Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[deesidejambo]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

 

Them Tories who you voted for at the last GE aye?

That’s them.     Voted for in order to punt the Indy candidate up here.   And it worked.   And make a few quid on Betfair.

 

sad you won’t tellme where you are drinking.   I would have bought you a pint.  And some crisps.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

24 minutes ago, redjambo said:

I think that this debate illustrates that perhaps it would be better off taking specific media articles and "facts" to task rather than slating a whole media source (which ends up sounding a bit like "my media source is better than yours, na na na na"). Even Fox News gets their facts right from time to time.

 

Indeed they do, and I've even seen them get the date right as well.

 

[jake]

2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Sorry. I'm just someone who places great value on well-sourced information (there are so many baseless "facts" flying around in life, it's a very human thing).

 

And remember to have your report in by Christmas or you won't receive any credits.

Dont mind being put right by facts buddy.

Even if it doesn't suit my view.

 

[redjambo]

48 minutes ago, jake said:

Dont mind being put right by facts buddy.

Even if it doesn't suit my view.

 

 

Good man. I wish more people thought that way.

[Cade]

EU parliament laying the smackdown on David Davis and the entire UK negotiating team.

 

We're a total joke.

 

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Good man. I wish more people thought that way.

Ask him about 9/11 and facts???

[Francis Albert]

5 hours ago, Cade said:

EU parliament laying the smackdown on David Davis and the entire UK negotiating team.

 

We're a total joke.

 

What does "laying the smack down" even mean?

[ri Alban]

I wonder if Donald Trump will take the credit for Obama's economic growth kicking in.

[ri Alban]

56 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I wonder if Donald Trump will take the credit for Obama's economic growth kicking in.

Wrong thread, oops.

[Space Mackerel]

19 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

That’s them.     Voted for in order to punt the Indy candidate up here.   And it worked.   And make a few quid on Betfair.

 

sad you won’t tellme where you are drinking.   I would have bought you a pint.  And some crisps.

 

Imagine voting to make yourself poorer. What a balloon.

[deesidejambo]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Imagine voting to make yourself poorer. What a balloon.

 

Some of us see the wider issues and vote for society in general, - unlike you.

 

I have repeatedly said for many years in this forum I will vote for whatever party increases tax in order to fund improved social services.  Even SNP in Holyrood for that matter.  I vote on the issues at hand at the time, unlike you, who will vote based on party loyalty no matter what..

 

But you presumably by your specific comment will vote Tory, as they are against tax rises.     

 

Ruth will be pleased at you.

[Cade]

Tory whips threatening to sue Tory MPs if they accuse them of bullying

 

 

 

Rats in a sack.

[Space Mackerel]

15 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

 

Some of us see the wider issues and vote for society in general, - unlike you.

 

I have repeatedly said for many years in this forum I will vote for whatever party increases tax in order to fund improved social services.  Even SNP in Holyrood for that matter.  I vote on the issues at hand at the time, unlike you, who will vote based on party loyalty no matter what..

 

But you presumably by your specific comment will vote Tory, as they are against tax rises.     

 

Ruth will be pleased at you.

 

You voted for the Tory Party in the GE to continue their planned cutbacks and austerity!  

I honestly don't think you're all there in the head man. 

[deesidejambo]

9 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

You voted for the Tory Party in the GE to continue their planned cutbacks and austerity!  

I honestly don't think you're all there in the head man. 

 

Indeed you just show how shallow you are.

 

I said I vote for whatever issues are relevant to me at the time of voting.    At the time of the GE my most important issue was to give Nicola a bloody nose, as the GE in Scotland was yet another proxy IndyRef.     Why do you think so many people in Scotland also suddenly voted Tory?   Its because the Tories went in on an anti-Indy ticket, so people voted for that.

 

Now that Indy2 is booted, people like myself can now either revert back to their previous parties (Labour in Scotland) or vote on other relevant issues, in my case balancing of tax.      So as I said, I will vote for whatever party best reflects my views on that, even SNP.

 

So you see - some of us vote on issues, and others (like you) just follow party dogma without thinking.   But........    you yourself have said its stupid to vote for a party which makes you personally poorer, so using your own logic, you will vote Tory now.

 

But you keep on playing the "evil Tories" card, but you will be greetin when Labour win the next GE, so all your anti-Tory posts in order to support Indy will have been wasted.      Once Nicola cant play the "we will not be ruled by Tories" card any more, you will be greetin.

 

[Space Mackerel]

1 hour ago, deesidejambo said:

 

Indeed you just show how shallow you are.

 

I said I vote for whatever issues are relevant to me at the time of voting.    At the time of the GE my most important issue was to give Nicola a bloody nose, as the GE in Scotland was yet another proxy IndyRef.     Why do you think so many people in Scotland also suddenly voted Tory?   Its because the Tories went in on an anti-Indy ticket, so people voted for that.

 

Now that Indy2 is booted, people like myself can now either revert back to their previous parties (Labour in Scotland) or vote on other relevant issues, in my case balancing of tax.      So as I said, I will vote for whatever party best reflects my views on that, even SNP.

 

So you see - some of us vote on issues, and others (like you) just follow party dogma without thinking.   But........    you yourself have said its stupid to vote for a party which makes you personally poorer, so using your own logic, you will vote Tory now.

 

But you keep on playing the "evil Tories" card, but you will be greetin when Labour win the next GE, so all your anti-Tory posts in order to support Indy will have been wasted.      Once Nicola cant play the "we will not be ruled by Tories" card any more, you will be greetin.

 

 

Thought the GE was about securing a massive mandate for Mays Brexit plans? 

 

You must have swallowed lowed a lot of Ruth’s hyperbole me thinks at the time. Anyway, she’s back in third place again behind Labour and indy2 is still on 46-47% 

 

Fat lot of good that did you. 

 

Anyway, back to Brexit please. 

 

[Space Mackerel]

Oh deeside, the Torys are ahead of Corbyn now btw. All your data is old or incorrect now.

 

http://www.thenational.scot/news/15760326.Poll_boost_for_May_as_Tories_move_ahead_of_Labour/?ref=fbshr

[deesidejambo]

6 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Thought the GE was about securing a massive mandate for Mays Brexit plans? 

 

You must have swallowed lowed a lot of Ruth’s hyperbole me thinks at the time. Anyway, she’s back in third place again behind Labour and indy2 is still on 46-47% 

 

Fat lot of good that did you. 

 

Anyway, back to Brexit please. 

 

Yet again you miss the point.

 

The nasty Tories are not the issue with respect to Indy - they will get booted at the next GE, so the "nasty Tories" card you keep playing over and over again will have the rug pulled from under it and all your posts will have been wasted.    Will you then start playing the "nasty Labour" card?

 

OK agreed - back to brexit.

[Cade]

Brexiteers: "Parliament is sovereign!"

 

Rest of Parliament: "Parliament wants a vote"

 

Brexiteers: "Parliament shouldn't be sovereign and should do what we want!"

[Jambo-Jimbo]

40 minutes ago, Cade said:

Brexiteers: "Parliament is sovereign!"

 

Rest of Parliament: "Parliament wants a vote"

 

Brexiteers: "Parliament shouldn't be sovereign and should do what we want!"

 

You were saying?

From November - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41975277

https://www.news24.com/World/News/uk-parliament-to-get-vote-on-final-brexit-deal-20171114

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-11-13/parliament-to-get-vote-on-final-brexit-deal/

And I could list dozens more.

 

And from Today

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-law/may-says-parliament-to-vote-on-final-brexit-deal-idUKKBN1E71JN

 

And who was it that said Parliament shouldn't be sovereign etc etc?  Link please.

 

[jambo lodge]

14 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

You were saying?

From November - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41975277

https://www.news24.com/World/News/uk-parliament-to-get-vote-on-final-brexit-deal-20171114

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-11-13/parliament-to-get-vote-on-final-brexit-deal/

And I could list dozens more.

 

And from Today

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-law/may-says-parliament-to-vote-on-final-brexit-deal-idUKKBN1E71JN

 

And who was it that said Parliament shouldn't be sovereign etc etc?  Link please.

 

 

Parliament will get a vote on the final Brexit deal, its just common sense. It is obvious however that after all the hot air the deal will be a take it or leave it deal. It will be a very brave Party leader ( we don't have any in the UK at the moment ) to instruct his/her troops to vote against the deal when the referendum was so clear. 

[deesidejambo]

1 minute ago, jambo lodge said:

 

Parliament will get a vote on the final Brexit deal, its just common sense. It is obvious however that after all the hot air the deal will be a take it or leave it deal. It will be a very brave Party leader ( we don't have any in the UK at the moment ) to instruct his/her troops to vote against the deal when the referendum was so clear. 

 

Not sure age referendum was that clear - 52/48.  Many voted without the knowledge they now have.  Im not sure if they repeated it today the outcome would be the same?  imo.

[Space Mackerel]

34 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

 

Not sure age referendum was that clear - 52/48.  Many voted without the knowledge they now have.  Im not sure if they repeated it today the outcome would be the same?  imo.

 

Yet you voted for a party at the last GE that sooked up UKIP’s backside and wanted a hard Brexit?

 

If there ever was a time to send a message politically then you missed the mark there.

 

[ri Alban]

4 hours ago, Cade said:

Tory whips threatening to sue Tory MPs if they accuse them of bullying

 

 

 

Rats in a sack.

Reports that at least one was in tears.

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

 

Indeed you just show how shallow you are.

 

I said I vote for whatever issues are relevant to me at the time of voting.    At the time of the GE my most important issue was to give Nicola a bloody nose, as the GE in Scotland was yet another proxy IndyRef.     Why do you think so many people in Scotland also suddenly voted Tory?   Its because the Tories went in on an anti-Indy ticket, so people voted for that.

 

Now that Indy2 is booted, people like myself can now either revert back to their previous parties (Labour in Scotland) or vote on other relevant issues, in my case balancing of tax.      So as I said, I will vote for whatever party best reflects my views on that, even SNP.

 

So you see - some of us vote on issues, and others (like you) just follow party dogma without thinking.   But........    you yourself have said its stupid to vote for a party which makes you personally poorer, so using your own logic, you will vote Tory now.

 

But you keep on playing the "evil Tories" card, but you will be greetin when Labour win the next GE, so all your anti-Tory posts in order to support Indy will have been wasted.      Once Nicola cant play the "we will not be ruled by Tories" card any more, you will be greetin.

 

Do you honestly believe indyref2 has been booted. Well you're in for a big shock come 2019. Holyrood decided on indyref2 not MPs at WM.

[Space Mackerel]

4 hours ago, Cade said:

Tory whips threatening to sue Tory MPs if they accuse them of bullying

 

 

 

Rats in a sack.

 

Torys and whips you say? They’ll be queuing up for that if it’s free and involves young boys. 

[deesidejambo]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Do you honestly believe indyref2 has been booted. Well you're in for a big shock come 2019. Holyrood decided on indyref2 not MPs at WM.

 

Yup its been booted.     Nicola wont call it till she gets a 60% majority the polls.   And even after all the Tory screw-ups and Brexit she is nowhere near that.  You would have expected a large swing toward sIndy based on recent events.  But nothing.

 

But keep agitating for it.

 

Tick-tock.

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, deesidejambo said:

 

Yup its been booted.     Nicola wont call it till she gets a 60% majority the polls.   And even after all the Tory screw-ups and Brexit she is nowhere near that.  You would have expected a large swing toward sIndy based on recent events.  But nothing.

 

But keep agitating for it.

 

Tick-tock.

Christ you're delusional.

[Boris]

Government loses Brexit amendment vote by four votes. Parliament supreme.

[Cade]

May defeated.

Brexit ministers will not be able to simply make laws up as they go along.

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, Boris said:

Government loses Brexit amendment vote by four votes. Parliament supreme.

 

I love the UK Parliament ?

[deesidejambo]

24 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Christ you're delusional.

 

Maybe but in fairness your posting style reminds me of Aussieh.

 

really odd coincidence that his last post was on November 11th,  the same day you joined.

 

but just a coincidence of course.

[Boris]

12 minutes ago, Cade said:

May defeated.

Brexit ministers will not be able to simply make laws up as they go along.

 

 

I think, if I've understood the ramifications of this, that it means the government can't deliver a fait accompli I.e. Accept the deal or it's no deal.

 

interesting times, as they say.

[Space Mackerel]

43 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

 

Maybe but in fairness your posting style reminds me of Aussieh.

 

really odd coincidence that his last post was on November 11th,  the same day you joined.

 

but just a coincidence of course.

 

Thats a wee bit para :-/

[deesidejambo]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Thats a wee bit para :-/

 

but nevertheless true.  One SNP daftie gets booted and on the very same day another one joins.   Spooky eh?

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

7 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

 

but nevertheless true.  One SNP daftie gets booted and on the very same day another one joins.   Spooky eh?

 

 

 

Censoring political chat is a good thing? 

[deesidejambo]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Censoring political chat is a good thing? 

 

Nope.  Who’s censoring?

 

anyway big day for you tomorrow.   Time to use Scottish Govts tax powers for the good of all.

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

20 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

 

Nope.  Who’s censoring?

 

anyway big day for you tomorrow.   Time to use Scottish Govts tax powers for the good of all.

 

 

 

Sounds like you want to move away from a low tax economy and join the Scandinavian model? 

[deesidejambo]

12 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Sounds like you want to move away from a low tax economy and join the Scandinavian model? 

 

While you have no opinion other than to wait till the SNP give their proposal then blindly agree with it.

 

try thinking for yourself about the issue in question for once - of the tax options in the SNP paper, which one do you personally support?

Edited December 13, 2017 by deesidejambo

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

 

While you have no opinion other than to wait till the SNP give their proposal then blindly agree with it.

 

try thinking for yourself about the issue in question for once - of the tax options in the SNP paper, which one do you personally support?

 

Id be more inclined to disagree with tax policy with the SNP if it had full tax powers available, which includes spend too.

 

But it hasn’t 

 

So its its a waste of time discussing it. And you know this too which is the sad part.

 

 

[deesidejambo]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Id be more inclined to disagree with tax policy with the SNP if it had full tax powers available, which includes spend too.

 

But it hasn’t 

 

So its its a waste of time discussing it. And you know this too which is the sad part.

 

 

 

So as predicted you have no opinion yourself on which option is the best for you or the country.

 

but come tomorrow you will of course defend whatever one your beloved SNP propose.

 

sheep.

[AlimOzturk]

10 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

 

So as predicted you have no opinion yourself on which option is the best for you or the country.

 

but come tomorrow you will of course defend whatever one your beloved SNP propose.

 

sheep.

 

How can you still defend the Tories after all the massive **** ups is baffling. 

 

The SNP are far from perfect but least they actually care about Scotland. Can't say the same for Ruth Davidson. (Funny how they no longer call themselves Scottish conservatives on any political drive) 

[The Continental Op]

7 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

Oh deeside, the Torys are ahead of Corbyn now btw. All your data is old or incorrect now.

 

http://www.thenational.scot/news/15760326.Poll_boost_for_May_as_Tories_move_ahead_of_Labour/?ref=fbshr

The lead was caused by a 10% swing in Scotland from SLAB to SCON in a week.

Kezia and her jungle antics have got a lot to answer for!

Edited December 13, 2017 by The Continental Op

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Fascinating scenario now.

 

How do you deliver what 17m voted for? I voted remain but if the Brexit result is declared null and void, can the UK really hold any form of referendum again? People will draw the conclusion that the political elite call the shots and let’s be honest - they’d be right.

[AlimOzturk]

42 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Fascinating scenario now.

 

How do you deliver what 17m voted for? I voted remain but if the Brexit result is declared null and void, can the UK really hold any form of referendum again? People will draw the conclusion that the political elite call the shots and let’s be honest - they’d be right.

 

Would also put the Scottish independence referendum into doubt. How could that possibly be accepted and the Brexit vote isn't?

 

They can't just ignore will of the people. There has to be act of Parliament which makes referendum results legally binding. 

[JamboX2]

5 hours ago, Boris said:

I think, if I've understood the ramifications of this, that it means the government can't deliver a fait accompli I.e. Accept the deal or it's no deal.

 

interesting times, as they say.

Means the government need a deal that (rightly) reflects the views of our elected representatives.

 

That to me (based on the NI issue, on the mood of MPs across all parties) puts a Norway style deal back on the table.

 

Which is sensible and pragmatic. If Fox n co want to resign over it, let them. She'll get cross party backing for a good deal and be a national leader if she does.

[JamboX2]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Fascinating scenario now.

 

How do you deliver what 17m voted for? I voted remain but if the Brexit result is declared null and void, can the UK really hold any form of referendum again? People will draw the conclusion that the political elite call the shots and let’s be honest - they’d be right.

What they voted for is open to interpretation.

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Fascinating scenario now.

 

How do you deliver what 17m voted for? I voted remain but if the Brexit result is declared null and void, can the UK really hold any form of referendum again? People will draw the conclusion that the political elite call the shots and let’s be honest - they’d be right.

 

One possibility would be for Parliament to use its powers to put whatever deal is in front of it to the British people to accept or reject in a referendum.  It might not be ideal, but it would give the final say to the voters.

[redjambo]

11 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

One possibility would be for Parliament to use its powers to put whatever deal is in front of it to the British people to accept or reject in a referendum.  It might not be ideal, but it would give the final say to the voters.

 

This is the path I would prefer. I'm not sure that the secession timetable would provide enough time for one to take place though, especially if the deal is rejected by the referendum. We should have negotiated much more time with the EU for negotiations, if that doesn't sound strange.

[Ulysses]

14 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

This is the path I would prefer. I'm not sure that the secession timetable would provide enough time for one to take place though, especially if the deal is rejected by the referendum. We should have negotiated much more time with the EU for negotiations, if that doesn't sound strange.

 

Could they negotiate a deal, and agree a short transition period to be cleared by Parliament pending a referendum?

 

For example, reach agreement on a draft deal by January or February 2019, with a transition period of continued EEA-type membership to 29 March 2020, and have the referendum shortly after Easter 2019.  That would give both sides 11 months or so to do some preparatory work for a sharp exit if the voters said No.  If the voters said Yes then the transition could run to 29 March 2020 anyway and the deal could kick in then.

 

Just a thought.

 

 

[ri Alban]

10 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

 

Maybe but in fairness your posting style reminds me of Aussieh.

 

really odd coincidence that his last post was on November 11th,  the same day you joined.

 

but just a coincidence of course.

Wow!  Put the ganja away. I did indeed join on the 11th Nov, and I have no when said poster last posted(if you could show me), but I know you only said because some other poster with no argument said it to deflect.

 

You sound as if you have experience of this. Whom may you be, I wonder, your posting style I don't give a shit about or take any notice of because I have a life and don't take it so serious. But hey you keep squeezing yer testicles, keep the anger and pain strong.

 

 

 

Oh and your scum party lost haha.