Ann Budge update

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Maybe now they can have a small insight into how Ann would feel reading this thread.

True. Although they're just aliases.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

What a bizarre groupthink pile on going on here. It's okay to dissent, it's okay to hold different points of view. Someone might thing AB is not doing a good job (and btw the poster getting grief here hasn't even said that) and I would disagree with that but if they're putting across an opinion in an informed, polite way, who cares?

Correct.

 

I think redm's attacks on FF here are disgraceful. It's as if she sees FF's info as an attack on Budge when quite clearly it shows she got a good deal by ponying up and we got an even better deal because we still have a club!

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

You call it good points, I call it Grenades.

You would.

 

Not defending the posts on this thread btw, think they're over the top.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Maybe now they can have a small insight into how Ann would feel reading this thread.

I'm behind Ann 100% but come om, you can't be serious here. Discouraging fans from asking questions, even criticising Hearts' owners because we might hurt their feelings?

[CJGJ]

Correct.

 

I think redm's attacks on FF here are disgraceful. It's as if she sees FF's info as an attack on Budge when quite clearly it shows she got a good deal by ponying up and we got an even better deal because we still have a club!

Whereas I see it as fair game and perhaps some will now see no poster is infallible 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Whereas I see it as fair game and perhaps some will now see no poster is infallible

This may be a hangover from the roasting you've taken on the giant Rangers thread! Anyway, who sees a poster as "infallible"? Is the Pope moonlighting on here or something?

[i wish jj was my dad]

We have enemies amongst us

Not up to speed with today's events but this is where I am at now.

 

I'd love to be wrong but what I am seeing is a very vocal group spreading dissent on what is generally speculation, assumptions and outright lies.  Whether it is the club plugging the leaks, launching the bigots, misguided loyalty to a want-away player who claims to be a PHM or just an unhealthy obsession with CL I don't know but I'm sick of it.  By all means criticise when something is wrong but people seem desperate for us to fail suit their warped agenda.  The heady optimism and togetherness of 2014 looks like it has gone for good.  I wouldn't blame AB and CL if they decided to retire and leave us to implode.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Not up to speed with today's events but this is where I am at now.

 

I'd love to be wrong but what I am seeing is a very vocal group spreading dissent on what is generally speculation, assumptions and outright lies. Whether it is the club plugging the leaks, launching the bigots, misguided loyalty to a want-away player who claims to be a PHM or just an unhealthy obsession with CL I don't know but I'm sick of it. By all means criticise when something is wrong but people seem desperate for us to fail suit their warped agenda. The heady optimism and togetherness of 2014 looks like it has gone for good. I wouldn't blame AB and CL if they decided to retire and leave us to implode.

 

Now THIS is pant-wetting!

 

In the grand scheme of things, what gets written on here is immaterial.

[CJGJ]

This may be a hangover from the roasting you've taken on the giant Rangers thread! Anyway, who sees a poster as "infallible"? Is the Pope moonlighting on here or something?

You'll know all about roasting Geoff

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Not up to speed with today's events but this is where I am at now.

 

I'd love to be wrong but what I am seeing is a very vocal group spreading dissent on what is generally speculation, assumptions and outright lies. Whether it is the club plugging the leaks, launching the bigots, misguided loyalty to a want-away player who claims to be a PHM or just an unhealthy obsession with CL I don't know but I'm sick of it. By all means criticise when something is wrong but people seem desperate for us to fail suit their warped agenda. The heady optimism and togetherness of 2014 looks like it has gone for good. I wouldn't blame AB and CL if they decided to retire and leave us to implode.

The heady optimism in large part disappeared because we inexplicably and unnecessarily dumped a thrilling home-grown league winning team for one full of plodding mercenary keech.

[Big Slim Stylee]

Thing is though, in general FF and FA raise some good points about FOH etc (I don't mean on this thread specifically but on the board generally).

 

there is truth in that, but I long ago got tired of FA's innate ability to not so much thrash a dead horse, more utterly ruinate the poor ****ing animal.

[socrates82]

Correct.

 

I think redm's attacks on FF here are disgraceful. It's as if she sees FF's info as an attack on Budge when quite clearly it shows she got a good deal by ponying up and we got an even better deal because we still have a club!

 

It doesn't clearly show she got a good deal. The only way to prove that is to show how investing in Hearts generated better returns than investing in say real estate, stocks, a business, etc.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

You'll know all about roasting Geoff

The burn!

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

It doesn't clearly show she got a good deal. The only way to prove that is to show how investing in Hearts generated better returns than investing in say real estate, stocks, a business, etc.

She may have got a better deal elsewhere, she may not. The point being, she rightly protected her interests.

[i wish jj was my dad]

Good point.

Like you I agree with Dave's post about how tightly we are protecting sensitive info inside the club now.  I've suspected that is one of the reasons some guys on here lose their shit or make up stories or innuendo so often.  Can't handle toap boay credentials going down the toilet 

[socrates82]

The heady optimism in large part disappeared because we inexplicably and unnecessarily dumped a thrilling home-grown league winning team for one full of plodding mercenary keech.

 

Home grown? That side was a good mix of Hearts youngsters and players brought in. Alexander, Eckersley, Sow, Ozturk, Wilson, Gomis, Pallardo, Bauben, Keatings, Zeefuik... that "plodding mercenary keech" then took 3rd in their first season back, scoring lots of goals in the process and with a good defensive record, and had much better starts to the season than Rangers and Hibs when they got promoted.

 

Where are the players we dumped from that team by the way - Keatings, Wilson, Holt, McHattie, Eckersley... none of them are doing well and holding down places in Premiership teams.

 

The more I read this forum the more I'm convinced the Budge/Neilson/Levein knockers live in a fantasy world in which Hearts regularly challenge for titles, cups and the rest and never, ever finish 4th or 5th or have the odd meh season in 3.

 

You have to expect to get criticism - or at least be questioned about your stance - for throwing toys out of your pram after a bad 8 months from people who have experienced much worse times and can bring some perspective to a debate like this.

[i wish jj was my dad]

The heady optimism in large part disappeared because we inexplicably and unnecessarily dumped a thrilling home-grown league winning team for one full of plodding mercenary keech.

Who other than Callum out of that homegrown team would you want us to have retained? 

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Who other than Callum out of that homegrown team would you want us to have retained?

Just personal opinion but I would have kept Eckersley, Holt, King and Keatings. I also don't think we found a better centre back pairing than Wilson and Ozturk until right now with Berra and Souttar, despite the many players we've brought in there. I just felt we could have persevered more with a team that set a points record in the strongest ever version of that division. Not a huge deal, and not really relevant to the thread, just a passing thought.

[PTBCAL]

No one at Hearts whether owner players or fans should be above criticism or questioning.

 

However I am a little disappointed that AB actual buy out is now being looked at in what seems to be an unfavourable light. Simple question is no one else was going to pony up with both cash and business acumen when we needed it.

 

AB and FOH have been fantastic together. Really put the club on a financial and stable level. In my 40 years following this great club it's only been the last 2-3 years that I never had to worry whether the club would be around as we know it or we still be at Tynecastle. I will put up with a couple of indifferent years if it means us pushing on. And we will I have no doubt about this.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Home grown? That side was a good mix of Hearts youngsters and players brought in. Alexander, Eckersley, Sow, Ozturk, Wilson, Gomis, Pallardo, Bauben, Keatings, Zeefuik... that "plodding mercenary keech" then took 3rd in their first season back, scoring lots of goals in the process and with a good defensive record, and had much better starts to the season than Rangers and Hibs when they got promoted.

 

Where are the players we dumped from that team by the way - Keatings, Wilson, Holt, McHattie, Eckersley... none of them are doing well and holding down places in Premiership teams.

 

The more I read this forum the more I'm convinced the Budge/Neilson/Levein knockers live in a fantasy world in which Hearts regularly challenge for titles, cups and the rest and never, ever finish 4th or 5th or have the odd meh season in 3.

 

You have to expect to get criticism - or at least be questioned about your stance - for throwing toys out of your pram after a bad 8 months from people who have experienced much worse times and can bring some perspective to a debate like this.

What are you talking about? Budge and Levein knockers, toys out the pram? How is that relevant to my throwaway remark about our 2014 team? I think you're just conflating every view you see as contrary and responding to one big imaginary bogeyman

[socrates82]

She may have got a better deal elsewhere, she may not. The point being, she rightly protected her interests.

 

Of course. I wouldn't want anyone in charge of the club who didn't do that most basic thing. Point is, folk seem to be seriously suggesting Budge had money as a motivation for investing in Hearts. Football clubs are probably the worst place to put your money and expect a return, especially in Scotland with literally no chance of accessing the CL riches that attract other investors.

[Victorian]

On Kickback, a plainly inaccurate remark is easily erased by later describing it as "throwaway".

[socrates82]

What are you talking about? Budge and Levein knockers, toys out the pram? How is that relevant to my throwaway remark about our 2014 team? I think you're just conflating every view you see as contrary and responding to one big imaginary bogeyman

 

You said we dumped a home grown team. We didn't. It was a team put together by Levein and Neilson with some home grown players and a lot of people they bought in. I don't think even the most optimistic Hearts fans could have seen that team finishing 3rd in the Premiership, and none of the players we released went on to better things.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

You said we dumped a home grown team. We didn't. It was a team put together by Levein and Neilson with some home grown players and a lot of people they bought in. I don't think even the most optimistic Hearts fans could have seen that team finishing 3rd in the Premiership, and none of the players we released went on to better things.

I think that team could have finished third.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Of course. I wouldn't want anyone in charge of the club who didn't do that most basic thing. Point is, folk seem to be seriously suggesting Budge had money as a motivation for investing in Hearts. Football clubs are probably the worst place to put your money and expect a return, especially in Scotland with literally no chance of accessing the CL riches that attract other investors.

Sorry, who said that Budge had money as a motivation? I don't see anyone saying that. She will make a return financially but that doesn't include her services for free, for example. If you are inferring that, I would suggest that others are upset because FF's facts tarnish the fairy godmother image they have of her.

[Beast Boy]

We simply MUST be seen to be finding fault. Whether it's there or not. What a valuable service the nit-pickers provide for us all. We should be praising them. Many selfless, much valuable.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

On Kickback, a plainly inaccurate remark is easily erased by later describing it as "throwaway".

It's plainly inaccurate to claim, even in colourful, exaggerated language that our team of the last 12 months is plodding compared to the exciting team of 2014?

[Beast Boy]

I think that team could have finished third.

King and Keatings, aye?

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

King and Keatings, aye?

Sure. I'm confident that team could have finished third. Where do you think?

[Beast Boy]

Sure. I'm confident that team could have finished third. Where do you think?

About sixth or seventh.

[Victorian]

It's plainly inaccurate to claim, even in colourful, exaggerated language that our team of the last 12 months is plodding compared to the exciting team of 2014?

No.. I was referencing your "home grown" remark. Which, as anyone can see, is plainly inaccurate.

 

Good team? Aye. Home grown? Nut.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

No.. I was referencing your "home grown" remark. Which, as anyone can see, is plainly inaccurate.

 

Good team? Aye. Home grown? Nut.

Significant chunk was from the academy. Possibly more than at any other point in modern history bar the season immediately prior. I think it's fair to call a team with five or six academy players in it home grown. Anyway, what a pointlessly pedantic sideshow.

[mitch41]

She'll receive negative comments regardless if Levein's here or not.

 

That, is a fact.

Well i've never met anyone who has a bad word to say about the lady.

[Beast Boy]

So, if we've had Vlad-Sheep to describe his acolytes in the past. What's to be the new term for those who follow Ann Budge blindly?

 

A flock of Budgies?

 

Before we descend further into the slanging match, it'll help those with alternative views towards her, have a nice pet-name for those posters.

 

The No-Budgings?

Annpostles?

 

Partizaans?

[Victorian]

Ann-lambs vs the Flatulence of Finance.

[socrates82]

Significant chunk was from the academy. Possibly more than at any other point in modern history bar the season immediately prior. I think it's fair to call a team with five or six academy players in it home grown. Anyway, what a pointlessly pedantic sideshow.

 

The team the following year was also home grown in that case: Patterson, King, Hamilton, Nicolson, Walker, Smith, McGhee.. the point is people are - intentionally or not - frequently flat out lying on here in order to have a dig at the club.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

The team the following year was also home grown in that case: Patterson, King, Hamilton, Nicolson, Walker, Smith, McGhee.. the point is people are - intentionally or not - frequently flat out lying on here in order to have a dig at the club.

Did my original post read like I was flat out lying to have a dig at the club?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The team the following year was also home grown in that case: Patterson, King, Hamilton, Nicolson, Walker, Smith, McGhee.. the point is people are - intentionally or not - frequently flat out lying on here in order to have a dig at the club.

 

Who is having a dig at the club??

 

Deary me. This place gets worse.

[socrates82]

It's plainly inaccurate to claim, even in colourful, exaggerated language that our team of the last 12 months is plodding compared to the exciting team of 2014?

 

You don't think maybe the level of opposition had something to do with how we played in 2014. It's a big leap from that to the Premiership even with his and Rangers having been down there with us.

 

I've never seen us score so many long range crackers in one season for example. Could that have been something to do with the poorer goalies at that level?

[Victorian]

It's a moot point. The remark was throwaway.

[socrates82]

Did my original post read like I was flat out lying to have a dig at the club?

 

I have no idea why you said it. The inference in a thread attacking Budge was that we made a bad decision that year to change the team up. Why else bring it up? It just adds to the catalogue of criticism being thrown the club's way for no good reason. And in any case it was wrong!

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Some of this intensive policing of thoughts and posts is insane. Some of you could really do with a break from all of this.

[socrates82]

Some of this intensive policing of thoughts and posts is insane. Some of you could really do with a break from all of this.

 

Or maybe you shouldn't post shite and expect not to be challenged on it?

[i wish jj was my dad]

Just personal opinion but I would have kept Eckersley, Holt, King and Keatings. I also don't think we found a better centre back pairing than Wilson and Ozturk until right now with Berra and Souttar, despite the many players we've brought in there. I just felt we could have persevered more with a team that set a points record in the strongest ever version of that division. Not a huge deal, and not really relevant to the thread, just a passing thought.

I would have liked to have kept Holt but he didn't want to accept the prospect of fighting for his place.  I'm not convinced he would be a starter now.  King couldn't get a game for a team that got relegated so I'm not surprised he was allowed to leave.  Keatings, I liked but it's telling that he didn't fancy fighting for his place and is still plying his trade in the second tier. I liked Eckersley too but I don't think he's put on a pair of boots since he left.  Our central defenders were our weak link in the championship.  I'd liked to have seen Ozturk with Berra but I'm much happier with what we have now. 

 

Do you still feel that your smiley face about dismantling our home grown team was a good idea?

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Or maybe you shouldn't post shite and expect not to be challenged on it?

Okay. Our team of 2014 - tgrilling. Our team of the last ten months - plodding mercenary keech. Put it to a poll and see how much shite I'm talking.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Or maybe you shouldn't post shite and expect not to be challenged on it?

Shite like posting that people are saying Budge is in this for the money?

[i wish jj was my dad]

It's plainly inaccurate to claim, even in colourful, exaggerated language that our team of the last 12 months is plodding compared to the exciting team of 2014?

I loved the 2014 team and think we got our recruitment strategy wrong after we got promoted but look at our spine now compared to what it was then.  Any half decent coach should be able to build a bloody good side around that.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

I would have liked to have kept Holt but he didn't want to accept the prospect of fighting for his place. I'm not convinced he would be a starter now. King couldn't get a game for a team that got relegated so I'm not surprised he was allowed to leave. Keatings, I liked but it's telling that he didn't fancy fighting for his place and is still plying his trade in the second tier. I liked Eckersley too but I don't think he's put on a pair of boots since he left. Our central defenders were our weak link in the championship. I'd liked to have seen Ozturk with Berra but I'm much happier with what we have now.

 

Do you still feel that your smiley face about dismantling our home grown team was a good idea?

Yeah, good analysis. I still maintain though the replacements since haven't added much and also have cost more money. Still can't complain too much at what you've said though. There's not much in it.

[Victorian]

At least we are meandering back towards subject matter on which criticism of the club is much more credible.

[socrates82]

Shite like posting that people are saying Budge is in this for the money?

What are the saying then? What's the point of this thread?