Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[jake]

40 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Will be odd to see the Ulster says No party support a deal and Sturgeon oppose it so she can ride on a no deal to herd Iref2 sheep. I see right through the SNP and so should any thinking Scot. 

I see them too.

Theres much to be critical of the SNP.

Nicola Sturgeon isn't one those.

Clever lassie and imo a credit to Scotland.

We need brexit as the lead .

I know not many if any will agree but the positives of both will come.

Exciting times .

 

[Unknown user]

50 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Will be odd to see the Ulster says No party support a deal and Sturgeon oppose it so she can ride on a no deal to herd Iref2 sheep. I see right through the SNP and so should any thinking Scot. 

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, jake said:

Liked that although i hope your no comparing me to a shweaty biker on a shit Harley.

 

I'm on my lambretta mate with my good lady modette .

😁

 

Your good lady Cornette, you say?

 

Was definitely not comparing you to a Harley biker, just rather it was almost like that author had read your months of trying to rationalise a Leave vote as some sort of popular, populist upheaval and instead laid bare exactly what it is and was--quite the opposite (a boon to the filthy rich) and quite the shitshow.

[Footballfirst]

Jo Maugham suggests he will be heading back to the Court of Session this week.

 

Jo Maugham QC @JolyonMaugham

We believe the Government's proposed Withdrawal Agreement is contrary to section 55 of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018 http://legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/22/section/55/enacted

 Unless and until Section 55 is repealed by the UK Parliament it is simply not open, as a matter of law, for the United Kingdom to enter into such an agreement

I intend to lodge an immediate petition for an injunction in the Court of Session preventing the Government from placing the Withdrawal Agreement before Parliament for approval. We expect that petition to be lodged tomorrow and to be heard on Friday.

We do not understand how the Government might have come to negotiate a Withdrawal Agreement in terms that breach amendments tabled by its own ERG. (Background Briefing here https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/LLN-2018-0089#fullreport…).

 

The text of the ERG amendment that was accepted by the Government and the Commons without a division was as follows:

 

New clause 37 would provide that:

1) It shall be unlawful for Her Majesty’s Government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain.

2) For the purposes of this section “customs territory” shall have the same meaning as in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, 1947, as amended.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Footballfirst

[jake]

38 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Your good lady Cornette, you say?

 

Was definitely not comparing you to a Harley biker, just rather it was almost like that author had read your months of trying to rationalise a Leave vote as some sort of popular, populist upheaval and instead laid bare exactly what it is and was--quite the opposite (a boon to the filthy rich) and quite the shitshow.

I'm glad the author took the time to read my posts.

 

Nice of you to sum me up though.

 

[Justin Z]

13 minutes ago, jake said:

I'm glad the author took the time to read my posts.

 

Nice of you to sum me up though.

 

Mere words could never sum you up, jake.

[Iamborg]

The guy that owns Wotherspoon's is a slavering prick .

[jake]

4 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Mere words could never sum you up, jake.

Aw you ya big lump.

😄

[AlphonseCapone]

43 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Jo Maugham suggests he will be heading back to the Court of Session this week.

 

Jo Maugham QC @JolyonMaugham

We believe the Government's proposed Withdrawal Agreement is contrary to section 55 of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018 http://legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/22/section/55/enacted

 Unless and until Section 55 is repealed by the UK Parliament it is simply not open, as a matter of law, for the United Kingdom to enter into such an agreement

I intend to lodge an immediate petition for an injunction in the Court of Session preventing the Government from placing the Withdrawal Agreement before Parliament for approval. We expect that petition to be lodged tomorrow and to be heard on Friday.

We do not understand how the Government might have come to negotiate a Withdrawal Agreement in terms that breach amendments tabled by its own ERG. (Background Briefing here https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/LLN-2018-0089#fullreport…).

 

The text of the ERG amendment that was accepted by the Government and the Commons without a division was as follows:

 

New clause 37 would provide that:

1) It shall be unlawful for Her Majesty’s Government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain.

2) For the purposes of this section “customs territory” shall have the same meaning as in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, 1947, as amended.

 

Can the British negotiators really have missed this 😮

[Newton51]

45 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Jo Maugham suggests he will be heading back to the Court of Session this week.

 

Jo Maugham QC @JolyonMaugham

We believe the Government's proposed Withdrawal Agreement is contrary to section 55 of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018 http://legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/22/section/55/enacted

 Unless and until Section 55 is repealed by the UK Parliament it is simply not open, as a matter of law, for the United Kingdom to enter into such an agreement

I intend to lodge an immediate petition for an injunction in the Court of Session preventing the Government from placing the Withdrawal Agreement before Parliament for approval. We expect that petition to be lodged tomorrow and to be heard on Friday.

We do not understand how the Government might have come to negotiate a Withdrawal Agreement in terms that breach amendments tabled by its own ERG. (Background Briefing here https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/LLN-2018-0089#fullreport…).

 

The text of the ERG amendment that was accepted by the Government and the Commons without a division was as follows:

 

New clause 37 would provide that:

1) It shall be unlawful for Her Majesty’s Government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain.

2) For the purposes of this section “customs territory” shall have the same meaning as in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, 1947, as amended.

Good news! We do know they tend to ignore legal advice. Look at the prorogue of parliament 

[Pans Jambo]

2 hours ago, JackLadd said:

Will be odd to see the Ulster says No party support a deal and Sturgeon oppose it so she can ride on a no deal to herd Iref2 sheep. I see right through the SNP and so should any thinking Scot. 

 The ramblings of the defeated!!!

 

Its the sound of inevitability. 

[gjcc]

2 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Can the British negotiators really have ignored this 😮

FTFY. 

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Newton51 said:

Good news! We do know they tend to ignore legal advice. Look at the prorogue of parliament 

 

So what happens if their bill includes a repeal of said act in the same vote?

 

Desperation tactics here who clearly want to throw Scotland into a No Deal over any deal Westminster could agree.

[Footballfirst]

Here's how the customs legal issue will be worked around, basically by saying that N Ireland is outside the customs union, but has different arrangements with the EU.  I would guess that the DUP could just about live with that as it would allow them to adopt their "No Surrender Act" position.

 

Alberto Nardelli @AlbertoNardelli

NEW: This is where I understand the Brexit talks, and details of the agreement under discussion, to be at:

1) Northern Ireland would be part of the UK's customs territory, however it would follow EU customs rules (ie no customs border on the island of Ireland).

 

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1184555609506668544

[ri Alban]

Twa weeks!

[shaun.lawson]

6 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

So what happens if their bill includes a repeal of said act in the same vote?

 

Desperation tactics here who clearly want to throw Scotland into a No Deal over any deal Westminster could agree.

 

Frank, with the utmost respect, what Jo Maugham is doing has precisely zero, nothing, to do with "wanting to throw Scotland into a No Deal". It's called upholding the rule of law. A clearly far-fetched idea in the UK in 2019, I know - but still... 

[AlimOzturk]

I am assuming any deal struck would have to go through parliment again? Doubt any labour MP would vote for any deal proposed by boris nor will those MPs he has sacked.

 

 

[ri Alban]

5 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

I am assuming any deal struck would have to go through parliment again? Doubt any labour MP would vote for any deal proposed by boris nor will those MPs he has sacked.

 

 

You'll be surprised.

[shaun.lawson]

22 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

I am assuming any deal struck would have to go through parliment again? Doubt any labour MP would vote for any deal proposed by boris nor will those MPs he has sacked.

 

 

 

A significant number of both groups may well do so. 

[ri Alban]

DUP leader Mrs Doubtfire says her party can't support WA as it stands.

[frankblack]

59 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Frank, with the utmost respect, what Jo Maugham is doing has precisely zero, nothing, to do with "wanting to throw Scotland into a No Deal". It's called upholding the rule of law. A clearly far-fetched idea in the UK in 2019, I know - but still... 

 

I am curious why this court case is in Edinburgh rather than Belfast or London which are more relevant to those affected?

 

Seems like more sour grapes from the SNP who know any Brexit deal leaves their Indy 2 chances in tatters, and is the latest in a sequence of cases brought by them.

 

Its not clear if Boris has a deal to present to parliament but there is a trend of politically motivated court cases trying to subvert democracy that doesn't sit well with me.

[Justin Z]

47 minutes ago, frankblack said:

Its not clear if Boris has a deal to present to parliament but there is a trend of politically motivated court cases trying to subvert democracy that doesn't sit well with me.

 

When there is a possibility that proposals break existing law, especially constitutional precepts, it's for courts to decide.

 

If you shred the rules of the democracy in the name of upholding democracy, there is nothing to base anything on and the whole house of cards tumbles down.

 

Regardless of the motivation, challenging government action in front of a neutral tribunal definitionally cannot be the subversion of democracy. Crucially, people you don't like, doing things you don't like, in an effort to determine what is lawful, is not subverting democracy.

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Justin Z

[The Real Maroonblood]

14 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

When there is a possibility that proposals break existing law, especially constitutional precepts, it's for courts to decide.

 

If you shred the rules of the democracy in the name of upholding democracy, there is nothing to base anything on and the whole house of cards tumbles down.

 

Regardless of the motivation, challenging government action in front of a neutral tribunal definitionally cannot be the subversion of democracy. Crucially, people you don't like, doing things you don't like, in an effort to determine what is lawful, is not subverting democracy.

 

[Brighton Jambo]

I was and am a remainer and certainly not a leaver who just wants Brexit done never mind the damage.  I also understand that those of you with stronger views will criticise what I am about to say.  

 

But...I am absolutely sick of the DUP and their ability to frustrate this process.  I recognise the border issues of course I do but this latest rejection including clarity on VAT has really hacked me off.  They have far to much influence and if I am starting to get to a position in my mind of ‘f@ck them’ let’s get this done no matter what it means for Northern Ireland I can only imagine what hardened leave voters are saying.  

 

I shocked at how much anger I feel towards the DUP this morning.  And before you all start blaming Boris, Tories etc I know it’s ultimately their falling but we seemed genuinely close to a deal until now and one thing I do know is I just want this done so we can get on with bigger more important things.  

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

13 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I was and am a remainer and certainly not a leaver who just wants Brexit done never mind the damage.  I also understand that those of you with stronger views will criticise what I am about to say.  

 

But...I am absolutely sick of the DUP and their ability to frustrate this process.  I recognise the border issues of course I do but this latest rejection including clarity on VAT has really hacked me off.  They have far to much influence and if I am starting to get to a position in my mind of ‘f@ck them’ let’s get this done no matter what it means for Northern Ireland I can only imagine what hardened leave voters are saying.  

 

I shocked at how much anger I feel towards the DUP this morning.  And before you all start blaming Boris, Tories etc I know it’s ultimately their falling but we seemed genuinely close to a deal until now and one thing I do know is I just want this done so we can get on with bigger more important things.  

They should hand back the huge bribe the tories gave them then.

[Justin Z]

12 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I shocked at how much anger I feel towards the DUP this morning.  And before you all start blaming Boris, Tories etc I know it’s ultimately their falling but we seemed genuinely close to a deal until now and one thing I do know is I just want this done so we can get on with bigger more important things.  

 

You do know. You know it's Tories who enabled them in the first place in a shameless power grab. And you know it's Tories who are seeking to give them an even bigger bung than May did. The DUP should have remained consigned to the dustbin of present and history, and a party who valued its country over itself would have ensured that.

 

But yeah, I think anybody with any sense, Leave or Remain, is entirely fed up with the DUP.

 

[Mikey1874]

The big problem for this Government is relationship with the DUP.

 

Their actual, real objection - N.Ireland having a new relationship with EU that gradually weakens the attachment to Britain - isn't going away. 

 

And the compromise we have, as above has to happen to avoid a 'hard border'. 

 

Impasse. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

They should hand back the huge bribe the tories gave them then.

Good point.

[Don Dan]

If by some miracle the numbers stack in up in favour of this deal (whatever it is) and it gets voted through what will the DUP do? (Slightly rhetorical). They could lose everything.  

[Victorian]

The DUP are sub-human filth.    Basically.

[Justin Z]

45 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The DUP are sub-human filth.    Basically.

 

Naw. They're arseholes. They're not "sub-human"--that's the language of arseholes, so no need for a perfectly reasonable, decent person to utilise it here.

[Mikey1874]

The Government might still actually just be looking to get an election, then force through No Deal. On the other hand polls say it's an easy election victory if they pass a deal first. 

 

Media are reporting that MPs are being presented with the deal and whether they would support it. But moving away from keeping employment, economic and environmental rights make it much more unlikely enough Labour MPs would support it.

 

Back to square one. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Don Dan]

Deal Apparently!!! 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Dannie Boy

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Deal Apparently!!! 

 

You reckon?

[DETTY29]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

You reckon?

RTE's EU correspondent has tweeted so (according to 5L) and he is apparently closest journalist to any negotiation outputs..

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by DETTY29

[Don Dan]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

You reckon?

many news feeds and twitter reporting a deal has been reached. Obviously it’s got to get past the various Parliaments. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, DETTY29 said:

RTE's EU correspondent has tweeted so (according to 5L) and he is apparently closest journalist to any deals.

 

 

 

I'll believe it when the uk leaves the eu with a deal!

[The Real Maroonblood]

A new deal.

Utopia.

[Don Dan]

PM Boris Johnson says the UK and EU have agreed "great new deal" for Brexit
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.
You can receive Breaking News on a smartphone or tablet via the BBC News App. You can also follow @BBCBreaking on Twitter to get the latest alerts.

 

 

sorry for the advert  😳 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

many news feeds and twitter reporting a deal has been reached. Obviously it’s got to get past the various Parliaments. 

 

I see it coming through now, fair enough for that part. It's not getting through parliament though. 

[DETTY29]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'll believe it when the uk leaves the eu with a deal!

That's a different story. 

 

Johnson/EU deal agreed that Johnson reckons the EU Council will approve.

 

That said EU did say nothing to go to their Council unless Johnson's figures in Westminster stand up.

 

DUP saying position hasn't changed.

Edited October 17, 2019 by DETTY29

[Don Dan]

DUP still not happy. 
it will be down to the other MPs in Westminster to vote it through. What chance that!? 

[Mikey1874]

9 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Deal Apparently!!! 

 

EU and Boris Johnson saying there is a deal. 

 

Still needs approved in Parliament and DUP still not in agreement.

[The Mighty Thor]

It's a deal.

 

 

 

 

 

But the DUP still say no.

 

Baw jaws has just crashed on regardless and could be throwing the flat earthers under the bus?

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

Fact is with possible deal on cards all Boris would need to do is have election the country would vote him in with ease. People are sick of Labour saying must have a deal then voting down every deal, SNP have their Scotland is alone mandate so will vote a deal down just to create that scenario, Lib Dems are remain and vote a deal down to scupper Brexit. Boris puts forward a deal he wins, it goes thru or not.. I know the deadline is coming up but a deal a month later is hardly worse thing in world. EU will not offer a good deal so take whats on offer and move on, stalling is just annoying us all, the more stalling the bigger the Tory vote will be.

[Don Dan]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I see it coming through now, fair enough for that part. It's not getting through parliament though. 

who knows, DUP against it, SNP will not vote for it, LibDems? Labour? Others? will others agree 

[Mikey1874]

 

[Brighton Jambo]

On 01/10/2019 at 21:22, shaun.lawson said:

 

Well done on completely proving my point. Margaret Hodge:

 

1. Covered up a child abuse scandal

 

2. Her family's company paid 0.01% tax

 

3. Beat the BNP in Barking by, er, copying all their policies

 

4. Secretly taped a conversation with her own leader

 

5. Has manipulated, exaggerated and flat out bullshitted about Labour's 'antisemitism crisis' for political gain. 

 

In my life observing British politics, I've never seen anything that gets anywhere close to the absolute nonsense surrounding Labour's 'antisemitism': despite all data showing it to be much lower on the left than on the right; despite it having fallen in Labour since Corbyn became leader; despite the far right rising and no-one doing a damn thing about it. And I say that as the grandson of a Holocaust survivor who lost most of her extended family in the camps. 

 

This is what Hodge said about Corbyn in 2016:

 

 

What changed after that? Labour did much, much better than anyone expected at the general election - so the self-serving Labour right realised that the left were here to stay. Cue a disgusting, never-ending campaign of lies: which you, because you've not bothered to look at the evidence, you've not bothered to look at the research, because data is just too much like hard work for you, have swallowed completely. 

 

You think that the deselection of someone who abused her own leader in public - then lied about it - covered up child abuse and copied racist policies is "absolutely scandalous". That makes you the perfect illustration of the problem here. Yet another poster who thinks they're sensible and yet does not have the first clue. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50077384

 

and another one.  Not fit to be leader she says.  As well as “

"Jewish members have been bullied, abused and driven out," Dame Louise added in her letter. 

"A party that permits anti-Jewish racism to flourish cannot be called anti-racist.

"This is not compatible with the Labour Party's values of equality, tolerance and respect for minorities.

"My values - traditional Labour values - have remained the same. It is Labour, under Jeremy Corbyn, that has changed."

 

no doubt you will find reason to discredit her as well.  Maybe time to get your head out the sand and wake up to what’s happening in labour.  

 

P.s.  I know this isn’t brexit related per se and won’t be continuing this line of discussion.  

Edited October 17, 2019 by Brighton Jambo

[Mikey1874]

 

[Mikey1874]

 

This