Goncalves - some Hearts fans in racist abuse claims

[GiantJambo]

I don't think that racist abuse was the real reason Isma left (I'm sure it was to do with money), but I don't doubt for a moment that when 15,000 excitable human beings get together, a minority will let the rest down. I've actually never heard racist abuse where I sit (I've heard plenty of offensive s**t, but not racism, strangely) and Isma's work-rate was always respected. And I notice he didn't hear it himself – he said it was his family who did.

 

It's all irrelevant. I'm sure it happens everywhere even though there's no place for it. But I thought Levein's response was class – he was embarrassed Isma didn't feel able to speak to him about it. That's important, because one day in the future someone is going to get the same again and the club will be better prepared.

 

Or it might be that the next time is when some gay footballer finally feels it's time to come out. That "All Hibees are gay" is no better than Isma experienced.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

4 minutes ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

 

it's all over the MSN

 

arseholes.

 

 

Yes, they are tossers but I think the public understand the difference.

[super_vlad]

1 hour ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

 

By the way, I don't want anyone to think this is a childish "lol his mum's a slag, lol" jibe. Factually, she "gets around". Factually.

 

It perhaps explains some of his impotent rage.

 

https://shesahomewrecker.com/elaine-tant-edinburgh-united-kingdom/

[GiantJambo]

4 minutes ago, heartmussel said:

"Stevenson generosity(which I applaud)"

On which subject, despite being a Jambo I pitched up towards Stevenson's testimonial because he's always struck me as the model professional footballer and a decent guy. Deserved a Cup win. Glad to see I judged him correctly.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

4 minutes ago, GiantJambo said:

On which subject, despite being a Jambo I pitched up towards Stevenson's testimonial because he's always struck me as the model professional footballer and a decent guy. Deserved a Cup win. Glad to see I judged him correctly.

[Beast Boy]

10 minutes ago, super_vlad said:

 

https://shesahomewrecker.com/elaine-tant-edinburgh-united-kingdom/

 

???????????

[dsk1210]

36 minutes ago, super_vlad said:

 

https://shesahomewrecker.com/elaine-tant-edinburgh-united-kingdom/

 

Seems like being an arsehole runs in the family.

[stirlingshirejambo]

1 hour ago, GiantJambo said:

On which subject, despite being a Jambo I pitched up towards Stevenson's testimonial because he's always struck me as the model professional footballer and a decent guy. Deserved a Cup win. Glad to see I judged him correctly.

I donated a couple of tickets as he seems a good guy, was donating a whack to charity and deserved it for staying s long at that hellhole

 

How he deserved a cup win having already won one I fail to see though.

 

no player deserves a cup win least of all a Hibbie

 

Think you are at it

 

[Sarah O]

1 hour ago, GiantJambo said:

On which subject, despite being a Jambo I pitched up towards Stevenson's testimonial because he's always struck me as the model professional footballer and a decent guy. Deserved a Cup win. Glad to see I judged him correctly.

 

[Sarah O]

Just trawled twitter to find that KT chap.  Good grief - what a tosser.

 

 

[SpruceBringsteen]

1 hour ago, GiantJambo said:

On which subject, despite being a Jambo I pitched up towards Stevenson's testimonial because he's always struck me as the model professional footballer and a decent guy. Deserved a Cup win. Glad to see I judged him correctly.

 

[Coburg Hearts]

5 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

"2 Tories"...on a thread about bigotry eh? You can't pick and choose who to be bigoted against pal. 

Well said.

[Coburg Hearts]

5 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Isn't maybe just a wee bit OTT to compare what happened to sexual assaults on children by priests and adult gangs? For what is worth though i detest racism i don't feel I or my club deserves to feel ashamed and I certainly don't. The fact that some hearts fans are racists and act as such doesn't remotely surprise me. I have heard the Edinburgh is Wonderful song often enough. I have also heard racist stuff from the fans of other clubs. All clubs have a racist element in their support. Yes as a club and support we need to do more to eradicate racism and sectarianism but why should any of us deserve to feel ashamed? Other of course than the culprits who know no shame.

Again, well said.

[maroonexile]

Some of our support are a joke, look at the posts above for a clue why.

 

Slagging folk you’ve never mets family on an online forum, I can guarantee not one of those posters would say boo to him in real life.

 

This is the problem, folk in our support act like knobs and then the reaction on JKB outs others as knobs.

 

How about not being a racist pr*ck while simultaneously not insulting random’s families from the comfort of your keyboard.

 

What an embarrassment, and shows people to be as bad as this clown.

[Rudy T]

2 hours ago, GiantJambo said:

On which subject, despite being a Jambo I pitched up towards Stevenson's testimonial because he's always struck me as the model professional footballer and a decent guy. Deserved a Cup win. Glad to see I judged him correctly.

 

Theres no words really.

[John mcCartney]

spruce`s gif said it all imo

[Section G The Place To Be]

12 hours ago, GiantJambo said:

On which subject, despite being a Jambo I pitched up towards Stevenson's testimonial because he's always struck me as the model professional footballer and a decent guy. Deserved a Cup win. Glad to see I judged him correctly.

 

 Not even trying to hide it now. 

[HopeDiouf]

I see Michael Smith's interview in the EEN says he's spoken to other players and they are surprised.  He repeatedly uses the phrase "IF this has happened".  Good to see not everyone is presuming a claim must be 100% true.

 

"Smith said Goncalves kept it to himself: “I’ve had a chat with a few of the boys and even they didn’t know.“The first I heard of it was yesterday, so if it has happened Isma has kept it under his hat and to be honest if it has happened, the vast majority of Hearts fans are not like that and it’s one or two narrow-minded people who have done it.“It’s disrespectful and there is no space for it in football.”He added: “It’s for him to deal with. People deal with things in different ways. If it has happened then he kept it under his hat and it’s up to him and his family to deal with it. “The club are dealing with it in their own way, and will find out if it has happened and will deal with it.
"

[i8hibsh]

4 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

I see Michael Smith's interview in the EEN says he's spoken to other players and they are surprised.  He repeatedly uses the phrase "IF this has happened".  Good to see not everyone is presuming a claim must be 100% true.

 

 

Any sane, impartial, rational and balanced individual with no agenda would always use the word 'if' when faced with one person's accusation.

 

But of course there are people on here utterly desperate to not come across as anything bar progressive.

 

But yeah they are all about fairness.

[Ray Gin]

11 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Any sane, impartial, rational and balanced individual with no agenda would always use the word 'if' when faced with one person's accusation.

 

But of course there are people on here utterly desperate to not come across as anything bar progressive.

 

But yeah they are all about fairness.

 

There are also people who have heard it in person, so have no need for the word 'if'.

 

[i8hibsh]

16 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

There are also people who have heard it in person, so have no need for the word 'if'.

 

 

Then I say to them 'if'.

[Ray Gin]

3 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Then I say to them 'if'.

 

If what?

 

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Then I say to them 'if'.

So you think that the club can, and should, just ignore it?

 

[i8hibsh]

10 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

So you think that the club can, and should, just ignore it?

 

 

Dave I have explicitly said throughout this thread that there should be at least a private inquiry.  Someone has made an accusation so it deserves that.  It, at no point should be taken at face value.  Is Mrs Goncalves some divine being? It should be looked at impartially and be taken seriously.  For some utterly bizarre reason people are demanding we take it as fact and start the criminal proceedings.  Seriously, in what way is this fair?  The likelihood is that it can't be proven or disproved as it is in the past and there is no real concrete way of knowing. We can tighten up our vigilance going forward. My, however many posts on this thread are just me vehemently against taking one person's word - it is utterly ridiculous and unfair to do that.  This whole why would she make it up angers me immensely.  Race cards are falsely played all the time -  that angers me just as much as the racist *****! Seriously. 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

12 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

If what?

 

 

If their story is true and pertinent to the actual fact in question.

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

If their story is true and pertinent to the actual fact in question.

 

So you accept that it is a fact? Finally.

 

[i8hibsh]

3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

So you accept that it is a fact? Finally.

 

 

Ha nope.

 

'Fact' refers to the crime.  Geez man do you now watch the Crime and Investigation Channel?

 

 

[i8hibsh]

I want to ask you a question Ray Gin if you don't mind.

 

If a woman goes to the police and says she had her bum felt in the street by Ray Gin 2 weeks ago would it be fair for you to be named shamed and arrested no questions asked? 

[Dazzle]

9 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Dave I have explicitly said throughout this thread that there should be at least a private inquiry.  Someone has made an accusation so it deserves that.  It, at no point should be taken at face value.  Is Mrs Goncalves some divine being? It should be looked at impartially and be taken seriously.  For some utterly bizarre reason people are demanding we take it as fact and start the criminal proceedings.  Seriously, in what way is this fair?  The likelihood is that it can't be proven or disproved as it is in the past and there is no real concrete way of knowing. We can tighten up our vigilance going forward. My, however many posts on this thread are just me vehemently against taking one person's word - it is utterly ridiculous and unfair to do that.  This whole why would she make it up angers me immensely.  Race cards are falsely played all the time -  that angers me just as much as the racist *****! Seriously. 

 

 

 

I agree with you. I have yet to find out exactly what she claims was said in her presence or to her . Does Mrs Goncalves speak English well enough, did she perhaps mis-translate in her head what she heard ? 

[Notts1874]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

I want to ask you a question Ray Gin if you don't mind.

 

If a woman goes to the police and says she had her bum felt in the street by Ray Gin 2 weeks ago would it be fair for you to be named shamed and arrested no questions asked? 

Nobody has been arrested you drama queen.

[davemclaren]

9 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Dave I have explicitly said throughout this thread that there should be at least a private inquiry.  Someone has made an accusation so it deserves that.  It, at no point should be taken at face value.  Is Mrs Goncalves some divine being? It should be looked at impartially and be taken seriously.  For some utterly bizarre reason people are demanding we take it as fact and start the criminal proceedings.  Seriously, in what way is this fair?  The likelihood is that it can't be proven or disproved as it is in the past and there is no real concrete way of knowing. We can tighten up our vigilance going forward. My, however many posts on this thread are just me vehemently against taking one person's word - it is utterly ridiculous and unfair to do that.  This whole why would she make it up angers me immensely.  Race cards are falsely played all the time -  that angers me just as much as the racist *****! Seriously. 

 

 

I think it would be disastrous, in many ways, if the club were to be seen to doubt that it happened without some hard evidence. I also think that the club will be conducting an inquiry to try and acertain what actually happened. All we can do is tighten up future vigilance and focus on educating people more as to what isn’t, and is, acceptable behaviour. 

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, Notts1874 said:

Nobody has been arrested you drama queen.

 

 

Let us make no bones about this, I simply can't stress this enough.  If she named someone they would a) be named, shamed and tried in the JKB courts.

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

I want to ask you a question Ray Gin if you don't mind.

 

If a woman goes to the police and says she had her bum felt in the street by Ray Gin 2 weeks ago would it be fair for you to be named shamed and arrested no questions asked? 

 

Nobody has been arrested, named or shamed, how is that relevant?

 

Your hypothetical question also fails to factor in multiple witnesses to similar incidents on multiple occassions.

 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

I think it would be disastrous, in many ways, if the club were to be seen to doubt that it happened without some hard evidence. I also think that the club will be conducting an inquiry to try and acertain what actually happened. All we can do is tighten up future vigilance and focus on educating people more as to what isn’t, and is, acceptable behaviour. 

 

 

Not sure any single fan would discourage the internal inquiry.  Seriously why would you. 

[Notts1874]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Let us make no bones about this, I simply can't stress this enough.  If she named someone they would a) be named, shamed and tried in the JKB courts.

What the hell are you on about now.........the JKB courts

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Nobody has been arrested, named or shamed, how is that relevant?

 

Your hypothetical question also fails to factor in multiple witnesses to similar incidents on multiple occassions.

 

 

 

 

 

It is not hypothetical RG, I saw you do it ya randy bugger

 

 

 

 

[jr ewing]

So have we narrowed it down yet? Where ,when ,who?

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, jr ewing said:

So have we narrowed it down yet? Where ,when ,who?

 

 

Was Professor Plum in the Main Stand with the Candlestick.

[Ray Gin]

Just now, i8hibsh said:

 

 

It is not hypothetical RG, I saw you do it ya randy bugger

 

 

 

 

 

The difference is that here there is no benefit to us lying and making it up, whereas for you it serves the purpose of backing up your arguement.

 

No Hearts fans actually WANT this to be true. There's nothing to be gained from pretending that we heard racist abuse from our own fans.

[i8hibsh]

2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

The difference is that here there is no benefit to us lying and making it up, whereas for you it serves the purpose of backing up your arguement.

 

No Hearts fans actually WANT this to be true. There's nothing to be gained from pretending that we heard racist abuse from our own fans.

 

 

I've clearly stated that it could well be true but to suggest that every racial abuse claim has validity is an absolute absurdity.

[jr ewing]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Was Professor Plum in the Main Stand with the Candlestick.

Probably as close to an answer that we're going to get.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Any sane, impartial, rational and balanced individual with no agenda would always use the word 'if' when faced with one person's accusation.

 

But of course there are people on here utterly desperate to not come across as anything bar progressive.

 

But yeah they are all about fairness.

 

 

Not if you heard it?

 

Then from that person's point of view it happened.

 

I never heard isma getting racist abuse directly, but I seen and heard Hearts fans singing the Edinburgh song with the racist words.

 

I have no doubt we have racists in our support, I can't confirm like smith what isma is said is true tho.

 

 

 

[XB52]

Is it not about time this thread was locked?  Time to let the club see what they can find out from Isma and we can concentrate on Ross County

[i8hibsh]

3 minutes ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

 

 

Not if you heard it?

 

Then from that person's point of view it happened.

 

I never heard isma getting racist abuse directly, but I seen and heard Hearts fans singing the Edinburgh song with the racist words.

 

I have no doubt we have racists in our support, I can't confirm like smith what isma is said is true tho.

 

 

 

 

 

Our fanbase represents society so yes of course there are racists - who is going to deny.  This  has nothing to do with I heard the 'Edinburgh' song at an away game 5 months ago - it has to do with incidents that Mrs Goncalves mentions and only them.  No other incident of racial abuse is pertinent in this case . That is exactly how a court would see it also.  If this thread was "have you heard or seen racism at a Hearts game" it would be JKB's longest ever thread and there would be no arguing as we would all agree.  It is however about certain incidents and only these incidents.

 

 

[i8hibsh]

4 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Is it not about time this thread was locked?  Time to let the club see what they can find out from Isma and we can concentrate on Ross County

 

This thread should have been put out it's misery after about page 2.

[wavydavy]

32 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

I see Michael Smith's interview in the EEN says he's spoken to other players and they are surprised.  He repeatedly uses the phrase "IF this has happened".  Good to see not everyone is presuming a claim must be 100% true.

 

"Smith said Goncalves kept it to himself: “I’ve had a chat with a few of the boys and even they didn’t know.“The first I heard of it was yesterday, so if it has happened Isma has kept it under his hat and to be honest if it has happened, the vast majority of Hearts fans are not like that and it’s one or two narrow-minded people who have done it.“It’s disrespectful and there is no space for it in football.”He added: “It’s for him to deal with. People deal with things in different ways. If it has happened then he kept it under his hat and it’s up to him and his family to deal with it. “The club are dealing with it in their own way, and will find out if it has happened and will deal with it.
"

 

I think the crux of the matter here is why did Isma not say anything about this to either his fellow team-mates or the Club?

 

It is clearly unacceptable that he and or his family have had to listen to any verbal abuse however it would have been nice for him to have given a reason why he never reported it before leaving the club.

 

There would have been a much greater chance of the club being able to find the culprits whilst his family were in attendance at the games as they could have pointed out who the perpetrators were whereas now that is very unlikley to happen.

 

For that reason I think he has made it seem a bit like sour grapes in a sense by not saying anything before he left the club but choosing to give an interview to the EEN.

 

He is bound to realise that this will discredit the club he has said he enjoyed playing for.

 

The other point that did cross my mind was that with a story like this I would have thought that a decent journalist would have gone to the other Black Players at the club and asked them if they have experienced similar type of abuse from Hearts fans or any fans for that matter.

 

Players like Bauben and Djoum get plenty criticism on here but have they too had verbal abuse at games ? Will the Club have asked them ? Or are they keeping it to themselves as well or have they never experienced it?

[Bazzas right boot]

13 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Our fanbase represents society so yes of course there are racists - who is going to deny.  This  has nothing to do with I heard the 'Edinburgh' song at an away game 5 months ago - it has to do with incidents that Mrs Goncalves mentions and only them.  No other incident of racial abuse is pertinent in this case . That is exactly how a court would see it also.  If this thread was "have you heard or seen racism at a Hearts game" it would be JKB's longest ever thread and there would be no arguing as we would all agree.  It is however about certain incidents and only these incidents.

 

 

 

 

Edinburgh song was  at the recent hibs game...3 weeks ago.

 

This isn't court.

 

Given the fact that I heard the Edinburgh song only 3 weeks ago and we can all agree there are racists in our support and certain posters heard direct abuse at Isma/ his family, then as  you say it is well beyond reasonable doubt that a small group of people within our support are racists and have shouted directly at Isma.

 

If it was court-

 

we  have a witnessed issues like this in the past and very recent past, there is a history of such behaviour

we have several witness's maybe around 20.

the club has even mentioned other incidents it is aware of.

Isma has made a statement. I am sure his family could also back this up

The club apologised- why would we do this if we didn't as a club think it happened?

 

 

It would be the quickest court case ever.

 

Your defence of I can't believe everything you hear would be blown apart by all the above.

 

In fact I am not sure what inlight of all the above what your defence even is.

Questions  may be asked, why  he never brought it up at the time  and  should have reported it through the correct channels at the club at the time. This could in turn be used to question his motives for reporting after he left the club. But tbh that's thin line of defence- You're bitter we sold you, so you are making stuff up....

 

Wouldn't go well.

 

 

 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

6 minutes ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

 

 

Edinburgh song was  at the recent hibs game...3 weeks ago.

 

This isn't court.

 

Given the fact that I heard the Edinburgh song only 3 weeks ago and we can all agree there are racists in our support and certain posters heard direct abuse at Isma/ his family, then as  you say it is well beyond reasonable doubt that a small group of people within our support are racists and have shouted directly at Isma.

 

If it was court-

 

we  have a witnessed issues like this in the past and very recent past, there is a history of such behaviour

we have several witness's maybe around 20.

the club has even mentioned other incidents it is aware of.

Isma has made a statement. I am sure his family could also back this up

The club apologised- why would we do this if we didn't as a club think it happened?

 

 

It would be the quickest court case ever.

 

Your defence of I can't believe everything you hear would be blown apart by all the above.

 

In fact I am not sure what inlight of all the above what your defence even is.

Questions  may be asked, why  he never brought it up at the time  and  should have reported it through the correct channels at the club at the time. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The defence would argue:

 

Do our racists really sit beside and in amongst Ann Budge and the players wives?  I see strong doubt there?

Why was this mentioned only upon player exit.  An unhappy exit at that?

Why did thousands not hear it?

Why have no other 'non white' player brought this to the forefront?

 

Quickest court case ever? I would suggest this not to be the case.

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

6 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

 

The defence would argue:

 

Do our racists really sit beside and in amongst Ann Budge and the players wives?  I see strong doubt there?- not  even a relevant question

Why was this mentioned only upon player exit.  An unhappy exit at that?- yes, I agree

Why did thousands not hear it? at least 20 or so have, plu s him and his family- the club is also aware of other incidents. I also don't think you need thousands of witness's.

Why have no other 'non white' player brought this to the forefront?- irrelevant, but as above  the club is aware of other incidents so that may include other players reporting issues.

 

Quickest court case ever? I would suggest this not to be the case.

 

 

Quickest court case every, the fact that the club has apologised although not a 100% sign of acceptance that it happened, it is   close to acknowledging that it was true.

 

If the club thought it was untrue it would be fighting as much as you are. They are not. Very telling.

 

 

6 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

 

[Ray Gin]

23 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I think the crux of the matter here is why did Isma not say anything about this to either his fellow team-mates or the Club?

 

It is clearly unacceptable that he and or his family have had to listen to any verbal abuse however it would have been nice for him to have given a reason why he never reported it before leaving the club.

 

There would have been a much greater chance of the club being able to find the culprits whilst his family were in attendance at the games as they could have pointed out who the perpetrators were whereas now that is very unlikley to happen.

 

For that reason I think he has made it seem a bit like sour grapes in a sense by not saying anything before he left the club but choosing to give an interview to the EEN.

 

He is bound to realise that this will discredit the club he has said he enjoyed playing for.

 

The other point that did cross my mind was that with a story like this I would have thought that a decent journalist would have gone to the other Black Players at the club and asked them if they have experienced similar type of abuse from Hearts fans or any fans for that matter.

 

Players like Bauben and Djoum get plenty criticism on here but have they too had verbal abuse at games ? Will the Club have asked them ? Or are they keeping it to themselves as well or have they never experienced it?

 

You haven't done much research have you?

 

Read the news linked in this thread and you'll know that he told six fellow team mates and that Levein has asked the squad and other players have also had issues.