Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Francis Albert]

On 16/10/2019 at 16:18, Footballfirst said:

Jo Maugham suggests he will be heading back to the Court of Session this week.

 

Jo Maugham QC @JolyonMaugham

We believe the Government's proposed Withdrawal Agreement is contrary to section 55 of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018 http://legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/22/section/55/enacted

 Unless and until Section 55 is repealed by the UK Parliament it is simply not open, as a matter of law, for the United Kingdom to enter into such an agreement

I intend to lodge an immediate petition for an injunction in the Court of Session preventing the Government from placing the Withdrawal Agreement before Parliament for approval. We expect that petition to be lodged tomorrow and to be heard on Friday.

We do not understand how the Government might have come to negotiate a Withdrawal Agreement in terms that breach amendments tabled by its own ERG. (Background Briefing here https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/LLN-2018-0089#fullreport…).

 

The text of the ERG amendment that was accepted by the Government and the Commons without a division was as follows:

 

New clause 37 would provide that:

1) It shall be unlawful for Her Majesty’s Government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain.

2) For the purposes of this section “customs territory” shall have the same meaning as in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, 1947, as amended.

Seems to have been dismissed by the Court of Session pretty comprehensively?

[JackLadd]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

They know the UK shares a land border with the Republic of Ireland.

The DUP doesn''t share a land border with anyone. Nor really (assuming that is what you meant) does Northern Ireland. The current border is between the two independent nation states of the ROI and the UK. 

 

They share a land border with the EU, fact. And I hope one day that border is gone, and the whole DUP and the Orange mess with it. Demographics suggest it will happen. 

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Seems to have been dismissed by the Court of Session pretty comprehensively?

 

Correct.  The BBC article below has the judge slaughtering the case with quotes such as "misconceived and unjustified", "of very doubtful competency" and "weak".

 

BBC Article

[Francis Albert]

6 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

They share a land border with the EU, fact. And I hope one day that border is gone, and the whole DUP and the Orange mess with it. Demographics suggest it will happen. 

Again I am not clear who you mean by "they".  Since the Republic became less influenced by the Catholic church's opposition.to.abortion and birth control the demographic trends  (if by that you mean the protestant/catholic divide in itself a simplification.of the issue) have been less pronounced.

[annushorribilis III]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I don't suppose there is any chance the widow could be extended if there are still some loose ends? Good conspiracy theory though

Is there ? 

[annushorribilis III]

22 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Again I am not clear who you mean by "they".  Since the Republic became less influenced by the Catholic church's opposition.to.abortion and birth control the demographic trends  (if by that you mean the protestant/catholic divide in itself a simplification.of the issue) have been less pronounced.

You know exactly what he means. 

[jake]

4 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

Posters like jl are vital, without them how would you fully display how utterly ridiculous and unthinking the no deal stance is?

How do you know that ?

Its ridiculous that remainers think they know the future at the dismissal of other views.

How do you know ?

[annushorribilis III]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

They know the UK shares a land border with the Republic of Ireland.

The DUP doesn''t share a land border with anyone. Nor really (assuming that is what you meant) does Northern Ireland. The current border is between the two independent nation states of the ROI and the UK. 

...with the EU.  It's not the RoI that's the problem - but you know that. The UK now shares a land border with the biggest trading bloc on the planet and wants to completely diverge from the current arrangements . But you know that too.  It's about divergence , in all its forms - that's what BJ  wants. 

PS Don't you feel disappointed  the referendum result isn't being upheld ? De facto, the UK is NOT leaving the EU ? 

[jake]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Seems to have been dismissed by the Court of Session pretty comprehensively?

No no no .

Please 

Dont interrupt the flow of shite.

[annushorribilis III]

3 minutes ago, jake said:

How do you know that ?

Its ridiculous that remainers think they know the future at the dismissal of other views.

How do you know ?

What do leavers know about the future ? 

[jake]

I hope that the drivel posted on here dosent come back to haunt the descendants of the posters responsible.

 

Need more 

Want more 

Fek the poorest 

 

That's what the EU stands for.

 

Anything else is a lie 

 

But you all want cheap fags cheap flights cheap labour cheap holidays cheap lifes

[annushorribilis III]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Seems to have been dismissed by the Court of Session pretty comprehensively?

So no headlines from the Daily Mail et al this week about "enemies of the people".  What a blessing. 

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

...with the EU.  It's not the RoI that's the problem - but you know that. The UK now shares a land border with the biggest trading bloc on the planet and wants to completely diverge from the current arrangements . But you know that too.  It's about divergence , in all its forms - that's what BJ  wants. 

PS Don't you feel disappointed  the referendum result isn't being upheld ? De facto, the UK is NOT leaving the EU ? 

Why should I be disappointed? But de facto.the Boris deal would if delivered mean leaving the EU. In a messy compromise that seems to.me me to.be consistent with the referendum.outcome

 

[jake]

1 minute ago, annushorribilis III said:

What do leavers know about the future ? 

I know that the current policies of this cartel serve the rich.

Apart from that I dont sook the elites bell end like you .

I dont swallow the shite like you that somehow the status quo are the protectors of working people.

But bash on voting for shite.

 

[jake]

2 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

So no headlines from the Daily Mail et al this week about "enemies of the people".  What a blessing. 

Enemies of the people?

 

Is that a member state denying through brute police brutality the wishes of democracy?

Spanish fascist police beating the press?

French police beating protesters.

 

Yet you and your generic fake socialism claim the high ground.

 

Do shut up

[jake]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Why should I be disappointed? But de facto.the Boris deal would if delivered mean leaving the EU. In a messy compromise that seems to.me me to.be consistent with the referendum.outcome

 

No point FA.

These types are brainwashed.

 

They actually believe that out with the EU the NHS is protected.

Stupidly and like little moonies believing the EU is a protecter of working people.

 

What a bunch of fuds they are.

 

 

Sorry FA I know you wont like my description but I laugh at their definition of socialism.

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

6 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I don't suppose there is any chance the widow could be extended if there are still some loose ends? Good conspiracy theory though

 

On the basis that the post-2020 protection of no crash out HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE DEAL AND NOW ALL THE NO DEAL BREXITEERS ARE VOTING FOR THE DEAL, it's not a 'conspiracy theory'. Which means that if the deal passes - and it's looking awfully like it will - Britain faces the following:

 

1. A general election in which Johnson will likely cruise home

2. No Deal at the end of 2020

3. Utter catastrophe, which will make austerity look like a Christmas party.

 

But never mind. If/when utter catastrophe comes to pass, you, Jake and others can proudly proclaim that World War Three didn't break out and only a few hundred thousand people died. And that most importantly, the will of the people (a people who obviously voted for utter catastrophe and many deaths) will have been respected.

 

I honestly don't know what planet you're on at times. I really don't.

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

You mean voters who didn't want independence. How dare they. How very dare they!

Do u think EU citizens should've had a vote at the EU ref? Or was it correct for their vote not to count?

[ri Alban]

12 hours ago, JackLadd said:

 

You have OVER representation in the UK. 62 nodding Nicola lapdogs in Holyrood and 35 clowns in Westminster doing a Farage in Brussels routine. Not to mentions the 400 councillors. 

59 of 650 MPs. The UK has 73 of 751 Meps, 59 Msps, 594 MPs. So, The UK must be well over represented, going by your logic.

Edited October 19, 2019 by ri Alban

[ri Alban]

16 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

59 of 650 MPs. The UK has 73 of 751 Meps, 59 Msps, 594 MPs. So, The UK must be well over represented, going by your logic.

I suppose it's actually 650 MPs and 129 Msps.

 

 

Anyway. Are the Scottish Tories going to betray their constituents? Or does that just apply to Labour.

Edited October 19, 2019 by ri Alban

[ri Alban]

Member when Spain were gonnae veto Scotland, but Turkey were gonnae join and come here in millions.  Nae wonner they didn't let EU citizens vote, there must about 30 million here. Remain would have strolled it.

[The Mighty Thor]

5 hours ago, jake said:

I know that the current policies of this cartel serve the rich.

Apart from that I dont sook the elites bell end like you .

I dont swallow the shite like you that somehow the status quo are the protectors of working people.

But bash on voting for shite.

 

In the pantheon of ill informed pish you post that one is right up there. 

[Captain Sausage]

There is absolutely no way this deal passes through parliament. 
 

Boris Johnson will use parliaments rejection to call a general election. The anger from the leave voters will be aimed at LDs, Labour and not the Tories. This will mitigate the threat of the Brexit party to BJ and he’ll get the majority government he wants. 
 

Then we will be properly ****ed. 

[Pans Jambo]

10 hours ago, Old Hearts said:

I have a feeling I am going to regret this......but.....white glove brigade??

Bowler hats, FTP, Wearrapeepel, Obsessed with orange. Yeah, that lot. 

[Pans Jambo]

DP

Edited October 19, 2019 by Pans Jambo

[The Mighty Thor]

31 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

There is absolutely no way this deal passes through parliament. 
 

Boris Johnson will use parliaments rejection to call a general election. The anger from the leave voters will be aimed at LDs, Labour and not the Tories. This will mitigate the threat of the Brexit party to BJ and he’ll get the majority government he wants. 
 

Then we will be properly ****ed. 

I thought that the deal would be unpalatable to the ERG/DUP types at first but I've got a feeling baw jaws will squeak through thanks to a bit of arm twisting but mostly shitehawk labour MPs voting it through. 

[Unknown user]

7 hours ago, jake said:

How do you know that ?

Its ridiculous that remainers think they know the future at the dismissal of other views.

How do you know ?

I know that we don't have medicines stockpiled, food sourced.

We don't have extra customs buildings built at the ports, queue lines painted on the roads, computer systems tendered or written, paperwork printed, protocols in place, staff hired, staff trained.

I know that no deal increases the cost of existing for this island nation massively and will hurt those that currently struggle the most.

I know that diabetics will suffer through lack of insulin, I know that cancer sufferers will suffer because chemo drugs can't and haven't been stockpiled.

I know that Britain produces 70% of the food it needs to survive and that no deal will make people hungry.

 

So what do you know about no deal jake? Explain why it isn't an ignorant and unthinking stance instead of floating round the edges having vague digs and acting all superior for once.

[Victorian]

Yes this all looks to be about Johnson's personal glory and the ability to buy a general election majority.    He's been parrotting Dominic Cumming's 'GET BREXIT DONE' mantra to death... but it isn't getting done in any way,  shape or form.    All this does is to replace one cliff edge with a much more hazardous cliff edge.    

 

Johnson wins today and all we'll hear is how he said he promised that Brexit would get done and that he has protected the national interest by preventing no deal.    People will actually believe that it's over.     Johnson loses today and the real protectors of the national interest will again be cast as the enemies of democracy,   etc.

 

Hard Brexit psychopaths have mapped out a strategy to shut and lock the door by facilitating a 'deal',   only to frustrate the legislative phase.    Even if that passes,   they'll continue to agitate and scheme to cause a failure to negotiate a future trading relationship before the end of the implimentation period.    One can only assume that the EU have made a miscalculation by seemingly allowing these dangerous arseholes that possibility.

[frankblack]

49 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Bowler hats, FTP, Wearrapeepel, Obsessed with orange. Yeah, that lot. 

 

 

Good grief.  You need to seek help urgently.

[Unknown user]

6 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

Jake what you drinking tonight? 
 

I like your posts, rarely agree with you in the shed. The terrace much more so 😀. However, you passionate and you man up when you’ve been a dick. 👍
 

I’m just genuinely interested in what your poison is when these passionate episodes start. I could do with some!

 

FTR I do believe leavers, in general, get a hard time as people don’t listen to their perspective/argument and many just resort to easy outs ie. racists, thick etc. 
 

I do struggle with your arguments about the positives of leaving the EU. However, do you work in the construction industry and seen your prices/rates drop through influx of cheaper labour from EU? 

 

Just trying to understand your position. 👍

 

I have a problem with this B, we see a LOT of insults from the leave side, we get called stupid, libtards, on this very page Jake's calling leavers stupid, moonies, fuds, they're sooking the elite bellend.

 

But if it gets pointed out that no deal is a really ****ing stupid idea and they go all snowflake- "don't call me stupid!"

Well stop acting so ****ing stupid then.

[Mikey1874]

7 hours ago, jake said:

I hope that the drivel posted on here dosent come back to haunt the descendants of the posters responsible.

 

Need more 

Want more 

Fek the poorest 

 

That's what the EU stands for.

 

Anything else is a lie 

 

But you all want cheap fags cheap flights cheap labour cheap holidays cheap lifes

 

Though comparing GDP and other indicators from 1975 and then 1992 might suggest EU has been good.

[Mikey1874]

29 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Yes this all looks to be about Johnson's personal glory and the ability to buy a general election majority.    He's been parrotting Dominic Cumming's 'GET BREXIT DONE' mantra to death... but it isn't getting done in any way,  shape or form.    All this does is to replace one cliff edge with a much more hazardous cliff edge.    

 

Johnson wins today and all we'll hear is how he said he promised that Brexit would get done and that he has protected the national interest by preventing no deal.    People will actually believe that it's over.     Johnson loses today and the real protectors of the national interest will again be cast as the enemies of democracy,   etc.

 

Hard Brexit psychopaths have mapped out a strategy to shut and lock the door by facilitating a 'deal',   only to frustrate the legislative phase.    Even if that passes,   they'll continue to agitate and scheme to cause a failure to negotiate a future trading relationship before the end of the implimentation period.    One can only assume that the EU have made a miscalculation by seemingly allowing these dangerous arseholes that possibility.

 

Or we get the deal (which Labour doesn't really oppose) with a Referendum. 

[Victorian]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

Or we get the deal (which Labour doesn't really oppose) with a Referendum. 

 

We could see that voted for in an amendment but I think the enactment of it would be frustrated or cancelled further down the track.     I really can't see much being secured or guaranteed today.

[The Mighty Thor]

39 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Yes this all looks to be about Johnson's personal glory and the ability to buy a general election majority.    He's been parrotting Dominic Cumming's 'GET BREXIT DONE' mantra to death... but it isn't getting done in any way,  shape or form.    All this does is to replace one cliff edge with a much more hazardous cliff edge.    

 

Johnson wins today and all we'll hear is how he said he promised that Brexit would get done and that he has protected the national interest by preventing no deal.    People will actually believe that it's over.     Johnson loses today and the real protectors of the national interest will again be cast as the enemies of democracy,   etc.

 

Hard Brexit psychopaths have mapped out a strategy to shut and lock the door by facilitating a 'deal',   only to frustrate the legislative phase.    Even if that passes,   they'll continue to agitate and scheme to cause a failure to negotiate a future trading relationship before the end of the implimentation period.    One can only assume that the EU have made a miscalculation by seemingly allowing these dangerous arseholes that possibility.

Again there's no realisation that if this flies today it's not so much get Brexit done as finally get Brexit started.

The crumb of comfort is that finally we'll get to see some actual Brexit plans from the Tories as opposed to parroting classic dom sound bites. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Again there's no realisation that if this flies today it's not so much get Brexit done as finally get Brexit started.

The crumb of comfort is that finally we'll get to see some actual Brexit plans from the Tories as opposed to parroting classic dom sound bites. 

 

Yeah, if this goes through today, the negotiations can actually begin.

God help us all. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Genuinely, if this gets the support it needs then it should proceed immediately. This whole thing is a shambles and we need to move on. 

[Victorian]

We wont see a running commentary of genuine policies,  aims,  etc.     All we'll get is a different set of soundbites and tropes.     The real cabinet policy formation and the details of negotiations will go back underground.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Genuinely, if this gets the support it needs then it should proceed immediately. This whole thing is a shambles and we need to move on. 

 

Proceeding immediately = lots of negotiations, maybe years. We haven't exactly shown great efficiency in negotiating exit deals, there is no quick end to this shitshow.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Proceeding immediately = lots of negotiations, maybe years. We haven't exactly shown great efficiency in negotiating exit deals, there is no quick end to this shitshow.

What I mean is that if this gets approved by Parliament, there’s no justification for anyone to obstruct anymore. Not the Lib Dem’s, not Gina Miller, not anyone. I hate the fact that Brexit’s happening but enough’s enough.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

What I mean is that if this gets approved by Parliament, there’s no justification for anyone to obstruct anymore. Not the Lib Dem’s, not Gina Miller, not anyone. I hate the fact that Brexit’s happening but enough’s enough.

 

If this passes,   the hard Brexit side will obstruct a sensible deal.    The remainer side are entitled to counter-obstruct.    The no deal lobby can't be allowed a free hit.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

If this passes,   the hard Brexit side will obstruct a sensible deal.    The remainer side are entitled to counter-obstruct.    The no deal lobby can't be allowed a free hit.

they both need to **** off tbh

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

What I mean is that if this gets approved by Parliament, there’s no justification for anyone to obstruct anymore. Not the Lib Dem’s, not Gina Miller, not anyone. I hate the fact that Brexit’s happening but enough’s enough.

 

I get why you say that but no one should stop fighting their corner in a democracy. If people passionately believe that Brexit is a brutal idea that should be stopped, I expect them to fight it all the way.

 

The tories put thiese wheels in motion, they're to blame for all of this, no one else, and I can't blame anyone for fighting it to the end.

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

they both need to **** off tbh

 

But nobody will **** off.    Brexit will not be getting done.     This goes on and on while the Tories crow about delivering Brexit.

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

they both need to **** off tbh

 

.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Victorian

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

they both need to **** off tbh

 

.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Victorian

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I get why you say that but no one should stop fighting their corner in a democracy. If people passionately believe that Brexit is a brutal idea that should be stopped, I expect them to fight it all the way.

 

The tories put thiese wheels in motion, they're to blame for all of this, no one else, and I can't blame anyone for fighting it to the end.

There comes a point at which you’re going round in circles and where something has to give. I’m a pragmatist. To many people in the country still want Brexit for us to cancel the whole thing. That will never change.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

There comes a point at which you’re going round in circles and where something has to give. I’m a pragmatist. To many people in the country still want Brexit for us to cancel the whole thing. That will never change.

Too many people don't want it to expect them to give up.

People that don't want Brexit will get the blame when this all falls at the Tories' door 

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

There comes a point at which you’re going round in circles and where something has to give. I’m a pragmatist. To many people in the country still want Brexit for us to cancel the whole thing. That will never change.

 

But the fairy tale of Brexit happening is an illusion.    A con trick to buy another term in government.    Whether this vote succeeds or not makes little difference.    Nobody on the extremes is going to walk away from their causes.     

 

Brexit passes a stage.     Hard Brexit ***** will agitate for as bad a future as they can cause.     Democrats can't allow them.     How they go about the insurgency against gleeful dystopia is the most crucial aspect.

[Justin Z]

Smithee laying the wood

 

 

[Victorian]

The most important people in parliament right now are the cross-house axis of sentinels.    Grieve, Letwin, Benn, Cooper.     If parliament is not dissolved for an election,    this group of people are vital to the prevention of an under-the-table no deal.