Craig Levein: A Psychological Explanation

[Coco]

Our supposed 2 forwards in Prague were playing on the touchlines and mostly in our half.  It was an effort to play defence vs attack in the hope of getting a draw.  

 

I wonder how the Board will react to Levein's own end of year review.  How many KPIs will have been hit this year?  The important DOF one of ordering the kit as Robbie needed?

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

Not a chance that's true. Ridiculous.

 

It would have been an unprecedented set-up. He'd be one of if not the only DoF/Sporting Directors in world football to have a first team coach have final say on transfers. 

 

He should have had a say in transfers. It's crucial for succession planning, which CL himself highlighted on Budgement Day. 

 

He did have a say. He just did not take the biggest say, and instead let the head coaches make their own decisions. This has been covered in many interviews. You think it’s all lies I take it? 

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Just now, Bez said:

 

He did have a say. He just did not take the biggest say, and instead let the head coaches make their own decisions. This has been covered in many interviews. You think it’s all lies I take it? 

 

He had final say, no doubt about it. Don't care what people said in public. Name we one other club in Europe with a Sporting Director that lets the coach buy the players. If we did do that, it also makes a mockery of Levein's spiel on Budgement Day that having a DoF stops the practice of managers coming in and wanting their own team. How would our setup the way you're describing it have prevented that?

[sadj]

3 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

Not a chance that's true. Ridiculous.

 

It would have been an unprecedented set-up. He'd be one of if not the only DoF/Sporting Directors in world football to have a first team coach have final say on transfers. 

 

He should have had a say in transfers. It's crucial for succession planning, which CL himself highlighted on Budgement Day. 

Yes it is and as i said he deserves to be looked at and criticised for allowing inexperienced managers too much say be it complacency from overachieving early or  a belief that IC was going to move us to the next level he got away from how DoF should work. I think he has learned from that and hopefully we will see progression. 

 

Example being Sammon not wanted by Levein , wanted by Robbie , Robbie got what he wanted. Even if that was due to a persuasive argument it went against how it should be. 

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

He had final say, no doubt about it. Don't care what people said in public. Name we one other club in Europe with a Sporting Director that lets the coach buy the players. If we did do that, it also makes a mockery of Levein's spiel on Budgement Day that having a DoF stops the practice of managers coming in and wanting their own team. How would our setup the way you're describing it have prevented that?

 

A simple ‘yes I think Budge, Levein and Neilson were lying’ would have done.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Just now, sadj said:

Yes it is and as i said he deserves to be looked at and criticised for allowing inexperienced managers too much say be it complacency from overachieving early or  a belief that IC was going to move us to the next level he got away from how DoF should work. I think he has learned from that and hopefully we will see progression. 

 

Example being Sammon not wanted by Levein , wanted by Robbie , Robbie got what he wanted. Even if that was due to a persuasive argument it went against how it should be. 

Exactly. Final say can still be "okay I trust your judgement on this".

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Just now, Bez said:

 

A simple ‘yes I think Budge, Levein and Neilson were lying’ would have done.

 

So you must think they were lying on Budgement Day when Levein said there would be no need now for new squads when new coaches come in?

[Coco]

Just now, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

He had final say, no doubt about it. Don't care what people said in public. Name we one other club in Europe with a Sporting Director that lets the coach buy the players. If we did do that, it also makes a mockery of Levein's spiel on Budgement Day that having a DoF stops the practice of managers coming in and wanting their own team. How would our setup the way you're describing it have prevented that?

Just like everything else it has been made up as they go along.  The bootroom and succession, Principles of Play, continuity of player as head coaches change, buying players with sell on value, bringing in players at low cost after windows close, a DoF/head coach model all abandoned. 

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

So you must think they were lying on Budgement Day when Levein said there would be no need now for new squads when new coaches come in?

 

No. I think that things can change after a statement of intent is issued, but actions cannot change after they have taken place. 

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

Google psychology from a Google football fan. 

 

 

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

3 minutes ago, Bez said:

 

No. I think that things can change after a statement of intent is issued, but actions cannot change after they have taken place. 

Is that your answer? ?

 

Put it this way, if Levein does have final say then, yes, they've all lied about it. But good, he should have final say. It's his job. If he doesn't have final say then his position is a joke and the club have royally ****ed up. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Eldar Hadzimehmedovic

[Gizmo]

28 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Actually, yes there are. If a team sets out as we did on Sunday and makes no effort to win the game - rather, to defend, defend and defend some more - almost always, it will lose. We weren't playing Barcelona on Sunday. We were playing a dreadful, mired in crisis Rangers: who had a crap, dodgy as hell goalkeeper; the utterly horrendous Russell bombscare Martin at the back; a miles past it Graham Dorrans patrolling midfield; and a support disgusted by their team and club. And we were scared... of that! 

 

Elsewhere, you highlight our chronic lack of creative players, who don't have that spark necessary to open up a football match. Which calls to mind a couple of things:

 

1. How did we crush Celtic 4-0 despite that? Oh yes, it's because Levein changed the gameplan because of injuries; circumstances forced him to have a go. 

 

2. Who's been in charge of recruitment of our players for the last 4 years? Oh yes, Levein again. What a mystifying coincidence that the players we've recruited have largely matched his ultra-conservative approach to the game. 

 

3. When Cathro was failing to prepare us properly during pre-season, what exactly were the Director of Football and coaching staff doing? Were they all on holiday, or something?

1) So what, does it not count? Have you missed our home form set against the backdrop of major infrastructure changes?

 

2) Levein sanctioned the signings by his head coaches. Hence why there is no similarity to Cathro's squad from Neilson's. 

3) How did they know the pre-season was failing until we were tested? Telepathy? Quantum Tunneling/fortune telling? 

Shit or not we were a post away from drawing at Ibrox. Your nit-picking response to my well-argued rebuttal of your amateur psychobabble rather suggests I hit the mark. 

 

[Big Slim Stylee]

If you’re all happy to lap up shite cod psychology from an English as a Foreign Language teacher, by all means carry on.?

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

If you’re all happy to lap up shite cod psychology from an English as a Foreign Language teacher, by all means carry on.?

 

[Haken]

Good thread; will read again.

 

What I've picked up - perhaps incorrectly - is that Shaun has an intellectual rather than an emotional attachment to Hearts.  I have no difficulty with that position.  Why then (allegedly) go on a maddies forum of the seethiest  seethers under the nom de plume (allegedly) of Levein Out?   

[CJGJ]

1 minute ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

If you’re all happy to lap up shite cod psychology from an English as a Foreign Language teacher, by all means carry on.?

Well said..cannot believe some on this thread are taking the side of a man who doesn't know where he lives half the time

[NANOJAMBO]

13 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

He had final say, no doubt about it. Don't care what people said in public. Name we one other club in Europe with a Sporting Director that lets the coach buy the players. If we did do that, it also makes a mockery of Levein's spiel on Budgement Day that having a DoF stops the practice of managers coming in and wanting their own team. How would our setup the way you're describing it have prevented that?

Good post. I think the reality is the club scouted and (as was clearly stated in the case of Robbie) the head coach had final say from the array of dross presented to him .  However Levein never explicitly said this - he created the impression that Robbie had the final say, pure and simple.  But then we have folks on here saying that post Robbie, it was Cathro's fault because he got  what he wanted , it was his signings - which is just ridiculous IMO. 

[Haken]

2 minutes ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

If you’re all happy to lap up shite cod psychology from an English as a Foreign Language teacher, by all means carry on.?

As another poste is fond of doing of late, Boom!

[Hugh Watt]

My bugbear which I've not seen commented on much is that since the Levein arrival, he has systematically disposed of playing with wingers.  And anyone who does have any inkling of being a proper winger gets immediately made a wing-back and shunted to the wing of his weaker side which in turn forces him to run inside towards the penalty spot rather than the outside to the byeline to put in a cross.  

 

The Motherwell cup game - he brought on Milinkovic at halftime on his good side (right wing), he ran their left back ragged for 10 minutes and it was that side where we got the goal from.  Once we got the goal and were level, Levein switched him to the left wing where he couldn't cut inside the right back, he became in-effective and we fell out of the game... Its those sort of 'tactical' disasters that really rip my knitting with Levein.  

 

Yes you can say the best teams in the world play with wingers on their non-preferred wings, but usually when they do they will be able to kick with BOTH feet and go outside as well as inside.  We seem to be intent on signing players who can only kick with one foot.  It must be a piece of p!ss for opposing managers to line up their sides against a Levein team, knowing that they won't be troubled by wing-play and also knowing that if you go a goal up you've won the game because our tactical genius of a manager never has a plan B up his sleeve for when things go wrong?...

 

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

6 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

1) So what, does it not count? Have you missed our home form set against the backdrop of major infrastructure changes?

 

2) Levein sanctioned the signings by his head coaches. Hence why there is no similarity to Cathro's squad from Neilson's. 

3) How did they know the pre-season was failing until we were tested? Telepathy? Quantum Tunneling/fortune telling? 

Shit or not we were a post away from drawing at Ibrox. Your nit-picking response to my well-argued rebuttal of your amateur psychobabble rather suggests I hit the mark. 

 

So we don't employ fitness coaches - or if we we do, they weren't doing their jobs ? According to that point of view, we wouldn't know how good or bad the fitness was until "we were tested".  That is just nonsense. 

[sadj]

21 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

Exactly. Final say can still be "okay I trust your judgement on this".

I don’t think anyone is saying otherwise. Backing the managers is commendable if unfortunately its been flawed for us. It was said at the AGM the transfer policy had been changed and in january we saw that. We shouldnt be where we are but we are so lets see what the summer brings then see if pitchforks are required. I personally hope it settles down we move forward get back on track and CL moves back upstairs. AB said money wouldnt be handed out wily nily after our previous 12months it wasnt and we made good acquisitions. Hopefully between AB and CL lessons are learned.

[Alex Kintner]

21 minutes ago, Haken said:

Good thread; will read again.

 

What I've picked up - perhaps incorrectly - is that Shaun has an intellectual rather than an emotional attachment to Hearts.  I have no difficulty with that position.  Why then (allegedly) go on a maddies forum of the seethiest  seethers under the nom de plume (allegedly) of Levein Out?   

Translation please

[Haken]

4 minutes ago, Frank1874 said:

Translation please

Que?

[sadj]

14 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Good post. I think the reality is the club scouted and (as was clearly stated in the case of Robbie) the head coach had final say from the array of dross presented to him .  However Levein never explicitly said this - he created the impression that Robbie had the final say, pure and simple.  But then we have folks on here saying that post Robbie, it was Cathro's fault because he got  what he wanted , it was his signings - which is just ridiculous IMO. 

How about the idea of Robbie goes and says I want this style of player , scouts/agents find said types Robbie says I want that one. CL says I dont think thats a good idea. Discussion follows Robbie makes a good case. CL says ok against my judgement we will get him in. 

 

Ian Cathro comes in and says I want to play this way I want to take us to the next level. Now to do this I need this this and that. Agents/Scouts identify players in the mold required. Ian Cathro says yup i want him him and him , I dont want that player in our squad sell him. CL again says why...IC says ok this is why and this is what we will achieve. CL says again its against my judgement I think we have certain players here who can do that. IC says no I want these ones and those binned that will get us to summer. Tzolios and Isma were touted highly when we got them. Performances didnt match but maybe the players we had last year with the correct manager would of succeeded. 

 

Summer comes club says that was a disaster IC says to sort it I need this this and this as we discussed in January. Club then gets the scouts/agents to get a list of players in the style Cathro wants and affordable/available Cathro says he wants those ones to play his style. CL says ok weve committed to this now we have to do that. 

 

Cathro says this is how i want the players trained ball work over fitness as we will play teams off the park. Get into the season it goes tits.  We now have a lot of players we dont want as they were ICs choices and we have to redress the lack of balance as his squad was designed one way. 

 

Criticism is due as I said but same time weve backed managers and believed in them. Now we have to say no this is what we are doing you work under our way or not at all

 

 

[Alex Kintner]

25 minutes ago, Haken said:

Que?

 

What does your post mean?

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 hour ago, Rudy T said:

 

1. So as I suspected you didn't know but had picked up that point from another thread. Souttar & Djoum were unavailable from the starting 11. Also you'll note from your cut and paste that we'd beaten Dundee the week before another good win.

 

2. Stop twisting it...you clearly state you wanted Levein to step in, a bizarre statement in its own right. Now you've moved on to Ann Budges press release 

 

3. How many times is this going to be trotted out. It's a myth perpetuated by those on a point scoring mission.

How many times can the bollocks contained in point regurgitated?. Can we just put Robbie's interview on a stickie and direct the regurgitators to read it every time they wheel it out? I suppose in fairness this particular slaver has been too busy clogging up some other message boards with his pretentious psychoanalysis to keep up to date with what goes on at Hearts.

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

1 hour ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

If you’re all happy to lap up shite cod psychology from an English as a Foreign Language teacher, by all means carry on.?

 

[Victorian]

[shaun.lawson]

1 hour ago, Rudy T said:

2. Stop twisting it...you clearly state you wanted Levein to step in, a bizarre statement in its own right.

 

Eh? When? 

[i wish jj was my dad]

25 minutes ago, sadj said:

How about the idea of Robbie goes and says I want this style of player , scouts/agents find said types Robbie says I want that one. CL says I dont think thats a good idea. Discussion follows Robbie makes a good case. CL says ok against my judgement we will get him in. 

 

Ian Cathro comes in and says I want to play this way I want to take us to the next level. Now to do this I need this this and that. Agents/Scouts identify players in the mold required. Ian Cathro says yup i want him him and him , I dont want that player in our squad sell him. CL again says why...IC says ok this is why and this is what we will achieve. CL says again its against my judgement I think we have certain players here who can do that. IC says no I want these ones and those binned that will get us to summer. Tzolios and Isma were touted highly when we got them. Performances didnt match but maybe the players we had last year with the correct manager would of succeeded. 

 

Summer comes club says that was a disaster IC says to sort it I need this this and this as we discussed in January. Club then gets the scouts/agents to get a list of players in the style Cathro wants and affordable/available Cathro says he wants those ones to play his style. CL says ok weve committed to this now we have to do that. 

 

Cathro says this is how i want the players trained ball work over fitness as we will play teams off the park. Get into the season it goes tits.  We now have a lot of players we dont want as they were ICs choices and we have to redress the lack of balance as his squad was designed one way. 

 

Criticism is due as I said but same time weve backed managers and believed in them. Now we have to say no this is what we are doing you work under our way or not at all

 

 

Good post. A shame you have to spell it out so plainly for the hard of thinking.

 

Much easier for them to think CL has been hiding in Budge Towers dictating orders to his lackies. And hiding from the media like the gutless shitebag he is. 

[shaun.lawson]

1 hour ago, Gizmo said:

Shit or not we were a post away from drawing at Ibrox.

 

Jesus Christ. So now we're taking comfort in narrow (on the scoreboard) defeats after playing to lose almost the entire match? Unreal. 

[shaun.lawson]

1 hour ago, Gizmo said:

3) How did they know the pre-season was failing until we were tested? Telepathy? Quantum Tunneling/fortune telling? 

 

I'm sorry. WTF? 

 

IT'S THEIR JOB. 

[Beast Boy]

43 minutes ago, Frank1874 said:

Translation please

 

Lawson posts on another forum under the name ‘Levein Out’.

[shaun.lawson]

9 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Can we just put Robbie's interview on a stickie and direct the regurgitators to read it every time they wheel it out? 

 

See Eldar's comments above. Levein is apparently the first Sporting Director in the history of Sporting Directors to not do what Sporting Directors do at every other club they're employed at. Which renders the time he had as Sporting Director a total waste.

[shaun.lawson]

1 hour ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

Google psychology from a Google football fan. 

 

 

 

Why would someone already with an account on here open another one just to troll other Hearts fans? Weird behaviour. 

[Alex Kintner]

4 minutes ago, Bez said:

 

Lawson posts on another forum under the name ‘Levein Out’.

 

That makes sense now, cheers

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

3 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Why would someone already with an account on here open another one just to troll other Hearts fans? Weird behaviour. 

 

I have multiple accounts? Get a grip of yourself. 

 

Why would someone open an account here and lie about having a game on dvd and shagging his nanny? Weird behaviour. 

 

Are you going to answer the questions from the other day about attending football matches? 

 

You are not a hearts fan and never will be. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Sir Vladimir of Romanov

[Beast Boy]

4 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Why would someone already with an account on here open another one just to troll other Hearts fans? Weird behaviour. 

 

Oh? That’s interesting... It’s not often you’ll see me say this, but: Shaun, Id love to hear more.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Bez

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

 

I have multiple accounts? Get a grip of yourself. 

 

Are you going to answer the questions from the other day yet? 

 

You are not a hearts fan and never will be. 

 

I know who you are, I know who you arrrrre...

 

Sir Vladimir of Romanov, I know who you are. 

 

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

1 minute ago, Bez said:

 

Oh? That’s interesting... It’s not often you’ll see me say this, but: Shaun, Id love to hear more.

 

 

 

Me 2 

[Rudy T]

14 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Eh? When? 

You said...

 

"3. When Cathro was failing to prepare us properly during pre-season, what exactly were the Director of Football and coaching staff doing? Were they all on holiday, or something?"

 

Clearly indicating you would expect him to step in.

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

Just now, shaun.lawson said:

 

I know who you are, I know who you arrrrre...

 

Sir Vladimir of Romanov, I know who you are. 

 

 

Do tell then jackanory. 

 

You're well known for making stuff up so this should be good. 

[shaun.lawson]

3 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

You said...

 

"3. When Cathro was failing to prepare us properly during pre-season, what exactly were the Director of Football and coaching staff doing? Were they all on holiday, or something?"

 

Clearly indicating you would expect him to step in.

 

Nope. Clearly indicating I would expect him to have not allowed this nonsense to have happened in the first place. Otherwise, what was the point of him and the coaches? 

[Hendricks]

There appears to be absolutely nothing that Levein should be held accountable for. Glad thats been cleared up by those who care more about his failing career than they do about the best interests of Heart of Midlothian Football Club. 

[jambovambo]

Shaun - you certainly seek ... and gain ... attention. 

[Victorian]

4/9  Meltdown and resignation essay.

11/8  Lawson smackdown.

[shaun.lawson]

4 minutes ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

 

Do tell then jackanory. 

 

You're well known for making stuff up so this should be good. 

 

You joined this forum in late 2017. In one of your very first posts to me, you randomly mentioned Norwich and hibs.net. Subsequent posts of yours have employed all sorts of labels and attacks used against me by others many years ago. 

 

For someone who supposedly only joined late last year, you have an impossible level of knowledge of my past, which can only be explained by you having actually been on here for many many many years.

 

Your attacks on me for being an overseas fan are - hint hint - particularly ironic. 

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

Just now, Victorian said:

4/9  Meltdown and resignation essay.

11/8  Lawson smackdown.

 

How many words?  Has the server been stress tested for 40k word posts? 

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Victorian said:

4/9  Meltdown and resignation essay.

11/8  Lawson smackdown.

 

Odds on him unveiling Sir Vlad?

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, jambovambo said:

Shaun - you certainly seek ... and gain ... attention. 

 

I started a thread on a football forum. Shame on me. And then, when others demanded information about my past Spanish Inquistion-style, I was slagged off for initially not answering them, because I hate it when threads become about me.

 

It's not me who turns them into that. It's others.