Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[ri Alban]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

What would be the point? You’d deflect, label me, post a meme and some emojis and think you’d won another argument. 

You’ve never bettered anyone on this board that I’ve seen or in any discussion you’re incapable of debate. 

You think winding people up all day every day is some kind of win. It’s bizarre. 

 

 

 

Don't let him get to you. 

 

I've a few mates that foam at the smooth about Poles etc... taking their jobs. I just said does it bother you when rUK take your jobs. That's different they say, I  say How? Both are unions for trade and movement of people are they not. No answer , other than the usual stuff you'd hear at Ibrox.

[Space Mackerel]

9 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

More Scots voted for Brexit than voted for the SNP.

 

 

Mind in 2014 it was a cast iron economic armageddon if Scotland temporarily left the EU?

[ri Alban]

3 minutes ago, reaths17 said:

Scotland is not independent, it voted as part of the UK the majority said out, their quite entitled to have their say and assist in what the people of the UK(which we are a part of) voted for but have no right to demand anything. sturgeon and her devotees have sat on their hands in governance of Scotland and have become a waste of space

They've done okay in government, maybe if they didn't have to firefight wm policies we could afford other stuff.

You do remember EU membership was guaranteed with a no vote, they've every right to ask again.

[NANOJAMBO]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Have you felt the affects yourself? If you weren’t bombarded with it in the media and LOL’ing like a bairn at posts on FB on here would you even have noticed? 

I wouldn’t have. 

I just got made redundant last year and my last pay rise was 2%  with inflation running noticeably higher.  Maybe things are different in Scotland  (or maybe you just hadn't noticed) but down here , food inflation  is running way beyond 2% As for the rest of your  stuff, I've got better things to do. Have a good day with your puerile postings on the mater that you say you are  "meh" about. 

[Space Mackerel]

5 minutes ago, reaths17 said:

Scotland is not independent, it voted as part of the UK the majority said out, their quite entitled to have their say and assist in what the people of the UK(which we are a part of) voted for but have no right to demand anything. sturgeon and her devotees have sat on their hands in governance of Scotland and have become a waste of space

 

Mind in 2014, Cameron said Scotland would be an equal partner?

[jack D and coke]

19 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I just got made redundant last year and my last pay rise was 2%  with inflation running noticeably higher.  Maybe things are different in Scotland  (or maybe you just hadn't noticed) but down here , food inflation  is running way beyond 2% As for the rest of your  stuff, I've got better things to do. Have a good day with your puerile postings on the mater that you say you are  "meh" about. 

I’ve been out of work more times than I care to remember and I’m not making taking any pleasure in you losing yours that’s unfortunate I hope things have picked up for you, genuinely. 

When i said I’m meh about it I just think there’s more to worry about in life than brexit or Indy or whatever politically. I made a decision and it can’t be changed now what will be will be. Who’s to say stations might have been any better, we’ll never know now. 

Ive got a kid who I worry about now she’s 17 and my girlfriend has had a bad health scare this year and that makes you realise what actually does matter. 

[reaths17]

27 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

They've done okay in government, maybe if they didn't have to firefight wm policies we could afford other stuff.

You do remember EU membership was guaranteed with a no vote, they've every right to ask again.

they've done FA in government of any significance, minor improvement or 2 a few minor fails but a major FU makes it a negative governance for me. hell bent on keeping things crap while blaming england in the hope we will vote independence, that's the way to show them your the one to side with.

[ri Alban]

36 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I’ve been out of work more times than I care to remember and I’m not making taking any pleasure in you losing yours that’s unfortunate I hope things have picked up for you, genuinely. 

When i said I’m meh about it I just think there’s more to worry about in life than brexit or Indy or whatever politically. I made a decision and it can’t be changed now what will be will be. Who’s to say stations might have been any better, we’ll never know now. 

Ive got a kid who I worry about now she’s 17 and my girlfriend has had a bad health scare this year and that makes you realise what actually does matter. 

Trump just solved everyones problems. Nuclear war is immanent.

[ri Alban]

37 minutes ago, reaths17 said:

they've done FA in government of any significance, minor improvement or 2 a few minor fails but a major FU makes it a negative governance for me. hell bent on keeping things crap while blaming england in the hope we will vote independence, that's the way to show them your the one to side with.

I don't see it that way, they can't do much with no power, it's an administration not a government. They kept the bedroom tax out, upgraded the infrastructure and schools, free prescriptions (which could be looked at, but as it is , is the cheaper option) they've tried to tackle the police and education that has been neglected, they also want to tackle our drink problem and protect children. Yes they could go about things better, but hey, what would you do under constant attack from your opponents. You'd be hard headed too. Independence is not the issue at the minute, but in a few years it will be and I for one will be glad it's there.

It's all about perception I suppose, everything is. At the end of the day, they will always promote independence.

Edited December 7, 2017 by ri Alban

[jake]

4 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

You don't like the EU? Big bad EU made you bananas straight? You like curly nana's? Tell us all why you don't like the EU and how it affects YOUR life in a major way please.

You're the one getting all biscuit arsed about all us laughing at yous now. I telt you all this would happen the day after the result.   

What is it that has happened that you told us about?

[Space Mackerel]

1 hour ago, reaths17 said:

they've done FA in government of any significance, minor improvement or 2 a few minor fails but a major FU makes it a negative governance for me. hell bent on keeping things crap while blaming england in the hope we will vote independence, that's the way to show them your the one to side with.

 

List the things the Torys have done down South that’s improved England then. 

I read an article after Cameron resigned, the author was saying he actually did Sweet FA in office. I can’t remember May adding much either. 

 

 

[Cade]

So, back in Brexit land, things remain deadlocked.

 

We can't have a hard border in Ireland without a resumption of the Troubles.

 

We can't have NI as being a special case in the Customs Union and Single Market  with open borders, as this risks a massive constitutional crisis and the DUP pulling out of their dodgy deal with the Tories, sparking a collapse in the government.

 

We can't have the entire UK stay in the customs union and single market which would solve the Irish border problem, coz the Government would fall when the Tories tear each other to pieces over demands for a hard Brexit.

 

The EU has put a deadline of sunday midnight for the first stage to be sorted out.

 

David Davis got away with lying about the existence of impact studies he said had been done but hadn't.

Phillip Hammond has fallen out with half of his party after saying the UK would pay the bill due to the EU no matter what.

 

Absolute shambles.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Cade

[Jambo-Jimbo]

15 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

List the things the Torys have done down South that’s improved England then. 

I read an article after Cameron resigned, the author was saying he actually did Sweet FA in office. I can’t remember May adding much either. 

 

 

 

Increasing the personal tax allowance from what was it £6000 to over £10,000 then £11,500, that has saved a lot of people especially on lower earnings a hell of a lot of money, in fact it's taken several million people out of the tax system completely.

 

 

 

[CavySlaveJambo]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Was it Democratic? No EU citizens were permitted to vote.

 

Nor some UK expats who are living in the EU because of the time they were resident there. 

[Space Mackerel]

26 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Increasing the personal tax allowance from what was it £6000 to over £10,000 then £11,500, that has saved a lot of people especially on lower earnings a hell of a lot of money, in fact it's taken several million people out of the tax system completely.

 

 

 

 

Thats it? That’s your sole answer? They’ve tinkered with the tax system like every government  does in office? 

 

[Space Mackerel]

34 minutes ago, Cade said:

So, back in Brexit land, things remain deadlocked.

 

We can't have a hard border in Ireland without a resumption of the Troubles.

 

We can't have NI as being a special case in the Customs Union and Single Market  with open borders, as this risks a massive constitutional crisis and the DUP pulling out of their dodgy deal with the Tories, sparking a collapse in the government.

 

We can't have the entire UK stay in the customs union and single market which would solve the Irish border problem, coz the Government would fall when the Tories tear each other to pieces over demands for a hard Brexit.

 

The EU has put a deadline of sunday midnight for the first stage to be sorted out.

 

David Davis got away with lying about the existence of impact studies he said had been done but hadn't.

Phillip Hammond has fallen out with half of his party after saying the UK would pay the bill due to the EU no matter what.

 

Absolute shambles.

 

Pretty good and accurate summarisation of the state of play.

 

Torys are goosed. 

[Cade]

35 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Increasing the personal tax allowance from what was it £6000 to over £10,000 then £11,500, that has saved a lot of people especially on lower earnings a hell of a lot of money, in fact it's taken several million people out of the tax system completely.

 

 

 

That was the Libdems

[Jambo-Jimbo]

11 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Thats it? That’s your sole answer? They’ve tinkered with the tax system like every government  does in office? 

 

 

It was the first thing that came to my mind, are there others, maybe, maybe not.

Tinkered with the tax system, pretty big tinkering.

Anyway veering off topic.

 

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

That was the Libdems

 

The Tories didn't need to go along with it, remember they vetoed the LibDem pledge on Student Fees.

Anyway again going off topic, so this is my last word on this.

[maroonlegions]

51 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Increasing the personal tax allowance from what was it £6000 to over £10,000 then £11,500, that has saved a lot of people especially on lower earnings a hell of a lot of money, in fact it's taken several million people out of the tax system completely.

 

 

 

 

At the same time his party have driven a lot of low wage working families into the usage of food banks and poverty by the stagnation of wage rises that cannot  compete with inflation.

 

Universal Credit and all its brutal sanctions have made those already in hardship worse.

 

Seems the party that believes in  "you get nothing for nothing", "or nothing is free", or as May has said "the way out of poverty is by working" are really just giving by one hand and taking  it back by another.

 

In real terms the increase in personal tax allowances have not stopped the increase in poverty  or had any real impacts on those in poverty or hardship who are in work. 

 

Every day necessities like paying the rent and feeding ones kids are far more a struggle for many in WORK and  thats not including  those  on benefits who are labeled  as lazy scroungers by the very wealthy.

 

One could debate on where does one draw the line between a humartiain based society to  that of one of abject poverty and hardship brought about by  direct policy mandates by this present government.

 

Follow the money trail??

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by maroonlegions

[ri Alban]

18 minutes ago, Cade said:

That was the Libdems

I could swear I posted this, weird.

[Space Mackerel]

31 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

It was the first thing that came to my mind, are there others, maybe, maybe not.

Tinkered with the tax system, pretty big tinkering.

Anyway veering off topic.

 

 

The Tories didn't need to go along with it, remember they vetoed the LibDem pledge on Student Fees.

Anyway again going off topic, so this is my last word on this.

 

Inflation or CPI has increased so all that extra VAT goes straight back into the Treasury. 

Not so great when you add up all the sums. 

[Ulysses]

8 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

 

So a 'Hard Brexit' is in nobody's interests, it would hurt the UK, but it would also hit the EU hard as well, perhaps twice as hard as the UK

 

A hard Brexit wouldn't hit the EU twice as hard as the UK.  It would - in a worst case scenario - cause double the number of job losses in the EU27 as in the UK, but the EU27 economy is six times the size of the UK economy.  Therefore in relative income and employment terms, the worst case scenario is that a hard Brexit would hit the UK economy approximately three times as hard as the economy of the EU27.

 

The EU27 wants a deal, but it needs to defend the integrity of the Customs Union and the Single Market - and that need will come first.  Moreover, the trading patterns of the EU27 economies are different to the UK economy, especially in the case of the eurozone.  Exports are important to EU27 countries and eurozone countries, but most of those exports are to each other.  Also, the EU27 already has trade pacts in place with major third-party trading countries, and doesn't need to negotiate or re-negotiate them after Brexit.  This means that in general the EU27 will not need to be as concerned with the loss of British markets as the UK will about the loss of EEA markets.  There would be one or two hotspots among the EU27, and Ireland would be the worst of those, but none of the economic issues would be insurmountable.  They'd be problematic, but they could be managed.

[Unknown user]

23 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

A hard Brexit wouldn't hit the EU twice as hard as the UK.  It would - in a worst case scenario - cause double the number of job losses in the EU27 as in the UK, but the EU27 economy is six times the size of the UK economy.  Therefore in relative income and employment terms, the worst case scenario is that a hard Brexit would hit the UK economy approximately three times as hard as the economy of the EU27.

 

The EU27 wants a deal, but it needs to defend the integrity of the Customs Union and the Single Market - and that need will come first.  Moreover, the trading patterns of the EU27 economies are different to the UK economy, especially in the case of the eurozone.  Exports are important to EU27 countries and eurozone countries, but most of those exports are to each other.  Also, the EU27 already has trade pacts in place with major third-party trading countries, and doesn't need to negotiate or re-negotiate them after Brexit.  This means that in general the EU27 will not need to be as concerned with the loss of British markets as the UK will about the loss of EEA markets.  There would be one or two hotspots among the EU27, and Ireland would be the worst of those, but none of the economic issues would be insurmountable.  They'd be problematic, but they could be managed.

 

My mate couldn't get his head round this, I ended up having to say to him "if I take ten grand off you and twenty grand off the Queen, is she hit twice as hard as you?"

I'm still not convinced he got it TBH

[Jambo-Jimbo]

35 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

A hard Brexit wouldn't hit the EU twice as hard as the UK.  It would - in a worst case scenario - cause double the number of job losses in the EU27 as in the UK, but the EU27 economy is six times the size of the UK economy.  Therefore in relative income and employment terms, the worst case scenario is that a hard Brexit would hit the UK economy approximately three times as hard as the economy of the EU27.

 

The EU27 wants a deal, but it needs to defend the integrity of the Customs Union and the Single Market - and that need will come first.  Moreover, the trading patterns of the EU27 economies are different to the UK economy, especially in the case of the eurozone.  Exports are important to EU27 countries and eurozone countries, but most of those exports are to each other.  Also, the EU27 already has trade pacts in place with major third-party trading countries, and doesn't need to negotiate or re-negotiate them after Brexit.  This means that in general the EU27 will not need to be as concerned with the loss of British markets as the UK will about the loss of EEA markets.  There would be one or two hotspots among the EU27, and Ireland would be the worst of those, but none of the economic issues would be insurmountable.  They'd be problematic, but they could be managed.

 

I, of course meant in terms of jobs, exactly as the article I posted had indicated. 

It is my mistake and error to have poorly worded my last sentence so as not to reflect this.

 

 

[Cade]

Head of the CBI has warned that 60% of the big companies with relocation strategies will put those plans into action by easter if progress with the Brexit talks doesn't speed up significantly.

 

Mass exodus of companies and jobs on the horizon.

 

But it's all project fear, eh?

[jack D and coke]

34 minutes ago, Cade said:

Head of the CBI has warned that 60% of the big companies with relocation strategies will put those plans into action by easter if progress with the Brexit talks doesn't speed up significantly.

 

Mass exodus of companies and jobs on the horizon.

 

But it's all project fear, eh?

Well I know you were a Yes voter so did you not want to believe it then but are believing it now? 

[Space Mackerel]

5 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Well I know you were a Yes voter so did you not want to believe it then but are believing it now? 

 

Why do Brexiteers keep equating the two? They are 2 completely different economic and political situations. It’s like comparing apples with oranges. 

[jake]

46 minutes ago, Cade said:

Head of the CBI has warned that 60% of the big companies with relocation strategies will put those plans into action by easter if progress with the Brexit talks doesn't speed up significantly.

 

Mass exodus of companies and jobs on the horizon.

 

But it's all project fear, eh?

Yawn

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Why do Brexiteers keep equating the two? They are 2 completely different economic and political situations. It’s like comparing apples with oranges. 

Why is it so different? In theory brexit should’ve been fairly easy in comparison to untangling a 300 year marriage yet in Yes supporters minds that will be a piece of pish and Brexit is the impossible. 

I think not myself. 

 

[jake]

The EU 27 (lol) represent a market that has the slowest growth worldwide.

 

We couldn't be leaving at a better time.

[Space Mackerel]

50 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Why is it so different? 

 

 

 

I cant remember ever saying it would be a piece of pish. 

 

[jack D and coke]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

 

 

I cant remember ever saying it would be a piece of pish. 

 

Well explain the differences. I’m aware it’s not an identical situation but it’s gave insight into the problems that these things can throw up. 

Scotland had a million and one more things to sort as opposed to brexit. 

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I, of course meant in terms of jobs, exactly as the article I posted had indicated. 

It is my mistake and error to have poorly worded my last sentence so as not to reflect this.

 

 

 

 

That's why the impact on Ireland would potentially be so much worse than on Germany, Belgium or the Netherlands, even though the number of job losses in Germany might be the same or might actually be higher.

 

We both might be bad, but it could be worse.  Imagine if we were complete economic illiterates but still lol'd our way through the debate. 

[Space Mackerel]

7 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Well explain the differences. I’m aware it’s not an identical situation but it’s gave insight into the problems that these things can throw up. 

Scotland had a million and one more things to sort as opposed to brexit. 

 

Whataboot this and what whataboot that eh? 

 

Well theres 27 countries up against 1, and, the 1 wants to be defacto part EU which it can’t be unless it pays the same amount of dough or more than it was in the first place. 

 

Would Scotland have to pay an annual sub to England to trade? Or, if Scotland was back in the EU, would England have to pay Scotland through its payments divided up amongst the EU countries? 

 

Remember, Scotland already has its own legal, education system etc etc set up. It was an independent nation 300 years ago and to a certain extent through devolution already is. 

[Ulysses]

Ooh, politicians and civil servants - you wouldn't be up to their messing about, to be sure to be sure.

 

 

BBC News - Irish border: New draft Brexit plan could break deadlock

 

 

What sort of shenanigans are going on now?

[scott herbertson]

6 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Ooh, politicians and civil servants - you wouldn't be up to their messing about, to be sure to be sure.

 

 

BBC News - Irish border: New draft Brexit plan could break deadlock

 

 

What sort of shenanigans are going on now?

 

 

The EU could have a lot of fun if the new deal differs from what they have already agreed to, in any way detrimental to the EU

[Ulysses]

Just now, scott herbertson said:

 

 

The EU could have a lot of fun if the new deal differs from what they have already agreed to, in any way detrimental to the EU

 

It'll be interesting to see (well, at least around here it will).

[Space Mackerel]

Dinosaurs to get written out all text books across the UK by March 2019. 

[Ulysses]

16 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Dinosaurs to get written out all text books across the UK by March 2019. 

 

Except this pic:

 

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Why is it so different? In theory brexit should’ve been fairly easy in comparison to untangling a 300 year marriage yet in Yes supporters minds that will be a piece of pish and Brexit is the impossible. 

I think not myself. 

 

Indy is Scotland and England negotiations.

Brexit Is UK and 27 others, that's the difference. One on One compared to One v Twentyseven.

 

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Well explain the differences. I’m aware it’s not an identical situation but it’s gave insight into the problems that these things can throw up. 

Scotland had a million and one more things to sort as opposed to brexit. 

Like what? Most of it goes out the window at brexit. Scotland is more in line with the EU, so when that goes what's left?.

Army, Royals, some laws, assets and debts. The only argument will be whether it's 8% population or landmass. We'll go population, rUK will go landmass.

[ri Alban]

8 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Well I know you were a Yes voter so did you not want to believe it then but are believing it now? 

The relocation wasn't based on Scotland leaving The UK, it was because of the lose of the EU membership scaremongering. Which after all counted for nothing.

[ri Alban]

Irish border deal seems to be done. Press conference very shortly.

[AlphonseCapone]

The deal is a fudge imo. The UK is remaining in the customs union in all but name. It's impossible for these 3 stated areas of the agreement to work;

 

1. NI won't diverge from UK.

2. No hard border.

3. UK leaves custom union.

 

The trade deal will be based on the UK essentially remaining in but saying it isn't so as not to upset the Eurosceptics in the Tory party. Be amazed if they are thick enough to buy this.

 

Theresa can backslap all she wants, this deal doesn't get through parliament imo, it's a con.

[Space Mackerel]

Doesn’t sound much has changed, basically a few more concessions from May which will send the hard right Tory nutters apoplectic.  

[jack D and coke]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Indy is Scotland and England negotiations.

Brexit Is UK and 27 others, that's the difference. One on One compared to One v Twentyseven.

 

 

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

The relocation wasn't based on Scotland leaving The UK, it was because of the lose of the EU membership scaremongering. Which after all counted for nothing.

 

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Like what? Most of it goes out the window at brexit. Scotland is more in line with the EU, so when that goes what's left?.

Army, Royals, some laws, assets and debts. The only argument will be whether it's 8% population or landmass. We'll go population, rUK will go landmass.

Indy = Doddle 

Brexit = impossible. 

Almost funny tbh. 

[AlphonseCapone]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

 

 

Indy = Doddle 

Brexit = impossible. 

Almost funny tbh. 

Though the internet skews it, the vast majority of people don't and never believed either would be a doddle or impossible.

[jack D and coke]

9 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Whataboot this and what whataboot that eh? 

 

Well theres 27 countries up against 1, and, the 1 wants to be defacto part EU which it can’t be unless it pays the same amount of dough or more than it was in the first place. 

 

Would Scotland have to pay an annual sub to England to trade? Or, if Scotland was back in the EU, would England have to pay Scotland through its payments divided up amongst the EU countries? 

 

Remember, Scotland already has its own legal, education system etc etc set up. It was an independent nation 300 years ago and to a certain extent through devolution already is. 

And the Uk isn’t already independent and doesn’t have these things also? But because of simply a trading block it’s Armageddon? We are completely tied to the uk, in every way. The uk isn’t to the eu. 

You really need to see what you shovel sometimes. 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Though the internet skews it, the vast majority of people don't and never believed either would be a doddle or impossible.

Well me and you don’t anyway but it’s insane the way things have flipped around on this. All the accusations I seen thrown at unionists are now being used on brexit voters. The glee from remainers is exactly the same as unionists too. 

Once a vote is done and dusted where anybody takes pleasure in seeing things fall apart is a twat imo. 

[AlphonseCapone]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Well me and you don’t anyway but it’s insane the way things have flipped around on this. All the accusations I seen thrown at unionists are now being used on brexit voters. The glee from remainers is exactly the same as unionists too. 

Once a vote is done and dusted where anybody takes pleasure in seeing things fall apart is a twat imo. 

 

People are unashamedly tribal with everything. It's probably the aspect that has held human society back more than anything else, so easy to divide into rich/poor, working class/posh, Labour/Tory, catholic/protestant etc etc and folk fall into line so quickly and become irrational. Scotland, UK, EU, the world, any of that falling apart is terrible for all of us.