Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, Gambo said: Let's not blame the singing of the IRA version and Hello Hello solely at the door of the Official Singing Section. On Saturday many of the away support in all 3 stands joined in. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, Robbofan99 said: It could well be just them playing the " hard " man in front of those impressionable youngsters but then again as I've stated alarm bells ring when you have much older men hanging around with lads of that age. Maybe I'm just cynical. It’s pretty legitimate to question why these old weirdos would be seeking the adulation of teenage boys anyway. I agree with you mate. Bit creepy imo, and I can understand why some might be worried that they are nonces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: Those alarm bells tend to ring in the minds of certain types of people. Good parents? The sort who don’t want weird old men influencing their kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JyTees Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 46 minutes ago, Frank1874 said: It’s no coincidence that there has been an exponential increase in problems since the forming of the singing section. If dragging the club’s reputation through the mud is the sacrifice required in order to have more “atmosphere” at games then no thanks. Absolute nonsense. It's been no more or less than it's always been when fans start to turn up in numbers. It was only late on in the game on Saturday I even noticed the section were in attendance. They were nowhere near where the majority of the noise was eminating from. But then if you go to the games, you'd know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, JyTees said: Absolute nonsense. It's been no more or less than it's always been when fans start to turn up in numbers. It was only late on in the game on Saturday I even noticed the section were in attendance. They were nowhere near where the majority of the noise was eminating from. But then if you go to the games, you'd know this. Last season at Motherewell , cup match we had a huge support that day as well, some silly songs that day , still no excuse though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Bez said: Good parents? The sort who don’t want weird old men influencing their kids? Or people who trawl the internet for things to flag up as alarming, and then batter out a few accusations under an anonymous username. It is not legitimate to make those accusations at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbofan99 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: Those alarm bells tend to ring in the minds of certain types of people. Yes people who aren't niave and are rightly suspicious of interactions between young kids and much older males . So called " hard men " in football can be abusers you know . Recently there have been various cases comin to the fore . Better being cautious than letting those weirdos continue . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbofan99 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: Or people who trawl the internet for things to flag up as alarming, and then batter out a few accusations under an anonymous username. It is not legitimate to make those accusations at all. You live in a 1970s bubble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgeJambo Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 As long as the SFA do not punish for Sectarian Songs, this will continue and there is nothing you can do about it. Until the arse cheeks are censored, other clubs will continue following suit, albeit on a far lesser scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbofan99 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, JyTees said: Absolute nonsense. It's been no more or less than it's always been when fans start to turn up in numbers. It was only late on in the game on Saturday I even noticed the section were in attendance. They were nowhere near where the majority of the noise was eminating from. But then if you go to the games, you'd know this. 17 minutes ago, Bez said: Good parents? The sort who don’t want weird old men influencing their kids? Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 28 minutes ago, Gambo said: Let's not blame the singing of the IRA version and Hello Hello solely at the door of the Official Singing Section. On Saturday many of the away support in all 3 stands joined in. Exactly. It's come right back and it's a shame as I thought 10 years ago it had almost disappeared. Probably more to do with societal and political changes in the UK and Scotland over that period, rather than 15 or 20 teenagers. Shame nonetheless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said: As long as the SFA do not punish for Sectarian Songs, this will continue and there is nothing you can do about it. Until the arse cheeks are censored, other clubs will continue following suit, albeit on a far lesser scale Incorrect. Hearts as a club can and will do something about it, at least for home games. Why oh why can't we all sing Hearts songs, I just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Boab said: That's just not true ! There has always been incidents away from home, going back decades. You must have seen them if you travelled away with Hearts. “Increase” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgeJambo Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Just now, XB52 said: Incorrect. Hearts as a club can and will do something about it, at least for home games. Why oh why can't we all sing Hearts songs, I just don't get it. The club will be forever chasing its tail on this matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Frank1874 said: “Increase” There hasn't been an increase, that's the point ! I could name dozens of away games, going back years, where there have been similar, or worse, incidents. Blaming the present young team is wrong ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said: The club will be forever chasing its tail on this matter You can 100% guarantee that come the first cat B home match the club will be watching the songing section like hawks. If they sing political or religious songs or throw any pyrotechnics then they will be out on their ear. It will be pretty easy for the club to idetify the key offenders also ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Boab said: There hasn't been an increase, that's the point ! I could name dozens of away games, going back years, where there have been similar, or worse, incidents. Blaming the present young team is wrong ! Very true Boab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: Or people who trawl the internet for things to flag up as alarming, and then batter out a few accusations under an anonymous username. It is not legitimate to make those accusations at all. Well hey Nookie, I probably have to bow to your experience on this one. You know more about their motives than I do. I assume that based on your assertion that these guys are just acting hard in front of these young men, as opposed to getting hard. I am going to stick to my instincts here however and remain sceptical of how healthy this sort of thing is for the kids they are sniffing around. Wouldn’t want my kids anywhere near these types personally. To each their own though, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Boab said: There hasn't been an increase, that's the point ! I could name dozens of away games, going back years, where there have been similar, or worse, incidents. Blaming the present young team is wrong ! It’s blatantly obvious that it’s been more of an issue in the first few games of this season than it was in the whole of last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Frank1874 said: It’s blatantly obvious that it’s been more of an issue in the first few games of this season than it was in the whole of last season. Aye, on here ! The formation of the singing section has attracted that attention. There were plenty incidents last season because I, and everyone else in attendence, witnessed them. Keep trying, bud, but this is something that has always been there and there is no noticeable increase, just a particular group to point the finger at. As others have already said, most of it due to bigger numbers at away games. Like last season, and the one before that..etc...etc...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, Boab said: Aye, on here ! The formation of the singing section has attracted that attention. There were plenty incidents last season because I, and everyone else in attendence, witnessed them. Keep trying, bud, but this is something that has always been there and there is no noticeable increase, just a particular group to point the finger at. As others have already said, most of it due to bigger numbers at away games. Like last season, and the one before that..etc...etc...! Nah, you can deflect all you want. I attended every home match last season and five or six away games. Can’t remember hearing nearly as many renditions of Hello Hello or songs featuring lyrics about the IRA as I’ve heard at the matches this season. Couldn’t make it on Saturday but others have reported some of the nonsense sung. Never heard anyone mention fans singing about stamping on catholics at any point last season either. I accept there has been and always will be issues. We’ll sadly never get rid of all the bigots. The main issue here is that the club’s official singing section seems to be rife with wannabee neds and Rangers fans and that reflects badly on the club and the fans as a whole. We just don’t need that. They haven’t even had a cat B home match where they’ll all be together in one section yet and they’ve already caused issues with promoting lyrics about the IRA and throwing smoke bombs. The singing section seems to be a vehicle for the older knuckle draggers and easiy influenced young laddies in our support. The previous incarnation went the same way iirc. It’s a shame as it had real potential to be a real positive for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 48 minutes ago, Robbofan99 said: You live in a 1970s bubble Never had the internet in the 1970's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: Never had the internet in the 1970's. True, if they did, maybe the stars of the day like Saville and Gadd would have been captured sooner? We’ll never know, I guess. Pretty shite period of history overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 34 minutes ago, Bez said: Well hey Nookie, I probably have to bow to your experience on this one. You know more about their motives than I do. I assume that based on your assertion that these guys are just acting hard in front of these young men, as opposed to getting hard. I am going to stick to my instincts here however and remain sceptical of how healthy this sort of thing is for the kids they are sniffing around. Wouldn’t want my kids anywhere near these types personally. To each their own though, I suppose. Football has always had this. You would always get kids growing up, looking at how the adults behave at games and thinking "i want to be part of that". It's that progression from sitting with your dad to gravitating towards the Shed. And then you hang around the fringes until you feel more comfortable at being part of it. The older guys would accept you and look after you if you showed the right attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 23 minutes ago, Frank1874 said: Nah, you can deflect all you want. I attended every home match last season and five or six away games. Can’t remember hearing nearly as many renditions of Hello Hello or songs featuring lyrics about the IRA as I’ve heard at the matches this season. Couldn’t make it on Saturday but others have reported some of the nonsense sung. Never heard anyone mention fans singing about stamping on catholics at any point last season either. I accept there has been and always will be issues. We’ll sadly never get rid of all the bigots. The main issue here is that the club’s official singing section seems to be rife with wannabee neds and Rangers fans and that reflects badly on the club and the fans as a whole. We just don’t need that. They haven’t even had a cat B home match where they’ll all be together in one section yet and they’ve already caused issues with promoting lyrics about the IRA and throwing smoke bombs. The singing section seems to be a vehicle for the older knuckle draggers and easiy influenced young laddies in our support. The previous incarnation went the same way iirc. It’s a shame as it had real potential to be a real positive for the club. I'm not deflecting anything, just stating an opinion, based on what I have heard. If you have heard more renditions of these songs this season...only 7 games in competitively...than last season, or the one before that, then I find that very strange. I wouldn't use Tynecastle as a benchmark for that either. They haven't even been in Lower H yet, for crying out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, Boab said: I'm not deflecting anything, just stating an opinion, based on what I have heard. If you have heard more renditions of these songs this season...only 7 games in competitively...than last season, or the one before that, then I find that very strange. I wouldn't use Tynecastle as a benchmark for that either. They haven't even been in Lower H yet, for crying out loud. I think many people are making a point of listening and looking out for that kind of stuff this season, due to the creation of this singing section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Robbofan99 said: It could well be just them playing the " hard " man in front of those impressionable youngsters but then again as I've stated alarm bells ring when you have much older men hanging around with lads of that age. Maybe I'm just cynical. I'm not so sure about the grooming side of things, although it is admittedly possible. More likely in my mind is that the older guys are probably socially inadequate regarding folk of their own age, and so resort to interacting with more impressionable and naïve youngsters in order to feel more important as they relate their footballing experiences and give their advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 32 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: Football has always had this. You would always get kids growing up, looking at how the adults behave at games and thinking "i want to be part of that". It's that progression from sitting with your dad to gravitating towards the Shed. And then you hang around the fringes until you feel more comfortable at being part of it. The older guys would accept you and look after you if you showed the right attitude. Totally agree with this post Nookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haken Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 I'd have thought that if anyone had genuine concerns about the moral or physical safety of these youngsters that they'd report the matter to the police. At the same time, if this group is as troublesome as it's being painted, they'll already be on the police's radar. I'm not convinced at this stage that they're anything more than a bunch of rowdy youngsters testing the boundaries. Is it creepy that older guys encourage them, or sad that older guys want to try to relive their youth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: I think many people are making a point of listening and looking out for that kind of stuff this season, due to the creation of this singing section. Very much so. There has been no increase, just more attention and talk of such, which is the point I was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacklivi1874 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 7 hours ago, SpruceBringsteen said: I hate ******* and papes too m8 And Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Hullo Hullo was being sung all over the ground on Saturday, certainly not exclusive to the Singing Section, coming back on the train from Dunfermline we heard the whole songbook from all ages and social standings, 2 well spoken lads across from me on the train, one minute discussing banking marketing and traveling across Asia, the next minute, they’re up to there knees in fenian blood. I refuse to get to bothered about this anymore, as long as you have large groups of young men, add alcohol into the mix, then you will get unacceptable behaviour. We can try to control it, but you are wasting your time, there will always be an element of any large group of young men who will shout swear and be offensive, if you can’t accept it or just ignore it, then football away days probably aren’t for you. it is what it is I’m afraid, and anything else is denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, Boab said: Very much so. There has been no increase, just more attention and talk of such, which is the point I was making. We’ll agree to disagree on that. The good thing is they’ll be judged on their actions going forward so will have no-one to blame but themselves if they feck it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff the Mince Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Can someone point out when they have seen the creepy old guys this season ? I know it was talked about with the previous group ; When ive seen the young lads no one looked over 16 and certainly no guys in thiers 40s . . As i mentioned previously the group is always going to attract hangers on and bigots , and the songs as pointed out by others are being sung in parts if the ground where the young lads arent . I've witnessed singing in pubs and trains which is worse than these lads . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said: Can someone point out when they have seen the creepy old guys this season ? I know it was talked about with the previous group ; When ive seen the young lads no one looked over 16 and certainly no guys in thiers 40s . . As i mentioned previously the group is always going to attract hangers on and bigots , and the songs as pointed out by others are being sung in parts if the ground where the young lads arent . I've witnessed singing in pubs and trains which is worse than these lads . Can’t remember which of the home games it was but there was definitely a couple of older guys amongst them in lower T. Couldn’t miss them. One of them was a big guy, looked about mid 40s, in bright orange top wearing one of those bucket hats that everyone wore in the 90s. Remember pointing him out to my mate at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Frank1874 said: We’ll agree to disagree on that. The good thing is they’ll be judged on their actions going forward so will have no-one to blame but themselves if they feck it up. We will have disagree then. As long as they are judged on their actions alone and not the support as a whole, as others are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Frank1874 said: Can’t remember which of the home games it was but there was definitely a couple of older guys amongst them in lower T. Couldn’t miss them. One of them was a big guy, looked about mid 40s, in bright orange top wearing one of those bucket hats that everyone wore in the 90s. Remember pointing him out to my mate at the time. Are the ‘bucket hats’ the type that used to be worn on building sites Frank? If so, they were on the go long before the 90’s too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts1975 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 26 minutes ago, Morgan said: Totally agree with this post Nookie. Yup, it's no different to social up bringing - kids on the streets growing up, wanting to be hanging out with the older lads, thinking they will be admired for it and accepted within their own group as part of the older group, its been the same for years - football is no different to young teenagers growing up on the streets, if young lads feel they aren't accepted by some, even within their own support, they won't disappear and will just keep looking until they find folk that will accept them - regardless of type think that's the point that NB also makes, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 I welcome the singing section with open arms but feel uneasy with some of the song choices. I have said it before but Hearts should be the team of choice for a large section of the population of central Scotland and further afield that don't want to be boxed into a team because of issues of religion of politics. I believe we could be stunting our growth if these songs escalate further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, Boab said: We will have disagree then. As long as they are judged on their actions alone and not the support as a whole, as others are saying. Absolutely. Totally agree with that. There always has and always will be a problem in the wider support. What remains to be seem is whether having a singing section makes this problem better or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Morgan said: Are the ‘bucket hats’ the type that used to be worn on building sites Frank? If so, they were on the go long before the 90’s too. This kind of thing Morgan Might well have been pre-90s but I always associate them with the britpop era. When I see them on middle-aged men nowadays it just makes me think of chavs who still think they’re 17. Edited August 20, 2018 by Frank1874 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff the Mince Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 26 minutes ago, Frank1874 said: Can’t remember which of the home games it was but there was definitely a couple of older guys amongst them in lower T. Couldn’t miss them. One of them was a big guy, looked about mid 40s, in bright orange top wearing one of those bucket hats that everyone wore in the 90s. Remember pointing him out to my mate at the time. I suppose with a couple of homes games coming up we will see what they get up to . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Frank1874 said: This kind of thing Morgan Might well have been pre-90s but I always associate them with the britpop era. When I see them on middle-aged men nowadays it just makes me think of chavs who still think they’re 17. Cheers Frank! Not what I was thinking of at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Geoff the Mince said: I suppose with a couple of homes games coming up we will see what they get up to . . Absolutely and at the end of the day it will be how they behave during home matches that makes or breaks them as they’ll be all together and under the club’s microscope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said: Yup, it's no different to social up bringing - kids on the streets growing up, wanting to be hanging out with the older lads, thinking they will be admired for it and accepted within their own group as part of the older group, its been the same for years - football is no different to young teenagers growing up on the streets, if young lads feel they aren't accepted by some, even within their own support, they won't disappear and will just keep looking until they find folk that will accept them - regardless of type think that's the point that NB also makes, Paradoxically, it is the behaviour associated with the exclusion of others that people don’t like. Should homosexuals, Pakistanis, Black people or Catholics have to be singled out for example? It’s a shame if these guys feel excluded, but it’s difficult to see how that is by anything other than choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 57 minutes ago, Frank1874 said: Can’t remember which of the home games it was but there was definitely a couple of older guys amongst them in lower T. Couldn’t miss them. One of them was a big guy, looked about mid 40s, in bright orange top wearing one of those bucket hats that everyone wore in the 90s. Remember pointing him out to my mate at the time. Bucket hat, laughed at that, i need a picture of this hat, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Harry Potter said: Bucket hat, laughed at that, i need a picture of this hat, See previous post ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, Frank1874 said: See previous post ?? Cheers, i never had one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Harry Potter said: Cheers, i never had one? Did you have the building site hard hat (painted maroon and white) Harry? They were all the rage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 hours ago, jbee647 said: Hullo Hullo was being sung all over the ground on Saturday, certainly not exclusive to the Singing Section, coming back on the train from Dunfermline we heard the whole songbook from all ages and social standings, 2 well spoken lads across from me on the train, one minute discussing banking marketing and traveling across Asia, the next minute, they’re up to there knees in fenian blood. I refuse to get to bothered about this anymore, as long as you have large groups of young men, add alcohol into the mix, then you will get unacceptable behaviour. We can try to control it, but you are wasting your time, there will always be an element of any large group of young men who will shout swear and be offensive, if you can’t accept it or just ignore it, then football away days probably aren’t for you. it is what it is I’m afraid, and anything else is denial. You can speak well, work in banking and travel Asia and still be an absolute cretin Everyone should probably calm down with some of the more stronger insinuations though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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