Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[The Real Maroonblood]

12 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Boycott fittingly knighted on the day democracy is boycotted.

😀

[Rudy T]

42 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Labour will begin to arrest the ever widening wealth gap between the tiny minority and the large percentage who struggle to have anything.     Given enough time they will do their best to reverse the gross inequalities that the Tories encourage.     Labour will also supervise business and industry from the macro down to the lower levels in order to ensure exploitation and malpractice is policed properly.

 

The difficult bit is gaining power in the first place.     Trying to get the message over to people that they will be better off under a government who cares about social justice should be straight forward,   but nowadays it is far from it.    Brexit will overshadow domestic political and economic policy for some time.     It's also not easy to convince people to look beyond the communist,   terrorist jibes.     

 

 Has this ever happened under numerous labour governments... history suggests the country ends up bankrupt after they get power?

[AlimOzturk]

59 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Labour will begin to arrest the ever widening wealth gap between the tiny minority and the large percentage who struggle to have anything.     Given enough time they will do their best to reverse the gross inequalities that the Tories encourage.     Labour will also supervise business and industry from the macro down to the lower levels in order to ensure exploitation and malpractice is policed properly.

 

The difficult bit is gaining power in the first place.     Trying to get the message over to people that they will be better off under a government who cares about social justice should be straight forward,   but nowadays it is far from it.    Brexit will overshadow domestic political and economic policy for some time.     It's also not easy to convince people to look beyond the communist,   terrorist jibes.     

 

A very much conservative leaning media majority does help. I agree that a strong labour party is needed but not under corbyn 

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

 Has this ever happened under numerous labour governments... history suggests the country ends up bankrupt after they get power?

 

The last Labour government was not exactly of the same model.    It was certainly implicated in,   but not anywhere near fully responsible for the financial sector crash.

 

It is a very long time since the last Labour government that was comparible with what would be Corbyn government.     Trade Union power has been rightly rowed back from a stranglehold over Labour to a position of productive influence.     There will never be a repeat of previous excesses in terms of governmental borrowing,   unsustainably high personal taxation,  inflation and unemployment.    The present day market economy does not allow for it.     Labour will renationalise key public services where there is a clear national interest,    but it will not renationalise loss making industries that do not fit that criteria.     Mainly due to large manufacturing and fuel extraction industries being a thing of the past.    

 

What Labour can do is to apply some traditional socialist philosophy to the modern economy,   tailored to meet the national interest and to learn the lessons of past failure.

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

A very much conservative leaning media majority does help. I agree that a strong labour party is needed but not under corbyn 

 

I think it does still need Corbyn because the Labour machinery of activism wants and demands him.    When he goes,   those people will want a replacement similar to Corbyn.     They wont accept the new Tony Blair without a fight.

[Mikey1874]

45 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

 Has this ever happened under numerous labour governments... history suggests the country ends up bankrupt after they get power?

 

Cameron Government 2010 to 2015 doubled the national debt. From £750 billion to £1.5 trillion. 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Rudy T]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Cameron Government 2010 to 2015 doubled the national debt. From £750 million to £1.5 billion. 

 

I’m sure they did, not sure how that’s relevant to what Victorian was suggesting Corbyns labour would do in power.

[Mikey1874]

15 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

I’m sure they did, not sure how that’s relevant to what Victorian was suggesting Corbyns labour would do in power.

 

So you agree the Tories bankrupted Britain between 2010 and 2015.

 

Your word. 

[Rudy T]

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

So you agree the Tories bankrupted Britain between 2010 and 2015.

 

Your word. 

 

Still not quite understanding what point your trying to make? I think your perhaps off at a tangent here. I was interested in hearing more on Victorians summary of Corbyns labour. It appears, from the polls certainly, that the British electorate aren’t sold on what he and his party bring.

[hughesie27]

7 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

So labour have announced they won’t but a clear remain versus leave direction in their manifesto.  It also looks like in the event they get into power they would get a new deal (seems unlikely given EU stance) then potentially campaign against their own deal.  

 

They are letting this this country down on the most spectacular level and it is a disgrace they aren’t about to win an election.   It’s almost inconceivable they are so far behind in the polls and this latest news will only compound that.  

I mean that is effectively what Cameron and the Tory party had in their Manifesto in 2016.

[Jambo, Goodbye]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Cameron Government 2010 to 2015 doubled the national debt. From £750 billion to £1.5 trillion. 

 

This is a truly concerted effort to conceal the truth. The big picture is far more complicated. Unless you don't understand why the debt rose? 

 

The 2008 crash, the poor recovery of the GDP, the 2009/2010 peak of Net borrowing that was around 10% are why the debt rose. The Tories, like them or loathe them, have reduced Net borrowing every year. Looking at the big picture, it's labour who caused the increase in national debt. You can't expect incoming governments to prevent this, even over 5 years. It takes years to eliminate a deficit as high as Labour's one. 

 

I'm not a Tory btw, so if you're gonna bash them, at least choose one of the bajillion truly awful things you can actually bash them with. 

[AlphonseCapone]

7 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Cameron Government 2010 to 2015 doubled the national debt. From £750 billion to £1.5 trillion. 

 

Of course, but that's because the deficit was gigantic and that needed dealt with before you'd be able to bring the debt down. 

 

Too many people still either don't know the difference between debt and deficit or intentionally use them to make political points. 

[The Mighty Thor]

Vote Tory get Farage.

 

I'm looking forward to the msm splashing the image of farage with boris peeking out the handkerchief pocket.

Edited September 11, 2019 by The Mighty Thor
.

[Pans Jambo]

26 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Vote Tory get Farage.

 

I'm looking forward to the msm splashing the image of farage with boris peeking out the handkerchief pocket.

Just look at that picture....this is what tory Braitain has become.

 

Look at them! Those two could be running the country in a few short weeks.

 

Gives me the boak.

 

Glad we will soon have an escape plan!

[Brighton Jambo]

15 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

If Brexit is deciding how you vote, fair enough. 

 

You can see the Manifestos to help make your mind up. This is Labour's recent policy list. 

 

 

So I was bored on the train and I added up the cost of the pledges.  I only used the figures quoted in this manifesto and then only the big numbers.  I assumed a 5 year term.  I then looked up the estimated costs for nationalisation and in each case picked the lowest estimates.  I also assumed no cost for Nationalising the railways which could in theory be true though unlikely but I wanted to be fair, I also assumed no cost for scrapping Trident though I know that would be circa £20 billion.   

 

By my estimation the lowest this manifesto would cost is £258 billion.  In reality it would be much  more but I cant fairly cost a lot of the other points.

 

That is an insane level of spending and why most people simply wont trust labour with the public purse. 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Brighton Jambo

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Vote Tory get Farage.

 

I'm looking forward to the msm splashing the image of farage with boris peeking out the handkerchief pocket.

 

 

Newspapers having wrap around front page advertising is one thing - having a paid for political advert/propaganda piece wrapped around it is another. 

 

The Express is an awful paper, a red top in disguise really.

[Victorian]

Sadly it is quite straight forward for the Tories and their media friends to counter Labour's vision for social and economic fairness.     All they have to do is appeal to / scare people along the lines of what Labour will mean to personal taxation,  property values,  inheritance tax,  stamp duty,  rise of trade union agitation,   SNP running the UK in a coalition,  etc.

 

People will swallow every lie going regarding their take home pay,  their mortgage and Scottish people having influence.    

[Boris]

Court of Session rule prorogation is illegal...

[jack D and coke]

47 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

 

Newspapers having wrap around front page advertising is one thing - having a paid for political advert/propaganda piece wrapped around it is another. 

 

The Express is an awful paper, a red top in disguise really.

Tbh I think that’s the first time I’ve seen it’s front page in about 5 years that doesn’t have some sort of “SNP bad” article splashed across it. 

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

Court of Session rule prorogation is illegal...

[Victorian]

Great stuff.    It's only a Scottish court so doesn't matter... people will be told... people will think... probably.   

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

Interesting, no idea what it means in reality.

 

Parliament opened back up? Bojo charged? 

 

More legal action and confusion i suspect.

 

A fair summary of uk politics 2019

[Victorian]

Government will surely appeal and it goes to Supreme Court?    Can't see that being a quick process.     

[redjambo]

17 minutes ago, Boris said:

Court of Session rule prorogation is illegal...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855

[AlimOzturk]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Government will surely appeal and it goes to Supreme Court?    Can't see that being a quick process.     

 

Tuesday at the earliest. 

[Mikey1874]

"Unlawful if intention was to stymie Parliamentary scrutiny...length was to prevent scrutiny"

 

Full ruling Friday.  Appeal is Tuesday. 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Brighton Jambo]

12 hours ago, Boris said:

When did the SNP raise tax?

 

 

Many people on this forum will be paying more tax living in Scotland under the SNP introduced tax bands than if they lived anywhere else in the UK.  I know I am.  So yes, the SNP have raised taxes.

[Victorian]

At least in ensures that it goes to the Supreme Court for what presumably will be a final ajudication.    Parliament may well be recalled and/or ****wit may become liable to personal legal ramifications.

[Cruyff Turn]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

At least in ensures that it goes to the Supreme Court for what presumably will be a final ajudication.    Parliament may well be recalled and/or ****wit may become liable to personal legal ramifications.

Boris might end up in the bighoose for using the Queen for illegal & political means. 🤦🏻‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

[Boris]

8 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Many people on this forum will be paying more tax living in Scotland under the SNP introduced tax bands than if they lived anywhere else in the UK.  I know I am.  So yes, the SNP have raised taxes.

 

No, they haven't.  You can't say I have raised tax because you have lowered yours!

[Victorian]

Just now, Cruyff Turn said:

Boris might end up in the bighoose for using the Queen for illegal & political means. 🤦🏻‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

 

Makes the release of all pre-prorogation communications all the more intriguing.

[Cruyff Turn]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

Makes the release of all pre-prorogation communications all the more intriguing.

Indeed and going by the re-dacted leak, it won’t be pretty for Worzel Gummidge.

[Pans Jambo]

12 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Many people on this forum will be paying more tax living in Scotland under the SNP introduced tax bands than if they lived anywhere else in the UK.  I know I am.  So yes, the SNP have raised taxes.

Well yeah, I am one of them. I pay a slightly higher rate than my colleagues (I work for an English based company) but this is not because the SNP raised taxes. They simply didnt LOWER them when the tories did.

Of course this only applies to folk on the 40% tax threshold as the folk below that will actually pay LESS tax than elsewhere in the UK.

 

EDIT: See Boris beat me to it.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Pans Jambo

[redjambo]

5 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Boris might end up in the bighoose for using the Queen for illegal & political means. 🤦🏻‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

 

Wouldn't that need a criminal case? This is just a civil case.

[Pans Jambo]

The shite hoose must stay open!

[Cruyff Turn]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

Wouldn't that need a criminal case? This is just a civil case.

Civil cases can become criminal cases if there is proof that a crime has been committed.

[Brighton Jambo]

6 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

No, they haven't.  You can't say I have raised tax because you have lowered yours!

They increased the tax rate for the 40% band to 41%.  That is increasing taxes. 

[Brighton Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Well yeah, I am one of them. I pay a slightly higher rate than my colleagues (I work for an English based company) but this is not because the SNP raised taxes. They simply didnt LOWER them when the tories did.

Of course this only applies to folk on the 40% tax threshold as the folk below that will actually pay LESS tax than elsewhere in the UK.

 

EDIT: See Boris beat me to it.

They increased the tax rate for the 40% band to 41%.  That is increasing taxes. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Extraordinary.

 

This is a permanent impasse I feel. No deal has too much opposition, parliament won’t support the EU’s deal, trying to abandon the original vote will be virtually impossible too.

 

I’m yet to hear anyone come up with a solution which will please enough people to carry. We’re in the deepest hole going.

[I P Knightley]

46 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Allegedly building a bridge between Northern Ireland and Scotland is the latest tact to solve the NI problem and strengthen the union.

 

**** knows how that works.

 

Potentially good news for some Celtic and rangers fans though🤷🏻‍♂️

I think you've been picking up your news from the Daily Mash.

 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Civil cases can become criminal cases if there is proof that a crime has been committed.

 

    I think it helps build a case that ****wit has acted 'ultra vires' to his office.    

[XB52]

40 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Tbh I think that’s the first time I’ve seen it’s front page in about 5 years that doesn’t have some sort of “SNP bad” article splashed across it. 

That's the English edition

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

I think you've been picking up your news from the Daily Mash.

 

 

Mental idea 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Mikey1874

[XB52]

22 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Many people on this forum will be paying more tax living in Scotland under the SNP introduced tax bands than if they lived anywhere else in the UK.  I know I am.  So yes, the SNP have raised taxes.

No they have not, they have refused to pass on tory tax cuts. 

[Brighton Jambo]

1 minute ago, XB52 said:

No they have not, they have refused to pass on tory tax cuts. 

They increased the tax rate for the 40% band to 41% and top rate band from 45 to 46%.  That is increasing taxes. 

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

They increased the tax rate for the 40% band to 41%.  That is increasing taxes. 

 

Glad you clarified.

 

The poor and weak in this country are the ones who have taken an utter kicking in the last few years, I have no problem with the top tax band paying an extra 1% on part of their wages to help out. Proportionately there's still an awful lot more to do, I'd welcome further movement myself.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

8 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

I think you've been picking up your news from the Daily Mash.

 

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/arlene-foster-to-ask-scots-to-back-bridge-to-northern-ireland-37065092.html

[I P Knightley]

10 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Mental idea 

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/arlene-foster-to-ask-scots-to-back-bridge-to-northern-ireland-37065092.html

 

Good God!! I'd seen it mentioned on Twitter but (naturally) assumed - with Boris's record on bridge-building - that it was a comedy effort.

 

I feel like giving up

[Cruyff Turn]

The bridge ideas awful. The last thing Scotland needs is bigots given freedom to travel and make it easier for them to settle in this Country bringing all their shite with them. No thanks.

[Brighton Jambo]

All those challenging me on the tax issue should read this article.   1.1m people in Scotland pay more tax than their equivalent in England.  Fine, no problem, that's not necessarily a bad thing, plenty of countries have a high tax economy and do very well (Scandinavia).   

 

And before people say its just the allowances increases not being passed on then no that is wrong, Scotland has higher tax rates than England (41% and 46%)

 

But why cant SNP supporters just own it, admit that is the direction of travel and support it, instead of coming on and, as usual, shouting how I am wrong etc etc.  I'm not wrong as according to latest statistics there are 2.5m tax payers in Scotland.  So roughly half pay more.  Lets not kid on its just the rich being hit as actually you pay more tax than England when you start earning £26,000. Hardly big money.

 

Just for once could someone on here who supports the SNP take ownership for a policy that many people don't like (for obvious reasons).

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/31/snp-hits-middle-high-earners-stealth-charge-top-income-tax-hikes/