Another Mass Shooting in America

[Don Dan]

We need to learn to love each other. 

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, obua said:

Another shooting being reported in Ohio.

 

Still early but shooter dead this time

 

 

[The Internet]

9 dead and it's not even the worst mass shooting in the last 12 hours. 

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

We need to learn to love each other. 

 

Trump will say they need to build a wall.

 

Poor upset white guy just wanted to do something about the "Hispanic invasion of Texas".

[Justin Z]

10 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

The US never had mass shootings before Trump. And if it had, previous Presidents would have done something about them. 

 

Five of the ten most deadly mass shootings in American history have occurred since 2016.

 

You are truly the duke, the grand vizier, the sultan, of superficial analysis.

[The Internet]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Trump will say they need to build a wall.

 

Poor upset white guy just wanted to do something about the "Hispanic invasion of Texas".

 

Hispanic invasion of El Paso

[Justin Z]

8 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

Hispanic invasion of El Paso

 

Imagine how ****ing ignorant of history, how specious your scrutiny of anything, you'd have to be, to even hold this concept in your brain.

 

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

Imagine how ****ing ignorant of history, how specious your scrutiny of anything, you'd have to be, to even hold this concept in your brain.

 

 

I know! He could almost be American. 

[Justin Z]

21 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

I know! He could almost be American. 

 

You've either gone four layers deep with the snark or you completely mistook what I was saying. Either way,

[Justin Z]

[Francis Albert]

42 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Five of the ten most deadly mass shootings in American history have occurred since 2016.

 

You are truly the duke, the grand vizier, the sultan, of superficial analysis.

And speaking of superficial analysis...

(The statistic is also wrong according to  a CNN list updated today, but that isn't the point)

[peter_hmfc]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

Five of the ten most deadly mass shootings in American history have occurred since 2016.

 

You are truly the duke, the grand vizier, the sultan, of superficial analysis.

 

Pulse happened under Obama.

[peter_hmfc]

22 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

And speaking of superficial analysis...

(The statistic is also wrong according to  a CNN list updated today, but that isn't the point)

 

No including Pulse then 5 of the deadliest mass-shootings have occurred since 2016.

 

Pulse, Las Vegas, Sutherland Springs, Parkland, and El Paso.

[Justin Z]

Just now, peter_hmfc said:

 

Pulse happened under Obama.

 

Yeah, I obviously don't dispute that. And what'd Trump do in response? Came out and said he'd protect LGBT Americans as president, which actually led some naive souls to think he'd be a different sort of Republican on those issues.

But no, he was using them as a prop so that he could spout anti-Islam, nativist, white supremacist bigotry. Three years of him blocking transgenders from the military, ordering the worst education secretary in American history to remove protections for transgender students in public schools, etc., put paid to the idea he actually had any intention of protecting vulnerable people, or that he had noble intentions in mind when he spoke out about Pulse.

 

His rhetoric then, and his continued rhetoric since (along with those of his radical right media lapdogs and internet supporters), has enabled these further atrocities.

Unless I'm completely blanking, Pulse was the last attack on US soil committed by what would have traditionally been called a terrorist--though a US citizen, someone who extolled Islamic supremacy. It serves as a macabre turning point.

[XB52]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

Five of the ten most deadly mass shootings in American history have occurred since 2016.

 

You are truly the duke, the grand vizier, the sultan, of superficial analysis.

He just says whatever is against the majority view to provoke arguments. Best ignored 

[systemx]

Anybody blamed Sadiq Khan yet?

[Francis Albert]

And pre-Trump 4 out of the 10 of the biggest killings occurred during Obama's presidency. The number and scale of mass killings has therefore been growing for some time, accelerated under Obama and has obviously accelerated further under Trump. Of course Trump is a factor as is the general decline in the tone and content of American political and media/internet discourse but a simple cause and effect analysis is facile.

And of course mass killings are a very small tip of the iceberg of deaths by gun and other violence in the USA.

 

PS I am not sure what "majority view" I am against here.

[AndyNic]

2 hours ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

9 dead and it's not even the worst mass shooting in the last 12 hours. 

 

Absolutely mental.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Even if they banned people owning fire arms tomorrow these atrocities would continue.  

Edited August 4, 2019 by Seymour M Hersh

[jake]

42 minutes ago, XB52 said:

He just says whatever is against the majority view to provoke arguments. Best ignored 

Wow.

 

 

[The Internet]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

Even if they banned people owning fire arms tomorrow these atrocities would continue.  

 

Probably. They'll never ban them outright though. At some point they've decided the odd atrocity is a small price to pay for the freedom to own and carry a gun. There's no real way round it now I think. There was a witness getting interviewed on cnn and he was talking about how he's got a carry permit so just whipped out his gun as if that's just a totally normal thing, which it is over there. Any random walking down the street could be legally carrying a loaded gun. 

[jake]

29 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

And pre-Trump 4 out of the 10 of the biggest killings occurred during Obama's presidency. The number and scale of mass killings has therefore been growing for some time, accelerated under Obama and has obviously accelerated further under Trump. Of course Trump is a factor as is the general decline in the tone and content of American political and media/internet discourse but a simple cause and effect analysis is facile.

And of course mass killings are a very small tip of the iceberg of deaths by gun and other violence in the USA.

 

PS I am not sure what "majority view" I am against here.

Dont you know that unless you toe the line with your train of thought you are at it ,thick or dont understand.

 

 

 

[XB52]

11 minutes ago, jake said:

Dont you know that unless you toe the line with your train of thought you are at it ,thick or dont understand.

 

 

 

Not thick and he understands fine. Just trolls for effect. And the number of mass shootings isn't really the issue. It is the fact the the white supremacists have been given, in their twisted minds, the green light by the racist in the white House 

[Jeff]

Build a wall to protect the Mexicans from the nasty Americans!!!

[peter_hmfc]

.

Edited August 4, 2019 by peter_hmfc

[Justin Z]

52 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

And pre-Trump 4 out of the 10 of the biggest killings occurred during Obama's presidency. The number and scale of mass killings has therefore been growing for some time, accelerated under Obama and has obviously accelerated further under Trump. Of course Trump is a factor as is the general decline in the tone and content of American political and media/internet discourse but a simple cause and effect analysis is facile.

And of course mass killings are a very small tip of the iceberg of deaths by gun and other violence in the USA.

 

PS I am not sure what "majority view" I am against here.

 

Thank you for proceeding to point this out, as I was certain you would. Having spent about 85% of 2008-2016 in America, I can tell you the right wing nativist racism from O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Carlson, Coulter, and the dregs of the internet was only ramping up during that period in response to the audacity of an uppity Black daring to become president. That teed it up and Trump has slammed it home as XB52 has just pointed out.

As an American acquaintance said today, "What stuns me isn't the trigger—that’s pretty obvious [Trump --JZ]. It’s how many people apparently felt this way (and how strongly) and kept it under wraps. I’m discouraged for our society." A broken, racist society is exactly what it is, and I'm at the point I hope it burns to the ground.

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Justin Z

[Maple Leaf]

12 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Thank you for proceeding to point this out, as I was certain you would. Having spent about 85% of 2008-2016 in America, I can tell you the right wing nativist racism from O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Carlson, Coulter, and the dregs of the internet was only ramping up during that period in response to the audacity of an uppity Black daring to become president. That teed it up and Trump has slammed it home as XB52 has just pointed out.

As an American acquaintance said today, "What stuns me isn't the trigger—that’s pretty obvious [Trump --JZ]. It’s how many people apparently felt this way (and how strongly) and kept it under wraps. I’m discouraged for our society." A broken, racist society is exactly what it is, and I'm at the point I hope it burns to the ground.

 

 

A racist country led by a racist president. What could possibly go wrong?

 

I really think that the media should stop giving such over-the-top coverage to these mass shootings. It's the same stuff time after time; pictures of people in tears, prayer vigils for the victims, meaningless platitudes from politicians, impromptu memorials with flowers, candles, and stuffed toys.  Nothing changes, nothing ever will change, but the news often can lead to copy-cat slaughters.

[jake]

34 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Not thick and he understands fine. Just trolls for effect. And the number of mass shootings isn't really the issue. It is the fact the the white supremacists have been given, in their twisted minds, the green light by the racist in the white House 

These white supremacists are being manipulated online in the same way isis go about their business.

If they cant access guns then Van's and knives will do.

 

 

The POTUS is there to be taken on.

Unfortunately as is the case in this country there is no credible opposition.

But I fear mainstream politics especially in the US is governed by lobbyists.

 

[jake]

37 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Build a wall to protect the Mexicans from the nasty Americans!!!

I posted something similar after a mass shooting.

I asked if there should be travel bans on Americans .

 

[Jeff]

20 minutes ago, jake said:

I posted something similar after a mass shooting.

I asked if there should be travel bans on Americans .

 

 

If only. Golf would be enjoyable again.

 

In seriousness though I can't wait to see what Trump thinks about this one

[Jambo-Jimbo]

17 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

A racist country led by a racist president. What could possibly go wrong?

 

I really think that the media should stop giving such over-the-top coverage to these mass shootings. It's the same stuff time after time; pictures of people in tears, prayer vigils for the victims, meaningless platitudes from politicians, impromptu memorials with flowers, candles, and stuffed toys.  Nothing changes, nothing ever will change, but the news often can lead to copy-cat slaughters.

 

Nothing will change until the American people themselves decide they want things to change, and I can't see that happening anytime soon.

 

I just can't get my head around that somebody can walk into their local Walmart, pick up some milk, bread, potatoes, a tin of beans, some sweeties for the bairns, oh and an AR15 assault rifle.

 

[Jeff]

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Nothing will change until the American people themselves decide they want things to change, and I can't see that happening anytime soon.

 

I just can't get my head around that somebody can walk into their local Walmart, pick up some milk, bread, potatoes, a tin of beans, some sweeties for the bairns, oh and an AR15 assault rifle.

 

 

Haggis and Kinder Eggs are banned though

[jake]

33 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

If only. Golf would be enjoyable again.

 

In seriousness though I can't wait to see what Trump thinks about this one

I think I could.

Wait that is.

 

Hes just another symptom of all that's wrong.

[Justin Z]

35 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Haggis and Kinder Eggs are banned though

 

Even one of the colourings in Irn Bru is banned. It's much more a dull copper colour than orange, if you can find it in the US.

[jake]

Just now, Justin Z said:

 

Even one of the colourings in Irn Bru is banned. It's much more a dull copper colour than orange, if you can find it in the US.

Lucky US.

It's a shit juice only beaten in shiteness by coca cola.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

A racist country led by a racist president. What could possibly go wrong?

 

I really think that the media should stop giving such over-the-top coverage to these mass shootings. It's the same stuff time after time; pictures of people in tears, prayer vigils for the victims, meaningless platitudes from politicians, impromptu memorials with flowers, candles, and stuffed toys.  Nothing changes, nothing ever will change, but the news often can lead to copy-cat slaughters.

 

Not according to Martin Luther King's niece. 

[Maple Leaf]

40 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Nothing will change until the American people themselves decide they want things to change, and I can't see that happening anytime soon.

 

 

 

Nor can I.  By and large, Americans support their Second Amendment rights.  That means that any attempt to implement meaningful gun control laws faces an uphill battle.

 

More surprising is the number of Americans who believe that the answer to mass shootings is more guns. This is how their reasoning goes:

 

"If everyone in Walmart yesterday had been carrying a gun, the shooter would not have been stupid enough to even attempt what he did.  Even if only half the people had been carrying a gun, the shooter would have been taken out quickly, thus saving lives."

 

I've heard that conversation twice on my visits to the USA, and the other people in the room nodded in agreement.

 

 

[Justin Z]

21 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Not according to Martin Luther King's niece. 

 

Welp, that's settled then.

[Justin Z]

 

Just **** off.

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

America will never learn nor change.

 

Meanwhile the now to often standard response of our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims, but now is not the time to talk about gun controls.

 

Another day and reports of another shooting this time in Dayton, Ohio.

No doubts and it's sad to say this but the standard our thoughts and prayers blah blah fecking blah will get trotted out yet again.

 

Then tomorrow or the next day or next week, guess what, there'll be more thoughts and prayers going out to the victims and it'll still not be the right time to talk about gun controls.

 

They will never learn or change.

This is the country that tries to police the world.

What a joke.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, jake said:

These white supremacists are being manipulated online in the same way isis go about their business.

If they cant access guns then Van's and knives will do.

 

 

The POTUS is there to be taken on.

Unfortunately as is the case in this country there is no credible opposition.

But I fear mainstream politics especially in the US is governed by lobbyists.

 

I still hope the Democrats can up with a credible alternative to Trump. Biden at present, though not ideal, seems to be the best hope.

But one of the also-ran candidates has simply blamed the Texas atrocity on "Trump's racism". And by extension on all the "deplorables" who voted for him. How to lose an election before it has started.

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, XB52 said:

Not thick and he understands fine. Just trolls for effect. It isn't . It is the fact the the white supremacists have been given, in their twisted minds, the green light by the racist in the white House 

It isn't (ie the number of mass killings is not really the issue), which is why I disputed the relevance or at least the centrality  of the statistics about mass killings since 2016.

The dismissal of views that don't exactly align with others' (often IMO overly simplistic) views and the drive to "ignore" them is part of the problem.

As far as I can see no-one has really argued against or disputed the points I have made, just dismissed them as "trolling".

But even potential Presidential candidates can seem almost to excuse mass killings because they were "down to Trump's racism".

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Justin Z]

27 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The dismissal of views that don't exactly align with others' (often IMO overly simplistic) views and the drive to "ignore" them is part of the problem.

 

16 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

The US never had mass shootings before Trump. And if it had, previous Presidents would have done something about them. 

 

Your hypocrisy is noted.

[Francis Albert]

22 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

Your hypocrisy is noted.

 

Not sure where the hypocrisy comes in.

There is a decent stream on the match thread if you are interested. Just mute the commentary.

[Cade]

Most previous mass shootings have not been racially motivated.

Schoolchildren taking revenge on bullies, disgruntled workers taking revenge on workmates and so on.

The most recent ones are motivated by far-right hatred of people from other faiths or racial backgrounds or sexuality.

That's the difference.

And it's a big one.

 

[Justin Z]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

 

Not sure where the hypocrisy comes in.

There is a decent stream on the match thread if you are interested. Just mute the commentary.

 

I have it on, and it's why I'm in an even more sour mood than I was the first time I read your snarky dismissal of a view that doesn't exactly align with your (overly simplistic) view and your drive to "ignore" it.

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Most previous mass shootings have not been racially motivated.

Schoolchildren taking revenge on bullies, disgruntled workers taking revenge on workmates and so on.

The most recent ones are motivated by far-right hatred of people from other faiths or racial backgrounds or sexuality.

That's the difference.

And it's a big one.

 

 

The fascism-supporting right nationalist media in the U.S. is busy helping fascist politicians blame it on video games instead of the racist nativism they spew.

 

Meanwhile, JESUS ****ING CHRIST:

'This is not happening again!' 3 who survived Gilroy Garlic Festival shooting escaped Las Vegas in 2017

 

Can you even ****ing imagine?

 

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Justin Z

[Sharpie]

Often the 2nd Amendment is quoted, i.e. that is the right to bear arms. I am not sure the relevance of it in 2019, my understanding was in the days when the American soldiers of the day were according to todays President retaking airports and things. The legislation was introduced in these days because basically they had a civilian army, a small population in a relatively small area and always under threat of invasion by the British. It made sense to allow them to have weapons close at hand. The weapons of course were old missile down the barrel light a fuse and repeat for  next shot. I t would be difficult to think that they would have had any conception that the Country was going to be populated by mega millions, that weapons could fire many rounds without reload, and that immigrants which they all were or at least the stock of would be seen as the invaders and shot with no warning or declaration of war.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

Haggis and Kinder Eggs are banned though

 

Yeh, weren't the small toys deemed to be a danger to children, yet an assault rifle isn't.

 

I'd bet that more children have died at the hands of guns than choking on a small Kinder toy, yet it's the toy that gets banned.

 

Kinds sums up America. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Nor can I.  By and large, Americans support their Second Amendment rights.  That means that any attempt to implement meaningful gun control laws faces an uphill battle.

 

More surprising is the number of Americans who believe that the answer to mass shootings is more guns. This is how their reasoning goes:

 

"If everyone in Walmart yesterday had been carrying a gun, the shooter would not have been stupid enough to even attempt what he did.  Even if only half the people had been carrying a gun, the shooter would have been taken out quickly, thus saving lives."

 

I've heard that conversation twice on my visits to the USA, and the other people in the room nodded in agreement.

 

 

 

It would end up like a scene from an old Wild West movie, where there is a bar shoot-out and nobody knows whose shooting at who and everybody with a gun becomes a target.