Governor Tarkin Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 hours ago, shaun.lawson said: So... Brexit's still going well I see. My advice to the good Scottish people: run, Scotland! Run for the hills! What about the arsehole Scottish people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montgomery Brewster Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 24 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Maybe the wrong time to comment since we're on to Independence. But as long as this Government takes responsibility for the fall out from No Deal and doesn't hold an early general election before that, then what they have done today isn't so bad aside from maximising the time. It's right the new Johnston Government puts forward it's new legislative programme. And he can put forward his new Deal as part of that programme. It’s not a new government. A new government is one that’s voted in after a general election. What we have at the moment is the same government being led by a new clown. The same unelected clown nominated to lead his party by 100,000 Tories. Once a Tory always a Tory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 38 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Maybe the wrong time to comment since we're on to Independence. But as long as this Government takes responsibility for the fall out from No Deal and doesn't hold an early general election before that, then what they have done today isn't so bad aside from maximising the time. It's right the new Johnston Government puts forward it's new legislative programme. And he can put forward his new Deal as part of that programme. Not sure of the finer points, but you can be sure it'll involve printing f-loads of cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, Montgomery Brewster said: It’s not a new government. A new government is one that’s voted in after a general election. What we have at the moment is the same government being led by a new clown. The same unelected clown nominated to lead his party by 100,000 Tories. Once a Tory always a Tory. It literally is a new government. New PM, new front bench etc. Most of Theresa's allies were sacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 It's not a new Government. It's a new Cabinet. It can only be a new Government after an election when the Queen asks the leader to form a Government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, Cade said: It's not a new Government. It's a new Cabinet. It can only be a new Government after an election when the Queen asks the leader to form a Government. Teresa May didn't have any policies though. And it allows Johnson in theory to put a newly negotiated deal to Parliament. And in our unwritten constitution it's effectively a new government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 The news of mooth departing is quite amusing. A total political lightweight, sound bite politician for the Twitter age. She'll probably rock up in a safe seat in the shires in the next few years. Another branch office nobody inbound. Otherwise the game is afoot and its solid popcorn time until 31/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Teresa May didn't have any policies though. And it allows Johnson in theory to put a newly negotiated deal to Parliament. And in our unwritten constitution it's effectively a new government. Not happening. EU has been firm on this ever since they signed off on May's Deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Hardcastle Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Someone somewhere is making a lot of money out of all of this. Lucky bugger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costanza Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Not sure Boris Johnson has thought this through. Doesn't he realise there will be a number of cabinet resignations by taking the decision to prorogue parliament? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 18 minutes ago, Cade said: Not happening. EU has been firm on this ever since they signed off on May's Deal. I have to say Cade, you've been wrong on just about everything Brexit related up until now so you're due one. I admire your effort though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Outrage at the suppression of debate? Parliament has had 38 months and more to deliver the outcome of the referendum which it voted overwhelmingly to hold and is no nearer to doing so now than it was in June 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Deeds Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 24 minutes ago, Costanza said: Not sure Boris Johnson has thought this through. Doesn't he realise there will be a number of cabinet resignations by taking the decision to prorogue parliament? These clowns blow with the wind, they lack the the principles to resign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Outrage at the suppression of debate? Parliament has had 38 months and more to deliver the outcome of the referendum which it voted overwhelmingly to hold and is no nearer to doing so now than it was in June 2016. And for how much of those 38 months did the Government actually involve Parliament in the process of deciding on a deal that would be acceptable to as many stakeholders as possible? Perhaps things could have turned out differently if a cross-party committee had been involved from the get-go. I guess we'll never know now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, redjambo said: And for how much of those 38 months did the Government actually involve Parliament in the process of deciding on a deal that would be acceptable to as many stakeholders as possible? Perhaps things could have turned out differently if a cross-party committee had been involved from the get-go. I guess we'll never know now. Yeah, and even if not, binning the democratic institution in response is not the way to handle it. Ever. Unless you're eyeing a dictatorship. An Enabling Act, if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 20 minutes ago, redjambo said: And for how much of those 38 months did the Government actually involve Parliament in the process of deciding on a deal that would be acceptable to as many stakeholders as possible? Perhaps things could have turned out differently if a cross-party committee had been involved from the get-go. I guess we'll never know now. As I recall the House was given the option to vote on multiple Brexit options and failed to support any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 14 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: As I recall the House was given the option to vote on multiple Brexit options and failed to support any of them. Over the entire 38 month period you mentioned? Bollocks. The government kept things almost entirely to itself until very late on in the proceedings. For an event that will have significant effects on this country and its inhabitants, and for which a referendum produced only a small minority in favour of Brexit to boot. All sides should have been involved in taking their time to make a proper measured decision on what form Brexit would take (customs union?, common market? etc.) and, quite simply, they weren't. So don't blame Parliament, blame the Government for keeping everything to itself and then presenting unpalatable choices to Parliament in a series of rushed ill thought-out votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annushorribilis III Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 59 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Outrage at the suppression of debate? Parliament has had 38 months and more to deliver the outcome of the referendum which it voted overwhelmingly to hold and is no nearer to doing so now than it was in June 2016. It wasn't Parliament's job to deliver - it was the govts job to deliver via negotiations what Leave promised the electorate - or for the govt to say it was not deliverable. "Leave" said £350M daily for NHS, a managed departure , staying in the single market and not leaving until we had negotiated a deal - and that's just for starters. NONE of that is being delivered - quite the opposite , in some instances , and it is not the fault of parliament. Your point is ridiculous but entirely expected. What "Leave" campaigned for , and won the ref on , is not being delivered but apparently it is undemocratic to point this out and refuse to accept it. So,let's shut parliament down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Fun times imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Campaign for Leave in the referendum without a plan Invoke Article 50 without a plan Negotiate with the EU all on your own without involving anybody else without a plan Refuse to include anybody else in negotiations over the course of three years even when it becomes clear you have no actual plan and long term strategy Suffer ministerial resignations and firings and cabinet re-shuffles as nobody has a clue what they're doing due to not having had a plan Finalise a cobbled together deal with the EU at the last minute after being granted several extensions because you never had a plan Act surprised when Parliament rejects it Change party leader to one of the ones who campaigned for leave without having a plan Try to blame Parliament for his own mess That's about right, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) Go for independence - without a plan Edited August 29, 2019 by manaliveits105 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 7 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said: What about the arsehole Scottish people? I'm gone anaw. You? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, redjambo said: Over the entire 38 month period you mentioned? Bollocks. The government kept things almost entirely to itself until very late on in the proceedings. For an event that will have significant effects on this country and its inhabitants, and for which a referendum produced only a small minority in favour of Brexit to boot. All sides should have been involved in taking their time to make a proper measured decision on what form Brexit would take (customs union?, common market? etc.) and, quite simply, they weren't. So don't blame Parliament, blame the Government for keeping everything to itself and then presenting unpalatable choices to Parliament in a series of rushed ill thought-out votes. When Parliament resumes, Boris and his plans will have had exactly a Day of scrutiny since becoming PM. Ridiculous! 13 July- 14 Oct. Edited August 29, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Francis Albert said: As I recall the House was given the option to vote on multiple Brexit options and failed to support any of them. You do realise the current unelected Cabinet (Democracy and manifestos? who needs them!), voted against every deal, so no deal would happen. The deals the opposition parties voted for, the Tories voted against with the help of the DUP. May's deal, well you'd be aswell remaining. Edited August 29, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Other than JC as PM, I don't see why the opposition can't form a government. They only had 2% less votes than the Tories at the last election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 7 hours ago, Justin Z said: Cool. Interesting so far. Thanks for sharing it. Remember, Scotland kept it laws, so we'll argue from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, ri Alban said: Other than JC as PM, I don't see why the opposition can't form a government. They only had 2% less votes than the Tories at the last election. Because there simply aren't enough MPs to support such a proposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beni Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, ri Alban said: You do realise the current unelected Cabinet (Democracy and manifestos? who needs them!), voted against every deal, so no deal would happen. Someone on the radio yesterday said all bar two of the current cabinet voted for May's deal. Seemed unlikely to me, but it's true. https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/the-news-explained/boris-johnsons-cabinet-brexit-or-remain/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, fancy a brew said: Someone on the radio yesterday said all bar two of the current cabinet voted for May's deal. Seemed unlikely to me, but it's true. https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/the-news-explained/boris-johnsons-cabinet-brexit-or-remain/ Does it include Mogg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said: Because there simply aren't enough MPs to support such a proposal. A couple of Tory defectors and hey presto! Or that other mob could turn up, but feck that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said: Go for independence - without a plan Definitely without a currency! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, ri Alban said: You do realise the current unelected Cabinet (Democracy and manifestos? who needs them!), voted against every deal, so no deal would happen. The deals the opposition parties voted for, the Tories voted against with the help of the DUP. May's deal, well you'd be aswell remaining. So cabinets require to be elected now do they? Even although they already are elected MPs. Keep clutching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beni Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 38 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Does it include Mogg? Yes. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/29/third-vote-on-may-deal-exposes-splits-among-tory-brexiters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said: So cabinets require to be elected now do they? Even although they already are elected MPs. Keep clutching. Clutching? I'm perfectly happy with events. Thank you very much! Whether Scotland votes or not, the union is finished. I expect Nigel to start an ENP very shortly after Brexit. Edited August 29, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who_put_the_ball_in... Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 What Boris has done is constitutional regardless of right or wrong. I can’t see how any legal action would stand up in court as the constitution hasn’t been breached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 24 minutes ago, fancy a brew said: Yes. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/29/third-vote-on-may-deal-exposes-splits-among-tory-brexiters 👍 Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 10 hours ago, Justin Z said: Cool. Interesting so far. Thanks for sharing it. If people want to live their lives caring what Wm thinks, rather than have a Scottish government, elected by the Scottish people decide if we can decide our future. Well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said: So cabinets require to be elected now do they? Even although they already are elected MPs. Keep clutching. It's not a new government, tho. It's reshuffle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Who_put_the_ball_in... said: What Boris has done is constitutional regardless of right or wrong. I can’t see how any legal action would stand up in court as the constitution hasn’t been breached. It's just tactics to win the GE they're about to call, after they lose the vote of confidence. The loss of the Scottish MPs won't be problem as they'll win convincingly. But The SNP will take the job lot up here and no one can then deny them their referendum, not even yourself. Edited August 29, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah O Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 3 hours ago, manaliveits105 said: Go for independence - without a plan Suspend Scottish Parliament whilst going for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 3 hours ago, ri Alban said: Remember, Scotland kept it laws, so we'll argue from there. We've already talked elsewhere about how that is deeply simplifying, in fundamentally wrong ways, what the Acts of Union did as regards law in Scotland. If you read the paper Cruyff Turn linked, you'll see little to no mention of the assertion that "Scotland kept its laws" because that's like trying to use Duplo to build a skyscraper. You are the exact reason people get lawyers. You absolutely cannot think objectively on this issue, just like most people can't think objectively on most topics near and dear to them, and they need a voice of reason who's not (as) emotionally invested to protect their best interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said: Definitely without a currency! Currencies aren't some kind of magic powder. Speaking of people who absolutely cannot think objectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, ri Alban said: If people want to live their lives caring what Wm thinks, rather than have a Scottish government, elected by the Scottish people decide if we can decide our future. Well... Still have absolutely no idea where you're going or what your point is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Jambo Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 2 hours ago, ri Alban said: It's just tactics to win the GE they're about to call, after they lose the vote of confidence. The loss of the Scottish MPs won't be problem as they'll win convincingly. But The SNP will take the job lot up here and no one can then deny them their referendum, not even yourself. Boris will deny them it though, he had said as much openly, 2021 is the earliest it will happen. even though I don’t want independence the simple refusal to let Scotland have another vote makes me a bit uneasy but that is exactly what he will do. i predict that he will use the whole ‘too busy negotiating trade deals post brexit’ as his excuse for why it’s not the right time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) Ruth Davidson has resigned. A lot of chat about achievements. Says biggest "change" is starting family. Effort, travel, effort to fight an election is too much and dreds hours away from family. Nothing negative. Plea referring to division in politics for respect in debate. Answered questions. Brian Taylor asked about No Deal. Just said should have voted for May's deal and should vote for deal Johnston has told her is striving for. Spoke to Johnston yesterday and has told him to get a deal. Promised Ruth he is working to get a deal. Edited August 29, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Sorry to see Ruth step down. I wonder who will replace her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianajones Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 51 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said: Sorry to see Ruth step down. I wonder who will replace her. Another like minded, horrible tory. All one and the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Ruth Davidson has resigned because she knows the impending shit storm that is coming. She did as well as she could as Scottish Tory leader but she loses almost all the seat she has gained in the next GE IMO I doubt if Nick Hunt or Javid had won the leadership she would have resigned. Boris Johnson will suck every Scottish vote gained by ruth to SNP/Libral Democrats IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 I see mogg has described some of the outrage over suspension of Parliament as phoney. Sounds a bit Trumpish but I think in some cases at least he has a point. Anna Soubry and Gina Miller outraged at the (alleged) breach of the constitution and running again to the Courts. Suspect if someone came up with a constitutionally dubious way of stopping Brexit they would welcome it with open arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 5 hours ago, Who_put_the_ball_in... said: What Boris has done is constitutional regardless of right or wrong. I can’t see how any legal action would stand up in court as the constitution hasn’t been breached. Joanna Cherry seems to think her Scottish court case can force the PM to revoke Article 50. Politicians like her will govern an independent Scotland. Anybody sympathetic to that cause, please bear this in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.