. This line about what someone has achieved is not one that to me is relevant. You can dismiss them if you like thats my opinion and Iv explained why. You say hes not got a footballing IQ and that goes against the grain of general perception in the game and also suggests you have a personal regard for him that clouds your judgement.

 

opinions Hendricks opinions. You from your experience me from mine. That less the dismissiveness and occasional belitting of others is why I don’t mind your posts over many on here. 

[sadj]

2 minutes ago, Bez said:

 

I’d love to hear what Naismith says about that night actually, mate. Could you paraphrase? ?

 

There was an interview with him where he was asked about it. Maybe one of the more technical or statty types can source it. Im sure he said along the lines of the tactics were correct for that game and we were unlucky. Thats possibly downplaying it so dont quote me on that. 

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, sadj said:

 

There was an interview with him where he was asked about it. Maybe one of the more technical or statty types can source it. Im sure he said along the lines of the tactics were correct for that game and we were unlucky. Thats possibly downplaying it so dont quote me on that. 

Cheers. I’ll see if I can find it. ?

[shaun.lawson]

12 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

he had a 40+% win rate with Scotland which in recent times is better than most. 

 

That you've now moved on to trying to defend his time as Scotland manager says to me: you can't see the woods for the trees.

 

Scotland were the first country in Europe to be eliminated from the 2014 World Cup qualifiers. Before San Marino, before Liechtenstein, before Andorra. A historic humiliation. In a job in which nobody succeeds in any more, he was an absolute catastrophe - and no-one, no-one on this forum defended him by the time he went. 

[Beast Boy]

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284/euro-2012/2010/10/08/2157182/steven-naismith-scotland-players-understood-craig-leveins-4

[kila]

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

 

There was an interview with him where he was asked about it. Maybe one of the more technical or statty types can source it. Im sure he said along the lines of the tactics were correct for that game and we were unlucky. Thats possibly downplaying it so dont quote me on that. 

 

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284/euro-2012/2010/10/08/2157182/steven-naismith-scotland-players-understood-craig-leveins-4

 

Scotland started in Prague with an unusual 4-6-0 formation but Naismith believes the players performed well, despite manager Craig Levein revealing the system would not be used against the world champions on Tuesday night.

“The manager had a game plan that was working pretty well and unfortunately for us we lost a goal at a set piece and it was an important goal for them,” he told BBC Scotland.

"It is different [the system] but we're professional footballers, we're not stupid.

“Everyone knew their role, we'd had thorough preparation for the game in that but the biggest disappointment for us is it's a set play, it's a disappointing goal to lose."

[Hendricks]

7 minutes ago, sadj said:

I have a personal regard for him? Not particularly , I view him from a professional point of view as I do many people in the game. Who iv discussed things with and who I havent is irrelevant. This line about what someone has achieved is not one that to me is relevant. You can dismiss them if you like thats my opinion and Iv explained why. You say hes not got a footballing IQ and that goes against the grain of general perception in the game and also suggests you have a personal regard for him that clouds your judgement.

 

opinions Hendricks opinions. You from your experience me from mine. That less the dismissiveness and occasional belitting of others is why I don’t mind your posts over many on here. 

 

I have not said he has "no football IQ" and indeed have praised his intelligence, as we both know its far from the norm in the game. But I definitely dispute that he is some sort of footballing guru which is what you are suggesting. Talking a good game would be a very appropriate tagline for Levein and I don't doubt that he can do that. In practice however he has found it a hell of a lot more difficult to implement these grandiose ideas as can be seen from the facts I outlined; little tangible success, no bigger clubs wanting him, a cv with not one major trophy listed on it etc etc.  

 

Saying that its irrelevant to you what someone has achieved is totally baffling. Its PROFESSIONAL sport, that is the only thing that one can be judged on at the end of the day. 

 

By the way the general perception of Craig Levein throughout the game is not a favorable one which is one of the reasons he was very content to be re-employed by Hearts and have Ann Budge minding his back.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Hendricks

[Beast Boy]

Here’s a good thread from 2012:

 

 

Many of the posters on it are now back under different names. Doubt they are willing to put their current pseudos to their old ones though. Shame as it would be nice to compare their opinions from them and now...

[doctor jambo]

4 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

That you've now moved on to trying to defend his time as Scotland manager says to me: you can't see the woods for the trees.

 

Scotland were the first country in Europe to be eliminated from the 2014 World Cup qualifiers. Before San Marino, before Liechtenstein, before Andorra. A historic humiliation. In a job in which nobody succeeds in any more, he was an absolute catastrophe - and no-one, no-one on this forum defended him by the time he went. 

I defended him

and still do 

more lauded managers than him have had worse results 

and it wasn't 460

press pish

[shaun.lawson]

9 hours ago, Gizmo said:

there are absolutely no guarantees in football

 

Actually, yes there are. If a team sets out as we did on Sunday and makes no effort to win the game - rather, to defend, defend and defend some more - almost always, it will lose. We weren't playing Barcelona on Sunday. We were playing a dreadful, mired in crisis Rangers: who had a crap, dodgy as hell goalkeeper; the utterly horrendous Russell bombscare Martin at the back; a miles past it Graham Dorrans patrolling midfield; and a support disgusted by their team and club. And we were scared... of that! 

 

Elsewhere, you highlight our chronic lack of creative players, who don't have that spark necessary to open up a football match. Which calls to mind a couple of things:

 

1. How did we crush Celtic 4-0 despite that? Oh yes, it's because Levein changed the gameplan because of injuries; circumstances forced him to have a go.

 

2. Who's been in charge of recruitment of our players for the last 4 years? Oh yes, Levein again. What a mystifying coincidence that the players we've recruited have largely matched his ultra-conservative approach to the game. 

 

3. When Cathro was failing to prepare us properly during pre-season, what exactly were the Director of Football and coaching staff doing? Were they all on holiday, or something?

[doctor jambo]

Started with mackie and Naismith 

two forwards

 

not the first manager to drop miller and face a backlash

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

Actually, yes there are. If a team sets out as we did on Sunday and makes no effort to win the game - rather, to defend, defend and defend some more - almost always, it will lose.

 

Your answer to there being no definites in Football... an “almost always” that isn’t even factually correct. 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Bez

[Bazzas right boot]

54 minutes ago, ShedBoy said:

So, in short, if we sack Levein now we will win the cup next year? 

 

 

A step back IMO, if  we keep him we are winning the double.

 

If anything I taken from the OP-Craig's due a break and like buses- two will come along at the same time.

 

[jambovambo]

14 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I defended him

and still do 

more lauded managers than him have had worse results 

and it wasn't 460

press pish

Thought that was a haiku for a moment. 

[Beast Boy]

See in retrospect, simply putting a question mark after the thread title would have helped. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Bez

[Rudy T]

13 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Actually, yes there are. If a team sets out as we did on Sunday and makes no effort to win the game - rather, to defend, defend and defend some more - almost always, it will lose. We weren't playing Barcelona on Sunday. We were playing a dreadful, mired in crisis Rangers: who had a crap, dodgy as hell goalkeeper; the utterly horrendous Russell bombscare Martin at the back; a miles past it Graham Dorrans patrolling midfield; and a support disgusted by their team and club. And we were scared... of that! 

 

Elsewhere, you highlight our chronic lack of creative players, who don't have that spark necessary to open up a football match. Which calls to mind a couple of things:

 

1. How did we crush Celtic 4-0 despite that? Oh yes, it's because Levein changed the gameplan because of injuries; circumstances forced him to have a go.

 

2. Who's been in charge of recruitment of our players for the last 4 years? Oh yes, Levein again. What a mystifying coincidence that the players we've recruited have largely matched his ultra-conservative approach to the game. 

 

3. When Cathro was failing to prepare us properly during pre-season, what exactly were the Director of Football and coaching staff doing? Were they all on holiday, or something?

 

1. Who was injured that forced such a radical change?

 

2. No he wasn't. 

 

3. So you think he's a broken failure but you were happy for him to step in and coach the team then? MacPhee highlighted the problems and fell out with Cathro.

 

More sensationalism!

[shaun.lawson]

1 minute ago, Rudy T said:

1. Who was injured that forced such a radical change?

 

2. No he wasn't. 

 

3. So you think he's a broken failure but you were happy for him to step in and coach the team then? MacPhee highlighted the problems and fell out with Cathro.

 

1. From the Hearts website: "Beset by injuries and suspensions, Craig Levein made seven changes to the side that defeated Dundee at Tynecastle Park on Tuesday evening. Out went Anthony McDonald, Isma Goncalves, Lewis Moore, John Souttar, Rafal Grzelak, Arnaud Djoum and Cole Stockton.

 

Replacing them were Harry Cochrane, Don Cowie, Ross Callachan, Michael Smith, Jamie Brandon, David Milinkovic and Kyle Lafferty". 

 

Circumstances forced upon him led to us playing proper football, in other words. That's a stunning indictment of him given what, for the most part, has followed. We beat Celtic 4-0 and he's been scared of keeping the same gameplan since! Batshit mental.

 

2. No, I wasn't happy for him to step in and coach the team. I was as sceptical as it can get from the outset: for the reasons I've set out; because he's done nothing good in the game since 2009; because his footballing approach is hideously conservative; and because the manner of his appointment - a month, to suddenly announce "the right man was here all along!" - was laughable, and an insult to everyone's intelligence.

 

3. If Levein wasn't in charge of recruitment - if he didn't have a big role in recruitment - exactly what did his job involve? Anything at all?

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

1. From the Hearts website: "Beset by injuries and suspensions, Craig Levein made seven changes to the side that defeated Dundee at Tynecastle Park on Tuesday evening. Out went Anthony McDonald, Isma Goncalves, Lewis Moore, John Souttar, Rafal Grzelak, Arnaud Djoum and Cole Stockton.

 

Replacing them were Harry Cochrane, Don Cowie, Ross Callachan, Michael Smith, Jamie Brandon, David Milinkovic and Kyle Lafferty". 

 

Circumstances forced upon him led to us playing proper football, in other words. That's a stunning indictment of him given what, for the most part, has followed. We beat Celtic 4-0 and he's been scared of keeping the same gameplan since! Batshit mental.

 

2. No, I wasn't happy for him to step in and coach the team. I was as sceptical as it can get from the outset: for the reasons I've set out; because he's done nothing good in the game since 2009; because his footballing approach is hideously conservative; and because the manner of his appointment - a month, to suddenly announce "the right man was here all along!" - was laughable, and an insult to everyone's intelligence.

 

3. If Levein wasn't in charge of recruitment - if he didn't have a big role in recruitment - exactly what did his job involve? Anything at all?

Google it and find out

[shaun.lawson]

13 minutes ago, Bez said:

See in retrospect, simply putting a question mark after the thread title would have helped. 

 

That's a fair point. I almost wrote 'Interpretation', which would've been a better choice of word. 

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, doctor jambo said:

Google it and find out

 

Thankyou for that enlightening contribution Doc. I do hope that's not what you tell your patients too. 

[Alex Kintner]

10 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

1. From the Hearts website: "Beset by injuries and suspensions, Craig Levein made seven changes to the side that defeated Dundee at Tynecastle Park on Tuesday evening. Out went Anthony McDonald, Isma Goncalves, Lewis Moore, John Souttar, Rafal Grzelak, Arnaud Djoum and Cole Stockton.

 

Replacing them were Harry Cochrane, Don Cowie, Ross Callachan, Michael Smith, Jamie Brandon, David Milinkovic and Kyle Lafferty". 

 

Circumstances forced upon him led to us playing proper football, in other words. That's a stunning indictment of him given what, for the most part, has followed. We beat Celtic 4-0 and he's been scared of keeping the same gameplan since! Batshit mental.

 

2. No, I wasn't happy for him to step in and coach the team. I was as sceptical as it can get from the outset: for the reasons I've set out; because he's done nothing good in the game since 2009; because his footballing approach is hideously conservative; and because the manner of his appointment - a month, to suddenly announce "the right man was here all along!" - was laughable, and an insult to everyone's intelligence.

 

3. If Levein wasn't in charge of recruitment - if he didn't have a big role in recruitment - exactly what did his job involve? Anything at all?

 

So the 4-0 humbling of a Celtic team who had gone 69 games unbeaten was only as a result of injuries? That’s nonsense. Only Djoum and Souttar were unavailable from the previous week’s team. The win was down to Levein’s tactics. He out-thought Brendan Rogers and it was clear from the opening minutes that our pressing game had them on the back foot.

 

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, sadj said:

Have you ever been able to tap into his football mind. Theres many people in the game who have opinions or thoughts on past present and future. Iv played with many and met many more and none have I ever felt had an insight or thought process or ideas in regards to football like CL. Thats not just me to be respected in football continually is a difficult task its something he has achieved over a very long period of time. Longer than Lennon longer than Clarke which are two names constantly thrown about. 

 

Yes in relation to Hearts he may care to much but thats a different conversation

 

I have always said that Levein is someone who thinks about football beyond just the 90minutes on a Saturday, and that he was an ideal choice to be a Director of Football.  I also said he looks (to me) that he would relish the job of Performance Director - the job Brian McClair does. 

 

However, none of this guarantees success over those 90'minutes on a Saturday, nor does it excuse him from us judging 

performances and results. 

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, Frank1874 said:

 

So the 4-0 humbling of a Celtic team who had gone 69 games unbeaten was only as a result of injuries? That’s nonsense. Only Djoum and Souttar were unavailable from the previous week’s team. The win was down to Levein’s tactics. He out-thought Brendan Rogers and it was clear from the opening minutes that our pressing game had them on the back foot.

 

 

How were we able to employ that pressing game given all our players are supposedly unfit because of Cathro? Why's it been employed so rarely since?

[Beast Boy]

20 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

That's a fair point. I almost wrote 'Interpretation', which would've been a better choice of word. 

 

Genuinely think this thread would have played out differently. 

[Alex Kintner]

5 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

How were we able to employ that pressing game given all our players are supposedly unfit because of Cathro? Why's it been employed so rarely since?

You’re avoiding my question. How can you claim the match-winning tactics were completely dictated by injuries and suspensions when only two players were unavailable?

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

I'm sorry, there's no nice way of putting this, but if you think the Director of FOOTBALL had no say in transfers then, well, you know...

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

I'm sorry, there's no nice way of putting this, but if you think the Director of FOOTBALL had no say in transfers then, well, you know...

 

Nobody thinks he had NO say. Some of us however understand that the head coaches had more say, and he was assisting them.

[i wish jj was my dad]

48 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Started with mackie and Naismith 

two forwards

 

not the first manager to drop miller and face a backlash

Correct. Was trying to remember the other forward. 

 

our risk averse, gutless shitebag manager was prepared to try something different though. Never welcome in this on so successful football nation. He is also such a risk averse shitebag that he hides behind the conveyor belt of graduates that he has introduced. It was such cowardice to put Harry Cochrane up against Scott Brown. And as for that gutless decision to recruit and back 30 years old Ian Cathro. He would never, ever step back into the dugout to sort out the mess either. Not when he can hide behind his puppets and Ann Budge.

 

 

 

[sadj]

10 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I have always said that Levein is someone who thinks about football beyond just the 90minutes on a Saturday, and that he was an ideal choice to be a Director of Football.  I also said he looks (to me) that he would relish the job of Performance Director - the job Brian McClair does. 

 

However, none of this guarantees success over those 90'minutes on a Saturday, nor does it excuse him from us judging 

performances and results. 

No indeed it doesn’t and unlike some you’ve not tried to dismiss the idea of hos football iq. He would be very good as a performance director imo. 

 

As i have said a million times the results and performances to me are not down to his tactics or negativity we are playing with what we can until the summer and even though were dire we are in games we have no right to be. Its not a place we want to be and as Iv also said Levein as DoF has to check himself for allowing to inexperienced managers more rope than they should of be it because he thought it would get us to the next level or not.

 

Personal attacks , 4-6-0 , longball tactics (which is not how we play or look to play or set up) or amateur pyschology whilst saying Levein should go cause hes a loser. Thats just ludicrous to me. If we dont improve after the summer then we have to re-evaluate and it will be a huge undertaking as it would make CLS position at the club outside of director on the board untenable.

[BobbyJenkins]

1 minute ago, sadj said:

No indeed it doesn’t and unlike some you’ve not tried to dismiss the idea of hos football iq. He would be very good as a performance director imo. 

 

As i have said a million times the results and performances to me are not down to his tactics or negativity we are playing with what we can until the summer and even though were dire we are in games we have no right to be. Its not a place we want to be and as Iv also said Levein as DoF has to check himself for allowing to inexperienced managers more rope than they should of be it because he thought it would get us to the next level or not.

 

Personal attacks , 4-6-0 , longball tactics (which is not how we play or look to play or set up) or amateur pyschology whilst saying Levein should go cause hes a loser. Thats just ludicrous to me. If we dont improve after the summer then we have to re-evaluate and it will be a huge undertaking as it would make CLS position at the club outside of director on the board untenable.

Absolutely this. Close the thread.

[Rudy T]

32 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

1. From the Hearts website: "Beset by injuries and suspensions, Craig Levein made seven changes to the side that defeated Dundee at Tynecastle Park on Tuesday evening. Out went Anthony McDonald, Isma Goncalves, Lewis Moore, John Souttar, Rafal Grzelak, Arnaud Djoum and Cole Stockton.

 

Replacing them were Harry Cochrane, Don Cowie, Ross Callachan, Michael Smith, Jamie Brandon, David Milinkovic and Kyle Lafferty". 

 

Circumstances forced upon him led to us playing proper football, in other words. That's a stunning indictment of him given what, for the most part, has followed. We beat Celtic 4-0 and he's been scared of keeping the same gameplan since! Batshit mental.

 

2. No, I wasn't happy for him to step in and coach the team. I was as sceptical as it can get from the outset: for the reasons I've set out; because he's done nothing good in the game since 2009; because his footballing approach is hideously conservative; and because the manner of his appointment - a month, to suddenly announce "the right man was here all along!" - was laughable, and an insult to everyone's intelligence.

 

3. If Levein wasn't in charge of recruitment - if he didn't have a big role in recruitment - exactly what did his job involve? Anything at all?

 

1. So as I suspected you didn't know but had picked up that point from another thread. Souttar & Djoum were unavailable from the starting 11. Also you'll note from your cut and paste that we'd beaten Dundee the week before another good win.

 

2. Stop twisting it...you clearly state you wanted Levein to step in, a bizarre statement in its own right. Now you've moved on to Ann Budges press release 

 

3. How many times is this going to be trotted out. It's a myth perpetuated by those on a point scoring mission.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

4 minutes ago, Bez said:

 

Nobody thinks he had NO say. Some of us however understand that the head coaches had more say, and he was assisting them.

 

Not a chance that's true. Ridiculous.

 

It would have been an unprecedented set-up. He'd be one of if not the only DoF/Sporting Directors in world football to have a first team coach have final say on transfers. 

 

He should have had a say in transfers. It's crucial for succession planning, which CL himself highlighted on Budgement Day.