Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[RobboM]

11 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Extraordinary.

 

This is a permanent impasse I feel. No deal has too much opposition, parliament won’t support the EU’s deal, trying to abandon the original vote will be virtually impossible too.

 

I’m yet to hear anyone come up with a solution which will please enough people to carry. We’re in the deepest hole going.

The compromise surely is that the Brexiteers put forward their preferred option and it is put to a referendum. More and more through this process I've become convinced of a need of a referendum on any deal in order to put the matter to bed for the Brexiteers as much as Remainers. Listening to Farage last week he said May's deal was worse than staying in the EU. He will ALWAYS claim a Brexit referendum betrayal unless the Brexit deal is actually endorsed by the public.

[Brighton Jambo]

9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Glad you clarified.

 

The poor and weak in this country are the ones who have taken an utter kicking in the last few years, I have no problem with the top tax band paying an extra 1% on part of their wages to help out. Proportionately there's still an awful lot more to do, I'd welcome further movement myself.

 

I also have no issue with the 46% rate.  But did you know people earning £26,000 pay more tax in Scotland than their equivalents in England.  Hardly the rich being hit there is it. 

[The Mighty Thor]

31 minutes ago, Victorian said:

At least in ensures that it goes to the Supreme Court for what presumably will be a final ajudication.    Parliament may well be recalled and/or ****wit may become liable to personal legal ramifications.

Add to that the fact that everyone involved in the original prorogation process must hand over all electronic communications on this to parliament by the end of today. 

 

There will be a few with a rabbit's nose today. 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Brighton Jambo said:

All those challenging me on the tax issue should read this article.   1.1m people in Scotland pay more tax than their equivalent in England.  Fine, no problem, that's not necessarily a bad thing, plenty of countries have a high tax economy and do very well (Scandinavia).   

 

And before people say its just the allowances increases not being passed on then no that is wrong, Scotland has higher tax rates than England (41% and 46%)

 

But why cant SNP supporters just own it, admit that is the direction of travel and support it, instead of coming on and, as usual, shouting how I am wrong etc etc.  I'm not wrong as according to latest statistics there are 2.5m tax payers in Scotland.  So roughly half pay more.  Lets not kid on its just the rich being hit as actually you pay more tax than England when you start earning £26,000. Hardly big money.

 

Just for once could someone on here who supports the SNP take ownership for a policy that many people don't like (for obvious reasons).

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/31/snp-hits-middle-high-earners-stealth-charge-top-income-tax-hikes/

 

UK tax is too low. 

 

Investment in infrastructure and public services has collapsed. SNP are making a small, slow move in the opposite direction.

 

But the 'I'm alright Jack' types certainly still have a strong voice. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Brighton Jambo said:

All those challenging me on the tax issue should read this article.   1.1m people in Scotland pay more tax than their equivalent in England.  Fine, no problem, that's not necessarily a bad thing, plenty of countries have a high tax economy and do very well (Scandinavia).   

 

And before people say its just the allowances increases not being passed on then no that is wrong, Scotland has higher tax rates than England (41% and 46%)

 

But why cant SNP supporters just own it, admit that is the direction of travel and support it, instead of coming on and, as usual, shouting how I am wrong etc etc.  I'm not wrong as according to latest statistics there are 2.5m tax payers in Scotland.  So roughly half pay more.  Lets not kid on its just the rich being hit as actually you pay more tax than England when you start earning £26,000. Hardly big money.

 

Just for once could someone on here who supports the SNP take ownership for a policy that many people don't like (for obvious reasons).

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/31/snp-hits-middle-high-earners-stealth-charge-top-income-tax-hikes/

 

I'm an independence supporter, I'm right behind taxing the comfortable more, the poor are the ones suffering. I mean actually suffering, food bank suffering, not having to downgrade the second car.

 

But this thread is about Brexit.

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Add to that the fact that everyone involved in the original prorogation process must hand over all electronic communications on this to parliament by the end of today. 

 

There will be a few with a rabbit's nose today. 

 

Can't see that being done in accordance with the intended purpose of the parliamentary decision.      I think they will drag it out and force MPs to take it through the courts.      This government doesn't recognise parliamentary decisions.

[Brighton Jambo]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

UK tax is too low. 

 

Investment in infrastructure and public services has collapsed. SNP are making a small, slow move in the opposite direction.

 

But the 'I'm alright Jack' types certainly still have a strong voice. 

I fundamentally disagree that tax increases is the way to raise money to pay for investment in infrastructure or public services.  I would rather a relatively low tax economy that stimulates economic growth and brings money in that way.  However both approaches are valid and please don't take that as me criticising your views.  Its just I have a more right wing perspective to the economy than you!

 

At least you have been the first person to 'own' the policy and back it rather than deny its existence so I doth my imaginary cap to you!

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I also have no issue with the 46% rate.  But did you know people earning £26,000 pay more tax in Scotland than their equivalents in England.  Hardly the rich being hit there is it. 

I didn't say that, I said I have no problem with the comfortable taking a bit more of the burden while the poor can't feed their families.

 

But again, this is a Brexit thread. 

[Boris]

8 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

All those challenging me on the tax issue should read this article.   1.1m people in Scotland pay more tax than their equivalent in England.  Fine, no problem, that's not necessarily a bad thing, plenty of countries have a high tax economy and do very well (Scandinavia).   

 

And before people say its just the allowances increases not being passed on then no that is wrong, Scotland has higher tax rates than England (41% and 46%)

 

But why cant SNP supporters just own it, admit that is the direction of travel and support it, instead of coming on and, as usual, shouting how I am wrong etc etc.  I'm not wrong as according to latest statistics there are 2.5m tax payers in Scotland.  So roughly half pay more.  Lets not kid on its just the rich being hit as actually you pay more tax than England when you start earning £26,000. Hardly big money.

 

Just for once could someone on here who supports the SNP take ownership for a policy that many people don't like (for obvious reasons).

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/31/snp-hits-middle-high-earners-stealth-charge-top-income-tax-hikes/

 

I didn't know that the SNP government had raised those tax rates.  When did that happen?  Genuine question!  I was of the mind that they simply hadn't reduced them in line with Westminster.

 

I'm all for people paying their dues, progressively, and would full out go after companies that use off shore etc - tax avoidance schemes etc.

 

Anyway, Brexit...

 

 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I fundamentally disagree that tax increases is the way to raise money to pay for investment in infrastructure or public services.  I would rather a relatively low tax economy that stimulates economic growth and brings money in that way.  However both approaches are valid and please don't take that as me criticising your views.  Its just I have a more right wing perspective to the economy than you!

 

At least you have been the first person to 'own' the policy and back it rather than deny its existence so I doth my imaginary cap to you!

 

Redistributing the tax burden increases economic growth.     Allowing lower to moderate earners to keep more of their earnings to spend in the real economy.    Allowing higher earning,   already wealthy people lower taxes only creates the accumulation of more captive wealth,   which does not benefit the real economy to anywhere near the same degree.    

[Mikey1874]

10 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I fundamentally disagree that tax increases is the way to raise money to pay for investment in infrastructure or public services.  I would rather a relatively low tax economy that stimulates economic growth and brings money in that way.  However both approaches are valid and please don't take that as me criticising your views.  Its just I have a more right wing perspective to the economy than you!

 

At least you have been the first person to 'own' the policy and back it rather than deny its existence so I doth my imaginary cap to you!

 

We could produce a much better tax system between us with our different positions. A balanced, modern system. 

 

As someone who views Corbyn and McDonnell as old fashioned and pretty moderate in many ways, I still also believe it is a major error to just say 'tax the rich'. Why the SNP changes are more balanced in also asking more of middle earners. 

 

Tax rates should also be aligned to avoid disincentives. We should be growing the economy and there is massive potential particularly if you widen opportunities. Higher allowances and single say 30% tax rate is better than 60% tax for higher earners albeit I like the windfall tax proposal on executive pay and favour wealth taxes. 

 

But maybe we can do another thread. Brexit is relevant because the No Deal people seem to want to just favour the rich. 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Mikey1874

[RobboM]

16 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

.....

 

But why cant SNP supporters just own it, admit that is the direction of travel and support it, instead of coming on and, as usual, shouting how I am wrong etc etc.  I'm not wrong as according to latest statistics there are 2.5m tax payers in Scotland.  So roughly half pay more.  Lets not kid on its just the rich being hit as actually you pay more tax than England when you start earning £26,000. Hardly big money.

 

Just for once could someone on here who supports the SNP take ownership for a policy that many people don't like (for obvious reasons).

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/31/snp-hits-middle-high-earners-stealth-charge-top-income-tax-hikes/

Disagree with you on your attitude to tax but 100% agree on this point and made a similar one last week in regard of Rees Mogg rubbishing a medical expert in the Yellowhammer document. Rees Mogg should have been saying we've taken expert advice, decided to press on knowing the potential consequences and will take full responsibiltiy if those warnings come to pass.

[Mikey1874]

11 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

I didn't know that the SNP government had raised those tax rates.  When did that happen?  Genuine question!  I was of the mind that they simply hadn't reduced them in line with Westminster.

 

I'm all for people paying their dues, progressively, and would full out go after companies that use off shore etc - tax avoidance schemes etc.

 

Anyway, Brexit...

 

 

 

Made changes a couple of years ago. Part of new powers on tax.

 

Summarised here

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-46546874

[XB52]

37 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

They increased the tax rate for the 40% band to 41% and top rate band from 45 to 46%.  That is increasing taxes. 

Sorry, assumed you were talking about the latest tax cut by the tories so you are correct. Of course you will be starting a new thread about how disgraceful it is that the low paid in England pay More tax than in Scotland?? Do you agree that those who can afford it should pay more tax??

[Boris]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Made changes a couple of years ago. Part of new powers on tax.

 

Summarised here

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-46546874

 

Thanks. So, if I have understood that right, it was the thresholds that changed and not the rates themselves?  Semantic, I guess as thresholds is another way to reduce/increase tax?

[XB52]

29 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

All those challenging me on the tax issue should read this article.   1.1m people in Scotland pay more tax than their equivalent in England.  Fine, no problem, that's not necessarily a bad thing, plenty of countries have a high tax economy and do very well (Scandinavia).   

 

And before people say its just the allowances increases not being passed on then no that is wrong, Scotland has higher tax rates than England (41% and 46%)

 

But why cant SNP supporters just own it, admit that is the direction of travel and support it, instead of coming on and, as usual, shouting how I am wrong etc etc.  I'm not wrong as according to latest statistics there are 2.5m tax payers in Scotland.  So roughly half pay more.  Lets not kid on its just the rich being hit as actually you pay more tax than England when you start earning £26,000. Hardly big money.

 

Just for once could someone on here who supports the SNP take ownership for a policy that many people don't like (for obvious reasons).

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/31/snp-hits-middle-high-earners-stealth-charge-top-income-tax-hikes/

26000 is incorrect but of course I think that the better off should pay more tax

[Cade]

SNP also raised the allowance threshold for income tax, lowering taxes for everybody.

The only people paying more tax under the new framework are those that are already well off.

 

55% of the population will be paying less tax.

The other 45% are seeing tiny increases.

 

If you earn £26,000, you will see no change.

If you earn £33,000, you will pay £70 a year more. That's £5.83 a month.

If you earn £150,000, you will pay £1,774 a year more. That's £147.83 a month.

If your finances are tight enough that these figure make you destitute, then you were clearly living far beyond your means to start with.

 

Let's get back to Boris being a shyster and his government being a shambles, shall we?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Cade

[Boris]

Just now, Cade said:

 

 

Let's get back to Boris being a shyster

 

 

 

 

[Brighton Jambo]

Just now, XB52 said:

Sorry, assumed you were talking about the latest tax cut by the tories so you are correct. Of course you will be starting a new thread about how disgraceful it is that the low paid in England pay More tax than in Scotland?? Do you agree that those who can afford it should pay more tax??

100% yes, I have no issue with higher earners paying more. 

 

And yes new thread incoming.......!!!!

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Thanks. So, if I have understood that right, it was the thresholds that changed and not the rates themselves?  Semantic, I guess as thresholds is another way to reduce/increase tax?

 

Yes

 

And as said above the other big change is not following the UK increase in the 40% level so you pay more tax in Scotland compared to England if you earn over £43,430 (allowance is now £50,000 ie when start paying 40%).

[jack D and coke]

54 minutes ago, XB52 said:

That's the English edition

 

Explains it. 

[Mikey1874]

If Supreme Court affirms today's Court of Session decision they will also say what should happen i.e. to say Parliament must reopen and possibly say when..

 

Judgement likely to be Monday 23 September week of the Labour Party conference . Tory Party conference might be disrupted. 

 

Might depend on Queen's holiday plans. 

[...a bit disco]

44 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

The bridge ideas awful. The last thing Scotland needs is bigots given freedom to travel and make it easier for them to settle in this Country bringing all their shite with them. No thanks.

 

35 miles and 1000 feet deep.

 

All by October 31st.

[Cruyff Turn]

15 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said:

 

35 miles and 1000 feet deep.

 

All by October 31st.

October 31st 2119. 

 

It would take 50 years to clear all the munitions. 😄

[Victorian]

I think I saw a figure of £15bn being ventured for that bridge idea.

 

   ****ing no chance.    Add a zero before or after the 5 and it might be nearer.   

[annushorribilis III]

Just now, Victorian said:

I think I saw a figure of £15bn being ventured for that bridge idea.

 

   ****ing no chance.    Add a zero before or after the 5 and it might be nearer.   

Marine engineer on Twitter - parts of the sea are 1000 feet deep. Any bridge would require the biggest bridge supports ever built, by far. 

[RobboM]

The Northern ireland bridge chat sounds just like a Trump tactic of trying to change the conversation from one car crash to another

[AlphonseCapone]

There aren't enough tax increases in this country. 

 

Wasn't the bridge idea already found not to be viable? 

[Victorian]

Norman Smith saying he thinks it likely parliament will be recalled this week.

 

Just don't see it somehow.    

[Cruyff Turn]

10 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Marine engineer on Twitter - parts of the sea are 1000 feet deep. Any bridge would require the biggest bridge supports ever built, by far. 

With absolutely tonnes of unexploded munitions, in one of the choppiest sea’s or Chanels on the planet. If it ever happened and that’s an enormous IF, it would be open about twice a year. 🤣

[EC_Hearts]

48 minutes ago, Cade said:

SNP also raised the allowance threshold for income tax, lowering taxes for everybody.

The only people paying more tax under the new framework are those that are already well off.

 

55% of the population will be paying less tax.

The other 45% are seeing tiny increases.

 

If you earn £26,000, you will see no change.

If you earn £33,000, you will pay £70 a year more. That's £5.83 a month.

If you earn £150,000, you will pay £1,774 a year more. That's £147.83 a month.

If your finances are tight enough that these figure make you destitute, then you were clearly living far beyond your means to start with.

 

Let's get back to Boris being a shyster and his government being a shambles, shall we?

 

 

 

 

Appreciate this is not the main topic but the figures shown are a bit skewed. Someone earning just over £50,000 in Scotland will pay about £135 per month more than their equivalent in England. Nowadays with shift allowances, etc I wouldn't class £50,000 as a "salary of the rich", just the usual situation of middle earners being clobbered by government, but a fair bit more up here. Would just like to know what they do with it?

[Cade]

[redjambo]

14 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Marine engineer on Twitter - parts of the sea are 1000 feet deep. Any bridge would require the biggest bridge supports ever built, by far. 

 

Build the supports on large barges!

[Cruyff Turn]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Build the supports on large barges!

Aye that would work.. 👀

[Cruyff Turn]

Number 10 pretending that Scots Law is some pretendy law when it’s probably the basis of all Law systems in the developed world. 🤦🏻‍♂️ 

[Martin_T]

Has Dominic Cummings ever explained what exactly it was he was doing when he spent 3 years living in Russia?

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Number 10 pretending that Scots Law is some pretendy law when it’s probably the basis of all Law systems in the developed world. 🤦🏻‍♂️ 

 

That's the reaction I expected.    That Scottish law would be assumed or inferred to be inferior.     It's the natural psychology.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

12 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Build the supports on large barges!

Then float them off to cloud cuckoo land along with Boris ☺️

[Martin_T]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

That's the reaction I expected.    That Scottish law would be assumed or inferred to be inferior.     It's the natural psychology.

 

It's the natural  Bannon / Breitbart/ Trump / Fake News / Populist response, call into question the legitimacy of the source and thus blur the public's perception of what is factual or real.

[DETTY29]

8 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Number 10 pretending that Scots Law is some pretendy law when it’s probably the basis of all Law systems in the developed world. 🤦🏻‍♂️ 

 

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

That's the reaction I expected.    That Scottish law would be assumed or inferred to be inferior.     It's the natural psychology.

Only the UK Supreme Court is considered a higher authority?

 

Apologies if wrong, but this is why we need to get out of this so called union of equals.

Edited September 11, 2019 by DETTY29

[AlphonseCapone]

23 minutes ago, EC_Hearts said:

Appreciate this is not the main topic but the figures shown are a bit skewed. Someone earning just over £50,000 in Scotland will pay about £135 per month more than their equivalent in England. Nowadays with shift allowances, etc I wouldn't class £50,000 as a "salary of the rich", just the usual situation of middle earners being clobbered by government, but a fair bit more up here. Would just like to know what they do with it?

 

Maybe you wouldn't, but it's significantly higher than the median income in this country.

[Mikey1874]

On 09/09/2019 at 16:14, Cade said:

Who'll replace Bercow?

 

Skinner?

Mogg?

 

Clarke?

 

On 09/09/2019 at 16:19, ri Alban said:

Pete Wishart The Tories would be raging.

 

Pete Wishart NOT going for Speaker job

 

 

[Cruyff Turn]

1 minute ago, DETTY29 said:

 

Only the UK Supreme Court is considered a higher authority?

 

Apologies if wrong, but this is why we need to get out of this so called union of equals.

Yes, only the Supreme Court is higher than the Scots Court of Session.

 

Scots Civil Courts have created precedents in not only U.K. law but in Law worldwide, for example, - “The Snail in the Bottle Case” - Donoghue v Stevenson, 1932,  which was on the basis of Delict or Delictum. A case that every trainee law student from Edinburgh to Mumbai would have studied at some point.

 

Yet they like to pretend that every part of the Union must follow England at every turn.

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

That's the reaction I expected.    That Scottish law would be assumed or inferred to be inferior.     It's the natural psychology.

It’s just part of their deep ingrained racism towards Scotland. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Cade]

Well to be fair, the UK Supreme court is superior to any other court in the land.

 

That's not the point being argued about.

The point being argued about is that sources in #10 are claiming that the Scottish courts have been showing political bias.

 

[redjambo]

12 minutes ago, Cade said:

Well to be fair, the UK Supreme court is superior to any other court in the land.

 

That's not the point being argued about.

The point being argued about is that sources in #10 are claiming that the Scottish courts have been showing political bias.

 

 

#10 seems to be backtracking now and saying that isn't the case.

 

Our judges are renowned around the world for their excellence and impartiality and I have total confidence in their independence in every case.

— Robert Buckland QC MP

 

I guess they're a mite worried now about the political consequences of slagging off the Court of Session judges.

[JackLadd]

A remoaner judge up here thinks he's billy big baws. No doubt concerned about his holiday homes.

[Boris]

12 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

A remoaner judge up here thinks he's billy big baws. No doubt concerned about his holiday homes.

 

All three of them...

 

[graygo]

11 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

A remoaner judge up here thinks he's billy big baws. No doubt concerned about his holiday homes.

 

Someone less ignorant would know that it was a decision made by 3 judges.

[JackLadd]

4 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Someone less ignorant would know that it was a decision made by 3 judges.

 

Three mini Gina Millers with attitude.

[Boris]

3 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Three mini Gina Millers with attitude.

 

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.